Skill Correction Please

[Emperors]

<DIV>I don't think anyone else has mentioned this so I will.  I've noticed that our deaggro line of spells, such as Slip, has a very short range.  So short that when I normally drop back a bit to fire off all of my ranged CA's that if I try to use it, I get the out of range message.  I was wondering if it would be possible to increase the range of this skill to the same distance as our maximum bow CA.  I know it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but it is kind of annoying having to move all the way in just to get off a deaggro skill.  Thanks for reading this post and please reply to it if you want with constructive criticism.</DIV>

[Dasanhgul]

I agree... one of the things most rangers are famous for are their "<EM>aggro dance</EM>" running back and forth. An increase in range in the evade line would help my fingers alot (and keep my fury friend from laughing so much everytime I do it) :smileyhappy: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>/sign</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[jarlaxle8]

<P>/agree</P> <P>i have the 'you are out of range' message pop up so much when i'm in grp and using the evade line. well, at least i step closer and - because i'm annoyed - i wack the mob with all my mellee skills before shooting again. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <DIV>--------------------------<BR><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204" target=_self>Ryilan Nightbreeze </A><BR>--------------------------</DIV>

[~Mercu]

<DIV>I sort of agree... but should you really be at max distance when fighting in a group?<BR>What if you do get agro?  Then the tank has to run to you to taunt it off.  You don't want to move/kite because that makes it even harder for the tank to get the taunt CA off.<BR><BR>Maybe increasing the range a little would be cool... but I can't ever think of a situation where the range on my deagro skill has been an issue.  But then again I only occasionally group.<BR></DIV>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">Actually, if you ever get agro, the tank should not have to come to you to taunt the mob off.  You should be making a bee-line for the tank and go sit in his/her lap until s/he re-establishes agro.  And you should have already mashed your /gsay macro that says "MOB ON ME".  One of the reasons for this is that some tanks have a skill that roots them but increases their hate gain.  Another is that if the tank has to come looking for you, it sometimes creates confusion in the group, and sometimes it is hard for the tank to see you if you're fighting a group of mobs whose body size is larger than average.  There are at least a dozen more reasons, but you get the idea. The range on the evade line should be increased.  If we can gain agro from a distance, we should be able to de-agro from that distance. </font><div></div>

[Dasanhgul]

<P>Ranger #863891 yells from 50 meters away:</P> <P><EM>" I'm sorry Mr Undead Mob but it wasn't me saying those nasty things about your mamma, it was that naughty gnome wizard over there. I'm pretty sure she is a very nice lady... for a brain sucking zombie."</EM></P>

[~Mercu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zholain wrote:<BR><FONT size=2>Actually, if you ever get agro, the tank should not have to come to you to taunt the mob off.  You should be making a bee-line for the tank and go sit in his/her lap until s/he re-establishes agro.  And you should have already mashed your /gsay macro that says "MOB ON ME".  One of the reasons for this is that some tanks have a skill that roots them but increases their hate gain.  Another is that if the tank has to come looking for you, it sometimes creates confusion in the group, and sometimes it is hard for the tank to see you if you're fighting a group of mobs whose body size is larger than average.  There are at least a dozen more reasons, but you get the idea.<BR><BR>The range on the evade line should be increased.  If we can gain agro from a distance, we should be able to de-agro from that distance.<BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Right well in highly organized groups where the players no exactly what to expect from each player in the group... a tank can have the luxury of knowing that a player will run to him if agro is on them.  What happens in my experience is the tank runs to the mob thats moved away from him as soon as he's lost agro to taunt.  He doesn't have time to calculate the moves of the dps class that's just stolen his agro.  Also, not all tanks have that snare luxury as I've seen tanks yell at players in groups that move or try themselves to snare and move because it's making his taunting job that more difficult.  Not to metion most zones tend to be pretty tight on agroing other groups.  Don't be that ranger that's added another group of mobs to the encounter.</P> <P>Maybe it's just me, but I've never needed to be maxed distance when I fight in a group.<BR>Max distance for me, has been for pulling or soloing.</P>

[Emperors]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>If we can gain agro from a distance, we should be able to de-agro from that distance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Exactly.  I'm not saying i'm out at max range when in a group; I just meant that we should have the option to be out there.  I know what a tank is thinking when someone pulls aggro from him cause I have a high level guardian too.  As for the comment about being out too far and aggroing other groups of mobs, that's just silly.  Of course you would be constantly looking around to make sure that doesn't happen and most of the time i'm just standing by the casters firing arrows off, but am still too far out of range for my evade line to work.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Emperors on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[~Mercu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emperors wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=2>If we can gain agro from a distance, we should be able to de-agro from that distance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Exactly.  I'm not saying i'm out at max range when in a group; I just meant that we should have the option to be out there.  I know what a tank is thinking when someone pulls aggro from him cause I have a high level guardian too.  As for the comment about being out too far and aggroing other groups of mobs, that's just silly.  Of course you would be constantly looking around to make sure that doesn't happen and most of the time i'm just standing by the casters firing arrows off, but am still too far out of range for my evade line to work.</FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Emperors on <SPAN class=date_text>11-11-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:20 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's cool... let me ask you something though, as I don't group that often so it might be something I don't know yet... why has it ever been necessary for you to use your bow skills outside of evasion range?  Also I tend to start fights with evasion.  It seems to help.  </P> <P>Oh and to avoid agroing other groups isn't a silly reason... it might be a small reason... but it doesn't change the fact the tighter your group is the less chance of it occurring.   And if you're hanging with casters, IMO they tend to be within evasion range.  I stay close to them also so I can notice their agro easier and help kill the mob or take the agro from them as my armor is better... that is in unique situations.  Of course usually I support the main tank exclusively.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by ~Mercuic on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:31 AM</span>

