The end is near

[Araze]

<DIV>I remember back when I was having difficulties deciding what class to chose. The text from the EQ-manual inside the DVD pack helped me reach the final descission:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc66>Ranger</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc66>Rangers are <STRONG>natural outdoorsmen </STRONG>and <STRONG>trackers</STRONG>, <STRONG>masters of stealthy movement </STRONG>through undergrowth. They use perception and cunning to gain the advantage over their adversaries.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>I think they could have warned me a little, adding comments like</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Rangers will spend almost all their money on arrows in order to keep up the DPS most groups require you to have at higher levels."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Rangers have no utility skills or group buffs that will make them wanted in groups, other than those all other scout classes have as well (Pathfinding, Track and Escape). "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Come on.. what <STRONG>IS</STRONG> the ranger's specialty?</DIV> <DIV>SK can evac, Wiz can evac, 5 other classes can track/evac, we are medium DPS class. Dirges outrun us by far, Shamans sow > our pathfinding ... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im closing in on 50 now, and I am getting more and more bored with my class. It is still fun, but not as much as it used to - I see we are neglected, falling behind, fading into uselessness... The day my guild send me in to take HT or DD from epic raid mob, because thats all ranger is good for,  I will quit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The lack of respond from devs on this board after the increasing "whining" posts, scares me.</DIV> <DIV>All they did so far to our class (on the positive side), was fix spells that should work from day one, and up the timer on some buffs.  Come on, you can do better....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PLEASE DONT RUIN RANGER!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Arazeth on <span class=date_text>02-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:40 AM</span>

[Teler]

<DIV>Fun somehow how many "we lack DPS" posts there are now. A few weeks back so many pre 30 Rangers replied mine with "wierd, I have no problem, we are balanced fine" (stressing that they were pre 30 while I talked about a theme that starts at ~ 35 and really becomes burning at higher levels). I am so happy that I am not in a raid guild and that I am done leveling due to being a DPS class that outdamages only the healers mostly...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep it going, people, Class balance is only achieved if many representants of a class complain a lot about their problems sadly...</DIV>

[Araze]

<DIV>Raid last nite, these were present :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3 Conjurers</DIV> <DIV>4 Wizards/warlocks</DIV> <DIV>2 Guardians</DIV> <DIV>1 SK</DIV> <DIV>1 Assassin</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>2 Rangers</DIV> <DIV>1 Bard</DIV> <DIV>+ some healers</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Want to know whats funny ?</DIV> <DIV>DPS were parsed, and the result looked like this</DIV> <DIV>Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Conjurerer</DIV> <DIV>Necro</DIV> <DIV>Conjurer</DIV> <DIV>Wizard</DIV> <DIV>Warlock</DIV> <DIV>Sk</DIV> <DIV>Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Pet 1</DIV> <DIV>Ranger 1</DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Pet 2</DIV> <DIV>Bard </DIV> <DIV>Ranger 2</DIV> <DIV>Guardian</DIV> <DIV>Pet 3</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Levels were 44 to 50 so that of course would affect the results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[michael_r]

<DIV>I dont know how accurate a parser will be on a raid, with ranges to 'see' the damage done to mobs and stuff... BUT!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see that both rangers were outdamaged by <FONT color=#cc0000 size=5>PETS!!! </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is just messd up :smileysad:</DIV>

[Araze]

<DIV>Yeah thats why I am whining <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I cant prove this, nor do I have the log, I just wrote it down as the parserguy informed the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While we were beating on the mob, I saw my numbers as I was hitting him, and i mostly saw my hits lower than 10. My specials were doing like half the damage they do in normal group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I HOPE this damage output is due to :</DIV> <DIV>A) My weapons wasnt good enough on that mob</DIV> <DIV>B) His AC and mitigation was superb vs piercing and slashing</DIV> <DIV>C) The parser didnt work properly</DIV> <DIV>D) The pets were at Master1</DIV> <DIV>E) Pet owners were 2 levels above me, and that levels count ALOT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still gonna hold in there for a while, I love(d) ranger. But when fun is fading, so will I...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Azzazal]

