Chaining stealth attacks in Solo fights

[Sotaudi]

<DIV>Forgive me if someone else mentioned this, but before the CU, it was pointless to try to do more than one stealthed attack per hit with Cheap Shot.  The stun broke as soon as you damaged them, so the best you could hope for was to hit them with Cheap Shot, go into Stealth, and get off one stealthed/positional attack, then wait for Cheap Shot to recharge.  And even then, you had to be quick or you would miss your one shot when a poison ticked and woke them up before you could get into position.  Thus, I usually used Shadowflame in my 20s since it required only stealth, not position, just to give myself a better chance of actually hitting them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the combat update, I, of course, started checking out the skills changes, and I noticed that it was much easier to get into position, so I went back to using Shadow Lunge, which requires both stealth and position, but does more damage.  Out of habit, I would then move into my normal melee attacks after completing that sequence.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, this weekend, I noticed that the mobs were not necessarily waking up after hitting them, even with Shadow Lunge.  So I experimented and found that if I was fast enough, I could actually hit with Cheap Shot, hit Shadow to go into stealth while moving into position, then hit with Shadow Lunge, followed by Pouncing Attack to put me back into Stealth, followed by Raven Embers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It did not always work, and sometimes I could only get off the Shadow Lunge and Pouncing Attack, but I checked the logs and I was able to get damage with all three attacks fairly often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did I miss this discussion or did everyone else, like me, just assume that you could still only get off one stealthed attack per Cheap Shot?</DIV>

[Audio]

I guess you missed the discussion.  I know we've discussed it here before but I'm too lazy to look.  But yeah, I think most rangers do that combo while soloing.  I know I do.

[Ranja]

You are way late with this discussion. We have known this since the combat upate. Glad you are using it though:smileyvery-happy:

[Jay]

<P>I dunno, I read every thread on this board and I don't remember much discussion here, but the implications of the six-second stun were probably apparent to some folks. Personally, being 55, I don't usually go for multiple melee attacks when I stun, I back off and unload Triple Fire or Sharp Shot. But I will sometimes use a stealth attack and THEN back off for a ranged CA before the stun breaks; it can work if you're quick enough. </P> <P>Still, if I were lower level, the sequence Sotaudi describes would be extremely useful. Probably tough to pull off, but kudos for making the most of those six seconds. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P>

[xandez]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I do exactly as Jay said too... I love to use my bow as much as possible, so i usually dont do 2x stealth attacks in same stun period. But, i have done it a few times, its doable and its ok... Espec if youre in a space which wont allow much movement due to add you could get, or your triple shot / sharp shot is loading, or... whatever <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <font color="#ff9900">*EDIT*</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">try this if you havent:</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">#1 cheapshot mob</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">#2 jump over mob (imo the fastest way behind it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">OR just move a tad to the side of the mob </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> <font color="#ffcc00">*EDIT2*</font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">optionally you could use surveil here 1st, which also can be launched immediately after the cheapshot and you could start moving the same time</font><font color="#ffcc00"> </font><font color="#ffcc00">if you like to do that, replace the  pouncing attack line CA</font><font color="#ffcc00"><span>:s with surveil line CA:s in the following list (and vice versa) smileyvery-happy:</span></font> </font><font color="#ff9900">#3 immediately execute pouncing attack line CA </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">#4 followed by raven ember line (if your on the side of the mob) OR the shadow lunge line (if your on the backside)</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">#5 just hit surveil line CA</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">#6 execute the remaining steath attack (raven ember line or shadow lunge line)</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">I find that jumping behind mob and starting with the backstab gives you a bigger window to actually get 2 stealthed attacks off.</font><font color="#ff9900"> </font><font color="#ff9900">This is because the backstab wont go through if the mob turns, BUT the raven ember line WILL go through even if the mobs turns, since if wont have time to break your stealth before it hits the mob... (this also works against groups of mobs usually, or atleast i have been able to pull off cheapshot + pouncing attack line + raven ember line quite often when i have had other mobs melee'ing on me)</font> ++Xan <div></div><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class="date_text">11-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:06 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 PM</span>

[Mentla]

