KoS and AA's? EPICS?!?

[Gailstryd]

<DIV>KoS is set to add in an AA like system and while no one really knows yet how it will be set up, what do you guys think some of the Ranger'ish AA's will be?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally am hoping to see maybe endless quiver come back and while most peeps didn't care for them in eq1 towards the end they added some AA's to add ice, fire, etc. particle affects and dmg to our arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=news_announcements&message.id=179" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=news_announcements&message.id=179</A> notice the portion that talks about Heritage quests and "even a reward made famous in the original <EM>EverQuest."  </EM>that may be something to do with old eq1 epics being introduced as heritage or even possibly new class specific heritage to be the eq2 version of the epic.  It also makes mention of another signature quest (basically I think they are what prismatic and peacock quests are) which means maybe a new round of prismatic like weapons or even something better as a reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't wait I'm already dying for new content and I've even run both my alts dry of vitality playing them so much.  Please suggest any cool AA idea's maybe the dev's will read and take some notes whether it be new stuff or stuff you'd like to see from eq1 AA.  And by the way for those who don't know, AA or alternate advance was a method of still gaining xp after you reached your lvl cap with each lvl of AA you earned a point and once you had accumulated enough you could use them to "buy" upgrades to your character.  Some eq1 examples would be increasing your stats/saves, improving your dual wielding, getting extra attacks, added bow dmg, endless quiver, use to be how pally/sk got their horses, and many other types of things some small some large.  Use to be if you didnt have certain AA in eq1 you would sometimes not get picked for a group or raid, bu supposedly SOE has "fixed" the idea and that kind of thing won't necessarily happen hehe.  Speculate and share!</DIV>

[Deml]

I wouldn't count on endless quiver, the devs have said all along they don't want that skill in EQ2 because of what it did for eq1, although it would rock if they did put it in. I would like some of the old aa's they had that let you do more damage, hit from farther away, fire faster, do specific types of damage, etc.  Granted it means i'll end up with a 6th full hotbar but I think I can live with that. lol

[Frobus]

Lol, I would love to see endless quiver put back in.  If for no other reason then I hate carrying 30 stacks of arrows everywhere.  But the return of my swifty would be sweet too <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[dubbs]

I didn't play a high level ranger in EQ1, what problem did endless quiver cause?

[Gareorn]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> dubbs wrote:<BR> I didn't play a high level ranger in EQ1, what problem did endless quiver cause?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not a problem for us Rangers.  But it did mess up the balance a bit and it and kinda hurt the fletchers, not that tradeskilling plays that big a role in EQ1 anyway.  It makes us uber enough that many high end raiding guilds wouldn't consider a Ranger for membership unless he/she had Endless Quiver.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The high end arrows do additional cold, heat, magic, etc types of damage and you only need one arrow of each type.  Then you can choose which arrow to use based on the mob's resistances.  Still not as uber as the Cleric epic clicky stick, but still, it's a pretty awesome skill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It wouldn't work well in EQ2.  Could you imagine all the Rangers running around with an endless supply of cobalt arrows.  OMG, the other classes would be running around lynching Rangers left and right.</DIV>

[Te]

<P>Tbh three things I wish for with the new expansion.</P> <P>1. Endless quiver AA. (I just want to be able have a rare arrow like ebon, cobalt as that arrow and ill be smoochy happy)</P> <P>2. A heritage thats so hard that you need to spend a lifetime getting it...... the reward should be a bow<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>3. Another AA that could be cool is a crit hit AA that would be a crit on the offensive stance proc. (Imagine the sudden aggro,,,,,, visualize it and the swearing from the tank. I know you can see that and laugh yourself silly;P)</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Ah yes I forgot what would make things real sweet in future. If one could decide on your prefered playstyle as ranger and assassin, so that one can choose AA's to become more melee or archerylike. Would be nice wouldnt it?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Tevf on <span class=date_text>01-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:11 PM</span>

[Jay]

