Insane Agro

[Star]

<DIV>So I had this weirdness on a raid the other night and I was wondering what people thought had happened to me. Let me start with what happened.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were doing the Deceptions Drakota in Fire Myst. So I'm hanging out at range waiting for the Pally to pull. He does so, drags the mobs all the way back to the raid. Now our plan is the MT (who pulled) tanks the mobs... no brainer. The MA tried to find the fakes and get them dropped as fast as possible. So MT pulls the mobs back. I sit... I wait... 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand. He's got them back. So far I have done nothing but look at the mobs. Fire off Triple Fire (Adept 3) and think.... oops should have debuffed first with Debilitating Arrow (Adept 1) first. One one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand (I'm waiting because I don't want to pull agro. Mean while everyone else is going to town). Fire off Debilitating and CRAP!!!! Dakota charging me and... I die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I did have a Legendary Poison A-somethings Demise (The exact name escapes me) but... I mean... 3 seconds of 0 DPS then a 3 second pause where I might have had one ranged auto attack go off and I grab agro? I didn't have Amends on me bacause I was the lowest out of 3 rangers in the raid. So who can tell me what likely caused the Drakota to beat me like a red-headed step child because I'm baffled.</DIV>

[Cael]

<P>he thought you were cute...duh</P> <P>But seriously, I have noticed after lu15 certain mobs go after certain classes auto. Some guildees and i were bored so we went and killed all the spiders in the grotto, and everytime the tank stepped on an egg...we'd see these little spiders scurrying all the way across the room to attack the Mystic. I know that doesnt explain it, but you are not alone in this. </P> <P>I pulled aggro off a lvl 56 gaurd (I am 46) and I waited for a LONG time, probably 10secs or more in the COD part of fire and ice, shot some CA's, Sharp shot, trip fire, crippling, then used my master skel strike while waiting to recharge others and hello aggro</P>

[Zutan]

I won a bet recently that the tank couldnt take agro from me unless I allowed him to do so....  I used to never have problems with agro either.  Now it seems like the de-agro stance and CAs dont work to well and our bow shots add more agro than they should. <div></div>

[Lightboy]

That's curious ... we went to Maiden's last week, and all the drakotas we found were instapulled by our Mystic ... She wasn't very happy at all <span>:smileyindifferent:</span> <div></div>

[Jay]

Mystics have very strong pheromones (sp?) I think...

[Crychtonn]

<P>If you have a Pally as MT and he is using Amends on a Ranger make sure that Ranger knows to cancel Primal Agility and to use no aggro reducing skills during the fight.  Amends transfers both hate and deaggro.  A Pally will loose aggro on mobs without much effort if Amends isn't used correctly.</P> <P>I don't think the mobs in this case were predisposed to go after a certain class.  If they were they'd have gone after him off the initial pull.  There are alot of mobs that do this these days.  The first two set's of named in Cazel are guaranteed to go straight for the healer no matter how much the MT taunts.  Thorny Trap works great to get around that scripted mob action :smileywink:.  There is also a x2 Foreman something mob in Silent City that went after me no matter what the MT did on the pull.</P> <P> </P>

[The_Wind]

Mystics get runes.  Whenever mobs hit someone that has a rune on, its almost instant aggro for the mystic.  Thats why you always see them go after the mystic. =P <div></div>

[Zutan]

I was in a group in Nectropos Castle a while back and I was the puller since I could invis and scout out the area first.  All I would do is proximity agro the mobs and run them back to the tank.   I would have to use evade skill to make sure I lose agro on the pull so the tank could grab it.  More often than not the mob would go straight for the healer in the group (and nobody else ever) unless the tanks taunt or attack landed before I hit the evade. This has happened in other places too, when I get agro and hit evade to get them off of me, they bee-line for a specific person every time. <div></div>

[Cersiana]

