stream changes in LU#19

[Fennir]

<b>Ranger changes:</b>- Stream of Arrows will now start working after the casting of the spell takes place and will update correctly on the last tick.- Stream of Arrows now has a small power cost with each arrow shot. Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range.Well, I like the first line, as it means there probably won't be that 2-3 second lag before it starts working.The second line, not so much... but I can't say I didn't see it coming. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[brandi7920]

<div></div><p>Well, it's semi-sucky, lol. I haven't run out of power in months. Can't say it's not fair, though.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I wonder about the disruption and minimum range...if a mob comes at me...does that mean Stream will turn off when the mob hits me and disrupts my arrow flinging...?</p><p>Bah, want to go home and go griffin diving and test out changes to Steam, etc. /pout</p><p>Have fun guys!</p><p> </p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>If it works like it sounds like I won't mind the change much.  Having the skill fire instantly after casting instead of having that 2-3 sec down time will keep the mob from running in your face.  If there ends up still being a time gap between casting and the firing sequence starting then this will be a very bad change.  Guess I'll find out tonight when I get home from work.</p><p> </p><p>I find the change to the imbued rings slightly annoying.  I like that you don't have to keep casting the effect but I don't like that they will stack.  What is the point of the predator only Earthen Band with 22 Str when you can just wear two imbued Str rings that are 32 Str each.</p>

[Fennir]

Agreed about the rings, honestly.This is what screws up the item progression in the first place.  They release an expansion, then fix legendary crafted.  Then they fix fabled loot.  Then they fix legendary crafted again.  Then they "fix" legendary crafted again.Sucks on a raid when a nice no trade drops but it ends up selling to a vendor because crafted is better and no one wants to waste the DKP.<div></div>

[KnightOfTheWo]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:<b>Ranger changes:</b>- Shots can be interrupted and have a minimum range.<div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>Like Fennir, I guess I could see this one coming. I'll try to test this one out also...not sure how it will work but my question is the same as a previous poster: will Stream "shut down" when the mob reaches you, forcing you into melee? My problem with this would be that you really wouldn't be doing much more damage than you would by leading off with Triple Fire Master 2. For groups, I suppose it wouldn't matter as much, but using Stream like this while soloing would be pointless.Anyway, after testing I'll edit this post with my results. <span>:smileyhappy:</span>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>I absolutly agree and see this as a huge nurf to our solo skills.  If the "too close" message starts appearing with stream of arrows.   This is also the first time I have seen this change.  Does anyone know if it was on test or just thown in at the last minute?

[EverMan]

<div></div>Im fine with the change, I saw it coming but I really think the hate % on this ability needs to be dropped,  what's the point of having a ability that roots, stun, and pacify you and you get maybe 1 or 2 shots off before you get agro in a normal group.

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>And when you get agro you have to mannually shut the skill off and start your melee attacks.

[Fennir]

I really don't mind the extra hate gain.  Something as powerful as stream needs a few downsides.  To be honest, I always wondered why it didn't have a small recurring power cost like other class-defining spells.  It's also quite helpful if you need to save someone's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in a group (like a healer or a mage), and this change will hopefully make that even easier (assuming it eliminates the start-lag).Anyways, the hate gain usually isn't an issue if you're in a group with a paladin or a troub.  I have been able to let Stream run its full duration in many raids and groups as long as I have someone controlling my agro.  If I don't, I usually just don't use the skill, or turn it off after 10-15 secs.<div></div>

[brandi7920]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><p>I find the change to the imbued rings slightly annoying.  I like that you don't have to keep casting the effect but I don't like that they will stack.  What is the point of the predator only Earthen Band with 22 Str when you can just wear two imbued Str rings that are 32 Str each.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I had this exact same thought. I've got the Earthen Band and it's pretty - but I have an extra vanadium ring of str on the broker - might have to take it off the market and use it.</p><p>I'm guessing since rings now stack I'll be getting a few extra orders...</p>

[Siphar]

<div></div><p>i got the earthen band last night too. this sucks that crafted gear is now superior to fabled raid loot.</p><p>Also it mentioned the prismatic 2 duel wield was changed to add str and agi. What are the new stats anyone know?</p>

[klepp]

