High LvL Ranger on Beta/Test?

[Memory]

<DIV>Are there any high LvL Ranger on Test/Beta?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some feedback like</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=51</A></DIV> <DIV>would be very nice.</DIV>

[Merkad]

<div></div>In case you guys are not/have not been checking, it seems that there is at least one high level Ranger on test (who knew?). This individual posted a pretty basic synopsis on our revamp (which is much appreciated). This is his post... For the most part I would like to thank soe for a great job they have done with rangers after the combat revamp. However there are still a few things that need to be fixed. As a ranger I have many talents, from shooting my bow to running in an going full out melee. However with the new combat changes it is harder to do just that. For example;In a group or raid if I am in melee combat amd I wanted to use my ranged attacks I would run backwards while shooting my arrows to maximize my damage output and on the way back into melee range I would finish my round of arrow attacks. This is no longer possible. With the combat changes our range attacks can no longer be used while running which hurts us in our ways of dps. I know this is for the pure reason to avoid kiting mobs, but honestly could't you just require us to face the mob? Also the cast times on my ranged abilities are insane.... Culling the herd has had its cast time increased from .5 seconds to 2 seconds, Tripple fire has had its cast time increased from .5 seconds to 2 seconds, Miracle Arrow has had its cast time increased from .5 seconds to 2 seconds, Dehibilitating Arrow has had its cast time increased from .5 seconds to 2 seconds, Hidden Fire has had its cast time Increased from .5 seconds to 5 seconds. These seem a bit high and yes I know there were adjusted to meet the new damage output however they may be a bit long considering everything. I would however like to show some of the good aspects of the ranger class balanace. Miracle Arrow was 300 dmg now 1000 dmg Hidden Fire was 550 now 900 - 1400 Debilitating arrow was 400 now 664-1177 Storm of arrows was 800 - 1500 now 1300 - 2200 This is what I have noticed so far, I will post more when I play around with it more. Hmm, not quoting right.. oh well, anyways, good and bad to be sure. Merkades, 50th Ranger. Tradeskilling sucks, 32nd Jeweler. <div></div>

[Bromious]

<P>Interesting. My playstyle won't like the no firing the bow while running. While I don't kite I can never seem to stay still during fights. That will definitely be an adjustment. My first impression of the dps changes are that we will now be doing more damage in bursts instaed of a constant sustained attack. I have to wonder how hard it will be to avoid agro while in group with these big hitters. I have a hard enough time as it is trying to maximize dps and not get the 50 sk tanking [Removed for Content] at me :smileywink:</P> <P>From what I've read the poison system will be a lot clearer to manage (from reading the Assassin boards), which is a positive. I'm looking forward to seeing the changes myself when they go live (or about a week after they go Live :smileywink: :smileywink: *nudge* *nudge* ) Should be interesting to see how smoothly everything goes with the expansion and combat changes taking place the same week.</P>

[Aroumon]

Just doing what I can ) <div></div>

[Jay]

<P>Much obliged, Aroumon.</P> <P>I gotta say, the inability to fire bow arts while moving coupled with the quadrupling of the cast times for those arts is a big double-whammy. Even if you couldn't kite, at least you could cram in a good 3-4 bow CAs on a stationary pull, and the mob has that much less health when it reaches you. Doesn't look like that will be possible anymore - maybe 2 CAs total before it's time to pretend-tank? Rhanin or Aroumon, how is this looking on your end? Those recast boots feel like a big hit to our solo ability from where I'm standing.</P>

[Gailstryd]

<DIV>Our melee has been retooled and amped up enough to compensate and make our pretend tanking actually pretty good.  We have a new defensive type buff which will be great for soloing or even the occasional off tanking and we have a much greater use for cheap shot against solo con mobs since it actually stuns them for a set amount of time letting us get off a couple of good backstabs or back up into ranged for a shot.  Our solo game under the revamp is in good order even if we lose some of how frequently we use our bows.  We are still better off with our bows than the EQ1 ranger was lol.</DIV>

[Bromious]

<DIV>Wow very nice. I missed where Cheapshot was changed to a set duration. That will be very nice indeed. Did they upgrade the cheapshot line as well or is it still a grey con skill? One thing that does worry me is finding the "sweet spot" for melee and bow damage while grouped. I got to be fairly decent at finding the spot in its current form. I know I read a post somewhere that it was tougher to find, I'm just too lazy to read back and find it at this point :smileytongue: .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks you guys for letting us who aren't on test or in beta know what's up. Your efforts are appreciated :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Gailstryd]

