Rundown on Ranger Combat Arts

[Elisiodor]

<DIV>To start with, I am only level 23, so this isn't based on anything but what I have seen thus far, and what I expect to come.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem right now is most of the Combat Arts we get lack in utility to us as a class.  Many of these come from the Scout/Predator line, but some of what we get just upgrades those anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Hunter's Instinct:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> What is the deal with an AGI buff that has a recast of 30 seconds but only lasts 3 minutes? Why not go ahead and make the timer similar to pathfinding just to make it less of a pain to manage and keep up. I spend half the time with it down because I didn't realize it dropped-and it lasts at best 1-2 fights at my level. Put <FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim </FONT>into this category as well, it lasts long enough for 1 shot-whats the deal?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Dirty Tricks/Corner:</FONT> Not sure what exactly these abilities do for us. They are said to be debuffers that decrease the targets defense. I don't notice any advantage either with decrease in misses, or increased damage. I just use it to shift HO's if I am soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Open Shot: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Anyone else feel this is just a waste of arrows?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ensnare/Impede: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>What good is a slowed spell if you cannot use it with any range hardly? Also, why is it necessary to still sprint w/pathfinding to outrun a mob that was ensnared?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Pounce: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>I have yet to find a scenario where I wanted to attack up to 5 simultaneous targets and risk the agro of not assisting the main tank.  Do I need to point out the stupidity of this ability when soloing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Stalk:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> Hmm, it causes agro if you use it to <EM>stalk </EM>your prey. The only thing it is used for is a quick cast way to get into stealth for a stealth-required attack. Haven't seen it actually work as adept I in trying to lose agro-yet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Reconnoiter/</FONT><FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Long recast timers, and short duration just mean these are abilities that I rarely fool with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Pathfinding: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>This should be our single most beneficial buff, but it won't work when we need it most (engaged), so far, have yet to see much improvement in speed with Adepts, or level. Would be nice if we could actually improve this spell/buff to the point of outrunning agro without having to sprint. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>Again, I am only level 23, but looking ahead-I see more issues with getting more Combat Arts that really don't offer us the utility or benefit of actually using them. Don't get me wrong, I got the CA's that I like-but those are a handful compared to the more fluff that keeps coming. No-this isn't to say that I expect to be uber-but it would be nice to get some CA's that had some utility or useage. </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>The above is just how I feel. I am not going to quit playing or anything like that, but I haven't played in over a week because the grind for more useless CA's has made this game temporarily unappealing to me. At least until withdrawal sets in...</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Elisiodor on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[Ra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV>To start with, I am only level 23, so this isn't based on anything but what I have seen thus far, and what I expect to come.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem right now is most of the Combat Arts we get are useless to us as a class.  Many of these come from the Scout/Predator line, but some of what we get just upgrades those anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Hunter's Instinct:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> What is the deal with an AGI buff that has a recast of 30 seconds but only lasts 3 minutes? Why not go ahead and make the timer similar to pathfinding just to make it less of a pain to manage and keep up. I spend half the time with it down because I didn't realize it dropped-and it lasts at best 1-2 fights at my level. Put <FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim </FONT>into this category as well, it lasts long enough for 1 shot-whats the deal?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>I like the short recast - I use it every fight right before I enter stealth from Hunt.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Dirty Tricks/Corner:</FONT> Not sure what exactly these abilities do for us. They are said to be debuffers that decrease the targets defense. I don't notice any advantage either with decrease in misses, or increased damage. I just use it to shift HO's if I am soloing.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Both of these stop an attack from the mob.  When the tank is getting hammered I spam Corner as soon as it's up to allow the healer a bit of extra time to heal him.  Its hard to judge a defense decrease that is most likely small to begin with, but everyone's min/max is pretty wide it makes it even harder to see the effect.  This is also, hands down, the best skill to start an HO.  I have gotten so good with it that even in the middle of group macro spamming, I can hit my HO 50% of the time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Open Shot: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Anyone else feel this is just a waste of arrows?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Nope.  In soloing it rocks.  With Triple Shot, these are the only 2 bow skills you can use while kiting.  It also has a chance to double proc poison at times.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ensnare/Impede: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>What good is a slowed spell if you cannot use it with any range hardly? Also, why is it necessary to still sprint w/pathfinding to outrun a mob that was ensnared?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>One of the major major jobs of a Ranger is to keep a group alive if things are going badly.  