Rangers don't Exist in EQ2

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>There are no Rangers in EQ2. The mechanics for viable ranged combat don't even exist in this game. Everyone who made a Ranger got nothing more then a really bad Rogue. If your concidering makeing a Ranger don't, all you'll end up with is a very gimped Rogue. May as well just make a Rogue to start with, at least you'll know what you really have. Ranged combat in EQ2 doesn't even exist. Combat speed rules, skill timers and the lack of roots and snares has taken all hope of viable ranged combat out of this game. </DIV>

[Tressle]

<DIV>I completely agree!  I really miss the roots and snares from EQ1.   Do we ever get a stun that buys us enough time to get behind a mob?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[jeorat]

<DIV>Of course you can get behind mobs while soloing, have you even read the (sticky) guide in this forum? It's not always easy though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cheers,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jeorat, Unrest</DIV> <DIV>Ranger lv 34</DIV>

[Sotaudi]

<DIV>This is not a flame, but I am not really sure what you expect here.  In a group situation, it is quite easy for a Ranger to stand off and fire nothing but Ranged attacks; although, you are better off getting in the sweet spot which will allow you to use your melee specials and ranged specials so you have something to do waiting for ranged specials to recharge.  For solo situations, consider that the max distance for your bow is 37m.  Most mobs, even casters, are going to try to move into melee range just about as soon as the battle begins.  And 37m is not a lot of room to cover.  It makes sense that they would easily be able to close the distance.  Add to that the fact that about half of our skills are melee based, and you should not really be expecting to solo by staying out of melee range plinking away with the bow.  Even so, if you want, and you have the room, you can kite them and do nothing but ranged attacks if you really want.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But you can still used your ranged attacks, even in a solo encounter, to great effect.  In a solo encounter with proper planning, you can get off at least four ranged specials (e.g., Backshot, Wounding Arrow, Trickshot, and Open Shot) before having to engage the MoB in melee combat, and that is assuming you do not continue to kite and just fire normal ranged shots waiting for Open Shot to recharge.  You start off with a Longbow at max range, shoot Backshot, then queue Wounding Arrow, and Trickshot.  If you have setup correctly, the third shot should fire just before the MoB gets to you.  After Trickshot fires, start backpeddling and queue Open Shot.  If you do everything correctly and every thing hits, you can have done more damage than a single stealthed melee attack as the opening, and you will not have been hit yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as someone else mentioned, with practice, you can stun a MoB and go into Stealth, get behind it and use a high damage melee special as well.  Even if you cannot get the timing down, Cheap Shot, turn off melee attack, Stalk, then Shadow Flame will work from any position.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah, you cannot stand from a far in a melee situation and duke it out in ranged combat, but then I do not think that that is a reasonable expectation in a solo situation.</DIV>

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>With Players like Sotaudi around Rangers will never be more then stealthy back stabbers. What? Stealthy backstabbing is what Rogues do. Oh my God He thinks Rangers are Rogues. So Does SOE it seems.</DIV>

[littleman17]

<DIV>Man you must suck at ranged combat then, I admit i miss our roots from eq1......... but in eq1 we were little more than druids with bows........ we werent rangers we were warriors that can make things go boom.............. at least now we have several bow techniques instead of a bunch of spells that dont fit our class at all.</DIV>

[Falamezar]

<DIV>First off most of what he said was about using your ranged ability.  There is only a couple of sentances about backstabs.  I go through way too many arrows to even say that there is no ranged combat in EQ2.  Ha I say!.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the class Ranger does not mean that they are supposed to only be arrow shooters.  That would be an archer.  Rangers get their name because they "range" around out in the wilderness.  Really, if you read fantasy novels most rangers may start with bows, but rarely finnish a battle that way.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are some examples of the more famous rangers: Drizzt(Forgotten Realms) can't remember how to spell his last name.  But I don't think I have ever read anything where he picks up a bow.  He does quite well with his two swords.  And (I know I'm gonna get flak for this) Aragorn(Tolkein LoR) who is the only main charcter mentioned in that trillogy as a ranger mostly used a Two-handed sword.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is this, to say that there are no rangers because you can't kill a mob with just arrows is saying that rangers are a one sided class.  We are probally one of the most versitile classes in the game.  We can fill alot of different roles in a group.  I can't tell you how many times i have saved a group member because i could pull out my bow and do 250-300 points of dammage to a mob to either drop it or atleast pull it off of a caster who can't take any kind of beating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is not to say that I don't have problems with the class.  Many people have posted about them (cost of arrows, cost of poisons, Agi nerf,ect.).  I think it is funny that no one that I have grouped with in my guild has ever complained that i wasn't doing my part.  Come to think of it, even the few times I have been in a pick-up group I have not gotten too many complaints.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, by the way, when I do solo and i take on mobs I open with 3 to 4 diff ranged attacks using my bow, and usually get the mob to about 1/2 life before it gets to me.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers are a hard class to learn and play, I'll give you that, but it can be done.  We are not "gimped Rouges", that really is ignorance talking.  Please learn how to play the class, then complain about an actuall issue.</DIV>

