Archer's Frenzy / Whirling Blades Imbalance

[Pleiades]

<DIV>My point:  The nerf of Archer's Frenzy creates a clear, verifiable imbalance against rangers and in favour of assassins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While in a group situation this imbalance does NOT occur (as long as the ranger doesn't pull agro).  When solo'ing the imbalance is significant.  This imbalance can easily be tested and quantified:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>When a mob is attacked it typically closes distance on its attacker.</LI> <LI>If an assassin use their abilities well he/she will attack from close range and in-stealth.  Each successful attack during the fight will then have a chance to proc. the assassin level 59 stance, Whirling Blades.</LI> <LI>When a ranger attacks he will also have to be stealthed, but also be at a significant range (this is no problem, we are rangers, we expect this).  The problem is that Archer's Frenzy can only proc. at range.  Thus when the mob finally closes range down <STRONG>below 5m we no longer have a chance to proc. our primary offensive stance.</STRONG></LI> <LI>Rangers can try to keep the mob at range with traps, our nerf'd stun, or snares, but, unless the mob or mob-group is too weak to even be fighting, it will eventually close distance and be at melee range for some, non-trivial part of the fight.<BR></LI> <LI>During about 50 battles each (ranger and similarly leveled & equipped assassin) this results in about a quarter more damage from the assassin proc. on similar Silent City mobs.<BR></LI> <LI>This imbalance could be cured by allowing a reasonable chance for a 2 second root on the ability (thus holding the mob at range longer) or by increasing the damage so that the net damage is the same as assassin's Whirling Blades on similar targets.</LI> <LI><EM>Please do not consider nerf'ing our assassin brothers (evil though they may be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</EM></LI></UL> <DIV>Please consider these suggestions SOE (note, I have /feedback'd these as well, I suggest other rangers consider the same).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Pleiades</DIV> <DIV> 60 Ranger</DIV> <DIV> 60 Weaponsmith</DIV> <DIV> Dracos Argent, Officer</DIV> <DIV> Highkeep</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

More power to 'em, I say. They're supposed to do more damage in melee than we do, after all. I guess I could see a slight bump to the ranged damage proc for our offensive stances, but I don't tend to compare myself with other classes. I have some very worthwhile tools to do the job for which I was designed, so I'm happy with it.  /shrug

[Teksun]

Thats the wonderful thing of playing only one class... I don't care what happens to the other classes. I loved the Ranger back when we had nothing, and love us even more now that we can do what we are MEANT to do. <div></div>

[Te]

<DIV>As it is when you at the stage you got the skill "Archers Frenzy" you dont have to melee at all to solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think its probl intended that we dont need to melee when we solo either.</DIV>

[Saihung23]

<span><blockquote><hr>Teksun wrote:Thats the wonderful thing of playing only one class... I don't care what happens to the other classes. I loved the Ranger back when we had nothing, and love us even more now that we can do what we are MEANT to do. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Indubitably!</span><div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<DIV>This is exactly why Our's has a 30% proc rate, and theirs only 10. There is no imbalance.</DIV>

[xandez]

<P>Exactly, no imbalance. Wouldnt even be if theirs had 30% proc chance... why? Well, i think you all know why.</P> <P>Besides, whats more fun than class diversity?</P> <P><BR>++Xan</P> <P> </P>

[Fennir]

No one who knows how to play a ranger would make a thread like this. <div></div>

[King Leor]

<P>*SIGH* it never ends. Guess my previous post meant nothing to some people. It's fine the way it is. we ge to proc 30% of the time and because we use lonbows with 7 sec delay it actually procs about 70% of the time. so please dont complain. I still out dmg assassins so it's not something to worry about. </P> <P>Leoric<BR>Level 60 ranger</P>

[Jay]

<P>/Yawn</P>

[xandez]

ROFL <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ++Xan <div></div>

[BlackAdderDr]

This has to be the only call I have ever seen to nerf assassins. Leave them be!  NO wait...  give them more!  Our poor brethren still need some help, I wholeheatedly call for up in Assasin DPS! -Alaulai 59 Ranger of Nektulos <div></div>

[A]

Hate to be harsh but this post makes you wonder how some people can reach 60 and not know their class better... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS : Stun wasn't 'nerfed' the description was changed yes, the effect is exactly the same as before....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class=date_text>11-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:41 AM</span>

[Crychtonn]

<P>This thread is funny</P> <P> </P>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

<DIV>W t f pleiades, thought better of you, seriously.</DIV><p>Message Edited by SmEaGoLLuM86 on <span class=date_text>11-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:19 PM</span>

[jchara]

<P>The person who started this thread needs to go play a different game.</P> <P>Different characters, different classes, different amounts of damage its that simple.  As a ranger our class is very good now.  I have 85 days played on my character so I know what I am talking about.  If someone has something we don't then good for them.  It just bothers me to see people start to complain with our class after they made awesome changes for us.</P> <P>Kiven, Unrest</P>

[TheStormrider]