Running with the mob as it chases a group member - and casting Impede on the mob every 15 seconds really works wonders at saving debt.  In soloing, this is used in conjunction with kiting to give some extra room for Open and Triple Shot to go off.  When you get the evac skill Escape at 25 you will see this job accentuate.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Pounce: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>I have yet to find a scenario where I wanted to attack up to 5 simultaneous targets and risk the agro of not assisting the main tank.  Do I need to point out the stupidity of this ability when soloing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Well I group most of the time with a chanter... so Pounce is useless.  But there are a few times that I have used it for a quick 250 damage.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Stalk:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> Hmm, it causes agro if you use it to <EM>stalk </EM>your prey. The only thing it is used for is a quick cast way to get into stealth for a stealth-required attack. Haven't seen it actually work as adept I in trying to lose agro-yet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>If I pull hate, I do 3 things.  Survival Instincts, Shadow (upgrade to Stalk), and Evade.  Shadow lowers threat level.  I am not keen on what exactly that is, but I feel lowering threat level allows me to shake hate with Evade that much easier.  My experience anyway.  And yes, low cast time on this mean's its awesome for stealth skills like Hidden Shot</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Reconnoiter/</FONT><FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Long recast timers, and short duration just mean these are abilities that I rarely fool with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#66ff00>Needs to be fixed, I agree.  Most of the time I forget about them because they have such a long recast and the effects are not noticeable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Pathfinding: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>This should be our single most beneficial buff, but it won't work when we need it most (engaged), so far, have yet to see much improvement in speed with Adepts, or level. Would be nice if we could actually improve this spell/buff to the point of outrunning agro without having to sprint. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#66ff00>I think the speed increase here is 25%.  A nice boost.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>Again, I am only level 23, but looking ahead-I see more issues with getting more Combat Arts that really don't offer us the utility or benefit of actually using them. Don't get me wrong, I got the CA's that I like-but those are a handful compared to the more fluff that keeps coming. No-this isn't to say that I expect to be uber-but it would be nice to get some CA's that had some utility or useage. </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#66ff00>It gets better.  When you hit 28 you will start seeing Ranger come into it's own.  And it gets better from there even.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>The above is just how I feel. I am not going to quit playing or anything like that, but I haven't played in over a week because the grind for more useless CA's has made this game temporarily unappealing to me. At least until withdrawal sets in...</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#66ff00>Keep at it!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Ravi on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:19 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ravi on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>07:20 AM</span>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>I'm also Level 23 and would like to dispute your complaints on a few items:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Open Shot:  Wonderful skill.  Do you know that you can fire this off while moving?  Pull with a back shot, throw out a wounding arrow then start running backwards while Open Shot fires.  bam!.  mob is at half hp before it even gets to you.  As for being a waste of arrows...the arrows are free if you take the time to summon them.  If you are having a problem keeping enough arrows then you must do nothing but fight non-stop.  I have tons of arrows stocked up from just running from place to place.  Invest in an upgrade to Makeshift Arrow and you will get more per cast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Corner:  Actually does make a difference.  I cannot provide exact DPS difference, I just know that mobs dropped faster when I changed from Dirty Tricks App-3 to Corner Adept 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Impede:  Finding yourself in a nasty fight that you know you can win but is really close?  Hit Impede and run backwards while firing off an Open Shot.  Can turn the tide in those tough fights.  Also good as an escape tool if you need to run.  Slap on an Impede and haul **mods 4 teh win!!1!**.  The little distance it gives can make the difference between a clean getaway and exp debt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pounce:  Fun skill to use when hunting pack mobs like antelopes and swarm beetles in a group.  No one seriously mezzes these mobs since they hit so weak.  Kinda fun to see 7 or 8 40-damage hits go off at once.  And each of those hits can proc your poisons...potentially giving you over 1k in total damage in one simple keystroke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Steady Aim:  Sure, we'd all love the recast to be shorter but it does not make the skill worthless.  I use this when the puller brings in a red-con mob or other tough beast.  Ever been in a fight so close that one good hit could prevent a wipe?  I have...and i was thankful for a little extra damage in my Backshot/Wounding Arrow combo.   The power cost is small so whats the harm in using it whenever its up?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really not sure what you are expecting from our Combat Abilities?  Instant kills?  1K Backshots on red-con mobs?  We're level 23...not supposed to be godly yet.  The "grind" feeling you have is self-imposed.  Lacking a few upgrades will not break your character.  Groups will not even know if you are using a green/blue skill.  If we use all the tools available to us we rock in group as well as solo.  Just get out there and shove an arrow up some mobs [Removed for Content] and enjoy the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ume]

