Issues and Solution from the Ranger Community

[EverMan]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000"><u>Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.</u></font></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#6 When using Stealth to complete a HO, it will bug the ability and can not use stealth again until you relog.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#7 Focus Fire line of spells are completely useless cause of the 10 sec duration and 5 min recast.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Some Solution to the problems:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Make a range CA for this ability or give us a proc buff like fighter have.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 Fix bug.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#6 Fix bug</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#7 Make the effect weaker and make it last longer.</font></span></p><p><u><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000">AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.</font></u></p></div><p><span class="time_text">Edited for other problem that have been brough up.</span></p><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:12 PM</span></p>

[Bellessimo]

<div></div><p> Also I think we need a ranged  stun like brig's </p><p>and  offer more to a group besides  just DPS  dont get me wrong i love  m DPS  but  lets offer something   the only  thig we do is debuff  fire and  mitigation ,piercing  i think it is</p><p> </p><p>And  more T6 fabled loot as you had already  stated</p>

[Daghammerskold]

Crafted arrowsLast time I made one -- like 10 updates and many toons ago -- they took too many combines to be worth the trouble.Recently I noticed that there are rare metals specifically for arrows.Does arrow crafting now require fewer combines or is there a plan to change that with the next update (as with inks)?/hope<div></div>

[jjlo69]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><p><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000"><u>Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.</u></font></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Some Solution to the problems:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Make a range CA for this ability</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 Fix bug.</font></span></p><p><u><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000">AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.</font></u></p></div><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>              1. def agree with this one</p><p>                </p>

[jjlo69]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><p><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000"><u>Before I even begin I want to make it clear this is for the ranger community to give the problems with our class to the dev. If you are not a ranger, or never played a ranger please refrain from posting this is not a debate but if you are a ranger an have found a problem or bug I missed please post and I will edit this.</u></font></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Some Solution to the problems:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 Some quick fixes would be add a longbow to the peacock quest or add a proc to the Darkfury Longbow.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Make a range CA for this ability</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 There already icon on the ranged CA for Ho’s but they are not used for some reason. Just add those ca to be able to be used to trigger the ho.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 Add some Str and Int to the loot.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 Fix bug.</font></span></p><p><u><font size="5" face="Times New Roman" color="#ff0000">AGAIN THIS IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. PLESE DO NOT FLAME, TROLL, OR BAIT.</font></u></p></div><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>1, 3-5. Def agree with those.</p><p>2. Would rather see the master strike as a proc simalar to the fighter like for scouts in general.</p><p>sry for the double post</p><p>Loomingelephant</p><p>60 ogre ranger</p><p>iconoclast</p><p>permafrost</p><p>Message Edited by jjlo69 on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:38 AM</span></p>

[Vimy]

Stealth skill is still bug'd when using it to complete a HO.STILL!<div></div>

[King Leor]

<div>Excellent post, could not agree more. Perhaps if a peacock bow was added to game I would actually do the quests. And would LOVE to wear the bard only gear from Al'afaz  *drools*. I think not only us but everyone can agree there is waaaaay too much priest gear in ratio to scout. 80% of legendary chain gear is WIS stat with ministration. PLEASE FIX.</div><div> </div><div>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</div>

[Jeris Nefz]

<div></div><div>We do have a ranged stun.  It comes in the form of a poison.  Use your poison (touch of the beholder, phantasmic visions) and you will stun mobs at range.  I don't think I want any "group buffs" because we would have to give up something in order to get those buffs.  Personally I would prefer to bring crazy dps to a group/raid and let everyone else worry about what buffs are on. If they added buffs to us, we would have even more people screaming that we get nerfed.  I really don't want any additional attention brought to rangers.  We are fine where we are at.  Let the others bring the buffs.  Let us bring the pain.</div><div> </div><div>We do need a high end proccing bow. </div><div> </div><div>Path of the ranger doesn't give a bow?  Come on SOE, that is like giving a mage a short sword and telling them, "Have fun!"  Sure they COULD use it, but does it define the class?  Does it make sense?  Will they use it effectively?  No to all accounts.  Nothing makes us feel more like a ranger than our bow.  Please give it to us.  New rangers and high end rangers need bows to help define their class and learn to use them effectively. </div><p>Message Edited by Jeris Nefzen on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:50 PM</span></p>

[Deml]

<div></div>I was thinking about this list last night.  While I agree with all of it, and told Goern that in channel the night he put it together, I'm not sure #5 needs to be there.  I say that ONLY because of the upcoming changes and removal of class/archtype's and people starting as the subclass they want right away.  You will be starting on the Isle with a bow as a Ranger, from what I understand.  They also said they were changing the quest rewards on the archtype and subclass quests.  If none of this applies after the change and the quest still offers a bow then I totally agree it should be #5 on the list and needs to be fixed.

[Vedur]

we're dps...plain and simple. if we're to get utility, we only have one thing to give up to balance out(without changes to other classes), our dps. no thanks<div></div>

[Jiinx]

On HOs, I absolutely agree that it is impractical for the Ranger to participate, and this needs to be addressed.I have an alternate solution.  The HOs by definition must use icons that can be answered by any type of Scout.  If the HOs themselves are changed to include the bow icon lines, I think we're just moving the problem and making it impractical for other Scouts to advance those.  Further, I don't know of anything that the spell icons (mask, dagger, bow, and so forth) are used for other than advancing HOs.So, just get rid of the bow icon.  Reclassify the "bow" CAs with icons currently on the HO.  After all, the hidden shot line is a stealth attack, triple shot line is damage (dagger?),  backshot line is from-behind damage.  There is no reason I can see to assign a "bow" to any of these.  Align the icons on bow CAs with the types assigned to hand-to-hand CAs, and all Scouts can be the Master of the Wheel again.<div></div>

[Lexan]

<div>Well i think if there going to take away our procs from melee weapons and procs possibly from the sheilds and armor items we have thats all fine. </div><div> </div><div>1.  Put our offencive stance back up to the damage it was originaly at.  Basically they lowered our offencive stance proc becuase we were overpowered compaired to some of the other classes.  The fact is they had it right in the first place they just didnt realize that we were procing our melee weapons so id ask that the damage be returned back to the original ca.</div><div> </div><div>2.  On our self buff could we have it changed from agi to str/int seeing as how agi seems to be basically for defencive use's only and we have an agi buff on our defencive stance.</div><div> </div><div>3.  I use focus fire but agree a slightly longer timer would be nice.</div><div> </div><div>4.  Equipment is just bad for scouts of any type....</div><div> </div><div>5.  I'd like to see an increase in ca damage to make up for the soon to be lost procs. </div><div> </div><div>6.  Still have allot of concerns on what the future holds as far as poisons.  How much dmg will they do?  Will they and were they ment to proc from ranged attacks?</div><div> </div><div>7.  Maybe instead of having 2 movement speed slows make one a dps slow.</div><div> </div><div>All in all im very happy with my ranged now.  I enjoy playing eq2 very much as a ranger.  I am however worried about the incoming changes and dont look forward to them for any of us.  Many have stated this to be "not a big deal".  I have worked hours apon hours apon days apon weeks to equip my ranger for exactly what i do day in and day out for my guild and for the raid party im in.  I am one of the people that subscribe to the reason weapons proc is that its a magical item and when it says outgoing dmg it means outgoing dmg.  Why would a sheild proc and a weapon not?  In all truth if you have a bow out your not holding a sheild either. </div>

[TwistedFaith]

Totally disagree with your first point.I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.As for the other points I agree with the HO's and that arrow quality should make a difference to damage for CAs.

[EverMan]

<div></div><div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>valleyboy1 wrote:</p><p>I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>OK this is the type of post I do no want on this thread, that statement is going made some people mad and there going to be 20 post of nothing but arguing about this one post then.  Just cause u don't raid doesn't means other don't. Please keep that in mind.</div>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>valleyboy1 wrote:</p><p>I'm so fed up of seeing developers spending their time [Removed for Content] around with raid zones, raid drops that only 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the population ever get to see.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>OK this is the type of post I do no want on this thread, that statement is going made some people mad and there going to be 20 post of nothing but arguing about this one post then.  Just cause u don't raid doesn't means other don't. Please keep that in mind.</div><hr></blockquote>I agree, but my point was before you suggest adding fabled bows lets think about the 99.9% of other rangers and add quests for other bows.