<div></div><p>yep, kiss our soloing ability goodbye... well atleast back to kiting it goes =/    The power cost addition, fine.. althougn not having one meant you were ok if you went oop on a raid, not htat it happens often...</p><p>but having a minimum range?  cmon now... with the extra hate the spell will be almost useless in a normal group and forget using it soloing now, might as well slap the mob w/ a triple and a debilitate before it gets to ya.    </p>

[klepp]

<div>HUGE NERF</div><div> </div><div>seriously, maybe they ought to consider putting spells and combat arts in the way they intend for them to be, instead of changing them down the line and dissapointing a bunch of people?  Sounds like common sense to me...   To be honest, i was surprised the first time i used it and seen that i didnt get the "too close" message.  </div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>but having a minimum range?  cmon now...</p><hr></blockquote>Have you ever looked at the spell on live?    It says "Minimum Range: 5m"You never thought it was odd when they patched in a minimum range but it still worked after a mob ran to you?  cmon now...</span></div>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div><p>but having a minimum range?  cmon now...</p><hr></blockquote>Have you ever looked at the spell on live?    It says "Minimum Range: 5m"You never thought it was odd when they patched in a minimum range but it still worked after a mob ran to you?  cmon now...</span></div><hr></blockquote>Nope.  Never noticed that.  Was too busy soloing blue ^^^ using Trap and stream.  :smileytongue:

[Vimy]

Meh.   Guess I was expecting it... but it was just so much fun!<div></div>

[Al]

<div>Stream was overpowered anyways, you shouldnt be able to continue ranging something that is 1 foot in front of you while being hit and not being interrupted, not to mention the previous no power requirements it had. Assassins get apply poison which we cant use at all solo, now you got one too.</div>

[Hyyd]

<div></div>sorry i haven't read the patch notes been cleaning up my pc, what exactly have done with imbued rings?the effect on 2 str ring are stacking?

[Noir_4]

i've never had a problem with SoA and hate gain. i don't even use SoA in group until a mob's health is in the red. dps classes must learn how to manage aggro, and if you have a skill that generates a lot of aggro, you've got to wisely choose when to use it.<div></div>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Alza wrote:<div>Stream was overpowered anyways, you shouldnt be able to continue ranging something that is 1 foot in front of you while being hit and not being interrupted, not to mention the previous no power requirements it had. Assassins get apply poison which we cant use at all solo, now you got one too.</div><hr></blockquote>Go troll on the Brawler boards plzzzzzz.:smileymad:

[Hyyd]

<div></div>nevermind that question just read the notes, definatly [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty is some ways

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>Yeah.  I usually keep an imbued str ring on me and use it for the buff then switch back to my regular ring for the stat bonus.  What's the point of even having imbued rings?  Might as well just add a +STR stat to them.

[Cael]

<div>Fennir, I could have sworn mine said a mazimum of 40m, not a min of 5m</div>

[Fennir]

It has had both ranges on the skill for a few updates now.  Up until now, it only applied when you first attacked with it<div></div>

[Beldin_]

<div></div>Totally nerfed and useless for soloing at the moment  :smileysad: At the moment it still has the 2-3 second delay so if you pull with stream you get maybe one shoot out and thats it ... also the duration is only 30 seconds now ... so its not much more then a spell you can use in groups when no other spell is up :smileysad:

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>. . . . . ummmm  ya</p><p> </p><p>The duration has always been 30 seconds . . . .</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Beldin_]

<div></div>Ups .. really ? Never noticed that then and often had the feeling that fights last longer against some Heroics.. lol

[ReynardTheFox]

I feel that the changes to SoA are over the top. I agree with a power cost for each arrow, hell even add a signifcant power cost for starting it in the first place but to render it useless as a soloing device is just making the more solo Ranger less enjoyable.What I want to know is where is the compensation for the nerf? When soloing we will be forced to use more melee skills or kite. SOE hate kiters and our melee skills are not enough to pose any sort of threat up close.Just revert SoA to its pre-19 state.With DDO coming out, the new WoW expansion and Vanguard on the horizon, this seems a poor time for SOE to [Removed for Content] off a large chunk of their customer base.<div></div>

[QUACKMASTER]

<div></div>The changes are not that bad, in fact if you take away the power cost (i think it used 1/4 of one bar of power) there really isnt much difference.  So, dont sweat it folks =P

[Cael]