<DIV>Cheap Shot isn't a new line unfortunately it is just the same old grey spell and the set stun duration only works on solo con mobs, it is the same as it has always been on anything not solo (not sure if it lands on epics now or not).  I was the one who made the post about the sweet spot being harder to find in a different area and it wasn't hugely hard to find but seemed tougher than before maybe it's because I can't move as much when I'm using my bow so I have to kind of stutter step.  There for awhile in beta there was a bug that let you use your bow while soloing kind of like we got point blank but we didnt hehe.  It was a bug and since has been fixed, but it was kind of neat while it lasted even if it was a buggy bug /ponder lol.  But when they fixed that bug they may have further blurred the sweet spot zone.</DIV>

[cyres]

<P>Well if they took away our ability to move and shoot, then did they replace the slow effects on alot of our abilities to something useful?</P> <P>If they didn't then what's the point?</P>

[cyres]

<DIV>Do we get root now? Since they are basically making us from what it sounds like a melee/wizard type who stands back and does damage, do we also get roots since we can't cast on the run like wizards/warlocks?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did they replace the slow effects on the abilities with root instead?</DIV>

[Johnd]

<DIV>So in short. We get more damage a hit, but same damage over time. I am sure they make the delay of casting compair well to the increased damage.</DIV> <DIV>We loose our ability to run from our monsters, but we get more auto-attack damage back for it. This also means our Alpha strike is gonna reduce a lot.</DIV> <DIV>I believe I have all the points there that are gonna change for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This all sounds fair, but its a huge change in playstyle tho. I do get a creepy feeling I will become a solo assassin and in a team with a tank some godlike damage dealer. And as I must say I love the idea of being really usefull in a team cause of my damage ( I never done much raids, but I can imagin this does make us a lot more wanted ), I also tend to solo a lot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact that we get a lot more 1 on 1 time with our monsters, does that also mean that agility is gonna count more on avoidance ? We are still paper tanks and I love the idea of dodging my way trough monsters. Other then being able to take more punches ( I would be a fighter class if I liked that ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact of us loosing our major Alpha strike with damage ( I could fire of a lot of shots before the monsters reach me ), is there a reason that its not the cooldown that is made longer instead of dropping our alpha in this way ? We do tend to get a lot more like a wizzard. Slower but more damage a hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also with the new arena upcoming, doesn't this mean we become a pretty sitting duck out there ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a few things I wonder ( and fear ) .. Any around to explain me where my thinking flaw is make me feel at peace again ? And don't get me wrong. I think they are doing a great job, but I wonder why they made us look more like other professions instead of making the professions more different.</DIV>

[cyres]

<P>To me it sounds like we are a very weak version of wizards now. </P> <P>Lets see for one we can't move and cast/use abilities. We can't fire our bow abilities with things in our face (wizards can). We can maybe get of 1-2 ranged abilities before something gets to us. We can't root, and then back up and shoot. (wizards can). </P> <P>So we basically now either HAVE to group, or we fire one to two abilities at something, and then we from that point till it dies, or we do we use auto attack, and pretend we are a tank. To me this is not a ranger. To me this is just wrong. Alot of us played this class to solo. That is what a ranger does. We picked this class to use ranged bows. That is what rangers do. This sounds very bad for us. I have no motivation to continue growing my ranger since he is no longer one with the changes. I will still see what it's like once it goes live, but I don't think from what I hear it will be something I like.</P> <P> </P>

[Johnd]

<DIV>Maybe its an option to make us fire our bow even from up front ? I don't see we get that option added. Finding the softspot in solo encounters can be hard, cause monsters tend to step in just a bit closer then our softspot.</DIV> <DIV>And by increasing our casting 'fumbling with your bow' time, it should make more sense that it can be used up close.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A worse but still nice trade-off would be to give us a damage reduction when the monster is at melee distance or a chance to disturbe our casting. But taking away a bowskill from a ranger ( and our kite ability ) is like telling a doc s/he can't heal anymore when in combat itself. Docs are allowed to have 15 min fights with heroics and come out glorious. Why can't rangers be like that too ?</DIV>

[Dirtgirl]