[EverMan]

<div></div><p>Ok that what this thread is for ideas, this is what i was thinking. We have Pristine Ironwood Longbow. That a legendary Bow and the best bow there is as of right now for our class. So a treasured bow is never going be better than a legendary bow. So we have to shoot for another legendary bow such as Peacock Quest or even a  fabled bow but  since all the data is in the system from the other weapons of the quest proc and stats, peacock to me seems like the easiest thing to put in of as right now or add a proc to the already existing darkfury bow.  SoE would not put another quest in this late of the expansion.</p>

[Lexan]

<div><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><p>Ok that what this thread is for ideas, this is what i was thinking. We have Pristine Ironwood Longbow. That a legendary Bow and the best bow there is as of right now for our class. So a treasured bow is never going be better than a legendary bow. So we have to shoot for another legendary bow such as Peacock Quest or even a  fabled bow but  since all the data is in the system from the other weapons of the quest proc and stats, peacock to me seems like the easiest thing to put in of as right now or add a proc to the already existing darkfury bow.  SoE would not put another quest in this late of the expansion.</p><hr></blockquote>Keep in mind there are 6 classes that can use bows not just rangers.</div>

[Lexan]

<div>I think you better hope that when they say that our icons are a sign of whats to come in the new expansion that were going to get 1. a green cape and then 2. a bow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I really look forward to the incoming expansion because for me t6 was a flop.  I really hope that t7 is all what there makeing it to be and all what im hopeing it to be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Lexani- wrote:<div>I think you better hope that when they say that our icons are a sign of whats to come in the new expansion that were going to get 1. a green cape and then 2. a bow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I really look forward to the incoming expansion because for me t6 was a flop.  I really hope that t7 is all what there makeing it to be and all what im hopeing it to be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>T6 imho is just way too small, I loved the changes made to the ranger class in LU13 but the expansion just basically sucked.I never played EQ1 but after talking to some guildies about the expansions in that, I was expecting huge zones with tons of content. What we go was just tiny.As for ranger improvements:1. Gimme a cloak with a hood2. Gimme a cloak with a hood3. Gimme a cloak with a hoodothers:Make arrow quality mean somethingAdd more arrow variations (exploding tipped arrows?)Possible non game breaking AA'sImproved tracking (heroic/solo seperation)Point blank range (on a timer of course)

[ChaosUndivided]

<div>Hopefully they actually remember to Add T7 Arrow Merchants and give us a T7 Summon, Unlike T6 where we got to use Grey Arrows:smileysad:</div><div> </div><div>I hope they have new bow graphics too, the one in my icon is nice <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[arkkon]

<div>My t3 fabled short bow is worse than my t3 legendary short bow. /cry</div>

[arkkon]

<div></div><p> </p><p></p><hr>Lexani -<p>On our self buff could we have it changed from agi to str/int seeing as how agi seems to be basically for defencive use's only and we have an agi buff on our defencive stance.</p><hr> 38% haste could be changed as well.

[Hexus]

<div>1. I agree completely, there needs to be some quest reward bows that are better than the crafted, I understand that the Crafters need Lovin' too, but the Peacock Quests and some other access quests that I can think of provide enough of a diversion to keep most gamers that aren't going to raid with a huge guild from doing them at all, put in a bow reward, more people will do the quests weither they raid the zones or not....</div><div> </div><div>2. Kind of a moot point, 2/3 of the ones we have now are, and who wants to give up thorny trap? Unless you are referring to the ones given every few levels, I.E. the ones you can get a master 2 of... and I think there's a choice of an RA in every one of them...</div><div> </div><div>3.  HO system as a Whole needs to be revamped, it was never upgraded for T6, and there's never been a Bow HO that I know of anywhere, I agree that we're never in there to complete or "FLIP" an HO, but that's what Assassins, Swashbucklers, and that other class is for....</div><div> </div><div>4.  I agree, PPR shows some promise with the Moss Covered Earring and the like, but that's just in the Top-End raid zones, would like a little more "spreading of the wealth."</div><div> </div><div>5.  I Agree.</div><div> </div><div>6.  Blech, Everbeta strikes again..</div><div> </div><div>7.  Could be more useful, but I'm not going to complain due to the usefulness of Stream and Sniper and Thorny, hey, give me 3 excellent abilities and 1 so-so-craptacular one, I'll take that trade any day.</div><div> </div><div>8.  There was no 8, just wanted to say excellent post, excellent discussion.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Hexus Lupis</div><div>60 Ranger - Valor - Kithicor Server</div><div> </div>

[draconetti]

just a quick couple of things...not everyone uses longbows (shortbow ranger since... always) mainly because i preferred the stats on them, if t7 continues as t6 with same stats i'll prob make the switch. so while we definately need more fabled bows with procs (esp t6) would be nice to see long and short bows if only for the sake of mixing things up a little <span>:smileywink:</span>although at the moment poisons are classed as spells, i think it was mentioned in another thread that this seems a little odd <span>:smileyindifferent:</span> which it does, so i wouldn't be surprised if this was changed to fixed damage at some point seeing as soe are trying to get realism in the game. as it stands i prefer str/agi on my armour, and with the stats of pearl i think thats the easy option for those that want int boost, without removing what are technically our "main stats" from armour for those that haven't capped stats yet.a fair solution may be to remove the class only tags on a lot of the fabled from t6, making some of the tasty bard from Court of Al'Afaz available to scout wanting those stats for example... i for one don't like the dictation of what stats a ranger needs, as we've seen time and again theres many ways to build a ranger <span>:smileytongue:</span>stealth HO bug has been around forever, and i think will continue to haunt us untill everything in the game is fixed, then soe might find time to deal with it <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Te]

<div>I agree with the OP all the way but would like to add one more suggestion.</div><div> </div><div>Pls extend the range on elude line of CA's.</div><div> </div><div>All else OP has taken up needs to be adressed also.</div>

[Hexus]

<div></div><p>Another thing, while we're posting bugs and the like, why is it that Amazing shot and that line of arrow CA's don't really have the extended range listed in the spell description?  It has the same range as all the other RA's, in fact most of the time Stream of Arrows has a longer range than Amazing Shot.</p><p>Anyone else notice this?</p><p> </p><p>Hexus Lupis</p><p>60 Ranger - Valor - Kithicor</p>

[arkkon]

<div></div><div>I dont use elude.  I dont get agro.</div><div>Get a troubador.  Dps group = troubador + predators.</div><div> </div><div>we dont need a ranger type elude. You all use dire blade dont you???</div><div> </div><div>Heres the thing, all assassins have to run around the entire fight, and they have to run back and forth to get off all their ranged ca's. </div><div>All we do is sit and stream of arrows and press our othe ca's, and the occasional good ranger will debuff/dire blade, and when you do that you can elude. </div><div>But most raiding guilds who understand eq2 will have a troub with their ranger which will allow u to never steal agro, providing primal is on and flower song( from the troub).</div><div>If your asking for a longer range on elude then your asking to be lazy and make rangers take even less skill.  Sad but true.</div>

[Jiinx]

I've been thinking about the list some more, and I think the proposed solution to add more int gear since our poison procs are affected by int is concentrating on the wrong end of the stick.Int should not affect the damage done by a poison proc.  That's the issue.  Fix it so that poison damage is not affected by int, not by more int gear for Rangers.<div></div>

[arkkon]

<div>No thanks jiinx.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Ronin]

