Agroe control about paladins (amends)

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<DIV>Styxxey here with some Questions about amends!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have asked these Questions on the paladin forum aswell but i am hoping i might get some responses here aswell</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is regarding Amends which is a paladin hate transfer spell that gives them 41% hate transfer from the target they have put it on to them!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now i ussually get stuck with it after a few pulls or if the tank knows me even b4 we pull anything, but somehow i still pull agroe of the paladin occasionally!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now my questions are these:</DIV> <DIV>1. Do i stop detaunting and go all out to give him more hate (will cause me to pull agroe of him occasionaly)</DIV> <DIV>2. Do i keep my detaunt buff up or will this also reflect the caused hate back on amends?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the mage has the buff on him i almost always pull agroe with 177 St adeste poison (400 proc at 25%) ad 3 archers frenzy (400 proc at 30%) and ad 3 primal agility 48% detaunt buff!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even if i wait till the mob is to 80% and i start nuking there its insane! Even worse if i got a guardian or a zerker tank tanking for me. Now a monk did pretty well b4 for me but...a troub had a detaunt buff on me aswell so not sure if that counts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had these issues b4 when i was around lvl 25/40 when i went past 40 it started getting less of a problem but from 55 to 60 the problem popped back up agian! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plz help me out (again sigh)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Styxxey Summerblaze 60 ranger of Splitpaw</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<P>amends should never be on a sucky mage when a scout is in group, except maybe bards</P> <P>also if you get amends, disable all your detaunt buffs, and dont cast evade etc either, the agro you gain is basically taunting for the pally, you can go all out, he can almost go afk and still hold agro</P>

[The_Wind]

Amends is a great skill, but like you surmized, you need to turn off, and stop using all your detaunts.  Amends works by transferring 41% of ALL aggro, good or bad, to the paladin.  So each tmie you evade, or, your primal agility gets rid of some from you, its also removing it from him/her.  So just turn em off and stop using, let the paladin gain aggro for the first 3 seconds and unleash hell.   I've been in a group with a paladin, and paladin would pull, i'd immediately use stream of arrows, and never pull aggro.  If the paladin is good, you can literally go all out and never have to worry. <div></div>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<P>hmm i posted the same post well kinda similar in the paladin forum and they couldnt decide wether i should drop or keep the hate reducers up? </P> <P>Some said keep detaunting with evade etc some said go all out and crazy you never pull agroe....!</P> <P>But yet I do in both ways, there has only been one paladin who only lost agroe to me once!</P> <P>His name is Xavier from splitpaw very good tank the only time he lost it was when his taunt got resisted on the thief on the island in hidden cache and it started bashing me good! so i stunned dropped SOA and just waited to either die or lose agroe to him and at about 10% health the agroe was his again!</P> <P>And with him i never detaunt unless i wanna get a fast stealthy fire off then i drop improved surveil all the other palas have been either average or jsut horrible!</P> <P>Anyways to sum it all up even the paladins didnt exactly know what i should do detaunt or dont detaunt do damage and create agroe was the only thing they were certain about......</P> <P>And someone mentioned the agroe detaunt buff might bug amends.</P> <P>Styxxey Summerblaze</P> <P>PS: ill look into this i need to figure it out!</P>

[nimbus2kgold]

<DIV>I love love love love amends... Both of my favorite tanks are pallys, and they know to automatically give me amends.  I go all out and aggro is theirs.  I never hold back with it.  I do take off Primal Agiliy, never evade, and never surveil (I cast hunt to go invis instead).  There are times when Ive lead off with Sniper Shot, and the pally holds aggro like super glue.  We've use this setup for raids too, where the MT is a pally and I get to be the aggro monkey.  They always have aggro on lock, even if a few of their taunts get resisted it seems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So go all out.  Have fun.  Take off your anti-hate buffs.  Burn the mobs down and be Uber!!  </DIV>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nimbus2kgold wrote:<BR> <DIV>I love love love love amends... Both of my favorite tanks are pallys, and they know to automatically give me amends.  I go all out and aggro is theirs.  I never hold back with it.  I do take off Primal Agiliy, never evade, and never surveil (I cast hunt to go invis instead).  There are times when Ive lead off with Sniper Shot, and the pally holds aggro like super glue.  We've use this setup for raids too, where the MT is a pally and I get to be the aggro monkey.  They always have aggro on lock, even if a few of their taunts get resisted it seems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So go all out.  Have fun.  Take off your anti-hate buffs.  Burn the mobs down and be Uber!!  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>lol never thought as it to be a raid tool ! he he the only plate tanks my guild has are palas! might try this sometime would love to go all out and see what damage i can do on a raid mob!