<DIV>Good Post Ar, I must say i agree with your sentiments!</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Rangers will spend almost all their money on arrows in order to keep up the DPS most groups require you to have at higher levels."</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>Agreed having to burn money on tier5 arrows or having low dps isnt fun and nor is it cost effective, dont even get me started on posions.Would add that on examine some pre 40 spells at adept 1 lvl out strip some > 40s spells at app4. Surely this is some maths problem?... </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>PS if's a dev reads this perphaps actually fixing our "rip" line would go some way towards this, ripping one arrow is just silly when we get to fire off so many a fight. In one good days exp i can literally use hundreds of arrows, paying a few GP a time for me is no longer an option and frankly it should never ever have been.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>Ps Im NOT asking for endless q' like in eq1...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Rangers have no utility skills or group buffs that will make them wanted in groups, other than those all other scout classes have as well (Pathfinding, Track and Escape). "</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>Agreed again, zero utility! TRACK is the ONLY usefull group skill we have, why path when people > 42 will have j-boots or usually a shammy style in a group. It isnt like we are a dps option without the tools for the job ( yeah we really could get "RIP"ped in...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Come on.. what <STRONG>IS</STRONG> the ranger's specialty?</DIV> <DIV>SK can evac, Wiz can evac, 5 other classes can track/evac, we are medium DPS class. Dirges outrun us by far, Shamans sow > our pathfinding ... </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>I have the answer to this one, opening chests, no wait someone else can or hell why bother! open one now at 40-50 and shrug off the effect.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im closing in on 50 now, and I am getting more and more bored with my class. It is still fun, but not as much as it used to - I see we are neglected, falling behind, fading into uselessness... The day my guild send me in to take HT or DD from epic raid mob, because thats all ranger is good for,  I will quit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>Shudder Mate you remind me to much of eq1 and to be honest the more i play the more im growing fed up with the class. I played beta and allways gave feedback , saw a few things fixed saw loads taken away. Gone are the days when the tank dies and the ranger jumps in with his 1hs at the ready and his shield on, grabbing aggro with one high end attack and then doing his non AGI nerfed best to stay up till said tank was dusted down! Gone are the multiple ways to trigger and HO, well within the 10 seconds gimped timer, that made us VIABLE solo. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>The lack of respond from devs on this board after the increasing "whining" posts, scares me.</DIV> <DIV>All they did so far to our class (on the positive side), was fix spells that should work from day one, and up the timer on some buffs.  Come on, you can do better....</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>PLEASE DONT RUIN RANGER!</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cccc00>ERM, Maybe to late? </FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Azzazal]

<DIV>*Double post /bow</DIV><p>Message Edited by Azzazal on <span class=date_text>02-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Araze]

<DIV>Devs, to stop our whining, you can do the following, quickly and easy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Make our DPS better, slightly (and not <STRONG>miles</STRONG>) below wiz/warlock/necro/conjurer</LI> <LI>Un-nerf AGI, make us able to solo/tank just a little better</LI> <LI>Lower Arrow cost </LI></UL> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This will calm the storm for a while.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Randall-Rain]

Really 100% agree to that. Every group i've been, each time some1 started a conv about class balancing and all, i've been saying it. Rangers have been stripped naked, [Removed for Content] and left on the side of the road ! Let's try to get logical here.Track, usefull ability (unless u just pull whatever comes to hand), why would any other class have track ? think about it, u say ranger, u think wood, forest, animal tracking. that makes sense. But other classes, why ?DPS ? Sure, but pricey. How many times will u lose a group to an assassin/swash/brig because u deal less dps ? (because u don't want to pay the uber price for arrows). It's just the way they wanted it (SoE or whoever designed the classes this way). Why would a group take a ranger (that will eventually get lower dps if the group lasts in time) when they can get another melee dps that deals better dps whenever it's at second 1 or after 10 hours of grinding and that can do more for the group (group sneak etc...)HO ? every scouts class trigger the same....When i started this game, i knew i wanted to be a ranger without caring about those details (unlike some peeps that search which class is better for dps/tank/... before starting), but that doesn't mean i like playing a "half-class", that have no uniqueness... Take all that, add the fact that half the ranger's abilities are broken, it really makes u ask urself "how did they actually made the classes?"....

[Saihung23]

<DIV>Why or when will the Devs address the Ranger Issues?  I mean they just released an adventure pack....I purchased it, as well as the game which involves me spending how much a month?  And Ranger is my favorite class.....so, if they want me (and I assume most other Ranger owners) to not be bored with this game after the first month or two(thereby ending the nifty little monthly sum I pay them) they had at least "pretend" to care and answer one of these threads talking about the below average quality the ranger embodies.   I am not advocating a wholesale change in the ranger...but at least they could listen to what the "players" are saying and respond to the concerns.  Bah!  Likely never is the answer....because...look at what they did to "help" the Ranger in EQ1.   Almost nothing....because (rightly so) they knew players will play and short term players concerns did not matter in the long run.  I hope I see a change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Saihung Lvl 14 Kerra Predator</DIV> <DIV>Faydark Server</DIV>

[MistDragon]