<DIV>I was getting insta aggro of quest spawned mobs that the healer in our group spawned...</DIV> <DIV>without doing anything.. we gots some funky aggro now...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[hieronym]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jwmaynar wrote:<BR> <DIV>So I had this weirdness on a raid the other night and I was wondering what people thought had happened to me. Let me start with what happened.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We were doing the Deceptions Drakota in Fire Myst. So I'm hanging out at range waiting for the Pally to pull. He does so, drags the mobs all the way back to the raid. Now our plan is the MT (who pulled) tanks the mobs... no brainer. The MA tried to find the fakes and get them dropped as fast as possible. So MT pulls the mobs back. I sit... I wait... 1 one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand. He's got them back. So far I have done nothing but look at the mobs. Fire off Triple Fire (Adept 3) and think.... oops should have debuffed first with Debilitating Arrow (Adept 1) first. One one thousand, 2 one thousand, 3 one thousand (I'm waiting because I don't want to pull agro. Mean while everyone else is going to town). Fire off Debilitating and CRAP!!!! Dakota charging me and... I die.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I did have a Legendary Poison A-somethings Demise (The exact name escapes me) but... I mean... 3 seconds of 0 DPS then a 3 second pause where I might have had one ranged auto attack go off and I grab agro? I didn't have Amends on me bacause I was the lowest out of 3 rangers in the raid. So who can tell me what likely caused the Drakota to beat me like a red-headed step child because I'm baffled.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>could have had a taunt resisted but also could be down to whoever the pally had amends on in the main group. If you are fighting multiple mobs then amends needs to go on the one who can do great ae damage otherwise the single group taunt at pull just isnt high enough. Always use surveil after pull which will help lower the aggro and make sure whoever has amends in the MT group goes ae nuts</DIV>

[Dasanhgul]

<P>I got some weird aggro also last nite.... me and Conjurer killing pounders in SS. She'd pet pull, pet would whack it once and she'd pull the pet back and halfway the pounder would loose aggro on pet and come straight for me (and me being stealthed or just standing there minding my business).</P> <P>Had a few laughs about it... </P> <P> </P>

[Lenar]

I usualy wait a bit before I use Triple fire as it tends to get me alot of hate with poison, bow and offensive procs going off <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cron]

I can add to this.  Yes, Mystics have a few spells that give them immediate hate.  I'm not sure what they all are, but the Mystics in our guild have identifed the cause. Now we did the drakota (I think.. my first time) in CoD and then we did Rog last night.  In both instances, I shot just two arrows after giving the normal time for the tank to build up hate.  I was using Adeste's Distruption, Glox, and Phatasmical Visions.  Two arrows was all that was needed to give me hate.  I used Confusion Arrow and then Debilitating Arrow.  Next thing I know, the mob is right up my [Removed for Content].  Rog killed me.  The Drakota in the first instance listened when I evaded. <div></div>

[The_Wind]

Confusion Arrow has a 10 second effect, of increasing hate by said %.  If you fire within that 10 seconds, you generate that much more hate as well.  If the tank used all his taunts before you got that confusion arrow off, then you could quite possibly have generated more hate with that one CA afterwards+poisons/procs than that tank did to begin with.  Confusion arrow is great, if its used before a tank, otherwise it can screw a group. <div></div>

[xandez]

Yah, almost everytime i use confusion arrow, it proc my poison! Which of course add more hate towards me... duh... Hmm but havent noticed any aggro stealing increase lately thou... Its always been very tank dependant and with my friend tanking, i havent had any problems... Maybe i suck in DPS so that i dont have this problem! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> eheh... ++Xan <div></div>

[Cron]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>The_Wind wrote:Confusion Arrow has a 10 second effect, of increasing hate by said %.  If you fire within that 10 seconds, you generate that much more hate as well.  If the tank used all his taunts before you got that confusion arrow off, then you could quite possibly have generated more hate with that one CA afterwards+poisons/procs than that tank did to begin with.  Confusion arrow is great, if its used before a tank, otherwise it can screw a group. <div></div><hr></blockquote>It says next one to do melee damage.  I always took that to mean fighting with weapon and not ranged, spell, or poison.  Hmmm. I figured I could shoot it and it would take the fighters next damage as the hate.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Cronon on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:04 PM</span>

[Deml]

