Total Lack of Respect by Group members

[BedlamX]

<DIV>I have a little story about hidden cashe instance zone.  A group consisting of 3 healers ranging from lvl 50 -52 a Tank lvl 51 and myself all head to HC we start clearing mobs as usual we get to a couple of names and proceeded to take them down fairly easy. At this point being a 59th ranger I am not using my full abilities as of yet so I dont pull agro from the tank. Everything is going well other than the occasional comment from one of the healers that the zone is easy (He being a 50th Fury mind you basically riding my shirt tale). We get to the Master Thief, the Tank pulls next thing I know his health is down to 50% give or take (pretty much 1 shot from the master thief) I wait 5 more seconds for the healers to do their job and for the tank to get alittle more agro - then I unleash Hitting him with hidden shot (master 2) then improved survail I follow up with snipers shot ( adept 3) again I remove hate from myself I proceed to scroll through my CA's until I get to my last one Stream of Arrow's ( Adept 3) and as you all know this CA will lock you into place until canceled or complete. Durring my onslaught I pull agro from the tank and finish off the master thief. Not but 2 seconds go by while I am canceling stream of arrows and the chest explodes doin 2000 dmg to me and the rest of the group. So I ask "why didnt ya just wait for me"  The Tank responds - we were tired of waiting for you to get out of your coma. So the lvl 50 healer proceeds to again comment on how it was so easy and he proceeded to thank the tank for his excellent work "WHAT". Here's what I dont get. How is it that I do 24353 dmg over the course of this one fight ( Granted quite abit was produced by the poison) the tank dam near dies and I get a comment about being in a coma,  take 2000 dmg for my trouble and not thanked by a healer who would have gotten his ars spalttered all over the place if it weren't for the RANGER.  There is a lack of respect given to rangers - everybody wants to praise the tank for holding agro everybody want to praise the healer for keeping us alive and no one has ever commented on how the ranger shortens a fight so the healer can do his job without losing all of his power and so the tank doesnt have to hold agro for an hour.  We simply arent respected for what we bring to the table.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the Vent </DIV> <DIV>BedlamX</DIV>

[Fennir]

<div></div>I don't group with [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s.  You shouldn't either. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Fennir on <span class=date_text>12-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:08 AM</span>

[GrayStorm]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>[Removed for Content] welcome to ranger life.  It's a thankless job.  And if you're grouped with a wizard he'll get the kudos for doing all the damage, and probably Amends too.  Never mind the fact that any ranger worth his salt will out dps a wizard on 99% of the mobs in the game.  </P> <P>This is, yet again, just one more reason why I don't typically group with people outside of my guild.</P> <P>I remember once, back in they day, I was in an instance with a wiz and myself as the only dps.  I got so sick of them pouring all the praise on him... even telling him he was amazing for dmg that my CA's were doing, that I bailed.  I said something like, "well, it looks like you guys can handle this without me, I have to go".   Shortly therefter I got a tell from one of the group members that they wiped on the very next mob.  </P> <P>I don't care about being the best, but let's give credit where credit is due.</P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Zutan]

I try to not group with idiots.. I just take pride that when I fire my bow the mobs health "jumps" lower where as the whole rest of the groups DPS sort of gradually lowers the health.  Of course I also get to increase my list of "tanks that dont taunt" when I fire my bow 1 time and I get agro... <div></div>

[Crychtonn]

You should be happy they ignored your contribution.  If they did recognize it they'd probably try and get you nerf'd.  Please go see the 1000000 current threads covering this topic.

[Taeolen]

<DIV>Still not as bad as the early days of EQ1. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Being in a zone and hearing someone shout, "TRAIN INC TO ENTRANCE OUTTA THE WAY! WOMEN AND RANGERS FIRST!"  :smileysad:</DIV>

[Jay]

<P>/shrug</P> <P>That sucks that you had some tools in a group. I get plenty of respect, as do most rangers I know. You had a single bad experience with what, four other players? That's hardly emblematic of how our whole class gets treated at all tiers on all servers. I don't think this has anything to do with your class, it has to do with the people you grouped with. I'm fortunate enough that I never group with pickups, but if I were in that situation I'd just ride it out, finish the instance, and disband once we zoned out. You don't need drama or a big showdown, just leave politely and make a note to yourself so you don't group with them anymore. </P>

[Khevy]

<DIV>I was in a situation like that.  A group was complaining I let the mob get almost half health gone before I attacked.  Then they saw why I was holding back when I took aggro from them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just make it a point to steal aggro if I feel like it, then they know who is boss.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I stay mostly with guild teams though.  Hell they give me crap if I don't one shot a green when we are traveling to a hunting spot.</DIV>

