Are HO's Worth it?

[Bardrick]

I was testing this last night.  IT seems that whenever I start a HO, I stop swinging for about 2 - 3 seconds.  The damage bonus and buff I get doesnt seem to be worth the loss in overall output.  So, I ran several of the same mobs using HO,s combo's and just button mashing.  At level 25, with poisons, and our 3 biggest dot, along with our 2 stuns, I seem to have done better just popping buttons as they came up then using the HO's.  I was also using the stun,  stealth, fire attack also. Anyone else seen this?  Or do the HO get better with level? <div></div>

[Jay]

<DIV>I don't know what you're seeing with the pause in attacks, but that might just be an animation thing, not an actual delay in combat. But yes, HOs are most definitely worth it, especially in groups. While soloing, I still use them at 55 and they're a nice boost to damage and offensive capabilities.  In groups, scouts get the best starter chains and group HOs are very useful - they're like spells that the group members cast together. These can produce effects like group regens, combat buffs, DD effects, AE damage, etc. A group that's well-versed in HOs can really increase their overall effectiveness. </DIV>

[Ranja]

<DIV>It is difficult to argue with the HOs worth in group situations. They do indeed give great buffs and group benefits. The more classes involved the better the resulting HO. In a solo situation, I use them all the time but I am not convinced that it is any bewtter than button mashing. I always try to get Swindler's Luck off for the buff but I am not sure ringing blow does that much damage. I use them but no convinced of there overall effectiveness. Obviously, Bravo's Dance is really nice as well. I would love to see parses using HOs solo.</DIV>

[Jay]

Ringing Blow does add a decent chunk of damage, in my experience. Generally I find it's about the value of one of my frontal melee combat arts, so why NOT do it? The only real detriment is the mana use, but I never run low on power while soloing. Just have to be careful in groups, b/c you can cause ppl to burn mana too quickly if you're chaining HOs one after another... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fennir]

I've never seen my combat pause after starting a HO.  Remember that the attack animation often has little to do with the actual attacks you are doing... chat logs are more precise, use those. Anyways, Ringing Blow is small damage, so I rarely try for it anymore.  When I'm soloing, I try to have Swindler's Luck up constantly, as the bonuses it provides not only help greatly, but also completely offset the negatives from using the defensive stance if necessary. In XP groups, we rarely have time to do 3 or 4 person HOs, but we do two-person HOs quite often.  Fighter -> Scout provides Swindler's Gift (swindlers luck for the whole group) and Luck's Bite (400-600 dmg) and I never have to interrupt my attack process to finish them as they involve debuffs I use often.  Fighter -> Priest and Fighter -> Mage are also quick and easy and provide good bonuses. Just be careful not to finish a damage HO with a buff, or it will do no damage. <div></div>

[GrayStorm]

<P>/agree </P> <P>HO's FTW!!!!</P>

[xandez]

<div></div>Only problem with HO:s in group situations is that the 10s time window is quite narrow... if you have some lag, or maybe just 1s ago used you skill which triggers the HO and the next get resisted (blocked / parried) you're gonna fail the HO. Also, the fights really dont last very long (apart from nameds / epcis of course), so in normal exp groups, the HO:s are nice but... they could be better. If you take some time and learn them with your group (playing mostly with a regular group is more convenient here) the HO:s make more sense, and the 10s time limit isnt that bad also... So, definitely worth using them atleast in solo, and actually no harm in using them in groups either <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (even if you dont complete em, or sumthing...) ++Xan <div></div><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:42 AM</span>

[Mentla]

<span><blockquote><hr>xandez wrote:<div></div>Only problem with HO:s in group situations is that the 10s time window is quite narrow... if you have some lag, or maybe just 1s ago used you skill which triggers the HO and the next get resisted (blocked / parried) you're gonna fail the HO. Also, the fights really dont last very long (apart from nameds / epcis of course), so in normal exp groups, the HO:s are nice but... they could be better. If you take some time and learn them with your group (playing mostly with a regular group is more convenient here) the HO:s make more sense, and the 10s time limit isnt that bad also... So, definitely worth using them atleast in solo, and actually no harm in using them in groups either <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (even if you dont complete em, or sumthing...) ++Xan <div></div><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class="date_text">11-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:42 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>10 seconds can seem to long some times.  The number of groups I've been in where the HO gets held up by people who don't know how to use them drives me nuts!  <span>:smileymad:</span></span><div></div>

[Its Da Ranger]

I always use my HO's, Swindler's Luck increases all melee/ranged by 20+ (can't remember) so I try and keep this buff on me at all times, and Bravo's Dance is just lovely to get if it happens to come up <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Merkad]

Imo, they are not worth it. For one, most people don't regularly use them, and trying to get them too tends to be time consuming as well as an exercise in futility.Aside from that, I really don't think that even group ones are worth it. Buffs or DPS variants. The days of HOs letting people single group epics has passed. Buff effects mean alot less, levels alot more. As for the damage ones.. well, as a ranger it annoys me when people want me to waste time doing a HO for *possibly* 2-900 damage (on the better fast one, lucks bite) when I have a plethora of moves I can press 1 button and generate more damage than that. Between poisons and the offensive stance, even something like snaring shot could turn into that kind of damage.But, as I said, that is imo, and I think of those who post on the boards, I am in the minority.Merkades, 58th Ranger.Tradeskills suck, 34th Jeweler.Disciples of Destiny, Najena.