[hieronym]

<P>grouping with guild pally he calls me his little taunt bot...ahhhhh :smileytongue:</P> <P>On a more serious note and doing a far bit of testing I have come to the conclusion that I can leave my 48 percent aggro reducer up and can still keep the pally in aggro providing you have poison up to aid the DPS and hit hard on the pull, especially when fighting groups of mobs. Against single mobs I always start invis and hit the mob with stealthy fire to get the aggro flowing then i just fire off all my attacks and tank has aggro all the time.  I have even used my sniper shot just after pull and taunt to see what would happen as a bit of a test and pally still kept aggro. (helps a lot if tank has adept3 or master spells) I never use my evasion/elude or surveil spells when fighting.</P> <P>Group encounters is where you need to work a bit harder. On the pull I always start with my AE spells to keep the whole group of mobs on the tank and if there is a member in the group who can do nice AE damage then I tab about between the mobs to put extra aggro on otherwise with the caster's AE DPS a mob might peel off. Again I dont use surveil or evasion/elude while fighting.</P> <P>When I do take off my aggro reducer and use my AE spells I will normally get aggro off a mob when the poison DOT does its damage but a quick elude or surveil and the mob normally peels back to the pally. </P> <P>Key is to work hard and tab around the mobs to stop the AE damage from the others</P>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<DIV>Good advice thx hieronymous,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Altough i already did the tabbing, but am gonna try wiht keeping my detaunt buff up wihtout detaunting during the fight!</DIV>

[dubbs]

Evade and Surviel lower YOUR hate, so once your hate is transferred to a paladin, lowering your hate is not going to take hate away from them.  It has no effect on future hate gain, as this is what is actually being transferred.  Use Them.

[Fennir]

I agree with dubbs. You should also keep Primal Agility on.  I did extensive testing with a paladin this weekend and found that I could direct agro to him much easier with it on than with it off.  Amends seems like its being applied first in the algorithms. <div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<P>I think there was a patch note recently stating something about them fixing Amends.  I know in the past, from alot of expremintation, that Amends did transfer the reduced hate from out aggro reducers.  The fix they mentioned may have changed it so they no longer do that.  It'd be very nice if that is the case and would make it alot easier to not grab aggro.</P> <P>Haven't done much testing with it in raid situations as my guild uses different tactics for keeping aggro on the MT.  Typically on raids myself and the other rangers are hijacked by the Inquisitor's to be their mana batteries.  Funny watching them fight it out when there are more Inquisitors then Rangers :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <P>I think there was a patch note recently stating something about them fixing Amends.  I know in the past, from alot of expremintation, that Amends did transfer the reduced hate from out aggro reducers.  The fix they mentioned may have changed it so they no longer do that.  It'd be very nice if that is the case and would make it alot easier to not grab aggro.</P> <P>Haven't done much testing with it in raid situations as my guild uses different tactics for keeping aggro on the MT.  Typically on raids myself and the other rangers are hijacked by the Inquisitor's to be their mana batteries.  Funny watching them fight it out when there are more Inquisitors then Rangers :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Mana batteries rangers????? explain that one to me plz? i havent raided with my ranger yet!

[Dasanhgul]

I think he means the level 59 Inquisitor spell <STRONG>Chilling Inquest</STRONG>: <EM>An augmentation placed on an ally that grants them a chance at draining power from the target with every successful spell or attack, and returning a portion of this power back to the inquisitor. This spell does not require any concentration, but can only be maintained on a single ally</EM>.