<DIV>I've mentioned this before, but one AA skill I'd like to see could be something like Herbal Medicine or Natural Poultice or something like that. A small self-only regen, usable in combat, maybe only once every 2-3 mins or so. Just a bit of self-healing to help with soloing. The problem is that this would be most useful at lower levels and probably less useful past 60.</DIV>

[Saihung23]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div> <div><font color="#66ff33">I've mentioned this before</font>, but one AA skill I'd like to see could be something like Herbal Medicine or Natural Poultice or something like that. A small self-only regen, usable in combat, maybe only once every 2-3 mins or so. Just a bit of self-healing to help with soloing. The problem is that this would be most useful at lower levels and probably less useful past 60.</div><hr></blockquote>I think I remember you mentioning this...I also think I remember liking this idea...I think. Peace Health and Happiness Sai P.S. I think I suggested the forage berries...now I think forage berries would be a great lower level aa for young rangers who cant always afford decent food...well vendor trash food. I think.</span><div></div>

[King Leor]

<P>Ya i would love to see hardcore forrever taking class specific quests like from EQ1. Where ranger has to get earth caller and swiftwind. And as it is now they are being upgraded etc. But ya, along lines of same thing. But for now who knows what they will incorporate. Would love endless quiver so I can buy one awesome rare t7 arrow and use it. as I only use summoned for now and dont wanna waste money.</P> <P>Leoric<BR>Level 60 ranger</P>

[Frobus]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tevf wrote:<div></div> <p>Tbh three things I wish for with the new expansion.</p> <p>1. Endless quiver AA. (I just want to be able have a rare arrow like ebon, cobalt as that arrow and ill be smoochy happy)</p> <p><font color="#ff0000"><b>2. A heritage thats so hard that you need to spend a lifetime getting it...... the reward should be a bow<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b></font></p> <p>3. Another AA that could be cool is a crit hit AA that would be a crit on the offensive stance proc. (Imagine the sudden aggro,,,,,, visualize it and the swearing from the tank. I know you can see that and laugh yourself silly;P)</p> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Edit: Ah yes I forgot what would make things real sweet in future. If one could decide on your prefered playstyle as ranger and assassin, so that one can choose AA's to become more melee or archerylike. Would be nice wouldnt it?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Tevf on <span class="date_text">01-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The return of the the Trueshot Bow?  That'd be cool.  Although I still want swiftwind and earthcaller to make a return <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I miss the  lightning blades <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Tevilspek]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>I've never had anything to do with EQ1, so:</div><div>Was the AA system something that you used from an early age to personalise your character?Or was it just something you get at higher/max levels for more uber rewards? If so, that'd be pretty lame.</div><div>Would be nice to see a points -> skill upgrades system or something, coming in at each level.Or you think it'll be a level 61-70 only, being only part of the expansion content, and not a 'buy the expansion and effect all your characters' content?Not really knowing SoE's style in regards to AAs or whatever, am very curious to see what they come up with.</div><div>[Edit #2: Decided to remove a couple of bits to save on causing a thread derail]</div><p>Message Edited by Tevilspek on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:21 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Tevilspek on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:25 PM</span></p>

[Deml]

<div></div><p>In EQ1, AA's were introduced with the Luclin expansion (if I remember right).  They were for folks level 52+.  Upon reaching lvl 52 you were given another xp bar for Alternate Advancement.  On the fly you could change what % of your earned xp went to this AAxp bar, from 0 to 100, whatever amount you wanted.  The xp you needed for 1 aa level, or point, was the equivalent xp of going from 52 to 53.  Most people got to max level then just started churning out AAxp.   You had different tiers of abilities.  General were things like +1 or 2 to stats and saves for every point you put in, up to a max of like 5 points, better lung capacity so you could stay underwater longer, better metabolism so you didn't go through food so fast, faster natural run speed, etc.  The second set was class abilities where you would get things that went to all magi or all fighter types, etc.  Things like a chance to do crits more often or 'lightning reflexes' that let you dodge attacks more.  The 3rd option was Archtype where you got abilities specific to your class only.  Magicians got things like new pet commands, summoning more than 1 pet at a time, faster summons, etc.  Rangers got things like Endless Quiver.  I was a mage so I don't know more of what Rangers got, sorry.  That was the original setup.  With later expansions the AA window gained more tabs, for each expansion, with more abilities you could pickup to make your character stronger. </p><p>Some of the abilities became class defining abilities, like Endless Quiver or Pet Hold.  They became requirements for raids and some guilds for recruitment.</p>