[Linday]

<DIV>All I have to say is why junk up the forums with this crap. If you don't like the class quit [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing and play another one. Also watch LoTR, Aragorn was a ranger. I didn't see him use a bow too much. Ranger is a scout that can travel long distances with ease and survive in the wilderness. Its actually defined as a wanderer or rover. So all that to say shut up and live life. I think SOE is finally starting to get it right. Yes they do have some tweaking to do but I think you are doing a little of your own tweaking if you know what I mean.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lind</DIV>

[Ademelo]

<DIV>Yeah....but if you want to use examples about other Rangers in movies and such, you might want to mention that they can definitely hit things at more than 37 meters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say if they want to improve the ranger class, make our archery skill that increases our range with bows. IE, every 10 points in the skill we gain a meter or something to that effect. That would distinguish the ranger. This is just an example of one possible improvement...there are plenty of other options.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ademelo on <span class=date_text>03-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:36 PM</span>

[GoNom]

<DIV>/Sarcasm on</DIV> <DIV>You know I was just going to post that!!  I was in Zek pulling Orcs near the gate, I use Stormfire bow, whcih I love, but anyway back to the point.  I get ready to pull a marauder, where out of nowhere he see's me, turns around and throws, what looks like a rock at me.  It lands near my feet, soi bent over to pick it up, and the fricken thing blows up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fortunately for me I took a screen shot of it before it went off so I'd have some evidence, upon closer examination it was......a Grenade!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Sarcasm off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously now, lets keep out timelines in synch, no ones ever going to start chucking grenades at you, so I'd feel safe in knowing that you can "set up camp" 37 meters away and not get blown to bits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However to an extent, I agree with you that we should get and increase to our Range on bows, but not to much more then 50 meters, anymore then that and I'll be standing there waiting to melee the mob, as it is I only need to backpedal a little bit to get the 3 ranged attacks I pull solo mobs with (Snipe, Wounding and Triple shot, sometimes I'll toss in Flaming Shot just for chits and giggles).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am hoping that with new expansions and new equipment we'll eventually see compound bows again, with increased range and damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember we're all still rookies, we only been Rangers now for 5 months!  We're still growing up.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Nadain]

<DIV>Hmm heres another example for a ranger for you. You think the military intent for the US RANGERS is a ranged fighter only? Want to pick a knife fight with one LOL? What do the US rangers do? Hmm there really good at recon and sneaking up on you. They are very good at killing there enemy. To them it dont matter. Ranged, in your face, or stealth! I know I dont want to pick a fight with one<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Kind of sounds like a EQ 2 ranger to me LOL</DIV>

[Ademelo]

<DIV>Yeah....it does...except they can do a lot more damage on both flank and face-to-face. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But not my point. I was simply stating that your average Joe can throw a stone 30 or so meters. I'm sure I could fire and arrow a lot further.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW....sarcasm was appreciated.....even funny.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ademelo on <span class=date_text>03-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:11 AM</span>

[Bayler_x]

<DIV>If you're looking for a realistic tactical combat sim, you're playing the wrong game.  In real life, levels don't exist.  In real life, being hit with a broadsword 30 times does more than just "20% damage".  In real life, if you're standing 30 feet outside your enemy's camp preparing an attack, they won't ignore you.  In real life, army rangers don't shout "Ding!" after a fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason we have such short range on archery is for game balance.  Longer range would make us more powerful - probably too powerful.  We can already solo quite effectively, if we have room to kite.  We can chase down runners (rare though they are) better than anyone.  When we can't pick our ideal positions in group combat, we have the option of attacking from anywhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah, it would be nice to be able to stand back and pick off mobs from huge distances.  But that's just not part of the game's design.  </DIV>