[VisualFoundry]

<P>I tend not to stay long in groups where people are assigning blame for aggro problems. It's not the duty of any one person to ensure aggro stays on the tank - on the contrary, it's the duty of every member of the group to know his/her class and know what is necessary for his/her part in aggro management. Those who assign blame for aggro problems would usually be better served by understanding what the cause of the aggro problem was and then suggesting a means of rectifying the problem. </P> <P>Interestingly enough, I've found Stream of Arrows to be a great benefit when I'm in a group and the mt dies. Assuming there isn't a secondary tank, I generally then go to defensive stance and engage Stream of Arrows, as well as dropping all aggro reduction. This usually results in me holding aggro until either the fight is over or the mt is rezzed. </P>

[DotC0m]

<DIV>HAIL THE RANGER *twink</DIV>

[coltla]

<blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<P>/shrug</P> <P>That sucks that you had some tools in a group. I get plenty of respect, as do most rangers I know. You had a single bad experience with what, four other players? That's hardly emblematic of how our whole class gets treated at all tiers on all servers. I don't think this has anything to do with your class, it has to do with the people you grouped with. I'm fortunate enough that I never group with pickups, but if I were in that situation I'd just ride it out, finish the instance, and disband once we zoned out. You don't need drama or a big showdown, just leave politely and make a note to yourself so you don't group with them anymore. </P><hr></blockquote>I agree, I went with a guild group to Poets last night, 3 people commented on the DPS and how much faster the mobs droped. It was one of the proudest times for me as a ranger. :smileyhappy:P.S. I had logged to check on an order I had made, lining up adept IIIs for my next few levels, as soon as I logged I had several tells inviting me. Then I got a fabled item, and a master droped for a class that was not with us, and the group discussed who to GIVE the master too. I have never had more pride for my self or my guild then after that run through Poets.

[valer]

<DIV>Hey there everyone.  I'm only lvl 35 and I've only had 1 group where where I wasn't appreciated.  Basically the tank died, both casters died after using AoE which we told them not too, and there was myself and the healer left.  I was down to 25% health as the named MoB came after me when the tank died, and then I evac'd me and the hearler outa there.  Then I caught heat saying I shouldn't have evac'd we could've taken em.  But other than that one situation I've got a pretty good rep as a DPS toon.  I regularly get tells asking me to join groups from people I've grouped with before as soon as I log on, even when I'm not /lfg.  I always liked being a ranger, even in EQ1.  I stay humble, do my job, grab loot when I can and just keep on trucking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also on a side note, when I was still lvl 34 I was MT for a group in RoV.  This was hilarious, I had no problems keeping aggro cause of the open CA's I was using to pull.  High comedy, nobody in the group had any idea how it was working, but it was.  Rangers the all purpose, DPS/ Tank <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sirlutt]

yeah you got a bumm group i'd say .. i get nothing but praise for my ability to rip strips from anything yellow or less .. i use legendary poisons all the time (hit for 450+ per proc) and can unleash a massive amount of damage..  the best part is grouping with someone new who hasnt seen us at work yet..  blows them away.. lol..I am always the hate battery for our pally tank.. amends on me guarantee's he wont lose agro (unless its to me.. lol)<div></div>

[Merkad]

Lol, this was a funny post, but because I can empathize with it. The number of times I have been in guild groups (I do not group with outsiders often..as in maybe once a month, if even) where all DPS but myself get praised for killing the mobs. Or where they ask "who should I give x buff to, for maximum dps". Since I like my fellow guildies, and am not too worried about where they think I stand, I just say to give it to the swashy/brigand who ever other than me.this is also the case with assauge and amends, which would be nice, but I don't mind that too much either.Anyways.. You should just solo hidden cache anyways, you don't need other people's help. At least I would think not. Using adeste's and phantasmic visions, you should be able to kill the named before they get to you with minimal luck, and even if they do get to you, shortly after they should die to stream. The loot, even non master, will cover the poison costs.Merkades.