I missed the descussion but found out you could do this to my joy in Zek.  Been trying to forage there since I was about 25 and getting my a55 handed to me, but since I hit 27 I've been able to drop most lvl30 mobs if I can get full benfit from the cheap shot lasting. Wouldn't advice taking on mobs 3 levels higher than you if they get that all important first hit in though  :p  We Rangers really do need that all important firt attack.  Don't remember the name of it, but the bow attack you use while stealthed at around level 24 - while we were using our mages last night a freind won the lotto for the Adp III version of it and has mailed it to me.  Can't wait to try it tonight!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Aringi]

<P>I don't remember if it was discussed or not, I had assumed it was.  Typically I use most bow shots and both stealth attacks per fight (if the mob doesn't die first :smileyvery-happy: )</P> <P>My normal solo tactic at lvl 36 is pulling with range attack with snare ( not sure the name of the CA), fire off triple shot, flaming shot and back pedal with crippling arrow.  When in melee range activate HO, cheap shot, pouncing attack, shadowblade, shadow, raven embers.  With this they are typically dead or slight health left depending on the type of mob and HO landed.</P> <P>Works for me, only problem is the refresh time for some abilities, but usually for next fight I would use Hidden fire to pull add a couple of ranged CAs and go with frontal melee CAs and they die fast enough that way ( just not AS fast :smileywink: )</P>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <P>I dunno, I read every thread on this board and I don't remember much discussion here, but the implications of the six-second stun were probably apparent to some folks. Personally, being 55, I don't usually go for multiple melee attacks when I stun, I back off and unload Triple Fire or Sharp Shot. But I will sometimes use a stealth attack and THEN back off for a ranged CA before the stun breaks; it can work if you're quick enough. </P> <P>Still, if I were lower level, the sequence Sotaudi describes would be extremely useful. Probably tough to pull off, but kudos for making the most of those six seconds. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, to tell the truth, I had a 7 second stun with Adept 1 Cheap Shot before the CU, so when I saw that they made the skill non-upgradeable and gave it a set 6 second duration, my first thought was, well, they may have made it somewhat more effective, but they kind of reduced the duration in my case.  Likewise, even though they indicated it was more effective, they added the caveat that the effectiveness would be reduced as the mob's relative level to me increased.  Thus, I was not expecting it to be as big of a change as it seems to be.  Add to that the fact that I level my Illusionist at about the same pace as my Ranger (and the CU changes to him were huge with the addition of the Personae) and the fact that I have two other characters not all that far behind, I really did not get a chance to delve deeply into the changes for my Ranger until more recently.  So I must beg my brother Rangers' forgiveness.  Those other classes . . . they really did not mean a thing.  :smileyvery-happy:   Anyway, with all that, I ended up missing the discussions that may have occured regarding Cheap Shot, so I noted that I was able to get off Shadow Lunge more often, but it was only last weekend, that it occurred to me that there were just standing there taking my follow up punishment, which out of habit had been what I would have followed up with before.  /shrug</P> <P>As far as it being a level dependent issue, that is partly correct.  I just hit level 38.  At level 37, my highest damage attacks were Adept 1 Hidden Shot, Master II Crippling Arrow, and Adept 1 Shadow Lunge, in that order I believe, with Adept 1 Triple Shot contending if it proc'ed additional damage and all its arrows hit.  At level 38, I picked up Crippling Blade to replace Shadow Lunge, and at Adept 1, it is hitting for more than Hidden Shot. So depending on your level and your spell qualities, different strategies may be more beneficial.</P> <P>However, there are also other factors to consider.  For instance, at the start of a battle, I have generally already used Hidden Shot and Crippling Arrow to pull.  So they are usually recharging when the mob gets to me, while this sequence is available.  Triple Shot could potentially proc more damage than my stealth melee attacks, but with Triple Shot, if one shot misses, any subsequent shot it could potentially hit with will also miss.  So it is also possible that Triple Shot will do considerably less damage than Crippling Blade alone, and possibly less than Crippling Blade followed Pouncing Attack and Raven Embers even if all three arrows from Triple Shot hit.  Once I level and Triple Shot gets upgraded, that could shift the balance again, but right now, it is not necessarily more advantageous, and that probably goes back and forth depending on the skills and their qualities you currently have available.</P> <P>But even if that were not true, it is also situationally dependent.  I already mentioned the possibility of having the shot you want to use still recharging after having used it to pull, but you can also be in a group situation where you have just used all your bow shots and you attract the attention of a linked mob or even picked up an add.  It can sometimes be best for that situation that you deal with that mob, and that makes it the same as a solo fight where your ability to use ranged attacks is limited (and in this case, not currently possible while waiting for them to refresh).  Likewise, not all situtions allow you to move around freely.  If you are alone in a dungeon with other mobs around, often it is true that the less you have to move around, the better.  Thus, being able to chain these stealthed melee attacks is of benefit even at levels where your bow shots may do more damage.  That is not to suggest you are incorrect in your experience.  It is just to say that there are situations where this technique is useful regardless of level.</P> <P>And as far as being difficult to pull off, I have a macro that I have always used to hit with Cheap Shot, turn off auto attack, and fire off Shadow in one click.  Granted, with Stealth now automatically turning off Auto attack, having the macro do it is not as necessary, but hey, it works, why change it?  Besides, it still hits with Cheap Shot and fires off Shadow, so I can hit that macro, and move into position pretty quickly.  As such, I do not seem to have any problem following up with Crippling Blade, Pouncing Attack, and Raven Embers very quickly.  So most of the time, all three seem to hit.  When it does not work, at most I usually just miss Raven Embers, so I am still getting off two attacks.</P>

