Playing a Ranger in an enclosed enviroment

[Actfive]

<DIV>I have been having a lot of fun leveling my Preditor alt, and am just about to ding Ranger.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I would be interested to know is what is the best way to play a Ranger in dungeons, where the cramped room gives little scope for using your bow effectively. Move too far away, you have a good chance of agro from nearby mobs.  At this stage of my Charactor I only have two bow abilities so I am presently have a limited use for the bow.  Currently in dungeons like Stormhold I do not use my bow, except for pulling. After that I go straight into Preditor mode, hacking and slashing from behind. Open enviroment, different story. I pull, I back shot, I kite, ect ,ect. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can anyone give me some sort of direction on how to play a Ranger in the cramped enviroment of a dungeon? </DIV><p>Message Edited by Actfive on <span class=date_text>04-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:49 PM</span>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Actfive wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can anyone give me some sort of direction on how to play a Ranger in the cramped enviroment of a dungeon? </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2>Very, very carefully. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>You're already well aware of the issues; you just have to keep an eye out around you at all times, and only move as far as absolutely necessary to enable your bow attacks. This is actually good practice for quickly finding that 'sweet spot' where you can use both melee attacks and bow attacks without moving. It can be a real hassle, and unless my damage is absolutely crucial I will slack a bit and rely more on melee. But our natural environment is obviously the wilds, so it makes total sense. That said, I'm not just roleplaying when I gripe to my party about being stuck in a cramped, drippy cavern. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></DIV>

[Actfive]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2>Very, very carefully. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Aye, I am find that out very quickly :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Being an alt, he is going to be pretty well decked out at 20. Armour, jewelry, weapons await him.   Due to the moving of the goal posts by SOE in the Tomohawk quest, my Ranger will also have the luxury of using a Fir Long Bow. Stats are nice, but one thing I am not sure is the effectiveness of a long bow in Dungeons. Would the short bow you get for your Sub-class quest be more effective than a long bow in dungeons? Less damage, poorer stats, but maybe a shorter minimum range(?) or is there no difference between the minimum range of the short &  long bow?</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[tal]

theres no dif in min range, and if you imbue the bow a long bow has a better chance to proc

[hieronym]

<DIV>simple way of fighting in enclosed areas is always get the tank to turn the mob 180 degrees and tell him why he needs to do this so you dont get a chance of getting aggro. Turning the mob is so easy to do yet i see so many tanks that dont do it. Not only does it cut down the chance of you getting adds it also stops your group from getting hit from the mobs frontal damage hits - this cuts down on the healing and power useage of ur healer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wandering mob          you-> mob-> <-tank  <-group   = bad</DIV> <DIV>wandering mob         tank-> <-mob <-you <-group  = good</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as you can see from my bad diagram when you are behind the mob moving back  for bow shots can cause all sorts of problems but once the tank turns the mob everyone is a lot safer plus as the tank is looking at you and the group he can see if any adds that may spawn from where you have come from and then act to get the aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just explain to the tank and group about this and it will make the fight a whole lot better</DIV>

[Zholain]

<font size="2"><font face="Arial">I've found that the shorter re-use timer on the short bows really doesn't offer any advantages.  You'll find yourself rarely using the ranged auto-attack unless kiting or some unusual scenario, and the timer doesn't seem to exist when it comes to CA's.  When pulling or in the 'away from the mob' part of the ranger dance, you can fire off all available CA's with no delay in between.  I used a short bow for a while, but I doubt I ever will again.  However, that Ranger is YOURS, and by god you play her the way that YOU have fun. </font></font><div></div>

[leafnin]

I use a shortbow for the stats.  The few extra feet with a longbow really isn't worth it to compinsate for difference in stats a shortbow can provide.  Again as teh above person stated it's your choice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bayler_x]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> leafnin wrote:<BR>I use a shortbow for the stats.  The few extra feet with a longbow really isn't worth it to compinsate for difference in stats a shortbow can provide.  Again as teh above person stated it's your choice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Longbows proc more often on combat arts than shortbows.  That's a huge factor when you're using poison (which you should be) and combat arts like Triple Shot.</DIV>

[Ren]