[Crychtonn]

<P>Ya it basically keeps the Inquisitor at 90-100% mana.  If you ever group with a high enough level Inquisitor have them put it on you and they'll never run out of power.  According to my guilds Inquisitors Rangers can create almost twice as much mana for them as any other class.  In raid situations it's funny to see all the other healers struggling to maintain mana while the Inquisitor is just sitting there with 90% plus mana lol.</P> <P> </P>

[King Leor]

<DIV>100% agree with crychtonn, rangers proc alot more due to our high delay on bows so when an Inquiz has that spell on us he's getting power all the time. Making us very battery like, and loved for that matter. As for amends, no idea where they are at with it right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Leoric<BR>Level 60 ranger<BR></DIV>

[brandi7920]

<DIV>You guys never cease to amaze me. I swear I learn new stuff from you guys all the freaking time! I'm really excited to learn about the Inquizzie/Ranger-battery deal. I have a good friend who will be very pleased to learn about that! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Ranja-forum hug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is such a great community.</DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> brandi7920 wrote:<BR> <DIV>You guys never cease to amaze me. I swear I learn new stuff from you guys all the freaking time! I'm really excited to learn about the Inquizzie/Ranger-battery deal. I have a good friend who will be very pleased to learn about that! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Ranja-forum hug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is such a great community.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I completely agree. Very proud to be part of such a great group of people.</P> <P>We actually talked about the Inquest line a few weeks, maybe a month ago. (FWIW, it's actually a spell line, not just available at 59.) I have an inquisitor alt and I learned about this over on their forum - they were discussing the best target for that buff, and the overwhelming consensus was rangers FTW. I filled in a bit more info about our offensive stance and such to help with the details, but they knew that we tend to generate more proc chances for buffs like Inquest than most any other class. </P>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<P>Jay to the rescue, yea thats great to know!</P> <P>Back to agroe tho! The real topic of this thread....</P> <P>I tested my agroe abilities in raids (some easy ones : meathooks / broog ). I read somewhere on thsi forum about an agroe dance during raids and now i got to do it myself (never understood that joke). Anyways i did those raids with diff tank classes.</P> <P>And i believe the tanks are really far apart when it comes to holding agroe let me explain:</P> <P>1. Paladin with ranger in MT group pally had ad 3 amends never lost agroe once! While all were going all out.</P> <P>2. SK was having some trouble holding agroe more or less cause his powerusage was too extensive, did a lot less of a gj then the paladin while dps went all out tho.</P> <P>3. Guardian No chance in hell!</P> <P>4. Zerker No chance in hell!</P> <P>5. Monk / bruiser did a decent job but health was too spikey to really do decent testing.</P> <P>(btw we kept breaking the encounter to try different things b4 it died at 20% or so)</P> <P>I really feel that guardians and zerkers and SK's are being left in the dust and need a hand when it comes to agroe control!</P> <P>or maybe they need more time to buildup hate since it does take them more time!</P> <P>For the SK there is one more thing that might have caused a problem! they do decease /poison debuffs its one or the other cant recall this means warlock nukes hit even harder.......which means they cause more hate then with other tanks........this was evident in a few tests where the warlock would draw agroe b4 a ranger or wizzy and its even single targets! where rangers and wizzies should be king in DPS right?</P> <P>Anyways i really enjoyed the agroe dance i finally comprehend that joke that someone posted elsewhere in thsi forum!</P>

[brandi7920]

<P>Yah, I'm never in the MT group when raiding. I'm usually in a DPS group with a class/classes that can boost our DPS, etc. Usually our MT is a Guardian, I can pull aggro from him very easily. I really really have to pace myself and cut my DPS in order to save my own [Removed for Content]. The other night for the first time, a Pally was the MT. Again, I was not in the MT group, however I was able to let loose and go all out/full stop on my DPS..I never drew aggro ONCE!  It was awesome! </P> <P> </P>

[Crychtonn]

From what I understand from guild Guards and Zerkers is they build hate by getting hit.  So if either are tanking it is alot more important to have the rest of the raid not attack for a good 15-30 seconds.  If you give them the time to build up aggro they can hold it pretty good.  Against a green mob like Meathooks this would be a problem since it'd miss hitting the tank alot.

[brandi7920]

Aye - our usual raid MT will go in a pull the mob and land a few taunts on him before hitting his Agro macro signalling DPS to start in on the mob.