<DIV>Hi,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You made some great points about the buffs and the short durations.  I rarely use them also, other than Survival Instincts when solo'n or getting aggro.  They really should increase the duration, especially on the Steady Aim line.  Howver, I think you are being overly critical of many of our other Tools of the Trade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think you're a little shortsighted on Corner.  It won't make the mob into a dribbling pile of ooze, but it will reduce its defenses and add some extra damage.  You can sometimes notice it on the big hits, but its just not very noticable unless you parse the numbers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Open shot is not useless...especially when kiting as its the only bow special I have that I can use in motion.  Just think of it as an extra attack much like most of our other attacks.  Waste of arrows is a little harsh.  lol.  Combined with Impeded, I can kite quite effectively.  2 rangers duo in TS kiting 4 centaurs  at a time using only impede and Open Shot is not a "waste of arrows"  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use stalk ALL the time.  Not only does it put us in sneak mode for our sneak special attacks, it also reduces aggro.  If you are trying to sneak up on mob, use hunt and not Stalk.  However, I have got my Hawk to tank briefly a few times by using Stalk to pull a mob with my hawk up.  When I pull, I will bow the mob on the way back to group including using Open Shot (the waste of arrows).  When I see the tank make the taunt motion, I use Stalk.  By the time stalk takes effect, my aggro is reduced so the mob turns to the tank and I'm in sneak mode to land a shadowblade or shadowflame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for pounce, I have never taken aggro from a decent tank using pounce, all it takes is one AE taunt.  If you are in a group that pulls several mob and the tanks doesn't hit his ae taunt, then you need to leave that group.  lol  Pounce is just one of the many attacks in our arsenal, this one just happens to hit 5 mob at once.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your points are valid about our buffs, but you should open your mind as to all the other abilities you mentioned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It seems that you want "The Single Combat Ability of Uberness" and maybe Ranger might not be for you.  You could have gone assasin and did 1k every 5 minutes.  Between Shadowblade and Back Shot, I can hit for 400+ sometimes.  BUT when I use all my attacks in combinations.  I think I have a standard 20+ Key combination i use on every mob...my DPS is AWESOME.  and on every mob, not just one mob every 5 minutes.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Pil]

