Quit Crying and Open your Eyes

[hawk987]

I am a 50 ranger on the Toxx server and I think all the people crying about the changes is rediculous. Here is the ranger improvements: DPS(damage per second) {adept 3-master}  I used to clock on average from about 180- 230 dps NOW im clocking at on average 460-510 dps PVP(player verses player)  Rangers hands down are now one of the best PVP classes. Stuns , invis, and bow arts enable us to beat any class. Im currently #1 ranked PVP kill wise on my server. Aggro - Yes I am drawing a lot more aggro now, but wait maybe thats cause my dps has jumped so much. I like the dps increase and i can easily lose aggro no problem using one of our 3 aggro reducing spells. DD- My direct damage spells are hitting very high now.  My Storm/Hidden hitting 2k+ and Culling/Debilitating/Crippling hitting 1.2k+ Dots-The new offence stance is great make use of it and use your bow you will proc like mad (get adept 3) P.S.  We also now have a haste which stacks with haste gear (gotta love it)                          So quit crying and look at whats been gained! Miller 50 Ranger Toxx Dominion <div></div>

[AvarVr]

<P>I completely Agree and im only 37... Ranger is rocking right now IMO.</P> <P>Can you elaborate on PvP Tactics?</P> <P>Thanks!</P>

[hawk987]

PVP secret =) Open with: Cheap Shot(6 sec stun) back up and launch Triple shot(not sure what its called at your lvl) stealth and wait for cheap shot to be back up Hit with Hidden Fire and then imediatly stun with cheap shot Hit with sharp shot and invis Rinse and repat mixing in debiitating arrow and Storm DONT go melee youl get [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] whooped by any fighter ALWAYS run poisons offence stance and agil haste buff I down caster and scouts in about 10-20 sec Fighters in about 1-3 mins Healers in 1-2 mins I rarely even get damaged Miller 50 Ranger Toxx Dominion <div></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>I apologize (in advance) if I may sound a <EM>wee</EM> bit irritated.</P> <P>I am a 36th level Ranger.  </P> <P>I am not new to MMORPGs.  I am not a child. (Indeed, I would wager that I am older than most, if not all, here).</P> <P>I have been doing this a long time (since the first MUDs).  My RPG bona fides trace back to "Chainmail" (the predessessor to D&D).</P> <P>I have always played a Ranger; (from table-top to MMORPGs).  I try to study my class, and to be proficient at it.</P> <P>Which brings me to the topic of my post:</P> <P>Many here, (myself included), have come to seek advice.  We are confused, and genuinely want to play our class well.  We have presented our observations and concerns, and are trying to find the correct path to follow.  We acknowledge our lack of expertise, and defer to those with more knowledge and experience than ourselves.</P> <P>Many here, (/bows to Jay42, et al), have been helpful, understanding, and patient.  They have offered useful advice to young, or mid-level Rangers.  Thank you.  </P> <P>Others, (particularly level 50ish level Rangers), have been less than helpful, and have been condescending and patronizing; (If not insulting).</P> <P>I would ask for a little patience and forebearance on the part of my fellow Rangers;  we are not necessarily whining, we are stating our real concerns as we see them from levels you may have completely forgotten about.  </P> <P>Mentor down to level 23-25, or level 32-36, again and play for awhile.  Then give us the benefit of your experience.  </P> <P>We look to you, the masters of our profession, to be mentors and tutors to those of us still trying to find our way.</P> <P>Thank you, </P> <P> </P> <P>Mary</P> <P> </P>

[Ciaran]

What stealth are you using?  They see through everything I have....  I am so confused. <div></div>

[Jay]