<DIV>One thing I've heard & I've /feedbacked  in game is to make tier 4 & 5 versions of makeshift arrow.  if SOE were to do this it would solve one of the Rangers biggest problems ( paying for DPS)      I suggest every Ranger to /feedback this ,  as well as any suggestions you have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally try to do a differant  /feedback each weak   Ranging from the makeshift arrow one to   Ideas for new zones , armor , races, classes (beastlord any-one) etc  you get the idea.</DIV>

[Zendri]

<DIV>I think one of the things that bothers me the most about a ranger is the idea that they really should be a pretty decent class as solos.  However, I find that I am one of the weakest whelps running around the game.  I don't need to be the best, but I really should be able to hold my own on...on my own.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't enjoy my ranger that much...honestly, I feel like I do with my smuggler from SWG: it's a cool idea, with poorly implemented gameplay.</DIV>

[Redit]

<DIV>that pretty much sums up the reason i quit. i played a shaman in freeport and wow it was sooo  much more fun! i did lvl 1-15 in about 3 days because it was teh same joy i had when this game first came out. too bad that fun leaves when ur main class is rendered useless</DIV>

[Aulerd]

They boast over there amazing customer support /sigh, Support the rangers ffs devs please I have not played in ages due the the fact they buggered my ranger =(.

[Te]

<DIV>I agree with most about the posts above and that rangers probably the class that sony needs to do most work on of all classes atm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Probl only one thing that will solve it is that sony looks at their stats and look at playing time on each class and lvl players play so they realize what class is declining.</DIV>

[Randall-Rain]

Come on the devs are just overbooked give them a break ! They just fixed some housing issues, that's a huge important fix for dozens of peoples (world wide) and it was urgent to do something about it, WAY WAY more important than fixing a hole class that have been neglected since the begining, that is played by thousands of players who are NOT asking for rangers to be over-powered but just for what they deserve ! IT'S ALL ABOUT PRIORITIES PEOPLE !ps : do i actually have to put the usual SARCASM tag here or is it good like that ?

[wibroe]

<DIV>Level 38 ranger here experiencing same problems trying to hide away in groups hoping no one will notice my low dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Only thing im really good for is my evac 900 sec recast 20m radius apprentice III <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ..... and oh just upgraded it to adept 3 this morning giving me 900 sec recast and 20m radius.. nice upgrade huh! 22 gold for indigo ink. stupid beta game imo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes the arrow business :/ pay up for your dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My fellow guildie a level 38 warden solo red cons easy, while i have trouble fighting blue cons, even with my topknotch craftet gear i cant do better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least i know when i play my illusionist that rangers are last choise when i form a group. Especially in dungeons where they often have trouble getting range for their arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Randall-Rain]

<blockquote><hr>wibroe wrote:<DIV>At least i know when i play my illusionist that rangers are last choise when i form a group. Especially in dungeons where they often have trouble getting range for their arrows.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>I think it's not fair for rangers that you act like that. but on the other hand, if every ranger in the game would /bug and just paste the hole list, maybe they'll finaly admit "hey how come rangers have lower dps than a dead badger ?"

[Flipya4Re]

<DIV>/SIGH </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just recently dinged 36 as a ranger and I feel like a giant hunk of dead weight.  It's embarassing.  I have pretty top-notch gear for my level and I get put to shame consistently on DPS.  I haven't loaded up my parser in a couple of levels because frankly I just don't want to know any more, it's too painful.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, what's up with brigands getting a group sneak ability....I thought rangers were supposed to be <STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc66>masters of stealthy movement ?? /boggle</FONT></STRONG></DIV>

[Yer]

<DIV>First off, I am usually not one to complain.  I have a 32 Ranger and already I notice the difference.  I will be the first to admit that I have a way to go in the profession.  I just got Rip a few levels ago.  Are they kidding me?.....1 arrow a time....I use 5-8 arrows a fight.  This means that I have to pay about 1 gold for 100 arrows or still use the makeshift arrows.  I do not know how many people are around my level, but 1 gold for a stack of 100 arrows is kind of expensive to me, especailly when I can easily go through 500 arrows a day.  And if I choose not to buy the arrows, then my DPS falls and the problem gets worse.</DIV> <DIV>        But my main frustration came last night.  Just for a change, I took out my 21 Warlock.  Wow, what a difference.  I can actually solo with my warlock.  I was hitting Green ^^.  I am not entirely sure my ranger could hit the same guys.  He can solo tons better than my ranger ever could.  To me, this is just wrong, considering my Warlock does not even have any of the spells that were increased in damage.  (you get the first on at lvl 23).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I had alot of fun with my ranger until now.  It is just getting to expensive and frustrating to play him now.  Flame if you want, this is just my two copper on the subject.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Randall-Rain]