<DIV><STRONG>Hunter's Instinct</STRONG>: does not bother me too much, but I also don't realy see lots of solid results from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Dirty Trick/Corner</STRONG>:  Same thing.  I started to use it on purpose last night to try and utilize de-buffs, but I was not tracking the damage numbers for an accurate test.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Open Shot</STRONG>:  I like this ability actually because you can fire it while moving.  So I usually go Back Shot -> Wounding Arrow -> Open Shot while running back into meelee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Ensnare/Impede</STRONG>: I use it after starting a solo pull in order to buy time to fire the slower Open Shot after openning with a back shot.  Basically to kite.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Pounce:</STRONG>  I use it some, in two places.  First if aggro leaks to a healer or caster, I will pull it on the mob I am fighting, hoping to draw the aggro off the weaker people.  Second, I basically treat it as a second Shadow Flame for variety.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Stalk</STRONG>:  I have used it to shed aggro successfully.  Its also the only way to hit a Shadow Blade in solo combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Reconnoiter/Steady Aim</STRONG>: I totally agree</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Pathfinding</STRONG>:  Upgrading Pathfinding is actually a bug.  The upgrade items are available, but it intentionally has absolutely no effect.  This is only a movement buff, not a "speed" buff, so no combat boost.   I can out run aggro all the time.</DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>Again, I am only level 23, but looking ahead-I see more issues with getting more Combat Arts that really don't offer us the utility or benefit of actually using them. Don't get me wrong, I got the CA's that I like-but those are a handful compared to the more fluff that keeps coming. <STRONG><U><FONT color=#ff0000>No-this isn't to say that I expect to be uber-but it would be nice to get some CA's that had some utility or useage. </FONT></U></STRONG></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>The above is just how I feel. I am not going to quit playing or anything like that, but I haven't played in over a week because the grind for more useless CA's has made this game temporarily unappealing to me. At least until withdrawal sets in...</SPAN></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>One-many of you brought up valid points, thanks. But for those of you making the uber comments and 1k Back Shot comments, learn to read-please. It would save us from the unnecessary pot shots. </P> <P>Corner that I know of DOES NOT interrupt a mob from using a CA on you. And like I said, in my tests, I don't notice any decrease in misses nor do I see improved damage. By improved I mean seeing that I hit for 1-3 points higher-nothing uber per say. If someone has parsed data that disproves that-please show me some results. Until my friend finishes writing his Parser, all we have is our words vs. each other.</P> <P>As for stalk, I understand what it does. And my point was at Adept 1, I don't think it is nearly successful as you describe. While I have done that-I have still taken agro from the mob. Of course-all of that may be because of a bad tank.</P> <P>Impede and Snare...the range seems to be like 5 feet. I don't expect to be able to slow a mob from Tower 1 in TS to the docks, but it would be nice to be able to snare a mob say at 15 feet before they can get to you.</P> <P>Also, another point I have out is that Adept 1 Hunt you would think would allow you to sneak through most ALL YELLOW mobs...that's not been my experience either. I think I can avoid around 60% of yellow agro mobs. Funny how if you're grped though-Hunt tends to work much more effectively even if the con does not change. That to me just doesn't make sense for a game that is said to be solo/group friendly. I spend most of my time in a group regardless, but it sucks that my sneak ability operates differently when I solo. </P>