<DIV>I usually try and be pretty diplomatic around here, but I'm gonna set the kid-gloves aside for a moment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hawk, do me a favor and grow up before you post again. You have no idea what a level 20-40 ranger is experiencing right now, do you? No, and until you play one at that level (even mentoring isn't going to give you an accurate picture) you're not going to have any clue. Yeah, we were there once, but we're not there <EM>now</EM>, post-revamp. I assume you have a modicum of intelligence, so I'm surprised you don't understand that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're 50. We've played our characters for months, and many of us have had the good fortune to accumulate some nice gear and good skill upgrades along the way. Our younger brothers and sisters haven't had those opportunities. They don't have the CAs we do, either. If you seriously cannot comprehend how the changes would affect a 20-40 ranger differently than a 40-50 ranger, I'm surprised you can find the power button to turn on your PC, let alone actually log into the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So kindly take that attitude and shove it. Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, you don't have a clue what they're dealing with. Don't blithely dismiss their legitimate concerns as "crying" and tell them to just get over it. That doesn't cut it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ironically, I agree with you regarding the changes - I know our class has been significantly improved, but there are some serious problems for low-level rangers. Our task now is to work on understanding that issue and bringing it to the attention of the Devs. I'm sure you don't really care if anyone other than you is having a problem in the game, but many of us do care about the class as a whole. If you'd rather not help us move the ranger class forward for the good of all, that's fine - I'm not asking that of you unless you feel compelled to do so - but the attitude displayed in your OP has no place on this forum. I hope you can change it.</DIV>

[Akam]

Unfortunatly, what he says is quite right, although the method of delivery is questionable.  Level 30+ rangers had a HUGE bump in DPS as well, I can absolutly slaughter solo groups of 3 in under 10 seconds usually, there's no reason why a 30+ ranger should be having any trouble.  Now, from 20-30, well I really can't comment, I did that before the changes.  However, before the changes I can say that I didn't really have any problems, either.  But even if 20-30 is difficult now, at least you know you have something to look forward to. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Mogbe]

I can comment for the 20-30, we suck. A solo blue mob killed me. I went back and fought hi, again and won with about %33 life left. I don't know what changes, but I have asked for help in other threads. I can't survive like this. My attacks miss too much, and I'm not even using a defensive stance. Appparently somewhere around lvl 30, things get fixed. Did they screw up something on carbonite armor? Maybe when we jump from steel/carbonite to fey iron/fey steel, things get better. In the mean time, could the high level rangers not make the situation worse for the low levels by saying there isn't any problems. YOU don't have problems, but the rest of us do. <div></div>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>We sucked 20-29 before the LU too.  Sounds like not much was done to improve this.  It's at lvl 30 when things change.  The difference between a 29 ranger and a 30 ranger is phenominal.  LU 13 was suppose to make the transition through the tiers happen smoothly. But....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't know what to tell you Mogbert.  Except to maybe take advantage of the exp bonus and grind it out to 30.  As you advance, you'll get more bow CAs.  That's what makes the difference.  Just make sure you ask a jeweler in your guild to make you the app4 skills.  They cost next to nothing to make and are just about the same quality as a adept 1 skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm doing the same right now.  I've put aside my artisan training while the adventure bonus is in so I can get to that elusive lvl 40.  Good luck.</DIV>

[Mogbe]

Thanks, I'm trying, but the only groups I've been in could only take solo mobs, the group mobs tend to kill us (yes, they are white). I didn't think I sucked before... I mean I wasn't uber, but I could hold my own against a yellow. Now, I keep dying to the first blue mob in harclave. Really hoping they are fixing it today. I have some vacation time and want to grind. <div></div>

[DeusMachina]

<P>Yeah, I keep hearing that life at 20-30 is hard for Rangers right now, worst part being that it can be difficult to pay for the upgrades that could really help. Unfortunately, the only advice I can offer is to be very careful in the selection of your mobs. Find a spot where you can safely pull solo mobs, and play around a bit. Some of the old standbys still apply too, like opening with a stealthed back attack at max range. As you get higher levels, you won't always need to do this, but it makes sure you get your max damage done out front. Keep your gear upgraded, and most importantly, grab those Adept1s as soon as you can! Cheapshot as often as it is up, if nothing else, the mob can't hit you for 6 seconds. Snares are working now, use them to slow mobs so you can get that extra ranged CA in. Always run the best poisons you can. If you're expecting short, violent fights, get one with a high DD. I'm finding now when I'm soloing that the key to my success is to just kill mobs as fast and brutally as I can, as I can't take a hit like I used to. I know that these are pretty general ideas, but I'm not in the shoes of a 20-30 Ranger, and while I can empathize, I won't pretend to be able to tell you exactly how to get it done. To any 20-30 Rangers out there, if you've played around, and have gotten it down, PLEASE post to help out your fellows.</P> <P>Candida Razorleaf 48 Ranger 35 Woodworker</P>

