So the big patch is there

[Teler]

<P><FONT size=2>"So we got the big patch finally" I thought when reading the patchmessage. I was actually happy because it sounded very promising. Then I logged on and bing by bing I had to chose one Trait and Training after the other. "Fun" I thought, those things really look usefull, look fancy and fun. Two backstabs, an archery skill and the arrow rip I chose for my lvl 40 ranger, got a group fast as more people logged on and invited to go to hunt in Rivervale. We headed to Nightbloods and I planned to test the new skills there. Here comes the result: </FONT></P><FONT size=2> <UL> <LI>The one backstab skill (don't remember the name, it conned grey) did about 68 damage, not much worth when I don't even have time enough to use all others plus HO before they recycle. </LI> <LI>The other backstab skill (the blue one) did about as much damage as the level 38 skill Crippling Blade, then though I realized that it greyed out CB - useless since CB has a slow movement component </LI> <LI>The archery skill also greyed out an exisiting level skill, also useless </LI> <LI>This left me with the Arrow Rip skill that actually stacks with Rip, since though Archery makes me give up several swings of melee or needs to be done at max melee range - a spot that is so slim that it mostly is not existing on non-horizontal terrain - this skill has very limited use as well. If Archery would be worth it (e.g. low delay bows and a few more skills for bows), this skill could actually rock - could I said. </LI></UL> <P>So this is what I got from this patch. Looking at the competition, the Fighter Subclasses Monk/Bruiser with Taunt, I see that they got actual worthwhile damage dealing upgrades, got their broken skills fixed and got a tanking upgrade. Nice for them, it widened the gap though since they already outdamaged us before, and - as it feels - outtanked us before as well, Light Armor wearing classes outtanks Medium Armor wearing classes... nicely thought of the Designers. </P> <P> </P> <P>That tanks (and also mages) outdamage me against grouped mobs I could accept, I thought I would certainly outdamage them on single boss mobs, on raids or where ever, I mean I have orange con weapons as well, a pair of piercers that are from the better ones out there and a nice, orange, playermade bow. </P> <P> </P> <P>Besides that my bracer became a leg item which I cannot equip anymore (Feysteel Wristguards or the like), my graphics are buggy now since mostly I legs, hands, arms, and sometimes also the body but the head from other characters is displayed anymore. The patchmessage stated that UI settings would be safed more properly now, also didn't happen. Instead all my bags open at one place instead of next to or beneath each other which makes me glad that there are trusty testers on the testservers who assumingly get well payed for their hard testing work. </P> <P> </P> <P>So I can just say, the designers and also coders did learn a lot from the EQ1 patches and balancing effords, they learned that people would maybe feel warm and home if they broke classes as in EQ1... or something... :smileyindifferent: </P> <P> </P> <P>So I feedbacked it and will ask again here: When will archery finally become a viable option as sole combat for Rangers? I don't want to wait for the "Shadows of Luclin of EQ" here. Back than Rangers had to buy an expansion to get their main skill balanced, and yes, Rangers are archers, if I wanted to be a backpoker, I would have taken Assassin or a Rogue subclass.</FONT><BR></P>

[Fame]

<DIV>I got the really cool ability to move at regular speed while invisible (Hagar's Camo).  Since I like to explore new areas I thought this would fit my style of play perfectly.  The only draw back is that every mob I tested it on sees through it while they don't see through my regular invis (Huntsman's Trap).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fameen</DIV> <DIV>Lvl 36 Human Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Befallen Server</DIV>

[MillsFairchild]

I was able to stack Hagar's Camo and Hunt.

[Pil]

<DIV>They are on the same timer though.  They are not intended to stack.  I wonder if it would provide any benefit.  </DIV>

[Aulerd]

<DIV>Tel your are absolutly right, I pick ranger because i want to be able to do moderate melee damage and high bow damage then I see zerkers doing more damage with normal bow shots than me.......................</DIV> <DIV>Rangers feel more like the rogue from EQLive just with a few cool bow moves. We need some fast fire bows "range"r. Give us some nice bows soe PLEASE!!!.</DIV> <DIV>My sneak strikes out damage my bow back shot by about 70-100 >< I dont want to be a rogue/assasin!!!!</DIV>

[Stormreaver]