<P><FONT color=#ff9933>Well I for one am looking foward to seeing the changes go live. Up to this point, I have been a pretty successful soloer, but I plan on getting in on the raid scene now, and as it stands, Rangers are not a class the raids are looking for. I am hoping that with these changes, my abilities may be a little more sought after. i have always liked the idea of Ranger being Off-Tank, and with increased damage and avoidance, we shuld be masters of keeping the squishies alive. I know I have already saved my favorite Wiz and Warden on many occasions. Hopefully, the skill change will still allow us to pull and pass aggro effectively. That is, in my opinion, a strong roll for Scout classes on the raid scene in addition to our DPS. I like to multi-task, and this is a pretty good class for that.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>And, I heard some really good things outta test last night about the Scout's prowess in the dual system.....8-)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>Ooooh how paybacks are a bytch!</FONT></P>

[Lego]

<DIV>I hear what everyone on this thread is saying, but to me the loss of kiting is no big deal.  Hardier melee is imo a good thing.  If you don't have to kite to kill something why would you choose to do so?  The only reason I can come up with is a lot of rangers still want the ability to kill epics, heroic nameds, etc.  Considering that ability (for all classes) is being all but removed from the game I don't see what the big deal is.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kiting is boring, expensive, and I for one won't miss it a tad, even though I will no longer get chest drops from every named in a zone where I have a tiny little amount of room.    </DIV>

[theorbell]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dirtgirl wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>Well I for one am looking foward to seeing the changes go live. Up to this point, I have been a pretty successful soloer, but I plan on getting in on the raid scene now, and as it stands, Rangers are not a class the raids are looking for. I am hoping that with these changes, my abilities may be a little more sought after. i have always liked the idea of Ranger being Off-Tank, and with increased damage and avoidance, we shuld be masters of keeping the squishies alive. I know I have already saved my favorite Wiz and Warden on many occasions. Hopefully, the skill change will still allow us to pull and pass aggro effectively. That is, in my opinion, a strong roll for Scout classes on the raid scene in addition to our DPS. I like to multi-task, and this is a pretty good class for that.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>And, I heard some really good things outta test last night about the Scout's prowess in the dual system.....8-)</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933>Ooooh how paybacks are a bytch!</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not Wanted in raids?  I'm lucky enough to be with a very enlightened raiding guild that understands the value of rangers, not least of which is to be able to damage encounter mobs without being close enough to get slammed by the named's AoEs.  We have 3 rangers in our raiding force, 2 of us are in most of the raids, sometimes all 3 of us.  I am the highest DKP earner in our guild (me a lowly ranger and no i'm not the guild or raid leader =)  </P> <P>Rangers usually get the important job of taking down lesser adds (^ and ^^) that pummel the tank while the main group pounds the named.  I've also been Main Assist on a few raids, directing traffic for the other squishie types on which mobs to take down next.   IMO, the loss of kiting is not such a big deal for dedicated raiders, though i understand this could significantly affect the game for avid soloers.  I keep my fingers crossed that the kiting nerf doesnt ruin the ability to solo, after all, i have to grind to 60, with or without groups =)</P>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Merkades wrote:<BR> <BR>With the combat changes our range attacks can no longer be used while running which hurts us in our ways of dps. I know this is for the pure reason to avoid kiting mobs, but honestly could't you just require us to face the mob?<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>My one worry about this is that a large majority of our combat arts are, of course, ranged. If we don't have a root (I haven't read yet that we do) and we can't use the ranged CAs while on the move... how am I going to use them when soloing? Or is it that we only get to use our cool ranged arts in groups. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was hoping they'd get rid of the minimum range for at least our CAs, if not the ranged Auto Attack too.</DIV><p>Message Edited by jwmaynar on <span class=date_text>08-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[Johnd]

<DIV>Kiting is boring ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why make a ranger ? Get assassin or a fighter if you hate running around... Kinda confused to see that remark in a ranger forum.</DIV>

[Gailstryd]

We have not gotten a root though it would be nice to see us get a line of roots with some limited usefullness on them to help flesh out are archery more.  Though with cheap shot being a 6 second stun that runs the entire duration on solo mobs that is pretty much a root, stun them and back pedal for a bowshot.