[Ra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>One-many of you brought up valid points, thanks. But for those of you making the uber comments and 1k Back Shot comments, learn to read-please. It would save us from the unnecessary pot shots. </P> <P>Corner that I know of DOES NOT interrupt a mob from using a CA on you. And like I said, in my tests, I don't notice any decrease in misses nor do I see improved damage. By improved I mean seeing that I hit for 1-3 points higher-nothing uber per say. If someone has parsed data that disproves that-please show me some results. Until my friend finishes writing his Parser, all we have is our words vs. each other.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Try it in soloing.  It stops them from one round of attacks.</FONT></P> <P>As for stalk, I understand what it does. And my point was at Adept 1, I don't think it is nearly successful as you describe. While I have done that-I have still taken agro from the mob. Of course-all of that may be because of a bad tank.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>It's very successful IMO.  Everyone takes aggro at some point.  It's the life of a DPS class.</FONT></P> <P>Impede and Snare...the range seems to be like 5 feet. I don't expect to be able to slow a mob from Tower 1 in TS to the docks, but it would be nice to be able to snare a mob say at 15 feet before they can get to you.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>Who cares?  If done right, the mob won't hit you anyway</FONT></P> <P>Also, another point I have out is that Adept 1 Hunt you would think would allow you to sneak through most ALL YELLOW mobs...that's not been my experience either. I think I can avoid around 60% of yellow agro mobs. Funny how if you're grped though-Hunt tends to work much more effectively even if the con does not change. That to me just doesn't make sense for a game that is said to be solo/group friendly. I spend most of my time in a group regardless, but it sucks that my sneak ability operates differently when I solo. </P><FONT color=#66ff00>I have no clue what you are talking about.  I can sneak past mobs 4 levels above me with Adept 1.  Thats the highest level of orange.  5 levels above me is Red.  Some mobs simply see through all forms of stealth and invis.  Nothing can be done except to avoid them.</FONT><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ravi wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV>To start with, I am only level 23, so this isn't based on anything but what I have seen thus far, and what I expect to come.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem right now is most of the Combat Arts we get are useless to us as a class.  Many of these come from the Scout/Predator line, but some of what we get just upgrades those anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Hunter's Instinct:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> What is the deal with an AGI buff that has a recast of 30 seconds but only lasts 3 minutes? Why not go ahead and make the timer similar to pathfinding just to make it less of a pain to manage and keep up. I spend half the time with it down because I didn't realize it dropped-and it lasts at best 1-2 fights at my level. Put <FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim </FONT>into this category as well, it lasts long enough for 1 shot-whats the deal?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>I like the short recast - I use it every fight right before I enter stealth from Hunt.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ensnare/Impede: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>What good is a slowed spell if you cannot use it with any range hardly? Also, why is it necessary to still sprint w/pathfinding to outrun a mob that was ensnared?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>One of the major major jobs of a Ranger is to keep a group alive if things are going badly.  Running with the mob as it chases a group member - and casting Impede on the mob every 15 seconds really works wonders at saving debt.  In soloing, this is used in conjunction with kiting to give some extra room for Open and Triple Shot to go off.  When you get the evac skill Escape at 25 you will see this job accentuate.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>My problem is not about the short recast -its the short duration. Why not go ahead and increase the duration if the recast does not prevent us from keeping it up. It's just tedious for no real reasons. The recast is fine, but upgrade the duration at least.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the ensnare/impede, I have tried to use that, but the range is soo pitifully small, that if that fool takes off, your left chasing them to get in range. Would be nice if they would increase range to make our utility with this spell a bit more useful.</DIV>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>Elisiodor, you can't complain about people taking shots at you when you start a thread claiming that our CA's have no utility or usage.  Don't make such a solid statement if you are not prepared for rebuttal.  And to assert that anyone disagreeing with you lacks the ability to read is foolish.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HUnt works great.  I have used it to get past red-con mobs many times.  There are certain classes and types of mobs that will see through it no matter what (Like Giant Scouts).  Nothing you can do about that.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far it just looks like you are whining about not being "uber" enough.  Stop digging for the negative aspects and focus on the positives...your gaming experience will be much better for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Elisiodor, you can't complain about people taking shots at you when you start a thread claiming that our CA's have no utility or usage.  Don't make such a solid statement if you are not prepared for rebuttal. <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG><U> And to assert that anyone disagreeing with you lacks the ability to read is foolish.</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HUnt works great.  I have used it to get past red-con mobs many times.  There are certain classes and types of mobs that will see through it no matter what (Like Giant Scouts).  Nothing you can do about that.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So far it just looks like you are whining about not being "uber" enough.  Stop digging for the negative aspects and focus on the positives...your gaming experience will be much better for it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Hmm, I think if you <EM>read what I said, </EM>I agreed with many who made comments posting why certain abilities were useful-like Open Shot (some gave info that I didn't know-and that I applaud). However, I posted initially saying its not about making something uber-to which you get your typical "you just want to be L337" speak. There was NOTHING that said they CANNOT disagree with me. I am starting to remember why I don't like to post here. </P> <P>I didn't say -or at least did not mean-that our CA's have NO utility or useage. Some of them I do not believe work (Dirty Tricks/Corner). And unless you can prove they do with actual data-it's a moot point. To say they die faster is not a good argument when I say they die the same. </P> <P>Impede and Ensnare have ranges that are almost bogus for their abilities. The range should be upped a tad. It makes no sense for us to be able to snare a mob that is essentially right on top of us. It LIMITS your utility-doesn't mean you have none. </P> <P>Seriously folks, calm down, read the post. If you have something intelligent to contribute that adds to this conversation or shows me how some of these abilities work (like the folks talking about Open Shot)-then by all means do so. But don't join this conversation just to tell me I want to be L337 or that I can't complain. That's just not very good for this discussion. You can refute what I said, but at least do so with facts and/or some wit. </P> <P> </P> <P>/sigh :smileymad:</P>