First off, far as adding utility to to the class, I think it just needs polishing at this point. And while some are not going to agree, dps is a tad high. I mean, we do by far, the easiest dps of any class. While thats all we do is dps, procs should be toned down some for poisons, I mean really the up and coming poison changes may be the best thing to happen, while not taking alot of dps away, it will take the eyes of 50% of the whiners away from us for a change.Secondly, for bows, best bow in game atm is not Imbued Ironwood, its Vilian Bow, with 12% proc rate which also procs imbued cobalt weapons from main hand, not that i use imbued cobalt weapons, cause i have a fabled 1hp with 110dmg proc roughly, and pgt. Argue if ya want, numbers prove the Vilian bow is best bow, and one most won't see, cause its a t5 fabled from deception and drayek kills. Pretty rare. What needs to be added is some good t6 non-crafted Legendary or better bows with procs, or with stats that make us want them. Like say a Special quested bow with good stats, and a self buff or something.Third and last, most hate rangers and rant about our DPS not cause of rangers but cause of thier own classes, and their function in groups and raids. Most don't see the function of say a brigand on a raid, just see scout and why are they not uber dps like rangers?  Well simply put, there is no other class in game thats soul purpose is dps. Even wizards and warlocks have utility spells and buffs. Rangers get one thing, DPS. Thats it, no more no less, just dps. When you come to reality with it, taking anything from a rangers dps, hurts everyone, and helps no one. Losing your mainstay DPS masters, Rangers, your raids suffer, group suffer and its something you come to reality really fast with. Rangers supply the main key thing on raids that can make and break fights, which is hate controlable dps, with steady supply of CA's aimed just to dish out pain. I'd love to see our self buff made into str instead of agi, and see more good str and int items. What most also dont look at is there are alternate ways to increase both stats, via armor, potions etc. And most thing they have to wear fabled to be cool. While fabled mitigation is better, honestly rangers shouldn't be getting hit anyhow. So make use of those higher int and str items out there. Lower mitigation on raids and groups isn't going to kill ya, infact you can always carry along extra armor for times you may need mitigation, but honestly i never need it. At 56, I'm buffing out at near 500str and over 200int most times, through good group setup from raid leaders. Its their job to make sure dps have thier buffs to increase their dps anyhow.  So, to make a point also, this thread is for rangers to talk to rangers about tactics, answer questions, and general ranger BS they wanna talk about. If you wanna post for dev's goto the testing forums and report it there. Where btw, they look the most for feedback. Also use ingame feedback and bug reporting.<div></div>

[EverMan]

<div></div><div>Testing fourm is for people on the test servers and if the dev didn't look at this fourm why is it sticky now?</div><div> </div><div>Also I never said Pristine Imbuned Ironwood Long Bow was the best, I said we have 2 choice for t6 bows. A t5 bow isn't going to hit much in the new expanion so it gonna be useless to use in 3 weeks.</div><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:25 AM</span></p>

[Tseri]

<div></div><p>I'm inclined to agree with the opinion that int shouldn't affect the damage of a poison.  It makes no logical sense.  I'm smarter so the poison that I bought off the broker from some alchy should do more damage?  Ok...:smileyindifferent:</p><p> </p><p>I'll also second that our offensive stance should be put back to where it was since they're fixing melee weapon procs.</p>

[Ronin]

Actually, you can hit anymob wih any level weapon now. Was changed a while back, forget which patch it was. But I know I can hit in melee with pgt on lvl 62 mobs, and thats what, a t4 heritage item i think?Point is, its the best weapon cause its proc rates are so high, the t6 Imbued ironwood is like 28% proc rate from a 7del bow, the t5 vilian bow is like near 50% proc rate, which is a substancial increase in procs, making extended raid fights even more functional for the bow, with its great chance for procs.Now as far as INT goes, honestly, I think it should be changed to where INT only effects spells and spell effects. And also should be changed to AGI again effects accuracy like it did before Combat updates.<div></div>

[Cael]

<div></div><p>I think it was changed when weapons and armor stopped having numbers like 250 and had lvls like 50. Was that LU13.....who knows lol.</p><p>I think that a weapon will hit based on your skill with that skill, like slashing, ranged etc...</p><p>Dont quote me on that, but I know that Vyrdaw Claw (sp) a lvl 40 fabled dropped in MG will hit 56 and up mobs so it would lead me to believe the previous is true</p>

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Loot in general is kind of wonky, game-wide. For example, ask a mage (or healer) what is </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> stat/effect/whatever to have on a piece of armor. Many of them will say power regen. Hence, raids usually look like a purple dress convention because every mage is wearing an Invoker robe. It's a level 40ish item with so-so stats, but everyone wants one for </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. Nobody cares much for robe X or robe Y because it doesn't beat RoI, which has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. The same situation exists here, except instead of power regen, it's proc damage. If the proc damage is crap (Ironwood) or doesn't exist (Darkfury) then the item may as well not exist, everyone wants an old T5 bow because it has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. If, however, there was a T6 bow with a 12% chance to proc 500 damage, everyone would complain about the lack of diversity in bows. When T7 rolled around, everyone would be expecting a bow with 15% chance to proc 750 damage, or else they'd complain.The cycle doesn't end.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#2 Master Strike Abilities need to be a ranged CA.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">The master strikes are aimed towards scouts in general, not rangers specifically. Scouts are seen as a melee damage class, hence melee arts. Maybe this will change when they get rid of the class progression nonsense, but I wouldn't hold my breath.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#3 Ho’s need to be on ranged CA. I know I don’t use them cause I’m never in melee range.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Would be nice if they changed some of the bow arts to have the symbols on the HO wheel. Or, like another poster said, redo the whole HO system from the ground up.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#4 The Lack of Scout Loot on raids in Dof. There are some but no much and the loot that is in the game is not the right staits for rangers. We want Str and Int on our armor there way too much agi , bards get it on there armor but it the bard only ones which we cannot use. Str for ranged/melee attack and Int for proc/poison.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Agree, would be nice to have some nice gear.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#5 The reward for the Path of Ranger quest does not give bow for reward when it says it should. And since all ranger go with longbow we would like it changed to a longbow from shortbow or a choice between the two.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">I swear I got a bow for this when I went through the quest. It was a shortbow if I remember correctly. Is this a recent bug or something?</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#6 When using Stealth to complete a HO, it will bug the ability and can not use stealth again until you relog.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">I think this is scout specific as well.</font></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#7 Focus Fire line of spells are completely useless cause of the 10 sec duration and 5 min recast.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Definitely agree.</font></font></span></p></div><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[EverMan]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Loot in general is kind of wonky, game-wide. For example, ask a mage (or healer) what is </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> stat/effect/whatever to have on a piece of armor. Many of them will say power regen. Hence, raids usually look like a purple dress convention because every mage is wearing an Invoker robe. It's a level 40ish item with so-so stats, but everyone wants one for </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. Nobody cares much for robe X or robe Y because it doesn't beat RoI, which has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. The same situation exists here, except instead of power regen, it's proc damage. If the proc damage is crap (Ironwood) or doesn't exist (Darkfury) then the item may as well not exist, everyone wants an old T5 bow because it has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. If, however, there was a T6 bow with a 12% chance to proc 500 damage, everyone would complain about the lack of diversity in bows. When T7 rolled around, everyone would be expecting a bow with 15% chance to proc 750 damage, or else they'd complain.The cycle doesn't end.</font></font></span><span><font face="Times New Roman"></font></span></p></div><hr></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mobs get more hp and  harder every tier so you don't expect your weapon to do more damge? Doesn't a 2h weapon have better damage, stats, and proc every tier? Why not a bow</p><p>Weapons and armor are apples and oranges you can not compare them.</p><p>Noone is asking for a Uber proc but don't you think it would have a better proc then  a crafted bow and % of proc are not going to go up with each tier that just crazy.</p><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:55 PM</span></p>

