LU#7 - Thoughts on the changes that will affect us?

[Fennir]

<div></div><p><strong>Scout changes:</strong></p><p>- Evade will now provide additional hate decrease as you upgrade the quality of the spell.</p><p>- Sneak Attack no longer has a maintained effect.</p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Predator changes:</strong></p><p>- Survival Instinct now provides a defense enhancement.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ranger changes:</strong></p><p>- Natural Instinct now lasts for 15 minutes instead of 5.</p><p>- Adroit/Feral Instinct/Dance of Leaves now allow their agility buffs to stack.</p><p>- Take Aim/Steady Aim now last 4 minutes with a 5 minutes reuse.</p><p>- Pouncing Attack will now cast the stealth effect .1 seconds after the spell takes effect.</p><p></p><p>-----------------------</p><p>I didn't repost the Combat System changes, as those affect everyone, and I don't think anyone really knows how that will play out until we get a chance to see it in action.</p><p></p><p>As far as I'm concerned, these changes are very good.  I'm not quite sure why they changed Steady Aim <b>again,</b> but considering what they fixed, I don't really care.</p><p>It will be nice to be able to stack our AGI buffs, chain stealth out of Pouncing Attack... etc.</p><div></div>

[Fennir]

Oops, forgot about this one: -NPCs will no longer be hailable while invisible. This I definitely do not like. <div></div>

[grantman24]

The change to imbued weapons procs will also affect us. No longer will those sweet inmbued bows proc in melee =(.  Rather unfortunate change as well. <div></div>

[Fennir]

Yeah I thought I'd included that in my post, but apparently not. I can't bring myself to complain about that, considering everyone pretty much knew it had to be broken in the first place.  Why would your bow proc when you're not using it? Besides, you can solve this problem easily by having both an imbued melee weapon AND an imbued bow AND a PGT... like I do. <div></div>

[Absinth]

A lot of these bother me. The take aim change does. The no-hail-while-invis does. (Sure it makes sense and all, and I can't really aruge with it, but I liked it.) The proc thing is sad, but I suppose was inevitable. I certainly can't say I thought it made sense when my bow proc'd in melee and vice versa. I'll be bummed that my axe won't have proc'd by the time a mob got to melee range tho (and hence no ward from my pgt absorbing those alpha strikes.) I'm not sure what to think of the combat changes. I can't tell what it will do to us just by reading. <div></div>

[Fennir]

What does Take Aim effectively do, anyways?  I mean, I know it raises your Bow skill, but what does your Bow skill affect that your Ranged skill doesn't? <div></div>

[Fishca]

<P>The proc thing is very sad, and ok it does make sense. However, the ward and power when the PGT procs from bow combat arts make a big difference in the ability to solo - either for Kiting or as a former poster mentioned to give a ward at the start of combat when the mob is still has power. </P> <P>Would be nice if the new combat system made it so that our power usage and ability to tank solo mobs were improved so that the PGT wasn't such a big thing - somehow not confident that will happen... and that we will end up with less ability to solo.</P>

[Sirlutt]

i want to see solid data/parses etc etc before i decide if its a good or bad update.  Alot is changing and its tough to see how it all fits together.. only way i know is to do some stuff and run parses of before and after logs. <div></div>

[Kthaara]

<P>In reality, the PGT shouldn't proc until you hit something with it.  Your bow shouldn't proc unless you stick an arrow in the MOB.  I agree that it will make soloing more difficult.</P> <P>A heratige Quest bow with similar stats to the PGT would be nice.  In fact, they could give you a choice between PGT or the superbow from that quest.  That way you couldn't have one of each and everyone else wouldn't start crying.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kwent</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kthaara on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:53 AM</span>

[Plexar_Vari]

<DIV>I agree with the changes to the procs, it was needed and hopefully people won't raise too much of a stink about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the invis / stealthed Hails, I strongly agree with this.  Imagine you sitting there in your chair and someone behind you keeps say hello, but they aren't there when you turn around.  Pretty annoying eh?  I am sure NPC's won't like that.  Only thing I can see this really effecting is turning in quests in the opposing city of choice.</DIV>

[Laeani]

<DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Plexar_Varius wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the invis / stealthed Hails, I strongly agree with this.  Imagine you sitting there in your chair and someone behind you keeps say hello, but they aren't there when you turn around.  Pretty annoying eh?  I am sure NPC's won't like that.  Only thing I can see this really effecting is turning in quests in the opposing city of choice.</DIV> <P><BR> <HR> <P></P> <P> </P> <P>You say that now, but wait till you can't find a group for your gebs update and you really need to go hail the efreeti in lavastorm.    </P> <P>Rangers have a hard enough time finding xp groups, let alone finding people to group with to work on heritage quests.   To many rangers out there giving us a bad name by not even trying to play their class right.</P> <P>Laeani Spytfyre</P> <P>47 Ranger</P> <P>Wrath</P> <P>Unrest Server</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV></DIV>

[Flust]