[Siphar]

<div></div><p>If i remember correctly AA came out in Eq1 when the max level was 60. 1AA (alternate advancement) was equal to 1x level 50. Getting 1 AA required the same amount of exp to go from lvl 50 to lvl 51.</p><p>Therefore doing AA (you can switch and alter the % contributed to AA as you exp) at 50 was far slower than doing it at lvl 60. It would take perhaps 4-6 hours to get 1 AA at 50 whilst at 60 with the right gear, class, grp perhaps and mobs you could hope to get up to 6 AA an hour. Legit anyway <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Plenty of people found clever ways to Power Level their AA. One of my favourite was a bard who used selos to simple kite the whole zone and received up to 15 AA every 5-10 minutes. It was the zone with the armoured mobs with no actual bodies inside the armour, lol its been such a long time. It was a small zone with temples everywhere that came out with PoP and required flagging..</p><p>Anyway, AA was more the ability to further advance your char beyond the skill base of a typical lvl 60. So much so infact after a couple of more expansions and further AA added at each, someone with 500+AA Lvl 65 (lvl cap was raised to 65 and 70 with Omen of war) compared to a lvl 65 and a few AA would completely different power. The 500AA char would be perhaps 3 times the strength.</p><p>This brought problems because the AA system created a wide gap between the normal casual players and the hardcore raiders who required few hundred AA. Grp's and certainly hardcore raiding guilds would request x number of AA to be in the grp or raid. I had 2 chars, both with around 200-300AA.</p><p>Now the AA themselfs would add lots of interesting things to your char including faster haste, more hp, faster power and hp regen as well as several class specific abilities which were very nice indeed (Endless Quiver to name one for ranger) and something i think Eq2 misses. Class specifics... all the chars still seem to blend in as one.</p><p>-60 Ranger 56 pally</p>

[Siphar]

<div>i think you are wrong demlar.. was 50 to 51... and you could start geting AA at lvl 50.</div>

[Ssindain]

<span></span><span><blockquote><hr>Siphar wrote:<div></div><p>This brought problems because the AA system created a wide gap between the normal casual players and the hardcore raiders who required few hundred AA. Grp's and certainly hardcore raiding guilds would request x number of AA to be in the grp or raid. I had 2 chars, both with around 200-300AA.</p><hr></blockquote>Like Siphar mentioned, most people are against AAs for this reason.  A person who had the time to crank out all those AA points had a much stronger character than someone who didn't.  Even if this new advancement idea they're putting in is different, I'm afraid its still going to end up with the same scenario of raiding guilds requiring people to have a certain amount of advancements based on how much stronger their character is going to be.</span><span></span><div></div>

[King Leor]

<div>I LOVE the idea of AA's, it simply sets the hardcore gamers aside from the casual players. It's just like those who raid now, generally they have the better gear than the casual players do. But once you've done everything and killed everything etc. It will be nice to have more stuff to go and do. Assuming it will be like EQ 1. But I have the feeling it wont be.</div><div> </div><div>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</div>

[Jay]