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>EverMania wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><strong>Problem we have found with the Ranger Subclass:</strong></font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman">#1 The Lack of Legendry / Fabled Longbows with procs. As it stand there are 2 longbows in DoF, one is the Imbuned Ironwood Longbow, and second is the Darkfury Longbow (with no proc). Not much of a choice is there.</font></span></p><p><span><font face="Times New Roman"><font color="#ff0000">Loot in general is kind of wonky, game-wide. For example, ask a mage (or healer) what is </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> stat/effect/whatever to have on a piece of armor. Many of them will say power regen. Hence, raids usually look like a purple dress convention because every mage is wearing an Invoker robe. It's a level 40ish item with so-so stats, but everyone wants one for </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. Nobody cares much for robe X or robe Y because it doesn't beat RoI, which has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. The same situation exists here, except instead of power regen, it's proc damage. If the proc damage is crap (Ironwood) or doesn't exist (Darkfury) then the item may as well not exist, everyone wants an old T5 bow because it has </font><font color="#ff0000"><b>the</b></font><font color="#ff0000"> effect. If, however, there was a T6 bow with a 12% chance to proc 500 damage, everyone would complain about the lack of diversity in bows. When T7 rolled around, everyone would be expecting a bow with 15% chance to proc 750 damage, or else they'd complain.The cycle doesn't end.</font></font></span><span><font face="Times New Roman"></font></span></p></div><hr></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote><p>Mobs get more hp and  harder every tier so you don't expect your weapon to do more damge? Doesn't a 2h weapon have better damage, stats, and proc every tier? Why not a bow</p><p>Weapons and armor are apples and oranges you can not compare them.</p><p>Noone is asking for a Uber proc but don't you think it would have a better proc then  a crafted bow and % of proc are not going to go up with each tier that just crazy.</p><p>Message Edited by EverMania on <span class="date_text">02-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:55 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Of course weapons should do more damage every tier, you missed the whole point of my post. The point was that the <b>only</b> criteria most rangers use for judging whether a bow is good or not is if it has a proc. If it has a proc, it's worth considering. If it has no proc, I'd never in a million years use it under any circumstances. A bow could have +25 str and +25 agi and +25 int and a damage rating of 240, but with no proc it would be backup gear.In this case weapons and armor are not apples and oranges, again you missed the point. I was pointing out how two older items are seen as the best item a certain class can have, not because of stats or damage or anything else, but because of one special effect. For the RoI, it is the power regen. For the bow, it's the high chance to proc a lot of damage.</span></div>

[Juniger]

<div></div><p>I say fixed the bow damage, since this last patch today bow damage was nerfed, BIG TIME.</p><p> </p><p>Dizzle</p><p>lvl 60 Ranger Black Burrow</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Culgar]

Well, they certainly wasted no time skipping past things we needed and instead damaging the class to the point of being down-right EQ1-Kunark-Ranger-ish.-1) With Stream it's understandable to have the powerdrain and the ability to be interrupted, but a MINIMUM distance is rediclious.  If my foe is dumb enough to run up to me after the attack's started, that's less chances of my arrow missing it's mark.  There was an 'old underground movie' called Lord of the Rings that illustrated that point quite clearly a few times.-2) The only thing we can do good anymore is DPS, so why is our DPS constantly being reduced?  It seems to be a continuing trend in EverQuest.-3) PC Pets breaking our Traps!-4) Confusion Arrow.  WAY WAY too dangerous to be used efficently- or frequently.-5) Anyone who calls the shots on balancing classes ever play a ranger?  Just curious...<div></div>

[Marcuzs]

They also need to fix the proc on the Imbued Ironwood Bow. Glimmering Strike procs alot less than it should. When prismatic was procing off bow it accounted for 8 to 10% of my overall damage. Glimmering Strike acounts for 1 to 3%. Now Prismatic has a chance to proc of 7% and Glimmering is only 5%, but since Glimmering is 100 more damage than Prismatic it should even out. So the difference in percentage should not be big. If glimmering were procing correctly it would probably also acount for 8% of our damage. Now with weapons no longer procing on Bow this proc needs to be fixed more than ever.<div></div>

[Hexus]

<div></div><div></div><p>Insofar as the minimum range is concerned, there still isn't one if it's started before the mob closes range and the power for the shots is so minimal as not to be noticed, the only time I've had stream interrupted whatsoever so far is by a propulsion sentinel.</p><p> </p><p>I'm sure others have noticed, for those who have not: Just an FYI.</p><p> </p><p>Hexus Lupis</p><p>60 Ranger - Kithicor - Valor</p><p>Message Edited by Hexus on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:40 PM</span></p>

[Longtrang]

<div></div><p>Stream of Arrows:</p><p>Yesterday, the day of the patch when the NERF for Stream of Arrows was supposed to take a effect, the min distance was not effected as it was described in the patch notes...</p><p>Today, it is in place, go test it before you say it isn't.</p><p> </p><p>Why they nerf a day after they say it's in place is anyones guess..</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Hexus]

<div></div><p>Actually I logged in AFTER the patch, and it wasn't effected, but when I logged in last night, it was.  So I DID "go test it" and SoE obviously dropped the ball here.  The Power drain is still minimal, the range is a pain in the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but in no way insurmountable, more of an annoyance.  Same as before with the interrupt, noticed last night that damage shields now can interrupt too, though I don't understand how a damage shield for melee classes can hit a player at ranged, guess it's another "feature."</p><p> </p><p>Hexus Lupis</p><p>60 Ranger - Valor - Kithicor</p>

[lamad]

<div><p>Let my try and sum up what i have noticed so far.....</p><p>When stream which increases aggro is on and the mob aggros, i no longer continue to do dmg when the mob gets to close.  THIS SUX considering i am rooted and stifled.</p><p>All the arrows are level one so i went from auto attack hit between 700 - 1000 to now hitting for 30- 70</p><p>Finally, i no longer proc off my weapons.</p><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!!  Why wouldnt SOE just decrease the dmg some spells do rather than make a key spell suck and more dangerous for us to use, make arrows that COST US A TON useless in auto attack, and remove a heavy portion of some of our procs!!!  Again i dont mind a decrease in dps, just dont make the class suck to play, for those who have been used to the way it was!</p><p>PS These remarks come after getting OWNED in a group, by mobs i could once solo!!!!</p></div>

[Gnome mercy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>lamadon wrote:<div><p>Let my try and sum up what i have noticed so far.....</p><p>When stream which increases aggro is on and the mob aggros, i no longer continue to do dmg when the mob gets to close.  THIS SUX considering i am rooted and stifled.</p><p>All the arrows are level one so i went from auto attack hit between 700 - 1000 to now hitting for 30- 70</p><p>Finally, i no longer proc off my weapons.</p><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!!  Why wouldnt SOE just decrease the dmg some spells do rather than make a key spell suck and more dangerous for us to use, make arrows that COST US A TON useless in auto attack, and remove a heavy portion of some of our procs!!!  Again i dont mind a decrease in dps, just dont make the class suck to play, for those who have been used to the way it was!</p><p>PS These remarks come after getting OWNED in a group, by mobs i could once solo!!!!</p></div><hr></blockquote>Not all arrows are level, try using your summon arrow spells, im only 36 and my summon feyiron is level 30, so use your summon arrows until they fix the created arrow bug

[Kala Asuras]

I do not believe that the bug keeping the Cryptic chest pieces and round shields from procing their offensive procs has been fixed yet.  This is something I would add to a list of issues that needs to be addressed.<div></div>

[BSbon]

<div></div><p>i've noticed a problem with the line of CAs that include crippling blade, raven embers, pounce etc. the ones where you need to be stealthed to use em. they currently have a shading to them to indicate that you cannot use them because you are not stealthed. the problem occurs when you activly use them in a long fight and you are not stealthed. they show as unusable but i am never sure if they are unusable due to refresh timer or not stealthed. i cannot find any way of turning off the shading.</p><p>bongo</p>

[galobart]

<div></div>Hello.I'm using "Vruxx' Obsidian Shield", and this one have 12str, 12sta, 50health, 40power, 3defection and 549proteccion...In persona window, inside avoidance, deflection say: 0.0%Ranger-58 / Tailor-60Wizzy-60<div></div><p>Message Edited by galobart on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:44 PM</span></p>

[Beldin_]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>galobart wrote:<div></div>I'm using "Vruxx' Obsidian Shield", and this one have 12str, 12sta, 50health, 40power, 3defection and 549proteccion...In persona window, inside avoidance, deflection say: 0.0%<hr></blockquote>Deflection is a Monk/Bruiser skill, and you can't push a skill that you don't have via items <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[galobart]

The shield is for all Priest, All scouts, Berserker, Guardian, Paladin and Shadowknight... not for Brawlers. ¿¿??<div></div>

[Taubin]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>galobart wrote:The shield is for all Priest, All scouts, Berserker, Guardian, Paladin and Shadowknight... not for Brawlers. ¿¿??<div></div><hr></blockquote>********Edited due to the fact that I'm an idiot today*************<p>Message Edited by GTaubin on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:27 PM</span></p>

[galobart]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>GTaubin wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>galobart wrote:The shield is for all Priest, All scouts, Berserker, Guardian, Paladin and Shadowknight... not for Brawlers. ¿¿??<div></div><hr></blockquote>Holy necro post batman!!!!<hr></blockquote>Sorry my english, but I don't understand your answer.<span>:smileysad:</span>I think, if SOE made a shield for scouts with deflection, then deflection must work for they, no?</span></div>