<P>The only change that I feel strongly about is the Take Aim/Steady Aim change.   I really don't see the need for the change.    As of now, Take Aim is worthless, so its nice that its getting its time increased, but even then its worthless with it raising the bow skills.  Unless, I'm missing something here, I haven't seen it actually increase our dps.   Steady Aim has been great to have, since it actually makes our Bow CAs hit more often for whats listed on the examine.   So, now I have to go 1 minute without Steady Aim and have it reduced to 4 min duration.  That just doesn't make sence to me.  Its almost as bad as it was before, 15 mins then waiting 5 mins to rebuff it.  </P> <P>As for the proc'ing changes, kinda figured those would be coming.. Oh well.. it was nice while it lasted.   Guess, now I'll be able to retire my PGT.   I just hope SOE takes a good look at our power useage then.  The PGT proc'ing off of bows was really one of the few things that was off setting our power usage.  Now, I really got to start working on my GEBs and RoI. </P>

[Donc]

Overall I think the changes are positive and reasonable. At worse Rangers will be about the same as before the changes.

[Bayler_x]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fluster wrote:<BR> <P>So, now I have to go 1 minute without Steady Aim and have it reduced to 4 min duration.  That just doesn't make sence to me.  Its almost as bad as it was before, 15 mins then waiting 5 mins to rebuff it.  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I don't understand the need for this change either.  They've just changed a nice helpful self-buff into a nuisance.</DIV>

[Zemeckis]

<DIV>If you actually examine your bow after using Take Aim you will realize that the max and min damage are much much higher.  So 4 mins of this with t5 arrows your bow dmg is lookin pretty sick. </DIV>

[Flust]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zemeckis85 wrote:<BR> <DIV>If you actually examine your bow after using Take Aim you will realize that the max and min damage are much much higher.  So 4 mins of this with t5 arrows your bow dmg is lookin pretty sick. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And that only effects your auto attack dmg, not CA bow dmg.   Which is helpful on some raid mobs, but thats about it.  Most raid mobs I have done, I have still been in melee combat more and only jumped to ranged to do CAs.</DIV>

[Davilan]

IM sorry, total newb question, what is CAs?

[RangerCalis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davilan77 wrote:<BR>IM sorry, total newb question, what is CAs? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>CA = Combat Abilities.</P> <P>Anyhow, the biggest change from LU#7 that affects <U>me</U> so for (that's right, it went live across every server, supposedly on accident, WTG Devs!) was the nerf in the Mystic's haze line.  No more duoing for me and the Mystic wife, that spell was the only thing that allowed me the ranger to tank for her.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Even in a group, we can't kill instanced nameds that we'd frequent anymore with our normal group because a warden and a mystic can no longer keep up with healing a monk on mobs such as these.</P> <P>Sorry, kinda off topic, but it's still got me pretty heated. =/</P>

[Kinesthesia]

I'm hoping this fixes Pouncing Attack.  I just got it and I'm not impressed with it as a replacement to Shrouded Strike as it causes a nice little lag in my favorite combo. I was already not impressed with the increase in damage. http://www.celestialmischief.org/images/adept.jpg <div></div>

[jeste]

where did you get a list of these updates? I cant seem to find any info on LU#7 <div></div>

[Kthaara]

<DIV>"I'm hoping this fixes Pouncing Attack.  I just got it and I'm not impressed with it as a replacement to Shrouded Strike as it causes a nice little lag in my favorite combo."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Me too.  The little lag is a bit annoying.   Probably time to make a macro, although hotbar space is at a premium.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kwent<BR><BR></DIV>

[tal]

<P>PGT proccing off my bow was all that was keeping me going on raids, when i get low on pwr i hit the manastone, then triple fire and as many other bow skills as i can, that gets me up to 25-75% pwr, and i keep on going, they need to fix our pwr usage and dps first, procs off of other weapons shouldn't be that way, but it was all that was keping us going. its like takeing away someones crutch before there leg heals...</P>

[Draghixia]

<div></div><p>Yet again another change that makes no sense.  To the best of my knowledge no other class gets self buffs that don’t match their reuse.  This isn't counting instas, racial traits or specialties (like Gnoll master strike).  Why this isn’t a 15 minute buff like Pathfinding and Foresters Insight I don't know.  If SoE would spend more time fixing broken skills than messing with a skill just to throw out of whack the timing on it......I love my Ranger and am enjoying my Druid soon to be Warden but good god if they'd work more on fixing things the community has listed and proven time after time as broken than going after Mickey Mouse things like Take Aim so they can say "See we put something in the Rangers section of the update" allot of people would be much happier.SoE if your not going to fix issues the community brings up time after time with FACTS unlike allot of other classes that whine about XYZ class is better than us, Rogues (sorry EQlive reference) historically have documented ad nausiem issues and how to replicate them, FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES they are the customer community equivalent of a grey quest for you, something you can fix easily and move onto something more important like spelling potato without an E!</p>

[Kthaara]