[Rahmn]

<DIV>I'm looking forward to the changes, since alot of places arent very kite friendly.  I just hope some of the refresh times on our Longshank line of spells are increased from instant cast to maybe .5-1 sec so we can combo them into the next backstab attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lego]

<DIV>Yeah Johndoo, kiting IS boring.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only thing not boring about it is the possible reward at the end.  I don't know any (although you are obviously an exception, and more power to ya) person that would rather kite a mob than kill solos faster given that a ranger could do it reliably.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kiting heroics and epics, different story, the action itself is pretty boring, but the possibility of nice or at least decent loot at the end gives it more flavor.</DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Johndoo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Kiting is boring ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why make a ranger ? Get assassin or a fighter if you hate running around... Kinda confused to see that remark in a ranger forum. <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So you made a ranger in order to kite, then? That was the only reason?</P> <P>Or you just liked it b/c it enabled you to exploit the game and take down red ^^ named mobs that no soloer had any business killing?</P> <P>I personally won't miss the actual process of kiting, my only concern is our solo viability. Improving my kiting skills was an interesting challenge, and I enjoyed the process of learning to excel at a technique that I was essentially forced to use, but no, I didn't find the actually kiting to be inherently entertaining and fun. I won't miss it, as long as we don't become completely crippled as soloers.</P>

[Konth]

I also didnt just make a ranger to kite.  But you have got to admit it is an advantage we have over most any scout class.  If they take this away its putting us back in teh "norm" and well in my opinion i would like to have advantages.  Im sure there will still be ways to kite but it will just take time to rethink everything and adjust. 

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Konthek wrote:<BR>I also didnt just make a ranger to kite.  But you have got to admit it is an advantage we have over most any scout class.  If they take this away its putting us back in teh "norm" and well in my opinion i would like to have advantages.  Im sure there will still be ways to kite but it will just take time to rethink everything and adjust.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You really think we rangers should have some inherent advantage over other scout classes? Why??</P> <P>I don't want to be "better" than any other class, I just want the playing field to be fair and balanced. (Hehe...lil Fox joke for ya.) I want to fulfill the purpose for which I was designed: ranged DPS. And so far, it sounds like that won't change, and will in fact get better as our overall DPS should increase. </P>

[Konth]

Jay you do make a good point we dont need to be a dominant class or have an advantage but i just see it would be nice too.  Becuase i also for a great deal of time played a ranger in eq1 just old habbits i suppose. 

[cyres]

Sure we don't expect to be dominant, but alot of us took on ranger to use our bow. Not all of us group, and after the changes you will be 1/4 the power you can be if you solo. This punishes the players that want to play a ranger solo. I took up ranger to solo, and then do decent ranged damage in a group when needed.

[chanaho]

    When I hear about pros and cons of kiting I get the feeling there is just one type being talked about and that is to grab a yellow ^^ (or red) and run in circles shooting arrows until it drops. I actually never kite this way as, like alot of others, it is boring to me and a waste of my time. Others enjoy it and more power to them. It is an art and takes alot of practice.    My kiting type I like to call survival (I would bet this affects a majority of solo rangers) and that is to pick out a target, get 3 staionary range shots off, backup while firing off the shoot while running skills, then stop and mellee until some running range shots pop back on. Rinse and repeat.      I call this a survival tactic as if i can only get 2-3 shots before melee and can no longer backup and shoot guess who's going to be evacing/reviving to solo no con blues/whites while praying all the time for my PGT to proc a damage resist and my imbued armor to pump my hp up 45-50 hp every 4-5 secs..     At least this style allows me to take on 1-2 yellow solo no cons with a fair fighting chance and some 3-4 yellow single down mobs ...all so i can complete quests. Is this an exploit or a method of survival?      Im not against the revamp, although my survival method will no longer be usable, as long as i am given  something I can use to survive and not have to wait until my targets are all green. But I will not be happy if my bow is no longer relevant while soloing. <div></div>

[Lego]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> cyressa wrote:<BR> Sure we don't expect to be dominant, but alot of us took on ranger to use our bow. Not all of us group, and after the changes you will be 1/4 the power you can be if you solo. This punishes the players that want to play a ranger solo. I took up ranger to solo, and then do decent ranged damage in a group when needed.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree, I solo exclusively with my ranger with the exception of HQ quests and some other odds and ends.  The point I've been trying to make in this thread and a couple others is we aren't losing our bow capability.  We're <EM>probably </EM>losing our ability to kite, which to me, and some other posters is good.  From what I've seen from Test these changes are not lessening our ability to use a bow so badly that we can't xp, solo or otherwise.  </P> <P>I suppose, however, all this is subject to change and probably will, but I like the changes and personally look forward to them across the board.</P>

