Nice changes going to the test server today for Rangers and their place in the world.

[Pil]

<DIV>I know that people will complain about the Wiz/War enhancements and the love that Bruisers/Monks got, but I think these changes are going to make the world much more right then it has been.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are going to fit in very nicely between Mages (no defenses at all) and fighters.  And to top it off, with nice utility spells like sneak and evac.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And Amen for the Pally horse nerf  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Snowrav]

<DIV>Not to be negative, but how does beefing up everyone else and leaving the Agi nerf for us help at all???</DIV>

[Pil]

<DIV>It help in that it restores the Mage->Scout->Fighter->Priest damage progression.  Why do groups need a scout (unless they predict an evac need) when another fighter will do the job better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The light armor changes don't make us less than Monks, they just got closer, and it also makes the decision to wear a piece of light armor for the stats less painfull from an AC perspective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our buffs were improved (specifially steady aim, pending testing).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically this patch seems to go along way to restoring the original vision of the clases, and even though it does not specifically address the agility thing, by addressing the other things it renders the agility issue much less important.</DIV>

[michael_r]

<DIV>I read the notes.</DIV> <DIV>The only good thing happening to rangers is that our self buff gets uppd to 10 or 15 min.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guardians and paladins get 11% more tanking (fine with me), Monks (and who else uses light armor) gets 35% more tanking.</DIV> <DIV>Rangers/rogues and so on gets.. 0% ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it looks like a good patch, lots of stuff in it. But when looking with my 'ranger glasses' i dont see any improvments.</DIV>

[Teler]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pilar wrote:<BR> <DIV>It help in that it restores the Mage->Scout->Fighter->Priest damage progression.  Why do groups need a scout (unless they predict an evac need) when another fighter will do the job better?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The light armor changes don't make us less than Monks, they just got closer, and it also makes the decision to wear a piece of light armor for the stats less painfull from an AC perspective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our buffs were improved (specifially steady aim, pending testing).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Basically this patch seems to go along way to restoring the original vision of the clases, and even though it does not specifically address the agility thing, by addressing the other things it renders the agility issue much less important.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The damage progression should be though Mage/Scout - Fighter - Priest honestly since although Sorcerers tank worse than we do (even worse) they offer more utility. Also besides Scouts, Mages, Wardens and Shadowknights can evac too, a little later, but who cares anyways at 50 about the level a class got a skill?</DIV>

[Neec]

<DIV>Before you get too excited if they  give mages the DPS they should be doing, what use are scouts especially rangers / assas that have no grp util..  Yeah we can sneak... Mages invis better and can invis others... Wiz evac is identical to scout evac... Thier DPS will be top our tanking ability will be even less than mages maybe on par..  At moment with TOP kit at level 50 i cant solo con blue SOLO mobs and with the new nerf to defence it is clear that if you want to play solo the scout in NOT the class to play, I dont actually think that Scouts should tank as well as tanks but we should  be able to tank lower level solo mobs with ease..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We will basically be GRP DPS for Lockpicking skill trade of will be some dps in order to get chests unlocked..</DIV>

[Jarlax]

I just got owned by a blue mob that i didnt think would be possible thanks SOE we really enjoy the game we are paying for. We are not suppose to be tanks but we should atleast be able to solo mobs than con under our level. They are going to do what they did SWG they start nerfing certain professions in our case subclasses and classes until its a mess and people are going to drop their accounts like flies. I know I am thinking about it.

[ThePlotThicke]

<DIV>Yah... I'm worried that Predators don't provide enough group utility to be saught after by groups when there are so many atlernatives available.  I mean... all other scout classes have all of our utility and more, and still do comperable DPS.  Mages will out DPS us by a ton, especially if what's being reported from test is true.  And i know the STR damage reduction won't affect us as much as fighters, but our STR buffed DPS is actually being reduced with this patch...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If Predators aren't doing top teir DPS... why have them in a group over any other scouts/mages?  Filler?</DIV>

[Kyriel]

<DIV>thats all right, i mean wiz have evac and sneak, now they dished out top notch dps, what is our group utility , track???</DIV>

[Neec]

<DIV>all scouts get track and disarm and usesful grp buffs </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we get to just look good.. no scratch that   med armor looks crap.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mind with the up in damage mitigation from light armor maybe we will be better of in light armor... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the str nerf afects us too lowers our dps a bit tanks more.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ahh thats right we get the title Ranger.. .</DIV>

[littleman17]

<DIV>no no no, [FaarNerfed!] is their problem with us, I mean did we ever do anything to make SOE....... and if they take away my medium armor, I will be [Removed for Content] off, medium is what makes us special......</DIV>