<P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Tradeskills ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P>- Imbued weapons can no longer cause other weapons that are equipped to proc.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>(The above taken from todays notes)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>My PGT will proc when I use the sureshot.  Neither are "Imbued".  I think that until someone verifies this we should stop complaining.  I have a feeling that after the update it will still work.  I will test it tonight and post the results.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kwent</P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2></FONT> <HR> Draghixia wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=2>SoE if your not going to fix issues the community brings up time after time with FACTS unlike allot of other classes that whine about XYZ class is better than us, Rogues (sorry EQlive reference) historically have documented ad nausiem issues and how to replicate them, FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES they are the customer community equivalent of a grey quest for you, something you can fix easily and move onto something more important like spelling potato without an E!</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT size=2>Bwahahahaha!!! Oh MAN, classic, good work. How about those "Luxery" Apartments over in Fish's Alehouse? Can't wait to get me one o' those, my EQ pad is seriously lacking in "luxery."</FONT></DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Blah can't believe they followed through with jacking up Steady Aim.  All the other minor changes they made make sense even if we loose those extra bonus proc's we've been getting.</P> <P>But why the hell did they feel it necessary to go screw Steady Aim one of the few usefull self buff skills we have.  To my knowledge no other class in game gets stuck with such a crazy scheme for self buffs.  If anything they should have just changed Take Aim to work the same as Steady Aim i.e. 15 minute buff that uses two concentration slots.  Force us to make choices on which buffs to use like bards and other classes have to.</P> <P>Not that any Ranger at L50 will ever use Take Aim or it's L50 replacement skill anyways.  I base that statement on the fact there is only one decent bow that has a mastery over 250 and it's a rare raid drop.  All other bow's max out at 250 for max damage which means buffing your Bow skill higher then that gives you zero benifits.</P> <P>At least they finally fixed Evade so that it scales.  Can finally go use that Copper piece I have and get an Adept 3 made for it.</P>

[Flust]

<DIV>Ya, the Steady Aim change is ridiculous.  I'm not happy about that at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note atleast PGT still proc's off of a bow.  </DIV>

[Kthaara]

<P>Yep.  PGT still procs like mad with the bow.  Shhhhhhh.......</P> <P> </P> <P>Kwent</P>

[Cedric Quindiniar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kthaara wrote:<BR> <P>Yep.  PGT still procs like mad with the bow.  Shhhhhhh.......</P> <P> </P> <P>Kwent</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have a feeling this is only happening on ranged attack CAs.  I noticed my PGT procing last night off abilities like triple shot and crippling arrow, but on a few occassions I was kiting with auto ranged attack on and didn't notice procs from this.  I didn't do any extensive testing, so this was just based off my own limited experience...

[Kthaara]

<P>Pretty sure I got some procs while kiting / non CA, but to tell you the truth, I can't remember in all the excitement.</P> <P>Then again, as soon as the CA is ready to go I fire it while kiting so that could have been it too.  Either way, still a benefit.</P> <P> </P> <P>K</P>

[Flust]

<DIV>I was kiting today, PGT still procs off of auto ranged attack.  The only weapons that aren't proc'ing off of bow attacks are the imbued melee weapons.</DIV>

[sjaste]

<P>The reason they changed imbued weapon well heres an example:</P> <P>My guardian alt has 5 imbued items 2 weps a bow chest and legs and when one of them proced the others all followed so instead of 1 58-98 damage proc you'd get 4 and a HoT.</P> <P>I'm happy with take aim sence it also increases damage done by any CA that uses the skill. This is just theary but I think it is right.</P> <DIV>Also noticed that pathfinding and crippling arrow can be cast while moving has crippling arrow always been this way?</DIV><p>Message Edited by sjastein on <span class=date_text>04-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 PM</span>

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>sjastein wrote:<div></div><p>I'm happy with take aim sence it also increases damage done by any CA that uses the skill. This is just theary but I think it is right.</p> <hr></blockquote>They changed Take Aim and Steady Aim to improve the Bow skill, which makes it useless.  The bow skill is *only* used to determine which bows you can equip.  In order to increase damage, it would need to improve the Ranged skill, like it used to be.</span><div></div>

[Flust]

<P>Shader is correct.  Increase bow dmg is worthless to us.  In fact it hurts us after the grey weapon change a few updates ago.  If I use Take Aim my cedar bow goes green, in 2 lvls it will go grey if I use that skill.   The only benifiet it does has is that it does raise the auto attack dmg listed on the bow to above what it will cap out at.  Problem is we really don't use auto attack ranged to do dmg.   Even when kiting my auto attack dmg is very small protion of the dmg done.</P> <P>The imbued change was due and it made sence.   The concern we all had was if the PGT was going to be included in the change.  Since, we have such horrid power issues.  The PGT is one of the few items, along with Manastones, GEBs, RoI and a couple other master drops, that can keep us fighting longer.   I tried fighting with out my PGT the other day in Sol A and it wasn't even funny.   Everyone else was at 50% or greater power and I was OOP and I had the largest power pool in the group.  I couldn't even stone and regen fast enough to keep up with the pulls.  I had to go back to useing my PGT just to keep up.  </P>

[Cedric Quindiniar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sjastein wrote:<BR> <P>Also noticed that pathfinding and crippling arrow can be cast while moving has crippling arrow always been this way?</P> <P>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Crippling arrow has always been usuable while moving (well, at least as long as I have had the CA).  Wounding arrow, which crippling would upgrade, isn't usuable while moving.</DIV>