[Tarac]

<DIV>Well actually I think that the improvements help rangers in their lower 20s as well. I have a level 24 Ranger and absolutely love the changes. I can easily fight blue solo mobs. Usually I start with either Back Shot or Wounding Arrow and then try to get off another 2 arrows (sorry forgot the name). Then a quick HO which decreases the defense. Set both DoTs. Then stun and 1-2 flanking attacks. Usually a blue solo con doesn´t see my flanking attack, cuz he went down before I had time to get so far.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don´t flame me. That´s the way it works for me and I don´t think I´m some sort of uber-player. Just my 2 cp ...</DIV>

[arkkon]

<DIV>Many t3(20-29) rangers are still learning there class.  I wouldnt expect them to know anything.</DIV> <DIV>Id rather have soe work on the higher end than the lower end levels which take a week to get through.  </DIV> <DIV>Of course its going to be harder 20 - 29, you dont have half of your skills, you have a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty bow , crappy poisons , bad weapons.  Its what we all went through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pathfinder Sakir Shadow</DIV> <DIV>The Downward Spiral</DIV> <DIV>Lavastorm Server</DIV> <DIV>52 Ranger</DIV>

[sprogn]

<P>For Rangers 20-30, the single most important thing I would recommend is getting Survival Instincts at Adept 1 - MINIMUM.  You should be hitting close to 50% avoidance - if not, get some cheap Agility gear.</P> <P>With survival instincts, I had the time to learn my bow tactics and was more than able to stand toe to toe with almost any NPC class.</P>

[Rikare]

I really love my Ranger now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cron]

As Jay said, us higher levels don't really know what you lowers are experiencing.  So with that in mind, I'm going to throw some random thoughts out. First,  please... if you are having problems or having success, please post your current level and maybe the tactics you take to achieve or fail.  It's hard to pinpoint specific problems for people without this information. Second,  I've been playing my Ranger since May so the lower levels are still pretty fresh in my mind.  I seem to recall thinking that 20-30 was one big hell level.  Everything opened up for me around 26-28.  Once I hit 30, I never looked back.  Don't presume that all your problems are because of the revamp.  I know many of you are drawing comparisions between what you used to fight two weeks ago to what you are fighting now, but I'm not even sure you can do that.  The oranges I use to fight now seem to be yellow down-arrow.  So that's a pretty big difference in ranks.  If you were fighting whites previously, that would be a blue down-arrow now.  I could easily be wrong about any of this and please feel free to correct me. Third, it's been my experience so far that the higher level adepts are a good bit better than the App 4's.  It  appears to me that they improved the gap a bit better.  I've been replacing my Apps with Adepts that previously didn't seem worth the cost of improving.  Check out your spells and see the differences now.  Spells you previously overlooked and/or did not upgrade because of the slight difference *may* have changed and you might be missing out on that. Fourth, I'm doing well as a 45 Ranger and I think I have to owe a large part of that to the fact that I upgraded my armor to the next best every level.  It's expensive but I was always looking for that next piece of armor that gave me an advantage.  If you have several pieces or any for that matter that were green or blue prior to patch, you were just getting by.  You can't realize the full potential of the Ranger in crappy armor and the revamp makes that point even more clear.  (Jay: You touched on this concerning PVP in our /tells.)  However, it isn't HUGELY expensive and with careful shopping or making contacts with crafters, you can do well.  I just bought a piece of armor that cost me 12g and when I sold my armor back to the vendor, I got 6g for it.  Essentially an upgrade at 45 for a mere 6g!  That might sound like a lot but at my level, you can earn this very easily.  At your level, it shouldn't cost but a gold or two to upgrade and you should make 50s or more selling things back. Fifth, I use poisons.  All the time.  For me it's worth the expense.  I buy crafted vials from a very good chemist whom I had the luck of meeting when I was in my 20's.  She was already in her 40's as a crafter but thought nothing of making my lowly poisons for cheap.  I've been with her ever since.  If you are on Butcherblock, give Clarah a /tell and tell her Narsan sent you. So basically my advice to all you having troubles is to first look at improving your CA's with adepts, looking at your armor, using poisons often, and taking a look at your new place in the world.  Above all, figure out how to adapt and overcome.  Maybe there are huge problems with your level.  Talking about it and starting a dialog with the Devs will get these things fixed, at some point.  Do your best to struggle through it.  Maybe you need to group for a few lvls to make that next tier.  I know it sucks to say that but I've done it pre-revamp and I'm just now slowly becoming a grouper (not the fish).  For the record, I'm starting to play in guild groups because of the fun factor not because I have to.  This is all a part of the overcoming part. <div></div>