[Centioch]

Thank you guys. I'm a 60 Paladin and I always say, no one can steal aggro from me if I want to keep it - (this is of course, if the dps who has amends on him/her knows to go all out and not go afk for example, that would scew it all up =P )... Appearantly all other tank classes are very jealous of this and constantly nag and lie about how bad pally's are at keeping aggro, even though everyone in my group or raid can go all out at once, and I still keep aggro. By this I am not saying that other classes can't keep aggro, I don't know their classes too well. I'm just saying, give me a dps who can work with me and aggro is mine to keep. I am very glad you guys can confirm this.

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Centioch wrote:<BR>Thank you guys. I'm a 60 Paladin and I always say, no one can steal aggro from me if I want to keep it - (this is of course, if the dps who has amends on him/her knows to go all out and not go afk for example, that would scew it all up =P )... Appearantly all other tank classes are very jealous of this and constantly nag and lie about how bad pally's are at keeping aggro, even though everyone in my group or raid can go all out at once, and I still keep aggro. By this I am not saying that other classes can't keep aggro, I don't know their classes too well. I'm just saying, give me a dps who can work with me and aggro is mine to keep. I am very glad you guys can confirm this. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This post is great! Not sure about the jealous part tho cause they have stuff you dont have etc grass is greener on other side of fence who knows. But well i just think the tanks that are having trouble need a lil love! Just a tad! I think the paladins are the new guardians of norrath now!

[Zutan]

I think people have the wrong idea bout agro control personaly. I always hear people complain about not being able to hold agro. My  39 SK (boxed) can EASILY hold agro on my 50 Ranger.  (if I let him GET agro first) Typically 1 or 2 "taunt" moves per 1 minute of fight is plenty. My Ranger can also "hold" agro vs non-taunt players also, if I get agro First. (not that I typically would want to do this) One "berserker" I frequently hunt with always keeps agro off of me even when I "full burn"... yet other tanks cant seem to do it consistently.. Personally I think its the person using the character that is the problem, not the Class or its abilities. <div></div>

[Paintball33]

<P>primarily a pally here, just browsing for some low lvl ranger info and I feel I should comment. My single taunt, shield bash, and AE taunt were all adept I at the time this event occured and amends was adept III (41%). I was 54 (or 55 dun remember) and invited a ranger the same lvl as me to help the group hunt harpies. I was confident in amends, told the Ranger to take off all "aggro control" items she had on and go all out. She told me she had mostly adept IIIs and a few adept Is, but we did it anyways. That mob died faster than anything I've seen before and I only taunted once.....never lost aggro. It's so much easier to hold aggro with a ranger in the group even. Just let the tank get a taunt or 2, give him just a couple of seconds, and nuke away. If the paladin knows wat he's doin, he SHOULDN"T lose aggro, and if he does we have some excellant recovery techniques, so dont worry about it (rescue and Sigil of Heroism for the most part, plus intercede/wards/heals can help save some ppl).</P> <P>so in answer to your questoin, get rid of all your debuff/transfer things and just use amends, youl'll be fine.</P>

[Saracyn]

<P>My favorite group, one that I group with as often as possible consists of a 60 pally, 60 inquisitor, 60 ranger (me the mana battery, aggro battery) 56 troubador, 60 templar (who gives me the edge i need to be over 420 STR) and a 57 assassin.  I have the duty of doing as many hits and generating as much hate as possible! :smileyvery-happy:  Music to my little wood elf ears!  I use my hate reducers during the fight and our tank never loses aggro.  </P> <P>Although my patience was tried last night in Poets...had a non-guildie conjurer in the group with us (our assassin couldn't join).  Not only wouldn't he wait till the pally taunted, I think he was hitting with his biggest nukes as the tank was thinking about maybe pulling.  As a result he pulled aggro immediately and the tank had to switch amends to the conjurer...what a nightmare...without amends on me I pulled aggro often.  :smileysad:  No matter how many aggro reducing tools I used and how much I held back on my damage output.  Really sucks because i pride myself on being able to control my aggro.  *sigh*  Of course that also affected my mana battery performance.  I guess that just proves to me how effective our little group really is!</P>