 If you're worried about moving too far away from mobs in a dungeon... Don't... Seriously, you just need to get out of melee range.. which is where casters usually sit, to use your bow arts.. You're at much risk of aggroing additional mobs, as the casters sitting in the back.. and if you screw up, and get adds, go "buck" wild and use your high damage bow arts and watch the mobs drop mad fast... Example... You're killing a nightblood, and another nightblood aggros, step back, use sniping shot, triple shot, etc, and watch it drop, mad fast, you might take hate, but  we are not paper like in EQ1, I usually surprise my group members, especially clerics and tanks  when I get hate, because I don't go down like a chump, I love hearing... (Your a ranger? You haven't died yet)... but this extra dps, will let the tank take on the next mob without too much worry about sucking up heals, etc... Use your bow arts in dungeons if your confident enough in your tanks ability to keep hate... Pulling as a ranger isn't necessary in EQ2, I rarely pull, and when I do, its to get a mob the tank cant see to aggro, or he is going to aggro other mobs.. Late game we can shoot through walls, etc, with our bow art "Miracle shot" and I have only used it a few times, and thats to pull mobs out of walls, etc. Don't worry though, even without using your  bow arts, you should still parse on par with all other scout classes, but if you want to show that assassin talking smack, turn on your bow arts, and watch your dps leave his in the dust. I  actually don't use my bow arts in combat unless its a hard fight or looks like we may have some trouble, because of the fact that it is such a hate builder, doing 1200 damage with 2 abilities tends to take the mob off you, no matter how decent your tank was doing, but in the proper gear.. you should be able to take the damage till the tank regains hate, or its dead..  Being a ranger is all about moderation with your abilities and knowing how to finese around the mobs, knowing when to pull out when over your head.. remeber you are responsible for keeping the party alive if the fight is going to get ugly fast.. escape is your best friend, and nothing like getting "Whew, good call" from  your team mates <div></div>

[Davilan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> hieronymus wrote:<BR> <DIV>simple way of fighting in enclosed areas is always get the tank to turn the mob 180 degrees and tell him why he needs to do this so you dont get a chance of getting aggro. Turning the mob is so easy to do yet i see so many tanks that dont do it. Not only does it cut down the chance of you getting adds it also stops your group from getting hit from the mobs frontal damage hits - this cuts down on the healing and power useage of ur healer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>wandering mob          you-> mob-> <-tank  <-group   = bad</DIV> <DIV>wandering mob         tank-> <-mob <-you <-group  = good</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as you can see from my bad diagram when you are behind the mob moving back  for bow shots can cause all sorts of problems but once the tank turns the mob everyone is a lot safer plus as the tank is looking at you and the group he can see if any adds that may spawn from where you have come from and then act to get the aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just explain to the tank and group about this and it will make the fight a whole lot better</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is a sweet strategy. This makes mob control a lot easier and even if a mob comes from behind the tank its going to agg him anyways, very nice! But now, it causes another stretegy, how to tell the cocky, hard, bone headed tank to listen to your idea and try it out instead of trying to be a Silvester Stalone wannabe. And I dont know about the servers u guys are in, but man its hard to find a decent one in my server around my level that knows the taunt #1 damage #2 list of priorities. They scare me more than the mobs :smileytongue:<p>Message Edited by Davilan77 on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:40 PM</span>

[hieronym]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davilan77 wrote:<BR> <BR>This is a sweet strategy. This makes mob control a lot easier and even if a mob comes from behind the tank its going to agg him anyways, very nice! But now, it causes another stretegy, how to tell the cocky, hard, bone headed tank to listen to your idea and try it out instead of trying to be a Silvester Stalone wannabe. And I dont know about the servers u guys are in, but man its hard to find a decent one in my server around my level that knows the taunt #1 damage #2 list of priorities. They scare me more than the mobs :smileytongue: <P>Message Edited by Davilan77 on <SPAN class=date_text>04-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:40 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just be polite and say can u turn the mob etc, if they are any good and willing to listen to advice then chances are he will try it if not then just be careful when you move back. In most tight spaces its not a real problem as you only have to move back a little bit for the bow shots, but occasionally you will get an add from a newly spawned mob or a wanderer then you can say told ya so :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[lilmohi]

Actually what i find to be worse than dungeons if fighting giants in TS.  Because of their massive melee radius, you have to stand a very large distance away to use your bow arts, which greatly increases your probability of agroing wandering giants.  I don't fight them anymore but i got to the point i wouldn't even bother with the bow unless it was getting ugly.