Yer, you'll see that solo'ing is something u tend to do rarely when u hit 40+. Like only when u need a few % to ding (and maybe not even then) or if u need a mob for quests. So personnaly, i don't really care about solo'ing, it's a multiplayer game anyway.But it is pretty clear now that the nerf they put on agility is hurting bad the ability to avoid the hits. They did the right thing by nerfing it, they just pushed it too far (this time at least).Flipya4Real, i agree on that. brig and swash gets the group invis ability (ok the reload time on that is huge) but it can be very usefull and i don't understand why they have that ability (and some others that fit the ranger description).

[Jay]

<P><FONT size=2>So you're saying I should:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>1.  Stop adventuring with my ranger right now (L27), because it's pointless from here on out,</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>2. Use my (former?) main only as a provisioner, which I've been doing for the past week anyway, and</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>3. Continue to level my monk as quickly as possible?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Done! Sad, I just did some more adventuring with Kaeros yesterday and gained about 50-60% towards 28. Found a Giant Idol, an Adept1 Leaping Cut upgrade, and another steel stiletto. I came out in first (most often) or second (occasionally) on the DPS ladder in each fight. That was encouraging, but everything you guys are saying tells me I'm wasting my time. Why work up to 35 just to find myself useless? Might as well park at 27-28 and use him strictly for provisioning. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It sucks that massive complaining seems to be the only way (or at least the players THINK it's the only way) to get Dev's attention. It has the nasty side-effect of driving prospective players (or even current ones) away from the class out of sheer discouragement. So the people that are playing rangers hit the wall, complain to no end in an effort to get changes made, which in turn drives more ppl out of the ranger ranks, so there's less ppl playing and less to complain...and eventually (barring an SOE miracle), the ranger class is deemed permanently f*cked and then there's NO reason to fix it. Downward spiral, anyone?</FONT></P>

[Araze]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=2>So you're saying I should:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>1.  Stop adventuring with my ranger right now (L27), because it's pointless from here on out,</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc33 size=2>Not pointless. Just frustrating to feel unwanted as you hit the higher levels.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>2. Use my (former?) main only as a provisioner, which I've been doing for the past week anyway, and</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>At least he can gather without agro in some places...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>3. Continue to level my monk as quickly as possible?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>With the light armor mitigation boost recently unleashed, that would be a good idea if you do what stated in 1.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Done! Sad, I just did some more adventuring with Kaeros yesterday and gained about 50-60% towards 28. Found a Giant Idol, an Adept1 Leaping Cut upgrade, and another steel stiletto. I came out in first (most often) or second (occasionally) on the DPS ladder in each fight. That was encouraging, but everything you guys are saying tells me I'm wasting my time. Why work up to 35 just to find myself useless? Might as well park at 27-28 and use him strictly for provisioning. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>I am sure after the massive whining and complaint we have posted here recently, devs should take action soon (relative..). Id say - play your ranger until the fun is gone, then park him and wait for the "fix". As long as youre having fun, you should continue playing. The fun is gone for me, so Im switching to twinks.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It sucks that massive complaining seems to be the only way (or at least the players THINK it's the only way) to get Dev's attention. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>It worked for wiz/warlock/summoner</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It has the nasty side-effect of driving prospective players (or even current ones) away from the class out of sheer discouragement. So the people that are playing rangers hit the wall, complain to no end in an effort to get changes made, which in turn drives more ppl out of the ranger ranks, so there's less ppl playing and less to complain...and eventually (barring an SOE miracle), the ranger class is deemed permanently f*cked and then there's NO reason to fix it. Downward spiral, anyone?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>Good point. Any idea how to work around it? </FONT></P> <P> <HR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>Bottom line is ...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>From a CS point of view, most customers rarely praise products they are pleased with, but they sure do complain when they are unpleased. Silence and/or praise of the class means they dont need to do anything, maybe even nerf the class. (!) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>After numerous construtive posts with suggestions how to fix, upgrade and utilize the class, it has now turned into a massive whine from many of us (including me, yes i am whining alot lately) - at least it will draw attention to the problem(s) and hopefully be worked on.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>Evil circle? <STRONG>Yes</STRONG>. Will this encourage future possible rangers? <STRONG>No</STRONG>. Is the whine needed? <STRONG>Probably</STRONG>. Will we get attention and our awaited fix? <STRONG>Hopefully</STRONG>. Will there ever be balance? <STRONG>No way. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>