<DIV>We did this same drake in Firemyst Gully on Friday night.  I dropped Thorny Trap before the tank (59 guardian) pulled.  He ran them over the trap, I did nothing but stand there watching and as soon as the big drake broke from the trap it ran over, blasted me into oblivion then went back to the mt.  He had been taunting it during the pull, plus when it was in the trap.  I hadn't turned any attack command on at all and was dead right off.</DIV>

[chanaho]

Cronon meet rognog, rognog meet cronon. Insert chanahook for cronon...    Did rognog this weekend with a full 24 raid. Had a lvl 60 Pally MT (no ammends on me at lvl 49) and I was in his grp. avg level for raid was probably 52-54 with only one person below me.       I was being good and not going all out, spamming evasion/surveil whenever they came up and also had primal reflexes up. I was doing what anybody would do (i think) to make sure they didnt grab agro. We had rognog down to 50% when all of a sudden he turned around and I knew he was looking at me when that fist came down and the revive screen came up and he turned right back to the MT. I was the only casuality in that raid.     I decided then and there that my first priorities for adept 3's is with the surveil/evade line as apparantely my damage seems to be working without them.     Im beginning to wonder though if these lines actually work to lower hate as I cant figure out how a lvl 49 Ranger can get swatted by a lvl 55 monster being tanked by a 60 pally and nuked by lvl 52+ wizards... I mean, im still using t5 poison/arrows and hes 6 lvls above me. Any comments?     <div></div>

[BSbon]

<P>other things cause agro besides just hitting the mob. debuffs are a huge taunt, rooting a mob is huge, and being significally lower level than the mob can make him beat you down first. </P> <P>bongo</P>

[Jay]

Aye, sometimes it's just a matter of level. They isolate the weakest member of the herd and eliminate them...much like any predator. You have to kind of admire it, we just USE Culling the Herd, they actually DO cull the herd. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class=date_text>11-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:00 PM</span>

[hieronym]

<DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that rognog, he always picked on me when we raided him. i wasnt the weakling in the raid, i musta scared him :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[chanaho]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div>Aye, sometimes it's just a matter of level. They isolate the weakest member of the herd and eliminate them...much like any predator. You have to kind of admire it, we just USE Culling the Herd, they actually DO cull the herd. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class="date_text">11-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:00 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Jay, Id much prefer thinking that they take out the toughest first and worry about the yard trash later!  <span>:<span>:smileywink:</span></span> Your line of thinking here makes me want to crawl under a rock and come out when its all over...<span>:smileysad:</span> </span><div></div>

[Raahl]

<DIV>Spam your hate reducers between attacks when possible.  I also usually give the MT 5 seconds to gain hate before cutting lose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But it takes little effort for me to peal aggro if I want to.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good luck.</DIV>

[Jay]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> chanahook wrote: <P><SPAN>Jay,<BR><BR>Id much prefer thinking that they take out the toughest first and worry about the yard trash later!  <SPAN>:<SPAN>:smileywink:</SPAN></SPAN><BR><BR>Your line of thinking here makes me want to crawl under a rock and come out when its all over...<SPAN>:smileysad:</SPAN></SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm, okay maybe you're right...cuz Roggie has done the same to me and I wasn't the lowest level in the raid. So it must be that they realize the rangers are the greatest threat in the whole force and attack us first out of fear! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Cron]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div> <div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> chanahook wrote: <p><span>Jay,Id much prefer thinking that they take out the toughest first and worry about the yard trash later!  <span>:<span>:smileywink:</span></span>Your line of thinking here makes me want to crawl under a rock and come out when its all over...<span>:smileysad:</span></span></p> <hr> </blockquote>Hmmm, okay maybe you're right...cuz Roggie has done the same to me and I wasn't the lowest level in the raid. So it must be that they realize the rangers are the greatest threat in the whole force and attack us first out of fear! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>I think you've hit on answer Kae.  That must be it.  All is right with the world then <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Teksun]

Well, isn't that the way YOU take out group encounters? Priests and mages are the first to go. Priests for their heals, mages because they drop like flies... <div></div>

[Morgonn]