[Quillian Feetfa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merkades wrote:<BR>Imo, they are not worth it. For one, most people don't regularly use them, and trying to get them too tends to be time consuming as well as an exercise in futility. <FONT color=#ff0033>  -- I don't find them that much more time consuming.  It's just on extra button to click on a combo that I'm going to be doing anyway (HO Starter, Cheapshot, run around to back of MOB, Pouncing attack, Crippling Blade to fire the HO.)  Of course, that's just my opinion.</FONT><BR><BR>Aside from that, I really don't think that even group ones are worth it. Buffs or DPS variants. The days of HOs letting people single group epics has passed. Buff effects mean alot less, levels alot more. As for the damage ones.. well, as a ranger it annoys me when people want me to waste time doing a HO for *possibly* 2-900 damage (on the better fast one, lucks bite) when I have a plethora of moves I can press 1 button and generate more damage than that. Between poisons and the offensive stance, even something like snaring shot could turn into that kind of damage. <FONT color=#ff0000>-- It's FREE damage or Buff that doesn't really require that much more effort (speaking from a solo standpoint.  Group HOs are way harder to coordinate).  Not only do you get the damage that your CA would do any way, but few hundred damage for little effort.  It's always nice to the the MOB die from using one an HO.  Give me a sense of satisfaction.</FONT><BR><BR>But, as I said, that is imo, and I think of those who post on the boards, I am in the minority.  <FONT color=#ff0000>-- I bet there are a lot of people that don't especially like to use the HOs.  I've tried to get people in my groups to use them when I have a good one.  Some will, some won't.  There really isn't a right or wrong answer to this one, it's all based on how you feel.</FONT><BR><BR>Merkades, 58th Ranger.<BR>Tradeskills suck, 34th Jeweler.<BR>Disciples of Destiny, Najena.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>The preceeding statements are just a statement of opinion by the poster and are in no way to be taken as facts.  Just one Rangers opinion.  </P>

[Jay]

I got lucky (heh, right B?) and around level 30 I fell in with a great group that's lasted - with a few adjustments - to this day. Our healer in that group was a taskmaster when it came to the HOs. She'd studied up on them and knew the tables back to front, and under her strict tutelage I started to learn the ins and outs of different HO combinations. <DIV>I'd roll the wheel as soon as our tank pulled, and often kept it spinning with HO after HO through the whole battle. (We had a chanter so power use wasn't much of a concern.) I've gotten rusty and fallen out of the habit lately, but I still try to spin them during the tougher battles that last a bit longer, just for the extra benefits they can confer. Worthwhile or not, they're fun to do and IMO add a game-within-a-game element that keeps the grinds entertaining.</DIV>

[Merkad]

@Mihouki - I was hoping that my post was taken as an opinion, which is why I started and ended it by saying such. I am not so arrogant to think I know it all yet ;P My first line was really about group HOs. I agree that solo HOs are super easy to do, but still nearly worthless imo. The all too common DD one rarely tops 200. Not entirely, just not enough to make me care most days.Point number two is the same really, I meant group HOs, as solo ones.. no one should ever have a hard time doing a solo HO (that does not include if the mobs parry et cetera, we are talking timing and coordination). But for the moment, I rarely use solo ones, namely because there is very little I will melee, because my bow will kill most things, and if I am meleeing, then I am using honed reflexes/brutal instinct (the dps booster), or stream of arrows in melee range.I agree that there is no really wrong answer to liking/using HOs, but unfortunately, that is a point in my favor. If they do not present a noticebale impact, I see little reason to keep them save for amusement. To me it is unecessarily confounding the battle system. Though I will go so far as to say a revamp and making them more useful/necessary "might" not be so bad.Final point. You are quite right, there are plenty of people who do not like HOs, easily more so that those who like HOs. But they seldom post and are the minority here, which is where I cast my lot (since I do post here and there).@Jay42 - I am envious of that. Unfortunately, my core group split up/ disliked the revamp. I imagine HOs are much less a pita with a competent group skilled in their use.Merkades.