[Linday]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ademelo wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah....but if you want to use examples about other Rangers in movies and such, you might want to mention that they can definitely hit things at more than 37 meters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and if you want some extra info on this, (and any military guy can confirm) you generally want to set up camp more than 35 metres away from a barrier because that is generally the distance you can THROW a greanade. What on earth is SOE thinking in making our distance limitation 37 meters?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say if they want to improve the ranger class, make our archery skill that increases our range with bows. IE, every 10 points in the skill we gain a meter or something to that effect. That would distinguish the ranger.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Just as a random note because I take military seriously. No one will throw a grenade 35 meters. Ever. I will give you money if you can go into combat and throw a grenade accurately and effectivley 35 meters. Also on the setting camp 35 meters away it depends who you ask. I confirm this.  Anyways not really game related but if you are going to use military as an example for a game, which is strange anyways, please make sure you gather the right info. I mean come one even the M9 only has a range of 50 meters. Thats real life and a weapon we use in combat! Not some bow. Quit complaining.<p>Message Edited by Lindayen on <span class=date_text>03-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:51 AM</span>

[Plasticsin]

<DIV>Spare me...</DIV>

[Gameth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ademelo wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But not my point. I was simply stating that your average Joe can throw a stone 30 or so meters. I'm sure I could fire and arrow a lot further.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Ademelo on <SPAN class=date_text>03-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:11 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>And hit your target?  <BR> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Jay]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Erm...I fail to see how this all relates to Safe Fall. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Really - think about Safe Fall for a second. It has a clearly discernable effect. It has a logical implentation. It's never been nerfed. It has worked as stated since Day 1. It's easy to use, it performs as you'd expect it to, and it's easy to improve and keep it maxed for your level. How many other scout skills can boast the same record? </FONT><FONT size=2>All that, AND </FONT><FONT size=2>it gives all scouts a clear advantage in both DPS and utility <EM>over all other classes</EM>. We win! One to nothin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Safe Fall deserves some serious credit. </FONT><FONT size=2>It will redeem our archetype, for now and evermore. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>(This tongue-in-cheek "we need a bit more levity round here" post brought to you by the letter 4 and the number %.)</FONT></DIV>

[bli]

<DIV>Not to quibble, but safefall didn't start working as stated (or at all) until about 2 and a half months AFTER day 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>xoxo</DIV> <DIV>-blitz</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(otherwise, good post)</DIV>

[GoNom]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> blitz wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not to quibble, but safefall didn't start working as stated (or at all) until about 2 and a half months AFTER day 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>xoxo</DIV> <DIV>-blitz</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(otherwise, good post)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>(This tongue-in-cheek "we need a bit more levity round here" post brought to you by the letter 4 and the number %.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did you miss the above part to his post?  See people you all mock me for doing but once again this tragic situation could have been avoided by using the /sarcasm off/on command!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff66>YOUR SARCASM ABILITY HAS INCREASED!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff66>                      (SARCASM)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff66>                        2,000,000</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Bonedadd]

<DIV>Another one of the i don't like my class, it is not what it used to be nonsense.  If I remember correctly for the majority of eq1 rangers were a gimped class to begin with.  It was only after years of complaining that they got some major upgrades and finally ended up being a excellent Dps.  The distance issue is accurate as I think masters of the bow can and should be allowed more range.  Other than that this thread is a waste...l really enjoy my ranger and think that their multidimensionality other than an archer makes us one of the more challenging classes to play because we can do some major damage from both inside and outside.  Tanks sit basically sit in the forefront and punch keys while mages and priest finger wiggle from a distance.  We do a dance of death around our enemies when done correctly</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People who harken back to the "good ole days" want to return to a time where playing a ranger simply meant standing at a distance and plugging the mob with arrows....oooooh how challenging.  My guess is if you don't like your ranger, chances are you suck.</DIV>

[Serventof Wrath]

<DIV>... all joking aside safefall is a real issue here.  I have found the griffin towers an alright place to build it up but it doesn't seem to build that quickly any suggestions for better jumping spots that you can still normally walk away from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

<DIV><FONT size=2>Okay, I really didn't mean to hijack this thread into a discussion of Safe Fall..but err...yeah. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>LOL, I didn't know Safe Fall had actually been broken. I was just talkin out my bootie, I've only been playing EQ2 since late January. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>RE: Good places to practice...once you outgrow the griffon towers, look for any and all cliffs / large hills in Antonica. There's some big ledges in the NW, by Ardent Needle; the Tower of Vhalen is on a huge cliff; lots of ledges and valleys around the covered bridge on Antonica road, etc. Closer to home, the Mage Tower is always available to the extraordinarily brave and/or foolish... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>And remember: no pain, no gain! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>EDIT: To the coward that one-starred this post (which really didn't merit a rating one way or another in the first place): I challenge you to actually reply, identify yourself, and explain the reasoning behind your actions. [Removed for Content]? I'm actually helping another player with a legit question.</FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class=date_text>03-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:20 PM</span>