[Bayler_x]

<DIV>Ensnare/Impede: Great for pulling.  Great for running away.  Great for helping other party members run away.  Good for generating extra agro when you want it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Pounce: I think it's a great skill.  I've only rarely had agro problems with it.  If you're having agro problems, perhaps your tanks suck.  Personally, I like this art so much, I just upgraded to Adept3.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stalk: Have you tried using Stalk pre-emptively?  Once you've already got agro Stalk doesn't always help you shake it.  But once you get a feel for your tank, you can learn to throw extra Stalks and Evades in to prevent getting agro, instead of just reacting to it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Reconnoiter/Steady Aim: You know that these can be used to make your Hunt stealth more effective, right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds as if you've got a lot of notions of how the arts *should* work, and you're dissappointed that the game doesn't match.  You'll probably be happier if you shake loose of those preconceptions, and instead learn what the arts *actually* do, and come up with clever applications for them.</DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bayler_xev wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It sounds as if you've got a lot of notions of how the arts *should* work, and you're dissappointed that the game doesn't match.  You'll probably be happier if you shake loose of those preconceptions, and instead learn what the arts *actually* do, and come up with clever applications for them.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Oh brother, I give up. Suddenly I don't know what the CA's do now. I beta tested this game for the better part of 6 weeks, I understand plenty. My beef on Steady Aim and Recon were that they are short duration long recast buffs. Which makes them <STRONG><U>almost </U></STRONG>useless. <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I give up. It's about improving your abilities and their usefulness. I didn't say they didn't do anything. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aringi]

I agree with ya BaylerI use reconnoiter (increases reconnanance skill) to sneak past mobs I previously couldn't. I haven't got hunt yet and my sneak is only App3 so even or yellow con mobs will see through sneak. If I use Reconnoiter and then sneak I can get past them. So I think this abilities is worth it even if it doesn't last very long.

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV> <P>"Impede and Ensnare have ranges that are almost bogus for their abilities. The range should be upped a tad. It makes no sense for us to be able to snare a mob that is essentially right on top of us. It LIMITS your utility-doesn't mean you have none. "</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Dude, they are MELEE skills. Do you notice how no arrows fire off when you use Impede?  That means your melee weapon is being used.  How long of a dagger are you using that the range?    Heaven forbid the mob gets close enough to smack you a couple times.  Still wearing your newbie armor?  If you've kept your equipment current you can take some hits while landing an Impede.  Or is it your position that we be given abilities that make us immune from being harmed?  How the hell does having Impete LIMIT our utility?  The only way that could be true is if our own movement rate were reduced by the skill.  You need to just stop replying, the more you try to defend yourself the more you show your ignorance.  </P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Vecsus_EQ2 on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Elisiodor]

<DIV>First off-these aren't melee strikes that slow the target. They are performed at range. Just the range is very limited. Because you are a Ranger, it does not mean that a CA has to use either your melee weapon or your bow. Some abilities are effects applied to a target. There's a reason there's a "Cloak and Hood" icon for this ability. If it were a <EM>melee skill</EM> as you say-it would have a "Sword" as it's icon. The graphic pic is even a stake in the ground with a trip wire-do you honestly want to think this skill is still dependent on your melee weapon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This place is hopeless-really...</DIV>