[leafnin]

<P>Agreed  20-29 is not easy becasue we have to earn most of the bow skills that make up our class later(25-29), unlike other classes who get their class skills starting at 20.  Till you get Triple shot it's really rough.  Getting the best upgrade for your stances is something to look into or forward to.  I'd recommend getting a group through these levels.  Soloing is doable, but slower.  Pick your targets wisely.</P> <P> </P> <P>Falcon</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Omnikain]

<div></div>I posted this in the feedback forum, but I figure it'll work here too.  This is for you 20-29 rangers that are having trouble.  I did for awhile too, until I figured out what needed to be done.<hr>Ok, my ranger is only 24, but here's what I was figuring out last night.I should preface it by saying I gained 3 levels last night.  Yeah, last night.  Like 4 hours worth of playing.  I realize that this is b/c of the xp bonus currently in effect, but I gained all 3 of those levels solo grinding.Whoever it was up there that mentioned Cheap Shot is dead on.  This is your new bread and butter.  Things may change in the higher levels, but I seriously doubt it.  Here's what I was doing last night.Pull with a high damage, long'ish casting time bow CA.  For me, it's Wounding Arrow, I dunno what the name is later on.  Immediately follow it by a multi-hitting short casting time bow CA.  As soon as the mob gets to you, trigger your HO and do Cheap Shot.  If the mob is ^ or higher TURN OFF ATTACK before the move ends.  If it's just normal solo, don't worry about it.  Move behind the target and fire off your CA that must be done from the side or behind that puts you into stealth.  Immediately go into Shadowflame (not Shadow Lunge as that will end your HO) since you are already stealthed, and then finish your HO with Impale or whatever you prefer.  If you do it fast enough the mob <i>will remain stunned through the entire process from Cheap Shot to finishing your HO.  </i>What that means is, you probably aren't going to be annoyingly resisted on your HO finisher.Now melee until your HO is ready to trigger again.  Trigger, use the Dirty Tricks line (I think that was the name of it...it makes the mob fall to their knees, but I don't think it really stuns them) and finish your HO.  By the time your HO is ready to trigger again, Cheap Shot will again be available.That's my strategy.  It worked flawlessly for those 3 levels last night.  Give it a try, you never know.<hr><div></div>