<div></div><div>While I'm generally not in favor of anything that increases the gap between players, the AA system would just take the existing dynamic a step further.  EQ2 is about time invested, plain and simple - there's not a whole heck of a lot of skill involved, just a matter of how much of you life you want to sink into a video game. If you're willing to play every day for five or six hours a day, you're going to be better equipped and more powerful than someone who plays a few times a week for a couple hours. That doesn't make the hardcore player any 'better' at the game than the casual player, just means they spend more time harvesting, grinding, farming, and raiding. So it sounds like AA's would just extend that by making the time invested affect your actual abilities, not just your equipment, spell upgrades, etc.</div><div> </div><div>As for raiding guilds requiring a certain amount of AA levels - I guess that's really no different than saying "recruiting level 60 defilers, illusionists, and assassins." Doesn't affect me much b/c I doubt I'll ever start looking to join a raiding guild anyway. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><div>Hehe, you're both wrong. AA's began at 51. They were the equivalent of going through the entire level 51 all over again. I remember because I spent a marathon session grinding my druid to 51 during the Luclin expansion, which introduced AAs, because I really really really wanted to play with AAs.</div><div> </div><div>My whole beef with AAs was this. As AAs became more powerful and imbalancing to the game, content was trivialized by them. The developers in EQ1 started to design content strictly around the top tier of people, those who both raided Time *and* had 300+ AAs.  No longer was content just escalating based on gear, which while you wouldn't do as well as raiders, you could still manage in the new areas, but these extremely powerful AAs where some could take ages to grind out because you needed all the prereqs.</div><div> </div><div>GoD was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of people. Zone in, you're level 65, you do decently well in PoP zones, and a level 45 nothing can just wipe the floor with you. You're killing blue mobs at a good pace a lot of times by yourself in PoP, yet these majorly green bean (green was the no-xp color in EQ1) mobs can kick your butt?</div><div> </div><div>The devs eventually retuned the expansion zones to not be so horrifically iimpossible to survive in. AAs are great in theory, but when problems like that develop, they become far too game breaking.</div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">01-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:41 PM</span></p>

[TaleraRis]

<div>Oh, and as for epics, so long as they're not raid-only, I wouldn't mind the addition of them.</div><div> </div><div>I'll miss my snake stick, though. Not the ugly giant eyeball stick that was 1.5, but the nifty cobra head one that just screamed to everyone "I am an enchanter!" and which gave you yummy haste.</div>

[Te]

<div></div><p>This adapting to top tier allready happened.</p><p> </p><p>Not much a person that doesnt buy bot coin or is in a raiding guild can do as easily as a person that been raiding a lot and gained a lot of masters of the right kind or a person that bought plat.</p><p> </p><p>What soe needs to do if they introduce the aa's is maybe to have min amount of people allowed to enter a instance, make the instance scale in difficulty and reward somewhat  like SP instances. (both for raid instances and one group instances)</p><p>For mobs in general zones they need the contesteds to scale too so a top tier player wouldnt think much of taking down a [Removed for Content] named while for another player that named would have a nice reward.</p><p>Generall exp mobs they dont need to adjust to top tier people at all. They will be slaughtered by top tier raiding people anyway no matter what so why make em harder than needed.</p><p> </p><p>Anyway thats just some thoughts on the fly on the subject.</p>

[TaleraRis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tevf wrote:<div></div><p>This adapting to top tier allready happened.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Not to the extent I'm talking about. You're going to do better now in better gear with higher ranks of spells. However, you can still survive the content with lesser gear and a bit lower ranking of spells. You won't do it as easily, but it's doable. EQ1 got to the point after Time that you basically were required to raid Time, have gear from Time and have all the essential AAs for your class or you just shouldn't even bother with new content because you couldn't survive there.I never want to see that happen with EQ2, and if it does, I'll just go back to my 68 enchanter because it would be just like continuing on the same path.</span><div></div>

[Te]

<div></div><p>It happened to the extent thats it not much use to go to any propper t6 raidinstance if you dont have good gear allready.</p><p>Allthough GoD was the crappiest expansion ever I must admit<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dyr]