[Bromious]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jarlaxle wrote:<BR>I just got owned by a blue mob that i didnt think would be possible thanks SOE we really enjoy the game we are paying for. We are not suppose to be tanks but we should atleast be able to solo mobs than con under our level. They are going to do what they did SWG they start nerfing certain professions in our case subclasses and classes until its a mess and people are going to drop their accounts like flies. I know I am thinking about it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just curious about what kind of blue mobs you're getting pounded by so I can avoid them. I zoned into RV earlier for the first time ever and ran around a bit. Saw a yellow con solo wolf, lvl 36 I believe. Decided to give it a shot. The encounter was cake to be honest, finished the fight at about 70% health. Mind you I was ableto get off  Hagers Deft Lunge (or whatever the hell it's called) which was a surprise since I had poison up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find the more I refine my tactics the easier time I have soloing. The agi fix forced me to become a better, smarter player (not inferring you're not of course). I'm sill happy with my ranger. Will be curious to see what happens with the next patch. Regardless I'll adapt and overcome.</DIV>

[Sirlutt]

<blockquote><hr>Bromious wrote:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Jarlaxle wrote:<BR>The agi fix forced me to become a better, smarter player (not inferring you're not of course). I'm sill happy with my ranger. Will be curious to see what happens with the next patch. Regardless I'll adapt and overcome.</DIV><hr></blockquote>exactly !!!great post!so many poeple just post whining.. if you really like playing a ranger.. and arent just in it because you think they are FOTM (Combat Medic anyone?) .. you will find new and interesting ways to to use your character.I am sure with the agi "nerf" as people call it.. a number of the people who just want to be uber rerolled what ever they think the next uber class is.. at least they should have.. instead of whining about it.

[Neec]

<DIV>It has nothing t odo with being UBER its to do with playability..  the nerf doesnt really afect u until you are lev 45 + then its a real pain and you notice it,  Dont slate people for complaining about problems they are experiencing im level 50 ranger and i know how to play my character i also have top kit..   at 50 we have 3000 - 3500 hp depending on stam items..  when solo con blue mobs hit for 3-800 points of damage and have 7-10 k HP it doesnt take long to die..    So that TIES me to grp play which i dont mind  as i do serious damage  normally between 200 and 250 DPS.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The issue is more for the overpowered SOLO mobs or UNDERPOWERED agil on rangers itsnice when you log dont have much time  to jsut kill a few solo mobs and not be forced to kill green mobs (providing you can find them)  The bigest complaint is SOLOABILITY.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also a lot of quests you outlevel becasue you cant get a group to go out of thier way to kill / camp grp mobs  often the time you complete these quests is when the mobs are 10 levels lower, now at 50 with top kit i have trouble soloing some level 40 ^^ grp mobs 10 levels lower than me.. And getting a grp to camp and kill GREY mobs is harder.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game is in development adn the test server currently have big boost to Light armor mitigation and heavy, this boosts tanks   monk types and furys etc.. Also tank damage is nerfed with the str nerfed  i dont think its a huge hit  on their dps but its enuf..  The introduction of solo dungeons is cool too but not if you cant solo con blue mobs..  There are a lot of good changes coming and it will be fun to see.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love my ranger and will stick with him, i always play ranger type characters its always my choice of profession.. </DIV>

[KetMali]

<DIV>We have no group buffs, our dps will suck, our buffs honestly suck. Feral instinct (maybe not right name) is supposed to increase dmg and agility, I have an adept 1 and it doesnt increase agi one point and I notice no dmg increase. I have almost every skill adept 3 and I can outdmg most classes but all my skills are adept 3, if they had most adept 3's they would [Removed for Content] my dps. I used to be able to tank very well using an adept 1 adroit with group buffs too, now with better group buffs and an adept 3 dance of leaves I get owned. Not worried about tanking but they have broken every aspect of ranger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dirge is teh way to go for a scout class, they have nice agi/str debuff that makes tanking much easier, mana regen, agi buff, super speed buff, a nice proc buff, and pretty decent dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sony has always had a problem with keeping classes in any game inline, to bring one class inline with another they nerf em to hell, then super buff another class, then nerf them later and superbuff another class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my opinion, but would love to hear what others think.</DIV>

[Snowrav]

:smileyvery-happy: <DIV>Hell just give me a cloak like every other Ranja in fantasy history, and I'll be happy!!!!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Snowraven on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:13 AM</span>

[Ren]

The patch notes look great, and I am excited, I constantly have Foresters Insight up, and It will be nice not to need to refresh constantly, plus steady aim, etc, is all adept with me, so even better. This patch needs to go live soon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> *hopes and prays* The light armor will be pretty good as well, I see some sickly sweet armor with great stats, that are light armor at later lvls, however would be nice if they gave medium armor some reduction as well though, I currently dislike being paper again, when it comes to soloing. Rangers need some more meat on thier bones again.