[Radgen]

I've got the opposite problem.  I can;t find groups now cause all my guildy;'s are starting rangers:smileysurprised:

[Grimda]

<P>I haven't found lack of respect at all but I enjoyed your story.  I have a 60 wizard and am building up a 26 ranger after I was getting frequently out-dpsed.  I love the fast-paced action of the ranger and dealing steady, massive dps.  Playing my wizard feels like slow-motion now; hopefully wizard gets fixed but meanwhile I'm enjoying the contrast. </P> <P>Anyways, regarding the ranger respect issue.  Since I turned ranger at 20, when I broadcast that I'm ranger lfg I get  hit with multiple invites within the minute.  This is consistent for me day or night.  I used to run around with my lfg flag w/ my wiz for a while.  When I group I usually get "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]; your dps is insane" and "(mob dying so fast) cause ranger just joined up" The ranger is the royalty of dps right now and most everyone on the server knows it or is discovering it.  Also, playing dps is never thankless; tank and healer are boring jobs and we should thank them profusely for letting us have our fun! my 2 cents</P> <P>Ewiin<BR>Butcherblock Evil<BR>26 Ranger</P>

[Te]

<P>Long time since I felt I got disrespect in a group but then again I dont get offended easy.</P> <P> </P> <P>If I find someone offensive I usually say "ok whatever" or something then carry on. After a while people start to realize that there is no point in it and things fade out.</P> <P> </P> <P>If im a good utility in dps or whatever they notice it while im with them. When im gone from the game for a few days and come back they ask me "hey dude where you been?" or something like that.</P> <P>There is no need for me to prove myself, I play ranger to the best of my ability and people notice it and I dont care if they dont notice it right away. Im glad if a person thinks hes doing great and not only me doing great. Its what makes this the only game I play, the social part. I play together with others and not alone behind a computor.</P>

[xandez]

Lol, funny story the OP wrote... well, kinda <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Grouping with bunch of idiots is not fun... If a group has 3 healers and a tank, how the hell would they think of getting mobs hammered down without some decent DPS from atleast 1 party member? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Sigh, well atleast i know im doing ok in the DPS department and if someone is not appreciating that while grouping with me, well... i'd prolly leave the group and let em enjoy their uberness w/o my presence.++Xan<div></div>

[Garfield]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BedlamX wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have a little story about hidden cashe instance zone.  A group consisting of 3 healers ranging from lvl 50 -52 a Tank lvl 51 and myself all head to HC we start clearing mobs as usual we get to a couple of names and proceeded to take them down fairly easy. At this point being a 59th ranger I am not using my full abilities as of yet so I dont pull agro from the tank. Everything is going well other than the occasional comment from one of the healers that the zone is easy (He being a 50th Fury mind you basically riding my shirt tale). We get to the Master Thief, the Tank pulls next thing I know his health is down to 50% give or take (pretty much 1 shot from the master thief) I wait 5 more seconds for the healers to do their job and for the tank to get alittle more agro - then I unleash Hitting him with hidden shot (master 2) then improved survail I follow up with snipers shot ( adept 3) again I remove hate from myself I proceed to scroll through my CA's until I get to my last one Stream of Arrow's ( Adept 3) and as you all know this CA will lock you into place until canceled or complete. Durring my onslaught I pull agro from the tank and finish off the master thief. Not but 2 seconds go by while I am canceling stream of arrows and the chest explodes doin 2000 dmg to me and the rest of the group. So I ask "why didnt ya just wait for me"  The Tank responds - we were tired of waiting for you to get out of your coma. So the lvl 50 healer proceeds to again comment on how it was so easy and he proceeded to thank the tank for his excellent work "WHAT". Here's what I dont get. How is it that I do 24353 dmg over the course of this one fight ( Granted quite abit was produced by the poison) the tank dam near dies and I get a comment about being in a coma,  take 2000 dmg for my trouble and not thanked by a healer who would have gotten his ars spalttered all over the place if it weren't for the RANGER.  There is a lack of respect given to rangers - everybody wants to praise the tank for holding agro everybody want to praise the healer for keeping us alive and no one has ever commented on how the ranger shortens a fight so the healer can do his job without losing all of his power and so the tank doesnt have to hold agro for an hour.  We simply arent respected for what we bring to the table.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the Vent</DIV> <DIV>BedlamX</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know the feeling, nobody in my guild (I group with them 99% of the time along with raiding) realizes what kind of DPS we do, let alone appreciate it =(  I always put up with things like our healer telling the paladin to put amends on them because the ranger's "expendable" ... or on the rare occasion they do admire the DPS being done, the compliments go to the mages. I was recently told by a guildy that sorcerors and rogues are our DPS superiors. Where they got this idea I don't know, I usually end up on top in parses. Our other ranger uses almost pure melee though, they usually use him as an example too :smileysad:

[Blackin_DeMast]

That's why i hat PU groups.  I almost always group with guildies or I solo.  Guildies are awesome because we all appreciate eachother and our repsective roles.  Shameless plug:  Go Fools and Heros on Toxxulia!!!  =D