<div></div><p>I didnt really notice any difference. It didnt seem phantasm was landing as often...maybe I was imagining it though.</p><p>One thing I did notice though, I used more poison in 4 hours than i used to in 2 days. I had to apply adestes i think 4 times, maybe more, and phantasm....yeah, Im short 2 vials now and down half way on a third. Dont know if you guys noticed...but WOW</p><p>And the proc off priz, I didnt think it would phase me that much, but it has a pretty big effect in damage. They wanted to nerf us....well in that way, it worked.</p>

[chanaho]

  I had no problems with stream last night. I was taking on many NPC'sright in my face with no problems.  What I did notice though is if i got in a situation where I wanted to use itand needed to cheapshot/evade and get some distance away before firing it off..that if they closed that distance to quick while its targetting them thenI would be mezzed/rooted etc as if it went off but no arrows were beinglaunched. Only had this happen maybe twice though.On the poison usage. I also went thru more than I should have on a normal nightbut wasnt there something listed in the forums that said the proc rate will no longerbe 200 per application but stacking vials would be allowed?<div></div>

[Cael]

<div>The procs are still 200, and it is listed on the spell effects window how many are there.</div><div> </div><div>Maybe we've been living in a dream world where poisons lasted waaaaaay longer than they were supposed to.</div><div> </div><div>The thing about the poisons changing doesnt come til the expansion. The vials will only be one charge, and they will stack BUT, thats for another thread. This is about strream lol.</div><div> </div><div>Adeste: 200</div><div>Shissar: 80</div><div>Phantasm: 30</div><div> </div><div>And you can watch them go down. Hit trip shot and my adeste went down by 3. Sharp shot went down by 2. So, my bet is its now working like it was always supposed to, and we have to re-get used to it :smileyindifferent:</div>

[Quillian Feetfa]

I was using SoA while Mentored in Runny Eye last night and it was working fine.  I'd pull aggro sometimes, but the only big change I noticed was that the animation for it was broken.  I just stood there and watch the procs tick off, but didn't see myself fire a single arrow!  Point Blank Range was still seeing damage procs.  I need to go back through my log file though.  I'm wondering if they were just my poison procs going off, but it did look just like it used to.  I'll look into it more.

[Cael]

<div></div>I noticed the same thing. If there was an animation, it was just me sticking my hand out, my left hand with the bow down by my right. But it didnt happen all the time. Mostly there was nothing

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div><blockquote><hr>Quillian Feetfast wrote:I was using SoA while Mentored in Runny Eye last night and it was working fine.  I'd pull aggro sometimes, but the only big change I noticed was that the animation for it was broken.  I just stood there and watch the procs tick off, but didn't see myself fire a single arrow!  Point Blank Range was still seeing damage procs.  I need to go back through my log file though.  I'm wondering if they were just my poison procs going off, but it did look just like it used to.  I'll look into it more.<hr></blockquote>Indeed.  Did a couple of solo fights before grouping with some guildies.  Only difference solo is that there is no animation for stream.  Stream kept on firing when the mob was in melee range.   I knew it was going off becaus eI could see the mobs health ticking down real quick.  I then checked my log and confirmed that stream still works within melee range. </div>

[Marcuzs]

<div></div>While this change does hurt I don't think it will have a huge impact, though luck will have a bigger factor in if the named dies or not. Most named never get that close to me if Visions procs often enough. So if we're lucky it will die before it gets to us, if we're not it gets too close and likely kills us before we can mellee it down (makes thorny trap a little more important as well). So overall it really just makes it more dangerous but doable.

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div>/agree</div><div> </div><div>I had already began setting up a trap about 10 M away from me and using stream to pull the mob then it would hit the trap and be roted til the next stream shot.  Worked well enough without phantasmic visions on non-named ^^^'s.  :smileysad:</div>

[Fennir]

As of yesterday, Stream hadn't been changed on Live at all.  We'll see if they got to it today when the servers come up.<div></div>

[Fennir]

Just logged in:13 power to cast, 13 every shot.  Works out to 273 power total for a full stream.  Haven't tested the min-range yet but I assume it's there.<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Just logged in:13 power to cast, 13 every shot.  Works out to 273 power total for a full stream.  Haven't tested the min-range yet but I assume it's there.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Did they fix the graphic?