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> leafnin wrote:<BR>I use a shortbow for the stats.  The few extra feet with a longbow really isn't worth it to compinsate for difference in stats a shortbow can provide.  Again as teh above person stated it's your choice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In a dungeon where you have limited room and may not be able to use the longbow's full range, you might be right.  However, by the time you start getting a full complement of bow specials (CAs or combat arts), you will find that at the longbow's max range, makes it more desireable.  By about level 24, you will have three bow specials that cannot be fired if you are moving, Backshot, Wounding Arrow, and Trick Shot.  If you start with Backshot, as soon as the shot fires, the mob will aggro and start to close on you.  This gives you a short window of opportunity to fire off shots that cannot be fired while moving.  (Note:  Open Shot can be fired on the move.)  With a short bow, you will find that the 27m max distance gives you enough time to get off only one shot (Wounding Arrow preferred because it debuffs) before the mob is too close to use the bow.  With a long bow at its max range of 37m, you can almost always get off all three stationary shots before the mob closes and you either have to go into melee or you start backing up to fire Open Shot.  In my book, the extra damage you can get with that third shot is more important than the minor differences in stats between the bows.</P> <P>Additionally, for tight situations, having a little extra range may mean that you can pick the mob out of the middle of a group of mobs with less chance of aggroing an unrelated mob that is a little closer than your target.</P> <P>It is kind of ironic that, using CAs, the long bow allows you to get off more shots than the short bow in that the long bow is slower.  If you do not use CAs, the opposite is true.  Even at max range, the longbow's shot delay means that you will only get off one normal ranged attack before the mob closes on you.  A short bow, with its shorter shot delay, allows you to get off two normal range attacks (most of the time) before the mob closes on you.  The total damage will average the same because the short bow is faster but does less damage.  However, CAs are not dependent on the bow speed.  They have their own timers, so you can actually fire all your CAs just as fast with a long bow as you can with as short bow.  That means that you actually will do more damage in being able to get off that one extra shot with the long bow, so the long bow is the better choice in my opinion.</P>

[draconetti]

<div></div>I'm in the short-bow camp with pristine imbued oak, and with triple shot and other CA's poisons proc nearly constantly although i haven't used a long-bow since predator days <span>:smileytongue:</span> i prefer the mods on short bows which is probably the main reason why i use them, and i have yet to be in a situation where the extra range woulda made any real difference just go with whichever you think will suit your style more .... and in dungeons stick with melee unless things start going wrong <div></div><p>Message Edited by draconetti on <span class=date_text>04-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:09 PM</span>

[Jay]

<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2></FONT> <HR> Sotaudi wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2>However, CAs are not dependent on the bow speed.  They have their own timers, so you can actually fire all your CAs just as fast with a long bow as you can with as short bow.  That means that you actually will do more damage in being able to get off that one extra shot with the long bow, so the long bow is the better choice in my opinion.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2>I'm firmly in the longbow camp for the reasons Sotaudi so clearly describes. There is no inherent advantage to using a shortbow <EM>unless you rely on your ranged auto-attack.</EM> I certainly don't, and I don't know of anyone who does. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The only time I even activate my ranged auto-attack is if I'm doing a long, long kite and need to wear the mob down through attrition rather than a big burst of ranged damage followed by melee mop-up. Those situations are few and far between, so IMO longbow wins every time. Obviously it's a matter of personal preference, but just keep in mind that you're putting yourself at a slight disadvantage by choosing a shortbow. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV>

[HappyLoveBa]

Or if you have the luxury of a great guild like myself with lots of crafters, just buy yourself 2 cedar for when you hit 40 and use a Pristine imbued Cedar Long bow and a Pristine Imbued Cedar Short Bow.  The short bow has stats so if you're cramped in a tight dungeon and cant for whatever reason use a bow just pop the short bow on for some extra stat buffs, outside i'd recommend using the Long Bow when soloing or in groups.  10 meters may not seem like much but when its the difference between an extra attack and melee you'll be glad you had that extra 10 meters.  If on the other hand you can't afford a rare or don't have any guild crafters who can do combines for cheap, just go for stormfire(quested item) for 28-38 until you can use the bloodlet bow(quest item), both are great bows and are a defenite perk for rangers.  Post 40 I'd say Cedar bows all the way, stats are way better than teak and procs are AMAZING, a teak bow is always an alternative until you can afford cedar hehe.  Anyways, hope I helped which most likely i didnt. -Nefego <div></div>

[lilmohi]

Imbued long bows proc significantly more often than short bows when using CA's.  In addition if you use bow auto attack, the short bow uses more arrows, which is a huge deal for me.  And that extra range is invaluable when pulling, especially if the creature is flying since you have to be practically under the griffins feet to pull with a short bow.