<div></div>Three of us (52 Fury, 51 Paladin and 46 Ranger (me)) tackled the Usurper in Tombs of Night to finish off an old quest for them.  Paladin pulled and I waited an appropriate amount of time and fired off a CA, waited about 10 seconds then fired off a second.  Dirt nap number one.  Fury rezzed and I thought 'Ok, melee then.  I have pretty good steady dps there.'  Dirt nap number two.  Repeat rez and at it again.  This time I left poisons off.  Melee distance again and whaddayaknow...dirt nap number three.  LOL...guess I'm just going to have to get used to that. <span>:smileytongue:</span>  Mob totally ignored evasive techniques and turned me into Ranger Kibbles. Was fun anyway.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div>

[Jay]

Wow, that's harsh. Did you have your Primal Agility line running? Does your tank know how to use taunts? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Star]

And did the Pally have the Amends line on you? There's no reason that w/o poison and just Melee you should be getting agro, especially with a Pally. I know that other rangers in my guild will a lot of times have trouble pulling agro from the Pally in our guild when they *try* to pull it.

[Morgonn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>To Jay's questions yes and yes...LOL  To jwymaynar, yes also.  It seemed to me that the attack speed may have had as much to do with the agro as did the poisons or the CA's.  I am dual wielding Serrated Bone Dirk and Polished Granite Tomahawk.  (Side question, could the proc on the PGT possibly help to account for the agro?)  I wonder because the mob busted my rear just readily without poisons as with them.  Also might it be that I am 5 levels below my MT? The tank is one that I duo with frequently and we have dealt with the agro situation before.  Any ideas or suggestions (besides a "Victim Here" sign around my neck.)<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Morgonn on <span class=date_text>11-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[The_Wind]

Don't forget that amends gets like what, 46% of your aggro.  thats good AND bad aggro.  Meaning if you have your primal agility up and running, plus using your evade and surveil abilities tank is LOSING 46% of that aggro as well.  Best bet with amends, keep all of those down, don't use them and just damage like normal.  You'll give the tank a NICE aggro boost.  <div></div>

[BSbon]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morgonn wrote:<BR> To Jay's questions yes and yes...LOL  To jwymaynar, yes also.  It seemed to me that the attack speed may have had as much to do with the agro as did the poisons or the CA's.  I am dual wielding Serrated Bone Dirk and Polished Granite Tomahawk.  (Side question, could the proc on the PGT possibly help to account for the agro?)  I wonder because the mob busted my rear just readily without poisons as with them.  Also might it be that I am 5 levels below my MT? The tank is one that I duo with frequently and we have dealt with the agro situation before.  Any ideas or suggestions (besides a "Victim Here" sign around my neck.)<SPAN>:smileyvery-happy:</SPAN><BR> <P><BR><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Morgonn on <SPAN class=date_text>11-15-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>speed of attacks also generates agro or at least it did in EQ1. but unlike EQ1 we cannot switch to a 2H weapon.</P> <P>bongo</P></DIV>

[xandez]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Cronon wrote:<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>The_Wind wrote:Confusion arrow is great, if its used before a tank, otherwise it can screw a group. <div></div><hr></blockquote>It says next one to do melee damage. I always took that to mean fighting with weapon and not ranged, spell, or poison. Hmmm. I figured I could shoot it and it would take the fighters next damage as the hate.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Well, if it actually says it only counts melee dmg, its better... still, we have a problem here. Since the upgrade #(x) the ranged autoattack automatically goes [ON] when you fire a ranged CA... well, when you fire confusion arrow: BUM hate increase for next 10s of melee... BAM your arrow hits for 800 dmg... well, arrow dmg IS counted as melee dmg, aint it so? Also, IF our offensive stance procs at the same time (also melee dmg), we just created ourselves a load of hate there... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Why cant the confusion arrow line be changed so that it doesnt count the shooters dmg for the hate increase, and maybe shorten the time a bit (from 10s to 7 or 5s, this for balanceing purposes so it wouldnt be too good)? That would make the confusion arrow more _useful_ or atleast it would give a greater reason to use it as a hate debuff... (but thenagain, dunno if this is intended to be a somesort of lucky strike, you either succeed in giving the tank more aggro, or you take it yourself (or maybe some other unlucky char takes it :O) ++Xan <p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>11-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 AM</span>