[Taubin]

<div></div>sorry I completely mis-understood, please accept my apology...  I've had a long day of trying to defend my class to people both on these forums, and others.  I sincerely apologise... :smileysad:  I will edit my previouse post and watch what I am typing from now on

[smoody]

<div></div><p>Arrow levels really need to be removed from the game. Damage from a bow should be calculated based on the type of bow, not the level of the arrow. Has anyone tried to equip themselves with cobalt arrows recently? The cost for a single raid can be quite staggering. I can understand having different types of arrows such as piercing, slashing and crushing, but the level really needs to go away. A change which removed the level of arrows would eliminate a good portion of our unreasonable costs for DPS.</p><p>Fredethel</p>

[Taubin]

This is a great example of what we can do to help the devs help us.  Please help keep this thread active and CONSTRUCTIVE.  There have been allot of old school rangers posting here that have been around since before LU13.  Please just keep it constructive and not a flame war.<div></div>

[strider19]

I wrote this on the forums but then discovered this board, so sorry for writing it twice but I wanted it in here:So after all the nerfage..or fixage as some would say we are really not the same class we were.  We used to be top of the line dps (as a wizard would normally be), but now we are mediocre dps with very little utility/worth to a group.  I guess I'm unhappy about this but I'm also happy because all the glory hunters are leaving my class.  One thing I would like to ask though, since they changed our stun to 2 seconds instead of 6, it gets so annoying stunning then running back to shoot when the mob unstuns and runs into our minimum range.  I realize it would be considered "unfair" by everyone who doesn't play a ranger if they took away our minimum range.  Instead of doin that, why not let our shots actually hit if the mob is out of minimum range, but runs into minimum range?  As in, if we cheap shot something run back 10 meters and begin casting our shot then the stun breaks and the mob starts running at us..the mob gets to 6m (less than minimum range) and our shot still goes off.  This way we can't just shoot someone who is meleeing us but if we began an attack we can finish it.  What say you SOE?  I know you would make every ranger in the world happy and at the same time wont' have to deal with whiners because it's really not buffing the class, just fixing an annoying issue.Also I came across someone's post who wrote "give me a cloak with a hood and I'll be happy"...I second that...I think the hoods on mages look good, but scouts deserve one too.  Plate classes get awesome shoulder pads, mages get sweet hoods, scouts are kind of screwed with crappy looking chain .  Let's face it male rangers, it looks like we are wearing a dress.  If we got cloaks with hoods we'd look like real hunters out in the wild, it would give a dangerous look and feel to make the game much more fun for all scout classes<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In fact, I'd actually rather have the hood thing rather than the bowshot at minimum range lol.  Please please please devs read and consider this, I know most posts just get ignored but this isn't asking for much<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Agree with most of the posts here. However... Path of the Ranger does not need a longbow reward... Do Grizzlefazzle's errands, and at level 65 the rewarded bow is more than twice as effective as ironwood... better stats, double the dr, and a proc onnit that i cannot see correctly yet, as i cant use it... So for all u's worried about the lack of a longbow.. dont worry, there is one, and its simply amazing.</p><p>Peacock quest line is still worth doing for the dualwield... ft14 is HUUUGE now that we actually use up pwer, and the stats on it are sick as well...I use it well over the Shortsword of Sorrow, and aside from the Godking and Terror dualies its prolly the best one that exists in DoF...(other two being so desperately rare, u may be lucky to see 3 on the same server...)</p><p>All in all, the amount of scout and ranger gear is fine....Was never worried about the lack of a plethera of bows in DoF because ironwood did so much damage. And i assure you, for all u rangers that are having trouble in DoF atm, the problem is not the weapon, its the class using it...DoF raid zones have a disgusting amount of scout gear comparibly with other zones. (of course there is still much more plate and healer loot, but thats a given considering that they are the two classes needing it the most to garauntee the success of groups and raids...) And in the first few days, i have been replacing the t6 fabled armor i had collected with regular t7 treasured....I am NOT a solo ranger at heart, so i will easily take the HUGE upgrade in stats over the small loss in mit...All in all ive been happy about the gear. Its the class thats broken...</p>

[Samundus]

would be nice to know what CA is. you know eveyone does not speak game geek or Leetie on HQ when i do a HO in TS my Select AoE does not proc inside  ect.. you might know what i just said but someone new trying to read this would get very confused.

[Zh]

<div><blockquote><hr>Samundus wrote:would be nice to know what CA is. you know eveyone does not speak game geek or Leetie on HQ when i do a HO in TS my Select AoE does not proc inside  ect.. you might know what i just said but someone new trying to read this would get very confused. <hr></blockquote>Ah you'll get used to it, we're all just too lazy to type stuff out, true typical l337 speak takes longer to type than it would with real letters.. like // / // J /-CA = combat art, or.. the melee version of spellsHQ = heritage questHO = heroic opportunityTS = probably referring to the Thundering Steppes zone.AoE = area of effect</div>

[Xeph]

<P>Dear Devs,</P> <P>It costs 8 gold to kill something with arrows on average. Can you please find a solution? Also, if you could please put back hunting arrows in the vendors that would be great.</P> <P>Thanks,</P><p>Message Edited by Xephre on <span class=date_text>04-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:02 PM</span>

[kniltsol]

<DIV>How about we do this, we are rangers, let us shoot our bows from point blank range, make that aa a actual passive skill that allows us to fire the bow at any range.  During some raids we are unable to use a bow do to spacing, this would allow us to be apart of the raid like others enjoy.:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[LoreLady]

1: - stop invis from breaking mid fight, so no AE, taunt, damage shield breaks it unless it is a direct attack..2: - Allow auto attack to run is corse even if you are using melee CAs, in in ranged auto attack distance3: - change AA's to include range (sta line multi hit, proc for debuffing mobs, aa poison)4: - Greater itemization of bows so that its inline with dps weapons5: - a quested bow that gives us arrows6: - Make CA's no longer consume arrows just auto attack

[Saihung23]

<P>I am not sure if this issue has been raised yet or not...but here goes...</P> <P> </P> <P>With all of the money that rangers have to spend on arrows/poisons not to mention on items other characters have to...such as Chain Armor (no offense to you leather clad rangers), spell upgrades, and food....</P> <P>We now have one of the rarest components needed for making Adept III's.  I know with LU24 rares are no longer truly "rare"...but when you start harvesting in DoF and KoS rares are not coming up like the other tiers....it still takes a relatively long time before harvesting a rare from an ore...and there are 3 different things it could be...a scintillating rock/xegonite/spongy loam (I am using T7 as this is where my experience mainly lies).</P> <P>I look at the pricing (since I am not one of the lucky ones to have actually harvested a Spongy loam) on my server and Spongy Loam is priced at 2pp 40gold....</P> <P>I look at the price of Acrylia under a pp, I look at the price of other rares all at about half the price of Spongy Loams...</P> <P>What gives?  As if Fighters and Scouts dont pay enough (plate is pretty expensive too from what I hear and see) for their classes...it was seen fit to give us the rarest of the rares as our components for Adept III's in every tier.</P> <P>I think it is a problem....I think they need to rethink what they are doing here...</P> <P>I think it stinks personally...the solution is theirs to find but the problem is ours.</P>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>This is definately a problem.  On my server, moonstones (priests) and acrylia (mages) cost 1pp while spongy loams (fighter and scouts) cost 4pp.  Even if they fixed the drop rates to equal the moonstones and acrylia, the cost is still going to be inflated because it's used by twice as many classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Masters are more common than spongy loams.  Actually, I shouldn't have mentioned this, because the easy fix would be to reduce the drop rate on masters.:smileytongue:</DIV>

[Corwinus]