<DIV>Yet again another person ranting without reading what training is supposed to do. It upgrades an existing skill - its supposed to be on the same timer as the skill it replaces. Its an adept II version of that spell with an extrsa component, your supposed to remove that old spell from your hotbar and replace it with the new one.</DIV>

[Teksun]

Hmm, my backshot (bow) was hitting consitantly for 115 last night. I KNOW it wasn't hitting for that before the patch <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Teler]

<DIV>Ok, I might have read over the part that the Training skills replace existing ones, or misread it, whatever...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still the fact remains that, considering SOE's well known history of using new implementations for balance, the distribution or power of the single Training skills was not geared towards balance which though would be needed in my eyes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having a closer look at the classes and their benefits:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <UL> <LI>Sorcerer subclasses rule in damage dealing, especially in AE environments which are quite regular with the grouped mobs. They offset this with about no tankability.</LI> <LI>Brawler subclasses specialize in damage, but can also viably tank - and taunt (and they use taunt if needed)</LI> <LI>Rogue and Predator subclasses are there for damage...</LI> <LI>Tank subclasses are there to hold agro and take/mitigate/avoid damage</LI></UL> <P>This being said, how can it be that Monks/Bruisers a) Outdamage and b) also Outtank and Outtaunt (if wanted) Predator and Rogue Subclasses? Given I did not check with level apropriate poisons (blue+ con at level 40), but my gear and the level of my skills was always comparable to the said Brawlers SCs (read: Subclasses). </P> <P>Do we have to buy/make those level apropriate poisons and arrows to be able to compare to them? That, combined with the fact that Scouts do most of their damage from side or rear while they can do their damage from any angle (they can, riposts is another topic) would be 2 maior and unfair drawbacks of us compared to them, the only plusses we add are Evac and this tiny feature of Disarm traps... not that groups would not survive chesttraps without a Scout, they have a few seconds more downtime if at all.</P> <P>So the benefits of Brawler SCs are:</P> <UL> <LI>+ Damage from any angle</LI> <LI>+ Taunt</LI> <LI>+ Topend damage output (single target and AE)</LI> <LI>+ Good tanking</LI> <LI>+ Offense oriented battle buffs</LI> <LI>- High agro (after the improvements of the patch)</LI></UL> <P>The benefits from Rangers are:</P> <UL> <LI>+ Evacuate</LI> <LI>+ Track (very limited in range though)</LI> <LI>+ Stealth (mostly benefit for self)</LI> <LI>+ Low agro</LI> <LI>Average damage output</LI> <UL> <LI>- Have to spend a lot of money/efford to get apropriate Arrows/Poisons</LI> <LI>- Most damage skills are restricted in position</LI> <LI>- Bad AE / Encounter damage skills</LI> <LI>- To build in Archery into melee one has to find a very slim attackrange which, due to bugs or whatever, often time does not exist at all</LI></UL> <LI>Runspeed buff</LI> <UL> <LI>- worse than JBoots (even the retail box ones)</LI> <LI>- works only if the group is not engaged in combat</LI></UL> <LI>- Average tanking</LI></UL> <P>This doesn't yet include the comparison to Guardians, Paladins, Shadowknights and Berserkers, who all outdamage Scout SCs at least in AE encounters while maintaining (of course) superior tanking skills. And AE encounters are as important in EQ2 as single mob encounters since nearly half or more of the mobs are grouped.</P> <P> </P> <P>Seeing all this, Monks, Bruisers, Tanks and Sorcerer SCs (no clue yet about Summoner SCs) outdamaging us, even with single bow shots as someone wrote above, in the cases of the non-mage classes even outtanking us, makes me feel severly underbalanced. And knowing EQ players (which are a lot also in EQ2), the "selection for efficiency" will start soon latest. I want to add something to a group, something worthwhile, and since I am Scout it is damage, and since I am even Ranger it is archery based damage. And it is damage that is higher than the damage of classes that outtank me (against single mobs as well as grouped ones), but lower than the classes I outtank, as long as they are considered damage dealing classes.</P> <P>I would like to see either the Stealth requirering skills upgraded by a good chunk, or, even better, the bow requirering skills upgraded and a skill / innate ability to get more and better arrows - or even have unlimited (like Endless Quiver) with - as someone wrote above - lower delay bows. I want to get groups because they say "We need good DPS" and not because they say "We need Evac for when we are uncautious and the convenience of disarmed chests".<BR></P>