[Sulas]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Saracynth wrote:<div></div> <p>My favorite group, one that I group with as often as possible consists of a 60 pally, 60 inquisitor, 60 ranger (me the mana battery, aggro battery) 56 troubador, 60 templar (who gives me the edge i need to be over 420 STR) and a 57 assassin.  I have the duty of doing as many hits and generating as much hate as possible! :smileyvery-happy:  Music to my little wood elf ears!  I use my hate reducers during the fight and our tank never loses aggro.  </p> <p>Although my patience was tried last night in Poets...had a non-guildie conjurer in the group with us (our assassin couldn't join).  Not only wouldn't he wait till the pally taunted, I think he was hitting with his biggest nukes as the tank was thinking about maybe pulling.  As a result he pulled aggro immediately and the tank had to switch amends to the conjurer...what a nightmare...without amends on me I pulled aggro often.  :smileysad:  No matter how many aggro reducing tools I used and how much I held back on my damage output.  Really sucks because i pride myself on being able to control my aggro.  *sigh*  Of course that also affected my mana battery performance.  I guess that just proves to me how effective our little group really is!</p><hr></blockquote>As annoying as that sounds, I do value the times I've found myself in poor groups.  It really helps you appreciate a very good regular group.  I had a weekly group like that in EQ1 and I miss it.  We were an awesome and efficient force. Ahh.  Thanks for the memories. Edit: for clarity </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Sulas on <span class=date_text>12-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[xandez]

Apparently Amends got a slight downgrade... "to be in par with other fighter classes agro holding" yeah right... The resistable taunts are the most annoying. Well, havent had any agro problems if groupoing with a tank atleast 2 lvls higher... hmm maybe my DPS sucks? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Eheh... ++Xan <div></div>

[GrayStorm]

<DIV>A ranger can rip the aggro away from a pali if he goes all out full burn with all the hardest hitting spells and then throws up Stream...  even with amends.  It sucks sometimes.  Through some experimenting I've done it both while using hate reducers and while not.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as Guards not being able to hold aggro I have to disagree.  Like others have posted, you have to give him time to build up aggro before you all start wailing on the mob.  About half way through this initial period while the guard is trying to build aggro I fire confusion arrow and then stop attacking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our guard rarely loses aggro unless it resets... or someone does something stupid </DIV> <DIV>/cough wizards</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I don't get are the people who think that pulling aggro is a good thing... that it somehow makes them special... I just think about Stewart from a popular late night skit comedy show "Hey look what I can do!"...   then the mob turns on him, kills him and runs right back to the tank....  and the rest of us just chuckle hehe.</DIV>

[xandez]

Yah, bruisers tanking single mob encounters have hold to agrro best for me. But, hes my friend so we know each others playstyle etc. and i think that plays a big part of it. Also, noticed that after the CU, guards hold aggro better from me than before... dunno if i managed to group with the bad ones earlier and the good ones now thou <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Still, aggro control needs to be maintained, especially in the lower lvls (or thats what i've noticed) its really easy to rip off agro by just letting it loose. ++Xan<div></div>

[Sollum]