[Deml]

<P>I can sympathize a bit.  Before the combat changes I was hearing a constant barrage of ranger jokes from my guild, on a nightly basis.  A couple weeks after the combat changes when my guild leader and a few others realized what Rangers could do that slowly started changing.  When we had "sacrificial pulls" and people would say "send the ranger!" to which my guild leader would say no, we need to keep the Ranger alive, he's too valuable DPS to lose.  About 3-4 times of him saying that and the ranger jokes pretty much died, well, that and people posting parses of fights showing wizards they had some competition.</P> <P>You just found a bad group, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Most people know what Ranger's can do, even if they don't openly comment on it to you.  The fact that there are lot of folks rolling up Rangers now (something I really dislike) shows you something.</P>

[NovacaineExpre]

<DIV>IMHO, the ranger class is the best single-target DPS class in the game.  If played right and having decent gear, the ranger can not only deal a great amount of damage, but can also manage agro very well.  On a recent raid, I was parsing out at around 900 DPS on average per encounter and hit over 1k a few times w/o getting agro once.  But yet many of my friends/guild mates still make fun of us.  /shrug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Askol ~ 60 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Lucan D'Lere</DIV>

[BedlamX]

I apperciate all of the feedback on this issue. Perhaps this was a an isolated instance with a group who doesnt know, really anything. But that comment about the coma enraged me and I looked up and screamed "GOD I WISH THIS WAS PVP" I couldnt hold it in. The cats jumped. I started typing the only thing stoping me from naming names was the fact that I still have some pride in my class. who knows perhaps I will meet them in battle in the future.BedlamX

[Jay]

<DIV>It's very simple: /disband, /duel.  Make sure to apply stun poisons first, just for the added humiliation.</DIV>

[Deml]

To add to Jay's comment....cheap shot, improved surveil, sniper shot, move up to his head /dance.

[NovacaineExpre]

<P>Also, take some screenshots of when you solo scornfeather roost and make sure they see them then ask who is worthless :smileytongue:</P> <P> </P> <P>Askol ~ 60 Ranger</P> <P>Lucan D'Lere</P>

[Saihung23]

Too funny Jay42 and Demlar...too too funny.  I have yet to duel...but now I know when to do it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Sai <div></div>

[Jay]

<P>It's a toss-up: use Sniper's Shot and insta-kill your opponent for lotsa laughs, or allow them to believe they have a chance for a few seconds and avoid the inevitable bad press that results from a display of our abilities. </P> <P>I may change my in-game surname to "Nerfbait" just for S&Gs.</P>

[Frobus]

It's best to ignore the random idiots you get in pick up groups.  This game actually has fairly few total morons, but they are out there.  Heck, one time I had a swashbuckler telling me it was impossible to stealth in combat.  Rangers do great damage...probably the best single target damage in the game.  Your best bet is to ignore them, heck...EMBRACE them...maybe I'll get buffed because I "suck" so much. <div></div>

[Spike]

That story is funny, when I do roost with our ranger i am always telling him to solo the named since it's such a great sight to behold.  Rangers are one of if not the best dps class in the game and people need to realize that.

[XBr]