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aringill wrote:<BR> <P>I don't remember if it was discussed or not, I had assumed it was.  Typically I use most bow shots and both stealth attacks per fight (if the mob doesn't die first :smileyvery-happy: )</P> <P>My normal solo tactic at lvl 36 is pulling with range attack with snare ( not sure the name of the CA), fire off triple shot, flaming shot and back pedal with crippling arrow.  When in melee range activate HO, cheap shot, pouncing attack, shadowblade, shadow, raven embers.  With this they are typically dead or slight health left depending on the type of mob and HO landed.</P> <P>Works for me, only problem is the refresh time for some abilities, but usually for next fight I would use Hidden fire to pull add a couple of ranged CAs and go with frontal melee CAs and they die fast enough that way ( just not AS fast :smileywink: )</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have found that I have more success with Hidden Shot + Crippling Arrow as my primary opener.  With Hidden Shot at Adept 1 and Crippling Shot at Master II, there is a damage potential of over 1500 without any procs whatsoever.  At level 37, I found I could often two shot level 39 Evol Ew (?) Conscripts without having to move.   Thus, I do the opposite.  I will generally start with Hidden Shot + Crippling Arrow, then use Sniping Shot (that is the back shot with snare CA you mentioned) + Triple Shot + Flaming Shot as my alternate opener while waiting for refreshes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before the CU, Sniping Shot out damaged Hidden Shot plus it had the snare component.  But the update considerably boosted the damage of Hidden Shot, so that, combined with the huge boost from the training upgrade for Crippling Arrow makes that the better choice for a primary opener for me even though you only get off two shots.</DIV>

[Aringi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sotaudi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Before the CU, Sniping Shot out damaged Hidden Shot plus it had the snare component.  But the update considerably boosted the damage of Hidden Shot, so that, combined with the huge boost from the training upgrade for Crippling Arrow makes that the better choice for a primary opener for me even though you only get off two shots.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Aye I remember that Sniping Shot, pre CU, was the more powerful attack probably due to the position requirement.  Post CU they made Hidden Shot more potent but lenghtened the cast time, which in my opinion is well worth the change.  </P> <P>Lately I've been experimenting with different pulling combos for back to back pulling to see what I feel is best in my case.  I agree with you on Triple Shot though, it has a very large damage range.  It can be a complete miss or a devastating attack if all three shots hit plus a variety of procs.  I like to use it with as many other ranged shots as possible just on the chance it doesn't do much damage.  But hey that may change as I said, I'm again looking at what works best for me as I just hit lvl 38.  </P> <P>Each Ranger will have different tactics I'm sure as they have different levels of Combat Arts.  But the potential of each art is good to know as it can encourage others to get that level of CA, as I'm sure all Rangers are dieing to get that M1 Sniper's Shot.<BR></P>