[Araze]

<P>Sorry, double post.</P><p>Message Edited by Arazeth on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:48 AM</span>

[Ijiamee]

<DIV>We need Root.</DIV>

[faranth]

<DIV>RANGED HO PLEASE!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>REVOLUSION! (pumps fist in air)</DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2> <HR> Arazeth wrote:<BR><BR></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It sucks that massive complaining seems to be the only way (or at least the players THINK it's the only way) to get Dev's attention. </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>It worked for wiz/warlock/summoner</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It has the nasty side-effect of driving prospective players (or even current ones) away from the class out of sheer discouragement. So the people that are playing rangers hit the wall, complain to no end in an effort to get changes made, which in turn drives more ppl out of the ranger ranks, so there's less ppl playing and less to complain...and eventually (barring an SOE miracle), the ranger class is deemed permanently f*cked and then there's NO reason to fix it. Downward spiral, anyone?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffcc00 size=2>Good point. Any idea how to work around it? </FONT><FONT size=2> <HR> </FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT size=2>Not easily, with the forums constructed the way they are. But yes, sure - unfortunately it would require more than we're capable of as a player community. If people wanted to be mature and constructive (not saying you aren't, I mean the general populace in the whining threads), they could balance their remarks, stick to the issues or factors that are really <STRONG>wrong </STRONG>(as opposed to succumbing to the "everything sucks" mentality), and keep their discussions focused on reaching a consensus about what the top priorities are. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>But people don't want to do this - they are only human, so they want to complain and bemoan their lot and tear their hair out over how bad everything is. They want sympathy - misery loves company, after all, and it's a natural human reaction to look for solidarity in suffering. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>It's not just rangers, it happens in every forum - so much so that these posts are basically the norm in class forums - but people seem to think it gets results from SOE. (<FONT size=2>I'm not convinced that it does, but that's irrelevent). </FONT>If you were on SOE's community staff, how would you even begin to sort through this crap when it's so utterly commonplace as to become useless?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Here's some of the things it would be nice to be capable of as a player community:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Keeping complaints / feedback / bugs in a discreet thread and/or forum that is specifically for that purpose. (This is what I meant about the forums being constructed the way they are. It'd be nice to have one venue specifically with player-to-player communication, and another for feedback to SOE. And actually have those restrictions observed in a non-totalitarian environment.) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Wording complaints in a constructive manner that is more informative than whiney.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Leaving the soapbox alone and avoiding the need to feed your ego.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Balancing complaints with 'good' posts about things you actually enjoy about the game, your character, whatever.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Keeping your mouth shut when you don't have anything constructive or kind to say.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Helping people when they ask for it. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>- Emphasizing constructive behavior over pointless moping. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>And so on. Please don't read into any of these points as a fling at you, Arazeth, or at the rangers who are agitating for change. I'm thinking more about the general situation on these forums and my response to it. Everywhere you turn, you find griping, b!tchiness, petty cruelty, stupid behavior. And I'm not above any of this, I've done it before and probably will again in a weak moment. (Wasn't it Gandhi who said "Be the change you want to see in the world?") I just don't see it as a real effective means to get the attention you want...and it obviously has unintended side-effects. If you were considering playing a ranger, then came to this board and saw these posts, you'd likely reconsider your class choice rather than grinding your way to level 40 on the off-chance that the posters were wrong or that things have changed. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>RE: the situation specific to us rangers - I'm sure you have some very legit reasons to feel the way you do, as many high-level rangers seem to agree that things get really tough after 35-40. I can't speak to that as mine is only 27, but obviously I hope that SOE makes some improvements to our class beyond mere bug-fixes. Yeah, I'm discouraged - been reading posts like these for weeks on end, and I've let them drain the enthusiasm I had for my own ranger - but I'm not giving up just yet. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Good luck out there...</FONT></DIV>

[Araze]

<DIV>There are tons of constructive posts, with "evidence", data collected, suggestions, mature written and so on. No response. Instead, we got the AGI nerf. That was the first nail for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This leads to => frustration => give up the constructive part and turn to pure good old whining</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah we, as a community, lack the maturity and united force to speak as one voice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, SoE is greatly contributing to this, by not responding directly or through fixes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its like standing outside a locked door, knowing people are inside, refusing to open it for you while you knock carefully. After a while, you start hammering it down, before you end up either walking away or pull out the axe to really break it in frustration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im not trying to discourage anyone from being a ranger.  But i wouldnt recommend it before some issues have been adressed. Make your ranger, play him as long as you have fun. then do I as - make a twink and hope for a highlevel-ranger-fix</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>