[Ra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV>First off-these aren't melee strikes that slow the target. They are performed at range. Just the range is very limited. Because you are a Ranger, it does not mean that a CA has to use either your melee weapon or your bow. Some abilities are effects applied to a target. There's a reason there's a "Cloak and Hood" icon for this ability. If it were a <EM>melee skill</EM> as you say-it would have a "Sword" as it's icon. The graphic pic is even a stake in the ground with a trip wire-do you honestly want to think this skill is still dependent on your melee weapon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This place is hopeless-really...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>No, not really.  The range is a balancing factor in addition to the length of effect and recast time.  Impede at Adept 1 lasts on the mob for 15 seconds.  It has a 30 second recast (I swear this drops to like 20 seconds with Adept 1..could be wrong).  During that 15 seconds it's active, you can easily open up a 5-10 second lead on the mob.  Meaning, when Impede affect drops, the mob will catch you in those 10 seconds - maybe getting 1-2 hits on you in which you recast and again open up a lead on the mob.  By increasing the range of Impede, you will unbalance this skill - allowing perpetual kiting and firing your bow from complete safety.  This is unacceptable.  Why should Rangers get the ability (ahem...exploit) to solo mobs without getting hit?  By increasing the range and keep balance, you must lessen the length of effect - which would make people cry that it doesn't last long enough to be of any noticeable help.</P> <P>Oh, and the reason you have to sprint in battle to run faster than the mob - with Pathfinding on - is that the speed boost from Pathfinding is disabled when you are in an encounter.</P>

[bli]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>"Impede and Ensnare have ranges that are almost bogus for their abilities. The range should be upped a tad. It makes no sense for us to be able to snare a mob that is essentially right on top of us. It LIMITS your utility-doesn't mean you have none. "</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Dude, they are MELEE skills. Do you notice how no arrows fire off when you use Impede?  That means your melee weapon is being used.  How long of a dagger are you using that the range?    Heaven forbid the mob gets close enough to smack you a couple times.  Still wearing your newbie armor?  If you've kept your equipment current you can take some hits while landing an Impede.  Or is it your position that we be given abilities that make us immune from being harmed?  How the hell does having Impete LIMIT our utility?  The only way that could be true is if our own movement rate were reduced by the skill.  You need to just stop replying, the more you try to defend yourself the more you show your ignorance.  </P></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Vecsus_EQ2 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:20 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Perhaps it is you that should not reply, lest we perceive your ignorance.  As the original poster has already said, these are not based on your weapon.  Impede is a ranger skill that allows us to entangle a mob and slow its movement.  An increase in range would make our lives EASIER, but that isn't something we really need (easier lives).</P> <P> </P> <P>Vescus, I don't know how much you've played your ranger, but if you don't have a firm grasp on the mechanics of it you shouldn't put people down or try to flame them.  I'm not saying you have no right to oppinions, of course you do.  And you have every right to post your oppinions, but it's a bad idea to try to dis people when you're actually wrong.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by blitz on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>Yes, they are performed at a range greater than normal melee (in fact, nearly all of our CAs have a longer than melee range...which makes no sense for something like an Impale).  How long would you like the range to be?  Long enough to make you immune from damage while you run around chucking arrows at the mob?  Oh wait...i forgot that you think Open Shot is a waste of arrows.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<DIV>Ravi-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with you partially. Except I don't think it's an issue that unbalances the class. Consider this-Impede and Snare are said to be broken if attacked. That was said at some point, if that has changed or is not the case then I am simply unaware of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said-the range shouldn't be huge, but I would at least like it upped so when a caster that is agro'd takes off running I can get a impede off to help him get to safety rather than have to sprint to try and get in range. I don't see adding a little to the range to make it useable at range making us these uber casters that just nuke mobs with our bow before they get to us-especially if I am right that damage will break the impede/ensnare. Even still, the impede wears out in 15 seconds, and can't be recast for another 15 seconds, so I don't see an overwhelming power here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously, you like the class as it is and kudos for that. But I think we could find somethings that can be improved. I think a <STRONG><U>slight increase to range</U></STRONG> on Impede and Ensnare would be a start. At least I could find more opportunities to use it, rather than sprinting to get in range to get there in time to Impede....then watch the caster die (who was not bright to take off to start with-but it happens, and it will happen again).</DIV>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>Yes, I misspoke when I said impede uses melee.  Not going to open up the skill tree while at work (pushing it as it is just posting here  ;p).  And yes, I am fully aware that a longer Impede range would make my life easier.  But we have to understand the balance of the game.  A range of 30m on Impede would make us nearly untouchable on even-con and lower mobs.  That is not something SOE is likely to do.  I was a BST in EQ1 and it annoyed the crap out of me to see other BSTs asking for all these senseless upgrades which would imbalance the class.  SOE tries to be careful about balance and when a class keeps whining about senseless upgrades it detracts from the legitimate requests that are submitted.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  So I apologize for my error (though it does not really detract much from the premise of my arguement).  </DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vecsus_EQ2 wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P><STRONG>Dude, they are MELEE skills. Do you notice how no arrows fire off when you use Impede?  That means your melee weapon is being used.  How long of a dagger are you using that the range?    </STRONG><BR></P></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Hmm-I thought Melee range was your argument-was their another one, because I completely lost your point in your insults...beside, I would say the range currently is more like 5m, bumping it to 15m would give you a better opportunity to use it-but it is not going to make you uber L337 and soloing yellows and oranges without a scratch. If you think that-let me know-because I would love to be there to sit and watch you get smacked around a bit.<BR>