<span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div>I have a little story about hidden cashe instance zone.  A group consisting of 3 healers ranging from lvl 50 -52 a Tank lvl 51 and myself all head to HC we start clearing mobs as usual we get to a couple of names and proceeded to take them down fairly easy. At this point being a 59th ranger I am not using my full abilities as of yet so I dont pull agro from the tank. Everything is going well other than the occasional comment from one of the healers that the zone is easy (He being a 50th Fury mind you basically riding my shirt tale). We get to the Master Thief, the Tank pulls next thing I know his health is down to 50% give or take (pretty much 1 shot from the master thief) I wait 5 more seconds for the healers to do their job and for the tank to get alittle more agro - then I unleash Hitting him with hidden shot (master 2) then improved survail I follow up with snipers shot ( adept 3) again I remove hate from myself I proceed to scroll through my CA's until I get to my last one Stream of Arrow's ( Adept 3) and as you all know this CA will lock you into place until canceled or complete. Durring my onslaught I pull agro from the tank and finish off the master thief. Not but 2 seconds go by while I am canceling stream of arrows and the chest explodes doin 2000 dmg to me and the rest of the group. So I ask "why didnt ya just wait for me"  The Tank responds - we were tired of waiting for you to get out of your coma. So the lvl 50 healer proceeds to again comment on how it was so easy and he proceeded to thank the tank for his excellent work "WHAT". Here's what I dont get. How is it that I do 24353 dmg over the course of this one fight ( Granted quite abit was produced by the poison) the tank dam near dies and I get a comment about being in a coma,  take 2000 dmg for my trouble and not thanked by a healer who would have gotten his ars spalttered all over the place if it weren't for the RANGER.  There is a lack of respect given to rangers - everybody wants to praise the tank for holding agro everybody want to praise the healer for keeping us alive and no one has ever commented on how the ranger shortens a fight so the healer can do his job without losing all of his power and so the tank doesnt have to hold agro for an hour.  We simply arent respected for what we bring to the table.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for the Vent </div> <div>BedlamX</div><hr></blockquote>I generally keep combatstats running at all times and post the parses to group chat if there's any confusion about where the dps is coming from. It quiets them down. Although I rarely get problems like you had, so I don't have to do that very often.</span><div></div>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<P>i have sorcs telling me after a few fights: ya can really notice when styxxey is here! He totally pulverises the mobs and throws all he has at em (as much as agroe allows)!</P> <P>I join groups all the time even tho we are great solists and i love soloing i enjoy the company of others from time to time aswell! </P> <P>Let me tell yall a story about a group invite...</P> <P>So once upon a time there was a crazy ranger named Styxxey on splitpaw, minding his own bussiness harvesting around and just killing whoever bothered him (mobs) while doing it.</P> <P>He was a jolly fellow but quite ferocious aswell and the harvesting started boring him so he popped up the flag and stated LFG!</P> <P>Quite unknown to the desert and the people living in it, it took a while b4 he got an invite to go do something. But eventually he got into a group to do Ancient Table His fellow adventurers were divers and consisted of a nuke happy wizzy / a jealous warlock / a unsympatic assasin a goodloooking defiler and a Zerker who has never lost agroe in all his 59 lvls ever!</P> <P>So the crazy Styxxey agreed and set forth towards Pillars of the flame where his groupmates were waiting in swiftriders camp to endure the adventure!</P> <P>Once we were all gathered we popped invis and head out to AT (invis totem etc) once there it seemed the handle on the door was missing! I looked upon the assasin to cough it up since its the nature of the beast to steal things and kill to get them......He looked at me and told me it was not him who took it, it could have been one of the evil cyclops around!</P> <P>So my group then decided to take on these vile beasts to get them to return the handle to this instance so we can vanquish whatever is inside!</P> <P>At that point i got a phonecall and had to AF on someone so i did and notified them with my afk tag and last statement of :"phone" Af on assasin!</P> <P>So while i was on the phone i saw my group struggling against these foes the zerker holding agroe the defiler keeping him up wihtout trouble and the DPS section burning through the mobs altough gradually!</P> <P>Now i returned from the phonecall and we proceeded since the handle to enter the instance was still not found! So heres what happened I activated my best poisons Zerker pulled i gave him and the other DPS boyz time to get it to 70% the others asked why arent you attacking?</P> <P>I said i fear pulling agroe so i wait a while then the mob dropped to 60% and i unleashed and after just a few attacks the mob died at the zerkers feet! Tauntingly the zerker told me that he has never lost agroe yet and that i should let it rip after his first HO went off so i did!</P> <P>The next mob zerker pulled he went HO advanced it and taunted again! So i started to shoot my bow and as the zerker said I let it rip three attacks later the mob was in red and on me! </P> <P>The group was amazed! But most of all the zerker was amazed about him losing agroe for the first time of his career! He said what did ya do? I said i let it rip like you said right after the HO was complete! </P> <P>The warlock now was jealous of the ranger instead of the wizzy </P> <P>The wizzy said well at least we notice yer here not like the assasin</P> <P>The assasin said well i am supposed to be unnoticeable so its all good!</P> <P>The defiler went maybe the ranger should be MT if he can produce so much hate on inc!</P> <P>The zerker said well just do yer crazy stuff as long as noone dies it dont matter who has agroe i guess!</P> <P>So i went my crazy merry way while these characters spread the word about me being great DPS and everytime i put my tag LFG on in the desert i end up getting an invite in about 5-15 min or so!</P> <P>So to all who do not feel appreciated know this: "You know what you are capable off and what you are supposed to do in groups", if people dont see this or appreciate it thats fine means we dont get nerfed if they do thats fine too that means we get groups easier (which we dont really need but is still nice)!</P> <P>Greetz Tha Cwazy Styxxey!</P>

[scl]

Ah, don't worry too much guys, the people who know a little about whats going on know how much a Ranger is worth. Coming from the perspective of a guild tank, it's not the casters I worry about losing aggro to *winks*