[Kasandria]

I solo a lot especially on my ranger.  I never even tried a red mob (well since like level ten).  Why not just speed up mobs that are epic so we can't kite them and leave us the ability to BE rangers?  The real problem is that rangers will be so reduced in what they can solo and HOW they can solo that they will be boring.  As it is, when I have to melee, it's hit three or four buttons and wait two mins and hope I don't die before I have more abilities pop back up.  If I'm in an area with no adds (rarely) I can stun, hide and run behind and backstab but that manuveur can only be used once per fight. And frankly,  I feel a lot like an assasin and very little like a ranger when doing that.  If they aren't going to let us use our bows as frequently (which is my first choice) then by all the gods they should give us more melee arts.  Maybe there are some areas that get exploited, but better to fix those particular mobs than ruin the fun of a bow class.  And yes, I get an absolute kick out of kiting backwards.  Sometimes I giggle the whole time.  It's not without risks,  adds, falling off cliffs, getting stuck in terrain and pinned in by the mobs.  And my froggie ranger just looks so funny hopping backwards, makes me smile.  <div></div>

[Star]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kasandria wrote:<BR>I solo a lot especially on my ranger.  I never even tried a red mob (well since like level ten).  Why not just speed up mobs that are epic so we can't kite them and leave us the ability to BE rangers?  The real problem is that rangers will be so reduced in what they can solo and HOW they can solo that they will be boring.  As it is, when I have to melee, it's hit three or four buttons and wait two mins and hope I don't die before I have more abilities pop back up.  If I'm in an area with no adds (rarely) I can stun, hide and run behind and backstab but that manuveur can only be used once per fight. And frankly,  I feel a lot like an assasin and very little like a ranger when doing that.<BR><BR> If they aren't going to let us use our bows as frequently (which is my first choice) then by all the gods they should give us more melee arts.  Maybe there are some areas that get exploited, but better to fix those particular mobs than ruin the fun of a bow class.  And yes, I get an absolute kick out of kiting backwards.  Sometimes I giggle the whole time.  It's not without risks,  adds, falling off cliffs, getting stuck in terrain and pinned in by the mobs.  And my froggie ranger just looks so funny hopping backwards, makes me smile.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is why I wish they would take the min range off our ranged CAs or at least some of them. This is one of the reasons I *don't* solo with my ranger. It's boring. I hit the same *few* CAs over and over because I can't use any ranged CAs (w/o out kiting of course, which I hate). From another perspective (that of a table top gamer), I've always thought that classes the specialize in ranged combat should get a close combat shot like ability, i.e. no penalty for shoting for an up close and personal range. In EQ I think this logically extends to using ranged CAs in close combat. I hope the devs are reading this and I hope they take this idea to heart in the combat changes.<BR></DIV>

[Jay]

<DIV>Are you guys keeping up with the feedback coming from rangers on Test? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kiting as we knew it is gone; get used to it or just enjoy it while it lasts. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Personally I'm not sad to see it go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Point-blank <EM>ranged</EM> combat (see the oxymoron?) is not being implemented that I've heard. May just need to accept that. Personally I'm fine with that too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But there are a lot of cool things that <EM>are</EM> being implemented that should keep soloing viable and fun. Perhaps more so than it is now. Our snares actually DO snare, our autoattacks do more damage, we have an offensive stance that increases ranged damage, a defensive stance that helps avoid damage, a much cooler stun that lasts twice as long (IIRC), and we can now summon higher-quality arrows. Soloing is not disappearing; if anything, it may be more fun and more effective. I'm sure some will disagree, but right now I find soloing (even with kiting) to be boring, repetitive, and very inefficient. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I hope some of you that bemoan the death of kiting will read up on what we're being given in return. It seems like a surprising amount of rangers just heard "kiting is gone" and reacted, without seeing the other GOOD changes that are taking place. </DIV>

[kaeleth]

I am not sad to see kiting go.  However, I am also wary about not being able to move while using our bow abilities.  The problem is this, we do not have a lot of frontal melee attacks.  So while we are getting more damage, we may be reduced to group only.  I hope this is not the case.