<div>Well I had cancelled both my accounts but may come back to check out the AA's and see if the loot is any better. I play a very different ranger, one hander and shield, defense orienated gear ( passive +10 defense, +165 vs crush, pierce, slash) backed up by my dual box mystic I can be one helluva tank in certain situations and as a duo can take alot of named mobs, with LIMITATIONS tho, and if i can grind out AA's while farming named mobs and instance zones to improve my tanking to take on tougher and tougher mobs then this game could become alot more interesting.</div><div> </div><div>But in a defensive set-up my damage suffers some so then do I gear defensive and go with offensive aa's or go back to dual wield and take defensive aa's ?</div><div> </div><div>Those kind of discussions and decisions are what made eq1 rangering fun (gimped as we were) and in my final setup with a nice mix of defensive and offensive aa's and LDoN additions to gear became one of the most sought out LDoN tanks (awesome aggro ability plus snares and good damage ) on the server ..... and given I was not a high end raider but still making a name fer one's self was a blast and aa's did that.</div><div> </div><div>So if i can create a ranger in that style with a mix of abilities and carve out a niche as an insatnce zone tank / damage dealer that would be a reason to stay and play.</div><div> </div><div>Sure the exclusive clubs willl become more exclusive and thats a downside BUT if they only would give us small guild/grp sttyle of play people some cool loot and quests (we have plenty of mobs to kill) that I would be proud to equip I ' ll stick around another year or so</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Nak]

well, know your all mostly thinking of AA's from eq, but could be possible a CM ( class mastery) system from EQOA:frontiers, could always be set into place, in which each class could sub divide between 4 more different classes ( archtype, race, and 2 class spec) now i doubt sony would end up giving each sub class its own additional subclass but anything could be possible <span>:smileyvery-happy: think ranger on eqoa could become a forester or a hunter, forester was more defensive/solo while hunter was high dmg power draining offensive...all lvl abils would be the same, except at lvl 60 with one of the choices you'd get 2 special selection abilities...but from what i remeber while they were optional to get and recommended, they were still a pain the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and a 1/2, like AA's</span><div></div>

[TaleraRis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tevf wrote:<div></div><p>It happened to the extent thats it not much use to go to any propper t6 raidinstance if you dont have good gear allready.</p><p>Allthough GoD was the crappiest expansion ever I must admit<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>You're still focusing on raiding, though. I mean normal, vanilla content supposedly designed for people in their 40s to xp in. That was ludicrously tuned and it was because the whole of GoD, not just the raiding parts, was designed to cater to the top tier of players, who were in the minority, which is why they were the top tier of players.Raiders raid, and non raiders don't. Non raiders don't care about raiding content or the difficulty of it. It's when raiding starts to interfere with our ability to even progress in the game that we start to take issue with it.Oh and Dyrks, rangers were my abosolute favorite tanks in LDoNs. Well equipped and talented rangers could wipe the floor with stuff in there and we would zoom through them, wait the time limit, then grab another and zoom through that.  Much love for ranger tanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[ErikShaf]

<div></div>1) Having an Endless Quiver ability will have a giant effect on the game and mostly us Rangers.  After the release of Luclin and the EP bows in EQ1, combined with EQ, Rangers were screwed. Ever since then the Rangers havn't gotten any outstanding abilities that make them shine because the devs hate EQ. It has been discussed many'a times, and though I can not get the resources to show you quotes, it is all true. I even wrote a 6-page singled spaced thread on the EQ1 Ranger forums about how the class needs to get a revamp or something, and it still gets bumped now and then sadly. If we should get anything that has to deal with 'free arrows' or a quiver ability, they should have this: An ability where you have a 2-5% (more "points" more percent? depending on how the system works) you get a 'freebie' arrow. That means if you shoot an arrow you have a small, very small, percent chance the arrow will still be there. Any more than 5% is overpowered. ( I got this idea from the template I made for if you were the Chosen of Solonor in Dungeons and Dragons: Forgotten Realms. Yes I am a huge geek <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )2) I'd LOVE to see the return of the Trueshot bow. Of course it would be best to mimic the original where you get all the parts and then you fletch the result. Even if you arn't a fletcher artisan, it would just be a level 9 combine or something silly. That would add some flavor!3) If we got the original epics I wouldn't mind seeing the Swifwind and Earthcaller again despite how our DPS is really our bow. But that'd be awesome seeing those two again... oh sweet lightning graphics. I remember getting mine when it was semi-new, man I felt like I was king of the Rangers for a while. Having our Earthcaller was pretty bad-A too, camped about 40+ hours for mine. Of course if we had epics.. that'd be pretty awesome if it was actuallly the Trueshot bow. Actually that would be fantastic! Maybe make Swifty and EC quests for Rangers additonally. yes.. yes.. the ideas! *foams*3) I just hope this is like a branch system where we have different paths to go down, and you can't choose'em all like you could in EQlive. I love being unique, but of course I hope they are balanced.4) Just don't overpower or underpower Rangers, because I love where we are!Yes I've been posting around my Server forums too. I guess I just have a lot of expectations and wishes for this new expansion. Despite how early it is coming out I hope it makes it up!<div></div><p>Message Edited by ErikShafer on <span class="date_text">01-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:01 AM</span></p>