[Zholain]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr><font size="2">~Mercuic wrote:</font><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p><font size="2">That's cool... let me ask you something though, as I don't group that often so it might be something I don't know yet... <font color="#ffff00">why has it ever been necessary for you to use your bow skills outside of evasion range? </font> Also I tend to start fights with evasion.  It seems to help.</font></p><p><font size="2"><font color="#ffff00">Mob AOE's for one.  Tank movement for another. There are many more.  Group a little more and you'll experience the same frustration.  Not every fight is perfect and will allow you to remain in the 'sweet spot'.</font></font></p><p><font size="2"><font color="#ffff00">Oh and to avoid agroing other groups isn't a silly reason</font>... it might be a small reason... but it doesn't change the fact the tighter your group is the less chance of it occurring.   And if you're hanging with casters, IMO they tend to be within evasion range.  I stay close to them also so I can notice their agro easier and help kill the mob or take the agro from them as my armor is better... that is in unique situations.  Of course usually I support the main tank exclusively. </font></p> <p><font size="2"><font color="#ffff00">I don't think he meant that avoiding agro from other groups of mobs is silly.  I think he meant that it's an oversimplification to assume that one would just be standing out away from the mob for no good reason.  And that anyone standing out away from the fight would be silly if they weren't watching for additional mobs/agro.</font> </font></p> <p><font size="2"><span class="time_text"></span></font></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Zholain on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 AM</span>

[~Mercu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zholain wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT size=2><BR></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffff00>Mob AOE's for one.  Tank movement for another. There are many more.  Group a little more and you'll experience the same frustration.  Not every fight is perfect and will allow you to remain in the 'sweet spot'.</FONT><BR></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN><BR></FONT></SPAN><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>ah, gotcha... mob AOEs is something I haven't considered.<BR>You're right sweet spot usually works for me.</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <p>Message Edited by ~Mercuic on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:14 AM</span>

[Deml]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P>Ranger #863891 yells from 50 meters away:</P> <P><EM>" I'm sorry Mr Undead Mob but it wasn't me saying those nasty things about your mamma, it was that naughty gnome wizard over there. I'm pretty sure she is a very nice lady... for a brain sucking zombie."</EM></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Translation.... I drew agro and then hit Evasion + Improved Surveil and sent the mob after the wizard instead, then stood back and watched as the gnome was sacrificed to the Master Chest gods so we had a better chance of the metal chest dropping. =)</DIV>

[Jay]

When duo'ing with my monk companion or pulling for her while she's tanking, I fire Confusion Arrow and then spam Evade like mad until the mob is within range. After Evade comes Surveil, but by that point she's usually taunted off me and is already gaining hate anyway. So add that to the list of situations where you would want Evade to take effect outside of melee range, and it has nothing to with pulling aggro off the tank while standing out in BFE.

[Te]

<P>You are supposed to use deaggro skills in preventive purpose not after you get aggro.</P> <P>Thats the good thing about evade, first some shots then evade to lower your aggro then go back to dmg then back to deaggro to put it down in place again.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway this is the skill, thing whatever as ranger I want changed first of all. Deaggro is what makes it possible to do damage without getting aggro and not having Elude (lvl 60 version) working at bow range is a problem.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Teksun]

<P>A lot of times I'll use evade like this: Turn OFF Stream of arrows, hit evade and surveil, then go ahead and use hidden fire as he runs back to the MT. </P> <P> </P> <P>I know evade should be used as a preventive measure, but on some mobs it isnt really worth it. Depending on the group, I'd even say MOST mobs don't require it. It's all in the timing...</P>

[Te]

<P>Problem with detaunting after you got aggro and loose aggro by that is that most likely mob is going for next dps or healer in aggro line.</P> <P>If you able to time it so well that your tank can taunt at the millisecond you detaunt and he gets aggro back then fine you got a good work with a tank you regulary group with. Allthough if you detaunt your aggro of then you need to work with whole group and most likely will need to tell em to time it with you too.</P> <P> </P> <P>In generall its better to use it as a preventive metod.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Editing in this: Dont mean to be offensive, if your way works then fine alls well. But if its not working then its probl time to prevent aggro instead<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Tevf on <span class=date_text>11-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 AM</span>

[Zutan]

In a group I try to stand around minimum bow range, which happens to be max melee range in most cases (some mobs vary).  So at most the mob takes a couple steps to me and I step towards the tank.  I can usually use Slip etc even from that range also. <div></div>

[Jay]

I use it as preventative maintenance when I'm really concerned about pulling aggro or when I need to go full burn and am working up to it, but more often than not they get used like Tex says - as a response to drawing aggro. And 98% of the time, I pull aggro, hit Evade and Surveil, and the MT is taunting simultaneously - so the mob goes straight back to the tank. I've gotten comments from some tanks to the effect of "at least when you pull aggro, it comes right back off." Personally very thankful for these skills, however you use them.

[Saracyn]

<DIV>I find that it is often not only useful to stand at max bow range, but even vital.  When fighting a mob with an AoE stun effect I find max bow range and the healers stand right by me.  This keeps us out of the range of the stun effect so I can continue to dish out the damage and the healers can dispel the stun on the tank and/or melee fighters.  I very rarely move up to melee range as i find that my DPS suffers greatly in melee combat.  Which means that in order to control my aggro issues I have to control my DPS or perform the deaggro dance.  Luckily I play with the same people on a regular basis and we know eachothers play styles very well...aggro is rarely an issue for me anymore.  Still would be nice to be able to evade from bow range...</DIV>