I was in a group last night with a pally as MT, we had a chanter, troublaldor, couple of wardens and me, the only DPS in the group. Pally puts his amends on me and tells me to let rip. (His alt is a level 60 ranger so he knew what's what) I didn't remove any of my buffs nor cast any hate reducing CA's and I never once got agro. We were doing the epic mobs at the top of Cleft of Rujark just going round and round. <DIV>Because we had the chanter who did a good job of mezzing, I didn't use any AE's and as I was the only DPS in the group, the arrows and poisons I went through had me seriously depleted at the end of the session! Good fun though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Beldin_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GrayStorm wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as Guards not being able to hold aggro I have to disagree.  Like others have posted, you have to give him time to build up aggro before you all start wailing on the mob.  About half way through this initial period while the guard is trying to build aggro I fire confusion arrow and then stop attacking.  </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah .. from my experience our guardian still holds better aggro then any pala i know, however he is also a very good player i think cause when we made Rohotep some days ago with a guard from another guild he wasn't even able to hold aggro against the wind-pet of my conjurer :smileymad:<BR>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> GrayStorm wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as Guards not being able to hold aggro I have to disagree.  Like others have posted, you have to give him time to build up aggro before you all start wailing on the mob.  About half way through this initial period while the guard is trying to build aggro <FONT color=#3300ff>I fire confusion arrow</FONT> and then stop attacking.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3300ff>I fear doing that cause i had badluck with it when an SK was tanking for me shoot arrow and somehow it always procced for me and cause even more hate! maybe i am doing something wrong feel free to enlighten me!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Our guard rarely loses aggro unless it resets... or someone does something stupid </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>/cough wizards</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>HAHA wizzies should be the smart ones with over 300 int sometimes even 400 or more!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc33ff>What I don't get are the people who think that pulling aggro is a good thing... that it somehow makes them special... I just think about Stewart from a popular late night skit comedy show "Hey look what I can do!"...   then the mob turns on him, kills him and runs right back to the tank....  and the rest of us just chuckle hehe.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc33ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc33ff>I started this thread to help peeps out with reducing their hate (mostly myself btw) I have practised a lot with not grabbing agroe with several tanks! Some tanks just suck or the player sucks i dunno but if i go all out with a paladin and not grab agroe shouldnt i be able to do the same with the other tanks!? If this is the case then there is imbalance between holding agroe...... I have had really good guardians too but i had to wait at least 15 secs b4 i could start nuking, with palas can start right on inc!</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>So odd! but hey i learned something like always!<BR>

[Whysprr_Wyrd]

<P>Well, <EM><STRONG>I</STRONG> </EM>think it's cool to pull aggro.  But, I'm a dirge, and my regular group is 3-5 levels above me.  It happens about once an hour when Lanet's and everything else hit at once, and I hit slip and the aggro goes back to the ranger, oops, no, the tank.  And half the time it wasn't pulling aggro, it's some bloody heroic add that rips my head off and goes to work on the healer.  </P> <P>Whysprr  </P> <P>Whysprr Wyrdwynd (born during a severe vowel shortage)</P> <P>Brethren (And what about the sistren, may I just ask?)</P> <P>Qeynos (but not ridiculous about it) </P> <P>Dirge ('A group without a dirge is like a day without drizzle') and Jeweler (gotta support my imbued jewelry habit somehow)</P> <P>Some level or other (who knows when you're reading this)</P> <P>Neriak server</P>

[Stormhawk]

I pull aggro when I have a tank that starts talking up how awesome they are at holding aggro, heh.  Reminds them there are people that can do it if they want to, it is a joint effort. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just like I try to talk up the buffs groupies give me.... make them feel like some of your DPS is their DPS and they will feel better about the fact you are doing insane amounts of damage. <div></div>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Stormhawk wrote:<BR>I pull aggro when I have a tank that starts talking up how awesome they are at holding aggro, heh.  Reminds them there are people that can do it if they want to, it is a joint effort. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Just like I try to talk up the buffs groupies give me.... make them feel like some of your DPS is their DPS and they will feel better about the fact you are doing insane amounts of damage.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I love that! woohoo great post!

[The_Wind]

After reading TU18, they're nerfing Amends, by reducing the amount of hate siphoned.  Will put them on par with other tanks aggro keeping abilities i spose.<div></div>

[brandi7920]

<P>I never thought I would see the day that a Ranger would make it to the MT group in a raid. Well..the day came (and went - since it was yesterday LOL). </P> <P>So the MT was a Pally with Amends on me and MH was Inquisitor with Chilling Inquest on little ol' me. Yesterday, my raid leader (he's the Inquizzie) told me that he was in love with me. ROFL.</P> <P>It was so GREAT to do as much dmg as I possibly can (and with a Dirge in the mix to boost more DPS!!) not have to worry about gaining aggro and it was cool to see that the MH NEVER went below the first block of mana. </P> <P>Oh yah..and in raids my surveil is a very beneficial skill to have. </P> <P>One more thing for you raiding Rangers, the epic portion of Silent City: Thorny Trap works on some of those epic mobs (don't ask me why, lol) but it sure does help out quite a bit with crowd control when you have 2.5 groups taking on epic X4s LOL. </P>