[Darice]

<div></div><div>----------------------------------</div><div>But it did mess up the balance a bit and it and kinda hurt the fletchers, not that tradeskilling plays that big a role in EQ1 anyway.</div><div>---------------------------------</div><div> </div><div>On eq2  we  buy our arrows from (non player)  merchants or  make our own..... ( most anyway)   so how could it hurt  having an endless quiver?</div><div> </div><div>On eq1.... most ranger made their own  arrows and bows...  not many bought off other players.</div><div> </div><div>So I fail to see how this would hurt anyone.... as for other classes.... they can  always build a ranger.... if they feel the need to  own the endless quiver. :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div>I would rather see  arrows with damage.... in fire , ice,   magic,  poison etc.... I would spend endless AA   for that....  even quest..... hell I  would take up trade skill if i had to for it.... and I hate  trade skilling...:smileyhappy::smileyvery-happy:  Having an Endless Quiver only makes  sence to a ranger!!!!!</div><div> </div><div>Skyra</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Darice on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:41 PM</span></p>

[TaleraRis]

Ahhhh necro post! Kill it! Kill it!<div></div>

[Ronin]

Actually, if anyone cared to look, the NDA for beta gamers is lifted and some info on AA's is trickling into the forums now.Skill tree will setup for AA's like this STR, AGI, STA, WIS, and INT tree.5 tree's with seperate abilities and buffs etc. There is one on Community news forum for Illusionists now, looks nice.Seems they take each general aspect of the STR      AGI etc and give them a few powers in each, offering improvement to existing combat arts and spells. Or some totaly new skills also.Looks like a nice lineup for Illusionists, pretty much offers some good, some not so good choices in each tree, but like they said, you can master 1 tree or spread out your points.Might be good for rangers to look at STR and INT tree's seeing this is where the most dmg oriented ones come from, plus the first skill in each tree seems to be bonuses in that tree's stat. Like STR tree for chanters is 4str per rank of the chosen first slot in that skill tree. Looks like they max at 4 ranks per option per tree also, with max of 1 rank for the final skill of the tree. So possible 5 tree with 5 skill options per tree, with 4 ranks for first 4 and 1 for last, making it total 17 AA points to master 1 skill tree, but I'm also guessing its like EQ1 1 point for first rank, 2 for next, 3 for next and 4 for last probably, and need atleast 1 rank to gain access to the next skill of the tree etc. But just guessing on this part. The ranks and skill and tree's are correct as per the screenshot given in the Community News forum.<div></div>

[Gnome mercy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dubbs wrote:<div></div>I didn't play a high level ranger in EQ1, what problem did endless quiver cause?<hr></blockquote><p>the devs stated shortly after OoW came out that adding in endless quiver was a huge mistake for 1 reason, it was known as AM3, aka archery mastery 3, improved bow damage bigtime, meaning with the new bows keep comin out, well any ranger could hit for 2-3k easy and crit for nearly 5-6k and that wasnt even close to time geared</p><p>hm, how do we say this, overpowered, plus with cobalt arrows and the better arrows comin out soon any ranger could hit for 1k easy plus poison and offensive stance proc, and with infinite of those well, they would then again put rangers back on top with noone else near them, then they would need to nerf again.</p><p>To sum it up, soe might be stupid in some ways, but they arent dumb enough to make the same mistake twice.</p>