<P>Well, I do not intend to attract flames or angry comments like "if you dont like the way it is done in EQ2 leave it, ... and give us your gear lol", but fellow rangers take a look a this and give me your thoughts. </P> <P>We all played rangers in a game or another, does not it look like what we would have liked EQ2 rangers to be ?</P> <P><A href="http://vgrangers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168" target=_blank>http://vgrangers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168</A></P> <P>Regards </P> <P>Corwin Ragere 70, Carpenter 70 on Oasis server</P>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><div>Either we or the fighters need to use the rare pelt or root, frankly. Having 12 classes that all need the same rare for their Adept 3's is ridiculous. </div> <div> </div> <div>I've been harvesting in Tier 5 and I've noticed the same thing. I've gotten a small handful of each type of rare, and 2 fused loams. I was amazed to get those 2 fused loams, given how rare the ore node has been the past few days in general. It wasn't others harvesting. I generally have the area to myself when I harvest and I harvest everything to keep things clear. Ore was definitely the rarest node and rare loam is the rarest rare from it. </div> <div> </div> <div>They seem like they're giving the big FU to melee classes in general with these changes. I compared the Tier 4 cloth and leather armor with Tier 4 chain and plate my guildmate was making. Non-rare cloth had resists, health/power and stats. Leather had health/power and stats. Chain I *think* had health/power like the leather and stats. Plate had stats.</div> <div> </div> <div>Now once you get into the rare, some resists and health/power start getting stacked on to those without. But this is non-rare cloth that has a pretty decent makeup, and then those who are actually going to be hit in that tier, the melee classes, get shafted in terms of non-rare crafted armor.</div> <div> </div> <div>I really wish I knew what gives. Edit: I've been harvesting in Tier 5, not 4, teehee </div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class=date_text>06-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 PM</span>

[Jay]

<DIV>I totally agree, Gwyn. I know every class has its expenses, but I refuse to believe that melee classes shouldn't get many upgraded CAs, while casters should have easy access to Adept IIIs for their spells. Coupled with the fact that most casters get the cheap rares for weapons and armor, it really does seem like SOE is deliberately screwing over most of the melee classes when it comes to rare needs and the frequency of those rares dropping. </DIV>

[arkkon]

<DIV>Easy fix to arrow problems, combat arts shouldnt use arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Atm, get your current summon arrow spell to adept 3 or master 1.  The price you spend on getting it will be less than the price of buying those arrows, over time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or be a melee ranger <3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TaleraRis]

<blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div>I totally agree, Gwyn. I know every class has its expenses, but I refuse to believe that melee classes shouldn't get many upgraded CAs, while casters should have easy access to Adept IIIs for their spells. Coupled with the fact that most casters get the cheap rares for weapons and armor, it really does seem like SOE is deliberately screwing over most of the melee classes when it comes to rare needs and the frequency of those rares dropping. </div><hr></blockquote>With the recent changes, root and pelts have been the ones I found in highest numbers. I've been considering Augmented leather for Gwyn because it has some good stats and I want to see if she'll do better in leather. Plus Ebon is a PITA to get and I'm not harvesting TIer 6 yet.  But it really is a situation where things aimed toward casters and cloth wearers are more plentiful. They sell for less on the broker because they are, in my experience, much more easily obtained.<div></div>

[Recca[BK]]

why wouldnt CAs use arrows, that really make no sense. triple volley you are using a special skill to shot 3 arrows, if you didnt use arrows in CAs what would be the projectile? as far as rares go if you really want an adept 3 harvest or go solo greens and blues for a bit to buy one.

[Merkad]

@Recca[BK] - The main reason why is really an issue of fun trumping realism. No one finds the exorbitant cost of arrows fun nor fair, even though it is realistic. As various threads clearly illustrate, hostility is growing due to things like this (and quite a bit more actually <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (imo, deservedly so)).Regardless, you are welcome to your opinion, but as for myself, I stand with those who think being forced to pay money to deal damage is wrong (the only class who does, that is).Merkades.

[Recca[BK]]

cause assassins dont have to buy arrows ever, i guess i missed when we got endless quiver handed to us.

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Recca[BK] wrote:<BR>cause assassins dont have to buy arrows ever, i guess i missed when we got endless quiver handed to us.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Regardless of your answer, I'm sure you got his point.  Or, are you implying that, just like Rangers, assassins commonly go through 4k arrows a day.

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Recca[BK] wrote:<BR>cause assassins dont have to buy arrows ever, i guess i missed when we got endless quiver handed to us.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I guess I missed where the vast majority of Assassin CAs used tons and tons of arrows. I also missed the part where Assassins spend enough time at range to use a lot of Arrows for Ranged AA. I guess, in all, I missed the part where Assassins were ranged DPS.</P> <P>Arrow usage for Rangers is way out of hand and it way beyond what anyone else has to deal with. Play a ranger to 70, go XPing or raiding then come back here and talk about arrows.</P>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Recca[BK] wrote:<BR> as far as rares go if you really want an adept 3 harvest or go solo greens and blues for a bit to buy one.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Someone hasn't been reading the thread.</P> <P>We are out there harvesting, and we're finding the comparison between mage and priest Adept 3 rares to be much greater than the drop rate for the Adept 3 rare for the melee classes. As such, this has made prices for not only the Adept 3s made by these, the rares used to make them, but even the Master I and Adept I spells have gone up considerably in price since the Adept 3 rare has gotten so hard to get at some higher tiers.</P> <P>Being on a large server, I've noticed a significant increase in price. I've also noticed that it's not just a problem with drop rate, but spawn rate of the ore node in general. Harvesting the same area and clearing everything, I have still found the ore node to be the rarest of the nodes.<BR></P>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Recca[BK] wrote:<BR> as far as rares go if you really want an adept 3 harvest or go solo greens and blues for a bit to buy one.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Someone hasn't been reading the thread.</P> <P>We are out there harvesting, and we're finding the comparison between mage and priest Adept 3 rares to be much greater than the drop rate for the Adept 3 rare for the melee classes. As such, this has made prices for not only the Adept 3s made by these, the rares used to make them, but even the Master I and Adept I spells have gone up considerably in price since the Adept 3 rare has gotten so hard to get at some higher tiers.</P> <P>Being on a large server, I've noticed a significant increase in price. I've also noticed that it's not just a problem with drop rate, but spawn rate of the ore node in general. Harvesting the same area and clearing everything, I have still found the ore node to be the rarest of the nodes.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh and on this thread, it's out of control on Crushbone. I think when I looked Acrylia/Moonstones went for about 80gp. Loams were nearly twice that at 2pp.

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>I'll check Najena tonight. Last I looked our prices were comparable, but that was closer to the patch.</DIV>

[Jay]

<P>I just checked BB over the weekend... spongy loams are still 3pp or so, so prices haven't come down much at all. Moonstones and acrylia are under 1pp. </P> <P>If I hadn't already been bent over by SOE so many times in the last year and a half, I might be concerned about it hurting a little this time. </P>

[Saihung23]

<P>I harvested all weekend while doing some things around KoS...all I harvested other than regular loams and admantium...was scintillating stones <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Granted I made a nice bit of money from the metal, but the regular loams sell for 2cp...</P> <P>Over 300 harvests, 2 scintillating stones.  About 150 metal, 150 loam.  I sold the metal for about 15sp a pop and made about 25 gold...</P> <P>I was hoping for just ONE spongy loam to get my reclaimed arrows at adept III without shelling over half my fortune for one rare (okay..so I am lying I have slightly more money than that).</P> <P>Ah well...lets see if I get one this week :/</P>

[Recca[BK]]

yes i know you use more arrows than assassins, however soloing for maybe 2 to 3 hours i can burn through 2k arrows easy enough. when my autoattack hits for 2 to 3k why wouldnt i use arrows everytime i can.

[Jayad]

Ammo cost is not purely a ranger problem, it also affects many other classes.  Rangers just are impacted the most by this particular issue.

[Teksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div>Ammo cost is not purely a ranger problem, it also affects many other classes.  Rangers just are impacted the most by this particular issue.<hr></blockquote>Which is why it is a Ranger concern. Every other class I have played will use at most a couple of stacks of ammo on a given night. Rangers CAN (rarely) use that much on a single encounter.</div>

[Jay]

Last I knew, no other DPS class relied on consummable ammunition to contribute the majority of their damage. That's why it's a bigger issue for us than anyone else.