[Fennir]

Ok, from real testing:They fixed the graphic. You now get the initial blue particle effect, and a bow attack animation for every shot.  It also now shows a fast casting bar for each arrow.It no longer fires arrows when a mob runs to you.The huge start delay is GONE.  There is now a 1.5 second delay from cast to first bow shot, if I'm timing it right.  Testing by pulling a Maj'Dul citizen with it either killed it before it got to me or left it with a sliver, using Adeste's, Master I archers frenzy and Adept III Stream at 302 STR.<div></div>

[Cael]

<div></div><div>Does it break when they get close?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>As in, do we get unrooted</div><p>Message Edited by Caelum on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:43 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

No, you have to do it manually.<div></div>

[xandez]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>QUACKMASTER wrote:<div></div>The changes are not that bad, in fact if you take away the power cost (i think it used 1/4 of one bar of power) there really isnt much difference.  So, dont sweat it folks =P<hr></blockquote><p>not that bad eh?</p><p>still has that annoying delay. Tried it against a GREY solo mob. It procced ONCE before the mob was too close, talk about USELESS here?</p><p>so that is not too bad?</p><p>Of course the change is not too bad when grouping, but it TOTALLY renders that skill USELESS in solo play.(are other classes "extra" skills/spells useless in solo??)</p><p>++Xan</p><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:17 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

Yes, there are plenty of other ancient teaching spells that are useless when solo:Defilers get a special cure (waow)Monks get a group feign deathFury's get a mit buff/damage shield that stuns them (any of u use spells that stun you for the duration when u solo?)Conjurors get Call of the Hero which is likely impossible to cast on yourselfand that's just the first 4 I could think of off the top of my head.This whining is getting really old.<div></div>

[melf]

<div></div><div></div><div>Personally, I still find Stream of Arrows a very useful Combat Art for solo play.  If I drag a mob into Thorny Trap then pop Stream of Arrows, I can get off <u>at least</u> three shots before the mob gets to me. </div><div> </div><div>Sure SoA may seem incredibly nerfed <em>comparatively</em>, but it's still an effective complement to the Ranger's arsenal. </div><div> </div><div>Most Rangers in their 50s should already be accustomed to the endless waltz that is Ranger combat and shouldn't have any problems returning to it after the lazy, fun-filled days of standing still and using SoA on a mob that's in your face :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by melfro on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:54 AM</span></p>

[lamad]

<div></div><p>Let my try and sum up what i have noticed so far.....</p><p>When stream which increases aggro is on and the mob aggros, i no longer continue to do dmg when the mob gets to close.  THIS SUX considering i am rooted and stifled.</p><p>All the arrows are level one so i went from auto attack hit between 700 - 1000 to now hitting for 30- 70</p><p>Finally, i no longer proc off my weapons.</p><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!!  Why wouldnt SOE just decrease the dmg some spells do rather than make a key spell suck and more dangerous for us to use, make arrows that COST US A TON useless in auto attack, and remove a heavy portion of some of our procs!!!  Again i dont mind a decrease in dps, just dont make the class suck to play, for those who have been used to the way it was!</p><p>PS These remarks come after getting OWNED in a group, by mobs i could once solo!!!!</p>

[lamad]

<div></div>Also i may be a newbie in regards to posting, but i have played a ranger between EQ1 and EQ2 now for 5 years,  PLEASE fix these mistakes, i cant imagine this was intended, but if it was intended and this is the future of this scout class i hear another mmorpg calling my name!!!

[KnightOfTheWo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>melfro wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Personally, I still find Stream of Arrows a very useful Combat Art for solo play.  If I drag a mob into Thorny Trap then pop Stream of Arrows, I can get off <u>at least</u> three shots before the mob gets to me. </div><div> </div><div>Sure SoA may seem incredibly nerfed <em>comparatively</em>, but it's still an effective complement to the Ranger's arsenal. </div><div> </div><div><b>Most Rangers in their 50s should already be accustomed to the endless waltz that is Ranger combat and shouldn't have any problems returning to it after the lazy, fun-filled days of standing still and using SoA on a mob that's in your face</b> :smileyhappy:</div><p>Message Edited by melfro on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:54 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I experienced that fun for about 2 weeks with SoA. I hardly knew ya.Having said that, without echoing the above poster, Cat and Kaeros too much...if you've been a Ranger since the beginning, as some of us have, our class is still fun to play, and so much better than pre-Live Update #13. Please, for those of you who are losing their tempers and posting before thinking...stop. One of the things we enjoy as a class is that we can almost always have fun and STILL do outstanding DPS. I have my bow. For me, that is enough.Please don't try to deconstruct this post. Just take it for what it is. If you disagree, fine. But at least make your post in a reasoned fashion, i.e. try to use logic. I'm not attacking anyone, but as Cat observed elsewhere...if you can't handle this, you don't really want to be playing a Ranger. Roll with it, or find something else to do, or post CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, or go tradeskilling, or SOMETHING but stop decrying SOE as the bringers of doom.I can still solo without SoA being the way it was. We can still be Rangers. Stop making this into an "us vs. them" war and enjoy the class. Just my opinion, for it's 2 coppers' worth.</span></div>