[KetMali]

<DIV>Light armor stats suck compared to the medium armor at higher lvls. I have a full set of pristine ebon and its much better then the t5 rare crafted light armor. You do realize with the next patch we will have a huge dps drop....so your excited you dont have to refresh the agi buff every 3 min and your happy even though we will get a huge drop in dps....</DIV>

[Cex]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pilar wrote:<BR> <DIV>It help in that it restores the Mage->Scout->Fighter->Priest damage progression.  Why do groups need a scout (unless they predict an evac need) when another fighter will do the job better? <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If your getting out dps'd by a tank class you need to upgrade your skills and gear. If your basing DPS off of the MT in a group you need to understand any damage sheilds are being credited to the tank rather than the priest who cast it. This was done to prevent DS from creating hate on the priest. FIght with another tank in the group and compare dps between the 2 tanks and youll see the diference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Braveswor]

<DIV>I'm lvl25 on Faydark and would love to increase my skills - some of which are  only at app 2. However - few are being made for sale so it looks like I'll have to start making my own if I still want to hit hard and often.:smileyindifferent:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also...AQ1-5 armour looks like something the ladies of the WI knitting circle might have produced on a wet weekend...But still looks aren't everything I suppose :smileytongue:</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Bravesword2 on <SPAN class=date_text>02-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:09 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Bravesword2 on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span>

[CyberE]

<DIV>When you are comparing DPS, please be aware of your level. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From lvl 20-30, the ranger is a viable class with good dps because of poisons and good damage from skills. </DIV> <DIV>From lvl 31-40, the ranger's ability decreases with the increase in poison resistance of mobs. In addition, the ranger dps does not scale as fast as other classes such as the guardian. In fact, all the scouts begin to lose their edge in dps during this transition. (this is also because of the secret nerf they did to poisons)</DIV> <DIV>From lvl 41-50, the ranger sucks because their poisons do not proc unless you buy very expensive player crafted poison (which I do, at 6g each), their summoned arrows do not do damage (1+1 damage from sharp shot), their tear arrows are only adequate, and it costs too much to buy T5 arrows (always keep 2 stacks on you for bosses, who are usually very conveniently, immune to arrows). In addition, because the key damage spell "longshank" is broken, ranger damage is further decreased. This is the biggest problem with the lvl 50 ranger at the moment because "longshank", which is supposed to do equal damage as "tanglethorn", is THE most used (10 secs refresh) ranger spell, whether being followed up by "tanglethorn" or "crippling blade", and thus deals THE most damage in any fight (except solo). With T5 player crafted arrows however, a ranger can match an assasin, at a very high price of course, but will never match a bruiser or a monk (tanking or not). We will win some and lose some against a berserker, but overall dps will be lower due to us being a very power inefficient class (you can wear the Robe of Invoker, drink T5 and still run out of power if you do ring runs in Permafrost. Only way to counter this is to equip PGT on your off-hand, which although makes your tanglethorn do less damage, but you will not go out of power). All-in-all, the ranger DPS with T4 arrows is identical to the brigand DPS. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The caster damage buff is definitely necessary to make them do more damage than tanks. Tanks ATM are overpowered. But buffing the casters and leaving the scouts in the drain is not the way to do things. So we should get buffed in the next few patches. Because after the casters get buffed, dps will be Casters > Tanks > Scouts. That would leave us useless, considering that all casters have group utilities and buffs while non-bard scouts have none of those. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my opinion, to achieve caster > scout > tank, they should buff caster damage, then buff scout damage, then increase the health of all mobs by a certain %. This would achieve the intended effects but we will feel less nerfed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I seriously disagree with caster > scout > tank dps chain. The bard should fit in that chain, but definitely not the predator nor the rogue because we have almost zero utility (let's say enchanters are not casters lol). IMO, they should keep it so casters do more damage AE, while scouts do more damage versus 1 mob (like it is now). At level 50 right now, I can beat a wizard dps by 10 to 30 in Permafrost ring runs. This should be right because I would lose out by 50+dps in group mobs of 3+ (scales with number of mobs). SoE misread the dps system because tanks did too much damage. SoE really needs program testers... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*when discussing dps, I'm talking about very good players who know how to play their class well (i.e. spam buttons and macros) and don't slack </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by CyberEva on <span class=date_text>02-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:03 AM</span>

[Ren]

Yeah right now at 36 I have no problem matching or bettering assassin damage but yeah, it looks like in our 40s we get the long hard shaft. :/ Oh well, tough it out, and wait for our class to get its dues.

[Karnacc]

<DIV>Long time EQ1 players should know, SoE has a way of giving every class its time to shine. They seem to deal with their balancing and nerfing almost in a rotating fashion. All classes are too different to be even, so somebody has to be tops. Wait it out..Rangers will get the upgrades you want.</DIV> <DIV>Then, they will make another class better. This will repeat as the game evolve, and more content is added. Balancing is constant and nerfing/beefing is part of the on going cycle. There is no use in getting down. Just learn to be creative and have fun with your character. Find ways to conquer those nerf challenges they throw at us. Like another poster said, It will make you a better player. </DIV> <DIV>Heck, anybody could get up to Donkey Kong if you gave Mario Jet boots. The fun and the challenge, and not to mention the SKILL came from learning how and when to jump those barrels. Rangers are by far the most entertaining class to play because of the variety of ways we can do damage. If you dont see that , then you are not playing your character right.</DIV> <DIV>If you dont want a challenging character, play a wiz or something that you considered "overpowered"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>