[Saihung23]

<P>Price checked Loam last night on Befallen (R.I.P Faydark) and it is OVER 3pp with the broker fees....</P> <P>I used to be amazed at all the things I could do with one pp...now I am amazed at how little one pp does anymore...</P> <P> </P> <P>***edited***</P> <P>I just reread this post by me...and I sound like my grandfather when I was a kid.  He would hand me a quarter and then tell me all the things he used to be able to do with a quarter...</P><p>Message Edited by Saihung23 on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:08 PM</span>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>I posted a comparison in Jay's rarity thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as for arrow usage, I'm not even a raider and I feel it. I used about 4 stacks alone in just a couple hours of greybie evil eye hunting.</DIV>

[Dragonsword]

There are several things I would dissagree with. Without flaming anyone.From my understanding of a ranger they are both deadly with a bow, and in melee combat. Taking out AGI for INT, to me seems like a bad idea as a rangers attack and defence is supposed to be in their speed, and ability to parry. Although I use poisons I would think that an assasin would have a greater ability to use them, and if you want the INT string get it added to compliment the others.Secondly I start HO's in groups continously, and I generally start from a Ranged attack move in close and melee, then when my ranged attacks come up move out to ranged attacks again, and if you hit the sweet spot, you are combining both attacks very rapidly as most of these attacks can be done without moving very far.As someone who has been playing a Ranger since he started, and soloed most of his way to lvl 35, and then started working in raids and groups, I have been happy overall with my ranger, and the way that I play it which doesn't mean everyone else has to play it the same way.I do agree with the lack of Ranger Items for looting, and with weapon choice and procs. I was still using the Sureshot Bow well into the 50's. As to dual wield weapons, there are a few nice weapons there but they could be added to a bit.One of the biggest problems I have is with our useless pets, I always thought fighting a Tiger would be hard work, and I would think as a pet it should give as a few more options other than back off and protect itself, I know that they take agro well, but they really should look a bit further into that. I dont expect our pets to tank well but I would like to see them a bit more viscious in their attacks.Lastly as a woodworker I understand why player crafted arrows are expensive, as even with the latest crafting changes it takes ages to make a decent amount of thrown weapons or arrows. I think that player crafted arrows should affect our CA's more as well. I think that on average it takes me at least an hour to make 500 arrows, and considering that it only takes me about 4 hours to use 2000 of them when Im out fighting, I would like to see a pristine crafting make 50. Then maybe I would sell them cheaper on the broker.<p>Message Edited by Dragonsword20 on <span class=date_text>10-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 AM</span>

[Likias]

<P>Omg...I can never have too many arrows.  I made my monk a WW just to keep up with my damand.  Just using the arrow foraging isnt enough anymore.  It use to be for some reason...lol.  I love my Thorny Trap - doesnt work as often as it use to but still, and my attack hawk - now I dont know who came up with the pet D.O.T but thanx, its save my life more than once.  I'm glad you can buy stacks of the poisons cuz they dont last very long.  At times they dont even last the 12hrs (I'm assuming EQ2 time) that is suppose to.  Cuz if it is, then time is surely flying in its fun...lol. </P> <P>I'm just afraid if you say too much about things that are just...wrong...we'll see the brunt of those "fixes" in the next patch...lol</P> <P> </P>

[Merkad]

Wow, that is a misconception that just refuses to die.. Poisons only last 12 hours when you are not using them. They are 12hours or 100procs (damage poisons) *whichever* comes first. I have never had a poison last 12 hours, mostly because I don't just sit around online crafting/harvesting/doing nothing.I extremely dislike Woodworkers and Alchemists.. and all tradeskillers, that is all.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[frisco4]

You forget(And I'm not joking), that the SOE Dev team or someone on it hates rangers with a passion...I have no freaking idea why...but all decisions in the past have only led me to believe someone up there dislikes us.  (This isn't a debate over our power etc just in regards to how the class unfolds w/ price etc).<div></div>

[Teksun]

It's easy. They hate us cuz they play on PVP servers...<div></div>

[xandez]

yup, lets face it. The PvP is what brought us down. I can clearly understand that too, but they really couldnt make it in some another way?sniff++Xan<div></div>

[Dragonsword]

<blockquote><hr>Merkades wrote: I have never had a poison last 12 hours, mostly because I don't just sit around online crafting/harvesting/doing nothing.I extremely dislike Woodworkers and Alchemists.. and all tradeskillers, that is all.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<hr></blockquote>I dont sit around crafting either, I do one or 2 levels a night ususally making arrows for my ranger, Dont understand why you would say you "DISLIKE" Woodworkers or Alchemists, you get good ones you get bad ones, same as any other tradeskill, or adventure class, or player.

[Teksun]

Rangers: First one in. Last one standing.I love it...Usually because we have revived and are back at the zone line when the rest of the guild wipes <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[duranvaer]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by duranvaer on <span class=date_text>10-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragonsword20 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I dont sit around crafting either, I do one or 2 levels a night ususally making arrows for my ranger, Dont understand why you would say you "DISLIKE" Woodworkers or Alchemists, you get good ones you get bad ones, same as any other tradeskill, or adventure class, or player.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Just a guess here, and not to speak for him or anything, but it might have to do with the "markup" prices that TSers sell their wares. Seeing as how I've been remembering the days of old.... Anyone recall at lauch that the richest players on the servers used to be Alchys for their overpriced washes/resins/tempers?</P> <P>I really dont have any issues with crafter that want to make money, but if it costs you 6g (if theres a t7 alchy around please correct my numbers) to make a Mastercrafted poison, and I believe if its pristine you get 4 vials, and you sell each vial for 6g, you're prolly overpriced. Yeah I know, that isnt including any of the raws used to make it, and its not including any of the rare dust?!? (cant recall their name off the top of my head) But alchys make fighter CAs as well, so not all of the dust is being purchased off the broker. Before the crafting revamp, overprices crafting stuff prolly seemed about right for a lot of ppl, due to how long and tedious things used to be, but these days, its a joke to make anything, so over charging for any player crafted items just seems silly.</P>

[Wildian]

<DIV>Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but my biggest concern as a ranger is arrows and the costs associated with them. No other class gets charged for the dps they deal out, which in effect is what is happening here. Yes we can melee, but nowhere near as effective as our ranged hits. I burn through 60-70g on a labs or lyceaum trash run easy, and thats using merchant arrows at almost 7s each. If I use player made ones the cost goes up substantially. Thats just on one run... So if I do anything else during the day, it's safe to say I pay a plat a day to be a ranger just in consumable ammo. No other class has to do anything else close to that to be effective. Yes.. other classes use ammo, but not anywhere near the extent we do. At the very least woodworkers should produce more arrows per combine to bring the price down some. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>More bow drops and quest rewards would also be nice as well, but lets get the price of arrows to a more reasonable rate please. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Xariack</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger / 70 Jeweler</DIV> <DIV>Befallen</DIV>

[Recca[BK]]

<DIV>im a 70 alchy. rare poisons imo shouldnt cost more than 2.5g each for the time being. the dust required is still pretty plentiful on my server. but as for a pric break down</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>10-12 gp for the dust</DIV> <DIV>raws are zero cost really take 1 root 1 azurite and 1 loam (the roots can cost like 30 silver but the others i find sell for 2 cp)</DIV> <DIV>fuel take 4 flamewrought candels (35 each) so just round it up to 2gp the fuels reqs have been changed 3 times</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so 12-14 gp to make 10 vials of poison.</DIV> <DIV>if you charge 2gp each its a small profit but i can make 200 fairly quickly so its really a volume market imo.</DIV> <DIV>i think 2.5gp is more than fair, but there are server undercutters on my server now forcing me to sell cheaper.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gerdos]

<DIV>I use ProphetUI, and last night i noticed that it does not show my double attack bonus at 10% (taking the AA multiple shot line - final rank).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this only a display bug, found only in ProphetUI?  I didn't take a log, so unable to check it, but, can someone confirm that double attack, currently works as intended for rangers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[gfx]

<cite>Teksun wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's easy. They hate us cuz they play on PVP servers... </blockquote> lol please don't say that until you have actually stepped foot on a PvP server.