<DIV>Im rather dissapointed that so many RANGERS have replied to this post with easily perceived rude comments.  I believe that this is one rangers opinion, and may or may not be mis-informed.  Be that as it may,  helping him to understand why it is not un-balanced now,  explaining that the assassin is taking damage while using its special, and rangers typically are not, etc... are all good comments,  and FITTING responses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>'Learn how to play your class - ish responses'...?   *sigh*.  Are these really in line with most of the communication that is posted in these ranger forums?  The poster was not beligerant,  was not crass,  did not make acusations, and stated his concerns very clearly.  He did not keep posting over and over again stating the same information neglecting to actually read the follow up posts.  (For a good example see the nerf ranger posts in the CU13 threads.)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I purposefully stayed away from forums for a long time,  and found it refreshing that the rangers were typically not Trolls.  (No pun intended).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I do not think that there is necessarily an imbalance,  I am surprised at the angle of some of the responses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(o)(o)'s</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheStormrider wrote:<BR> <DIV>Im rather dissapointed that so many RANGERS have replied to this post with easily perceived rude comments.  I believe that this is one rangers opinion, and may or may not be mis-informed.  Be that as it may,  helping him to understand why it is not un-balanced now,  explaining that the assassin is taking damage while using its special, and rangers typically are not, etc... are all good comments,  and FITTING responses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>'Learn how to play your class - ish responses'...?   *sigh*.  Are these really in line with most of the communication that is posted in these ranger forums?  The poster was not beligerant,  was not crass,  did not make acusations, and stated his concerns very clearly.  He did not keep posting over and over again stating the same information neglecting to actually read the follow up posts.  (For a good example see the nerf ranger posts in the CU13 threads.)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I purposefully stayed away from forums for a long time,  and found it refreshing that the rangers were typically not Trolls.  (No pun intended).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I do not think that there is necessarily an imbalance,  I am surprised at the angle of some of the responses.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Good points all. I think the large difference in proc chance was the big missing link here, and really all the OP needed to know to adjust the perception that this is unbalanced. <BR>

[sAs-Bartleby]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pleiades wrote:<div>My point:  The nerf of Archer's Frenzy creates a clear, verifiable imbalance against rangers and in favour of assassins.</div> <div> </div> <div>While in a group situation this imbalance does NOT occur (as long as the ranger doesn't pull agro).  When solo'ing the imbalance is significant.  This imbalance can easily be tested and quantified:</div> <div> </div> <ul> <li>When a mob is attacked it typically closes distance on its attacker.</li> <li>If an assassin use their abilities well he/she will attack from close range and in-stealth.  Each successful attack during the fight will then have a chance to proc. the assassin level 59 stance, Whirling Blades.</li> <li>When a ranger attacks he will also have to be stealthed, but also be at a significant range (this is no problem, we are rangers, we expect this).  The problem is that Archer's Frenzy can only proc. at range.  Thus when the mob finally closes range down <strong>below 5m we no longer have a chance to proc. our primary offensive stance.</strong></li> <li>Rangers can try to keep the mob at range with traps, our nerf'd stun, or snares, but, unless the mob or mob-group is too weak to even be fighting, it will eventually close distance and be at melee range for some, non-trivial part of the fight.</li> <li>During about 50 battles each (ranger and similarly leveled & equipped assassin) this results in about a quarter more damage from the assassin proc. on similar Silent City mobs.</li> <li>This imbalance could be cured by allowing a reasonable chance for a 2 second root on the ability (thus holding the mob at range longer) or by increasing the damage so that the net damage is the same as assassin's Whirling Blades on similar targets.</li> <li><em>Please do not consider nerf'ing our assassin brothers (evil though they may be <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</em></li></ul> <div>Please consider these suggestions SOE (note, I have /feedback'd these as well, I suggest other rangers consider the same).</div> <div> </div> <div>-Pleiades</div> <div> 60 Ranger</div> <div> 60 Weaponsmith</div> <div> Dracos Argent, Officer</div> <div> Highkeep</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>I like it the way it is. I don´t think that it is imbalanced with the assaines stance. how many more procs do you want to have. poison proc gleaming strike proc from akesha and obsid axe or other proc weapons </span><span>Archer's Frenzy proc Most of the time the mob is instant dead or nearly dead when i hit him first. Even heroic if stuned by poison can be killed not moving an inch. You have to take every playcard of corse, but that makes the fun. I like it to solve problems. </span><div></div>

[Gyilok]

<P>since dof launch and the combat changes, rangers and melee rarely should be mentioned together, since rangers can do their job best at range, and the ones taking their job seriusly do that anyway</P> <P>since you have a huge advantage using the 7 sec delay bows over every other melee class in regard of the proc system, complaining about anything will be considered merely a joke</P>

[Untruth]

When you look at in on paper, whirling blades probably is better than the ranged proccing line, but its nowhere near equal. Even as an assassin in the mid 30s, i can easily take a mob down to about 30% health using just bow CAs, and as you may already realise its because of procs - from poison, and the 7 second delay being fired instantly via CAs resulting in instant high damage procs. In other words, the proc rate for bow shots is around 70-80% in reality, and the melee proc rate tends to be around... 4-7%?

[A]

<DIV>I believe the original posters got so many 'direct' answers because him being 60 it is assumed he knows at least a few things on how the class he is playing works ( like the proc rate for instance...).</DIV>