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kaeleth wrote:<BR>I am not sad to see kiting go.  However, I am also wary about not being able to move while using our bow abilities.  The problem is this, we do not have a lot of frontal melee attacks.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What I'm envisioning (I don't play on Test but this is how I'm thinking these changes will work):</P> <P>1. Stun the enemy and either circle behind and lay waste with flank / stealth / back melee attacks, and/or back off and fire ranged CAs while stunned.</P> <P>2. Snares now work and IIRC, they actually stack - so snare your target with an initial volley and use your enhanced speed to keep distance while piling on bursts of ranged CAs. May even be able to rotate in more snaring attacks like Crippling / Debilitating Shot and Entrap to keep the enemy slowed while we continue to dance out of melee range and unleash more bow damage. </P> <P>3. We'll get better summoned arrows, our ranged autoattack will do more damage on top of that, and I believe autofire can still be used while moving. So I think these enhancements combined with the snares and stuns will enable us to field far more damage than just frontal melee attacks. </P> <P>Just my thoughts on how this may all combine to make soloing viable and even more fun than our previous reliance on kiting. Again, I haven't seen this in action, but these ideas were gleaned from rangers like Rhanin who are actively testing and reporting on the Test changes.</P>

[Gailstryd]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kaeleth wrote:<BR>I am not sad to see kiting go.  However, I am also wary about not being able to move while using our bow abilities.  The problem is this, we do not have a lot of frontal melee attacks. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>What I'm envisioning (I don't play on Test but this is how I'm thinking these changes will work):</P> <P>1. Stun the enemy and either circle behind and lay waste with flank / stealth / back melee attacks, and/or back off and fire ranged CAs while stunned.</P> <P>2. Snares now work and IIRC, they actually stack - so snare your target with an initial volley and use your enhanced speed to keep distance while piling on bursts of ranged CAs. May even be able to rotate in more snaring attacks like Crippling / Debilitating Shot and Entrap to keep the enemy slowed while we continue to dance out of melee range and unleash more bow damage.</P> <P>3. We'll get better summoned arrows, our ranged autoattack will do more damage on top of that, and I believe autofire can still be used while moving. So I think these enhancements combined with the snares and stuns will enable us to field far more damage than just frontal melee attacks. </P> <P>Just my thoughts on how this may all combine to make soloing viable and even more fun than our previous reliance on kiting. Again, I haven't seen this in action, but these ideas were gleaned from rangers like Rhanin who are actively testing and reporting on the Test changes.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jay/Kaeros you did a good job putting that together because that is very much what it is like.  You hit the nail right on the head so to speak hehe.  You kind of have an option now in it especially when soloing because fights are pretty short for us.  Solo con mobs go down fast and I mean they go fast especially if you are opening the fight with some heavier bow shots.  Using just melee I can do the stun, jump, backstab...a couple of times if you are fast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />! trick and then finish off the mob before I have to stun it again and that is on pretty much any mob that is no up arrows or lower solo.  The ^ or higher con mobs (up to epic our stun still doesn't work on epics but what the hey) the stun works a lot like it did on live being that if you hit the mob it breaks where as against solo con mobs of less than ^ up con it lasts a full 6sec.  With the ^ solo's if I melee I often hit stun, turn off auto attack, hit Longshanks, and quickly mash Tanglehorn down (name might be a bit wrong) our fire based backstab that now casts so fast and can be cast from the front that it often goes off and nails the mob even though the stun was broken by Longshanks and in live you would be interrupted 99% of the time.  Usually I snare ^ solo's till they are crawling by opening with Culling and Legshot and just load up the archery on them and they are dead often before they think of touching me if I want or I move in to melee to finish.  I use a semi old method of kiting plus some new snare kiting (snare mob, run, shoot stationary, run, repeat) as well as deploying our new trap spell and have been able to take on some lvl 47 heroic blue con ^^^ mobs (fyi ^^^ is pretty much the equavilent of a ^^ on live so I am not killing raid mobs hehe for those who might not know) and win on a regular basis something I've seen conjurers, a few guardians, and a couple of the healer types also be quite successful with.  So Kaeros pretty much painted a good picture for you guys and that is only solo, cause we can lay down some heavy dps in groups when everything is really buggy hehe.  We have had some trouble lately (all melee have) cause of a bug making our str not affect our CA's/auto attack damage and we have been getting completely mitigated on raid mobs which means we often hit them for 0 damage with our auto attack, but that is all just bugs and the dev's are working the kinks out.</DIV>