[FiveFootStep]

That UI only shows your melee double atk, rangers are working right... ish <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Vifarc]

[HighlandsDrift]

trap seems to be bugged atm..disapears after setting

[Ultharandor]

I'm really sorry butIs anybody reworking our lists of information.It is good that this is a sticky but I see very old information in it

[feldon30]

<cite>Ulthanas@Innovation wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm really sorry butIs anybody reworking our lists of information.It is good that this is a sticky but I see very old information in it</blockquote>These items on that list still apply.<b>- Heroic Opportunities are useless for Rangers.</b> My 2 starters for HOs as a Ranger are a persistent buff and a melee attack.<b>- Master Strike (Lore & Legend) still requires a backstab.</b><b>- There's still a lack of ranger loot.</b>- <b>Focus Fire is still useless.</b> What ranger knows exactly when to press this button since they'll only get 10 seconds use out of it? I have tried repeatedly to explain to tanks and other group members to please let me know 10 seconds before they are going to start so I can fire off my 3 short term buffs. I gave up and these buttons never get pressed. Unless you are on Ventrilo or have a psychic link to your main tank, there's no way to know exactly when battle will commence.Some things are better:- Echoes of Faydwer improved things for rangers with more ranger loot and the Rain Caller lvl 57 bow (Casualties of the War of the Fay HQ). Still would like to see more longbows.The issues raised later in the thread such as <b>Combat Arts consuming thousands of arrows a night</b> was apparently changed a long time ago. Although apparently it was changed BACK around the time of Kunark according to a ranger friend who has stopped playing because of this crap, once again <b>being a Ranger costs 50g-1pp a night to do the same damage a Wizard does for free.</b>The issue brought up later about the loams costing 2-3 plat has been reduced. Now they go for 50-75 gold. The Adept IIIs for Rangers at level 50-80 is still 2-3 times the price of Adept IIIs for Wizards. But I guess that is the nature of the beast.There have been a lot of agro and targeting changes over the past year. It is now much easier (unfortunately) for a ranger to get agro. Also Miracle Arrow is now just another ranged attack instead of a truly miracle shot. Because of pathing/elevation problems in these progressively more complicated zones, rangers and conjurers both get a lot of "Can't see Target" garbage.Finally, <b>Stream of Arrows is still a pain</b>. If we get agro, we are helpless for 30 seconds, standing there dumb and doing nothing. Which is stupid because rangers do have an AA "Point Blank Shot". So if we can fire an arrow from 12 inches away then, why can we not do it during Stream of Arrows? Personally, <b>I would rather Stream of Arrows break if we hold agro for more than 5 seconds.</b> Anything is better than SoA being a potential deathtrap for a ranger.

[Baish]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finally, <b>Stream of Arrows is still a pain</b>. If we get agro, we are helpless for 30 seconds, standing there dumb and doing nothing. Which is stupid because rangers do have an AA "Point Blank Shot". So if we can fire an arrow from 12 inches away then, why can we not do it during Stream of Arrows? Personally, <b>I would rather Stream of Arrows break if we hold agro for more than 5 seconds.</b> Anything is better than SoA being a potential deathtrap for a ranger.</blockquote>Stream of Arrows and it's upgrades can be canceled can't they?  The description says... "Fires a steady stream of arrows at a target. To maintain this effect, the ranger forgoes normal ranged attacks and combat arts and must be rooted in place, and it requires that the target be outside the melee range. <b>This ability can be toggled to end early if needed</b>." So idk if you didn't know that you could cancel it or maybe your point is that you might lose dps if you have to cancel it? Idk just figured i'd say that just incase you didn't read the ability description lol.

[Yonaton]

<cite>Dragonsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>There are several things I would dissagree with. Without flaming anyone.From my understanding of a ranger they are both deadly with a bow, and in melee combat. Taking out AGI for INT, to me seems like a bad idea as a rangers attack and defence is supposed to be in their speed, and ability to parry. <p>Message Edited by Dragonsword20 on <span class="date_text">10-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:15 AM</span></p></blockquote><p>This right off,I disagree with respectfully. As it sits now,Rangers AREN'T deadly in Melee combat on pvp servers. In pvp,Rangers have no incombat runspeed anymore. Typical scenario:</p><p>You track someone up,attack a solo player yourself. You fire off your back attack,or maybe both,instant incombat runspeed to zero. During this time however,your enemy isn't sitting still. He's moving within range(as he still has his out of combat runspeed),and if he's a melee class,you are dead. Your bow is effectively useless. You have point blank shot,but that's it. Your melee combat arts DO NOT deal dmg like an assassin. So,in other words,once they close the gap you are a [Removed for Content].</p><p>Never mind that a clothie can chain you down and nuke you to death. Auto bow attacks will do nothing,and your multi arrow attacks aren't that good anymore. A simple potion pop and they've eaten up your dps and got you. And forget about druid classes,lol.</p><p>PVE is just as bad. Rangers need some dps close in,and we are sorely lacking there. Poison? Pffft. Poison isn't going to make you as a Ranger,not when your one big back attack in melee does 700 dmg(thereabouts) at lvl 27. If you don't bring help,you might as well not go out at all.</p><p>The arrow and poison situation I can live with. Honestly on Vox it's not so bad. The loams aren't really that pricey for us lower tier. I do understand that at the higher tiers they can put a hole in your money bags tho. Having a woodworker myself to supply my two with arrows,and selling some on the side,I know for a fact Rangers run through a mass quantity. 1500 arrows? Lol. I can craft that many up and have em sold before the broker cools down. Go back and do another. Sell for 1 gold a 100. Day in day out.</p><p>I wanted to play a ranger because it's a cool class. I don't want to play an Assassin so I can have a "dps Ranger" or a "melee" Ranger. Rangers need to be able to protect themselves close in too. As it stands now,with no way to put distance between you and an enemy in pvp,you might as well forget it.</p>

[Selfea]

<cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite><blockquote> As it stands now,with no way to put distance between you and an enemy in pvp,you might as well forget it.</blockquote><p>Which is precisely why I have never understood why EQ2 rangers have no way to root and enemy in place. If we suck at melee distance, but we can't (in solo combat) keep an enemy at range distance we're stuffed. And since we can't use our ranged abilities whilst moving (ie kiting) because we get "interupted" we're really pretty stuffed to try and take anything of any use down solo.</p><p>That's the one complaint I do have about rangers; their lack of soloability. Really, when half the time you die trying to solo gray ^, ^^, or ^^^ mobs, makes you wonder why you bother.</p><p>I've played other MMOs and I always play a ranger, and EQ2 is the first time I've encountered a class that either can't root a mob, or can't fire abilities off whilst moving.</p>

[Gisallo]

<cite>Selfea wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Yonaton wrote:</cite><blockquote> As it stands now,with no way to put distance between you and an enemy in pvp,you might as well forget it.</blockquote><p>Which is precisely why I have never understood why EQ2 rangers have no way to root and enemy in place. If we suck at melee distance, but we can't (in solo combat) keep an enemy at range distance we're stuffed. And since we can't use our ranged abilities whilst moving (ie kiting) because we get "interupted" we're really pretty stuffed to try and take anything of any use down solo.</p><p>That's the one complaint I do have about rangers; their lack of soloability. Really, when half the time you die trying to solo gray ^, ^^, or ^^^ mobs, makes you wonder why you bother.</p><p>I've played other MMOs and I always play a ranger, and EQ2 is the first time I've encountered a class that either can't root a mob, or can't fire abilities off whilst moving.</p></blockquote><p>In PvE  (can't speak to PvP) Rangers are actually better in solo than other scouts in my expereince.  First we do have a root, its called trap.  Does it mean you have to wait, be patient, lay it out and then pull back a bit?  Yeah but its there and it works.  After that you can Leg Shot him into near immobility (main reason I took it as my Master II with my Developement tree 75% movement reduction).  It doesn't do a lot of damage, but it recharges quick, especially if you keep adding to it in your AA tree so you can be keeping the guy at 75% for the whole fight since every other shot is going to be leg shot.  I actually run into the problem of having to let him get close enough for some of my longer range HtH abilities because I am waiting for bow attacks to recharge.  All of this makes a Ranger pretty survivable as a solo character as opposed to other Scouts.  But thats why one of your HtH attacks has a root component.  Knock him down with Point blank, smack him with the Root HtH attack back up; Leg Shot, wash rinse repeat.</p><p>Now in a group Rangers are a mess.  You're not kiting so its ALL about DPS.  There Rangers have issues, even swashies at this point can out Parse us on the DPS side and they actually have some usefull utility skills that Rangers sorely lack.    </p>