[Gnome mercy]

<div></div><p>I got a question</p><p>Say I'm raiding darathor and he ae's does this mean my stream of arrows will disrupt?</p>

[xandez]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Fennir wrote:and that's just the first 4 I could think of off the top of my head.<font color="#ff9900">Loller, well i guess the SoA is not bad afterall <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />hahaha....</font>This whining is getting really old.</p><p><font color="#ff9900">What whining, havent seen any yet? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></p><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff9900">++Xan</font>

[nimbus2kgold]

<div>I am very very sad that stream doesnt work at point blank ranger anymore, I tested it alot last night.  It was the ONE ranged skill we had that did.  << frown >> i dont like this change.  I dont care if it costs power.  I never have power issues as it is.  But the minimum range thing is all wrong.</div><div> </div><div>More than anything though, I really feel like Ive been teased.  Dont give me this great spell, then take it away.  Its like dangling a nice juicy steak in front of a tiger, letting him have a little nibble, then wrenching it away.... and then wondering why the tiger is angry.</div><div> </div><div>I LOVE the ranger class. Will this nerf me? No.  Will I quit and throw a fit? No.  I will adapt and overcome.  But I can still wish sream was back to normal, and voice my opinion and hope the dev's listen. </div>

[Jayad]

<div></div><p>I'm very unhappy with this change.  The power cost is fair, but the range requirement for continuing the SoA spells is not balanced by the root and stifle of the spell.  If SoA is just another range attack which recasts, why are we rooted?  We should just be stifled.  At the moment, if we draw aggro at all, then the spell is useless because even if the tank recovers aggro (which happens a lot with a good tank) we are then too close to the mob to continue using it.  If I draw aggro with other arts, I can use aggro reducers or cheap shot to get away and cast another. </p><p>This change does not reduce Ranger dps (SoA has always been lower dps than other CAs), so it is not accomplishing anything on that front. </p><p>The way it is designed now, I'd rather have a huge CA (like say 10 arrows at once like a super triple shot) than Storm.  Storm is redundant the way it is now, and is in fact worse because you have to toggle it.</p><p>SOE proving once again that if you like anything about your class, they are sure to "fix" it.</p>

[Anas]

<div></div><p>as much as ia hate admitting it and will miss those days of Trap and Stream to death :S ,</p><p>it makes sense to have it not work at point blank , but coooome on ... STILL rooted, stifled and Toggle ??????? ... are the designers that idiotic or just sadistic and playing with us??</p><p>now SoA is just one of those lame CA's that you won't bother putting on your hotbar <_<</p><p> </p><p>dissappointed 57th Ranger</p>

[Cael]

<div></div><p>What I noticed yesterday was the min range is further away than all other ranged ca's. Every icon in my range hotbar is "in range" color.....except Stream, its redded out. Which means if all our other CA's are 5 min also (what is the min range for bow attacks anyway?) that would put stream more along the lines of 7-10m (guessing as whats a meter in EQ lol)</p>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Anashi wrote:<div></div><p>now SoA is just one of those lame CA's that you won't bother putting on your hotbar <_<</p><hr></blockquote>ahahahahahahahahahahaha ok bro you do that <span>:smileyhappy:</span></span></div>

[Kulidan]

Ive noticed this also.  Ill be firing off triple arrow and then go to hit stream and says im to close.  Whats the deal?  5 meters shouldnt be that far away, and if im far enough away to fire off other range attacks there is no reason I shouldnt be able to use stream.  I have a feeling this is a bug or a mistake in the description of the spell.<div></div>