[Jay]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <P></P> <HR> Omnikain wrote:<BR>Ok, my ranger is only 24, but here's what I was figuring out last night.<BR><BR>I should preface it by saying I gained 3 levels last night.  Yeah, last night.  Like 4 hours worth of playing.  I realize that this is b/c of the xp bonus currently in effect, but I gained all 3 of those levels solo grinding.<BR><BR>Whoever it was up there that mentioned Cheap Shot is dead on.  This is your new bread and butter.  Things may change in the higher levels, but I seriously doubt it.  Here's what I was doing last night.<BR><BR>Pull with a high damage, long'ish casting time bow CA.  For me, it's Wounding Arrow, I dunno what the name is later on.  Immediately follow it by a multi-hitting short casting time bow CA.  As soon as the mob gets to you, trigger your HO and do Cheap Shot.  If the mob is ^ or higher TURN OFF ATTACK before the move ends.  If it's just normal solo, don't worry about it.  Move behind the target and fire off your CA that must be done from the side or behind that puts you into stealth.  Immediately go into Shadowflame (not Shadow Lunge as that will end your HO) since you are already stealthed, and then finish your HO with Impale or whatever you prefer.  If you do it fast enough the mob <I>will remain stunned through the entire process from Cheap Shot to finishing your HO.  </I>What that means is, you probably aren't going to be annoyingly resisted on your HO finisher.<BR><BR>Now melee until your HO is ready to trigger again.  Trigger, use the Dirty Tricks line (I think that was the name of it...it makes the mob fall to their knees, but I don't think it really stuns them) and finish your HO.  By the time your HO is ready to trigger again, Cheap Shot will again be available.<BR><BR>That's my strategy.  It worked flawlessly for those 3 levels last night.  Give it a try, you never know.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Definitely some very key tactics, and you're well on your way if you're already mastering them in your mid-20s. You'll be using these same techniques on into your 50s, but you'll just have more and better tools at your disposal. Congrats on refining your style so succesfully, and thanks for sharing that with the others.</P>

[Omnikain]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div> <p>Definitely some very key tactics, and you're well on your way if you're already mastering them in your mid-20s. You'll be using these same techniques on into your 50s, but you'll just have more and better tools at your disposal. Congrats on refining your style so succesfully, and thanks for sharing that with the others.</p><hr></blockquote>Thanks!  I'm definitely enjoying the class a lot more now than I did pre-revamp. Btw, for folks that are having trouble soloing in Splitpaw especially, I'm going to have to at least partially agree and say that there is something screwy with Splitpaw.  Using the tactics I outlined above, I was able to solo level 26-27 mobs (solo, no arrow) in TS and Nek.  Some of them were close calls, but I would win. However, just a little while ago, I was abducted and sent to the captive audience zone.  The closest gnoll to the cage was level 24 (solo, no arrow) and I couldn't touch him.  My CA's were continually parried/resisted and he hit way harder than anything I had attempted in the overland zones.   I think Splitpaw mobs might need some looking into.</span><div></div>

[hawk987]

In no way was i trying to be incensitive to the lower lvls, however maybe they just dont know the proper stategy to solo with. Try: Pulling with a big damage atk Snaring Kiting with pure range auto atk Cheap shot (wil stun a heroic ///) as long as you do no damage breaks as soon as damaged. Solo / and lower will not break if damaged While its stunned you got 6 seconds to give it all you got Snare and kite stun rinse and repeat Cheap shot is a low lvl spell use it to get off some big damage. If the mob is solo then get 2 backstabs off if it heroic get some badass bow damage off and then kite works every time. Miller 52 Ranger Toxx Dominion <div></div>

[Stormykat]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ciaran II wrote:What stealth are you using?  They see through everything I have....  I am so confused. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Hi Ciaran I'm using my Hunt as my stealth - red mobs will see thru your invis.. period Other mobs.. it depends.. epics will see you and many mobs that have "scout" "outlook" in their name may see you also but most mobs will not - you just need to avert the danger carefully </span><div></div>

[Halade]

Just a quick note on Harclave, I still do this because it's just faster... Instead of fighting your way to the buff, stealth to it.  It's slow running but still takes less time than fighting.  Whenever I do a run there (mostly for $$ now) I stealth to the buff, and head back to the enterance, kill everything while working my way back to kill the spawned mob, then kill everything on my way out.  I've found it is best to stealth to the tunnel/ramp directly across where the up, no, and down arrow mob is.  You can fight there with lower risk of drawing adds.  <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this helps the lower lvl's who are in there for some xp.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing you can do, grab a tank or another scout and clear the upper tunnels.  The xp is faster and greater than you get in harclave.  </DIV>

[hawk987]

If i have a complaint its just that. Hunt suks compared to my old training ability at lvl 40. It slow as hell and it more than often just as safe to run uninvis than invis because every [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing sees you. Miller 53 Ranger Toxx Dominion <div></div>

[hawk987]

Hunt iI use i duels only see stealth class is Fury i believe. Miller 53 Ranger Toxx Dominion <div></div>