[Ra]

<DIV>I disagree.  When considering balance, you must take into account all the ways in which the skill can be used.  Obviously, this includes soloing as well as group use.  If they increased the radius of Impede, they would have to shorten the time of effect, or lessen the speed reduction to the mob to counterbalance the other ways Impede can be used.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While it sucks to have to sprint to catch the chasing mob, it's your job to do it if you have the extra power to do so.  You should recognize beforehand when the caster would take off running so the distance to catch up wouldn't be that great anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I like it.  It's almost like a rodeo :smileyvery-happy:  I cannot begin to count how much debt I have saved my groups.  And the few times I have failed... well 100% is no challenge at all now is it?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT**  I agree with you on Steady Aim though :smileywink:  Also I wish Ranged had a smaller damage range and instead dealt more consistent damage, at least on CA.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ravi on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:49 AM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>Another use for impede.  When I pull, as I get closer to the group, I will smack it with Impede to make it easier for the tank to target the mob for the taunt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sometimes I'll be running and I'll just impede a random mob, call for help, then start running....not very useful...but its fun to be a mile up the road while the mob is chasing you and you turn around and laugh then keep running.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're a kiting ranjah, impede can mean the difference between getting hit 10 times or getting hit 5 times.  Mob Hits=200...Ranger HP=1100.  5 hits=damaged ranger....10 hits=-dead ranger.  Impede is awesome!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to complain about something, complain about "Combat Speed".  I'm a speedy ranjah and just because I attack a mob, I suddenly slow down to snail's pace?  like this mob has some sort of strange physics gravity pull?  I thought "removing" kiting was stupid to begin with.  As I continue to play I have noticed the removal of combat speed would not dramatically increase the progress of characters.  It might make some tough fights a little easier.  But take for example a ranger bow kiting.  It still takes just as long for a ranger to do enough damage whether the mob is even speed with you or if you outrun it a little bit.  Sure, I might die a little less but i think I die a little too much as it is.  If they are concerned about folks being able to solo the "Great Mob of Uberness" then just make the named mob run faster than normal mob.  Maybe give the mob some Sprint AI or something when its being kited.  Anyway, that is my rant for the day.  Tank groups=boring Kite groups=chaotic funness.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peace Ranjahs,</DIV> <DIV>Umer Uberbow</DIV> <DIV>Shizznit Ranjah of Crushbone</DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> umerr wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peace Ranjahs,</DIV> <DIV>Umer Uberbow</DIV> <DIV>Shizznit Ranjah of Crushbone</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>[Removed for Content]-nice name and sig...I like it.:smileyvery-happy:<BR>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>I agree that kiting should have been left in the game.  Kiting carries its own set of risks (multi-agro being one of them) and costs (mana/power, arrows, etc).  If people are willing to assume those risks then they should be allowed to.  Right now we can semi-kite but its kinda like trying to fly a kite with an oscillating fan providing the wind....weak and marginally effective.  I prefer to think of our "kite" as and extended pull.</DIV>

[Aringi]

EQ2 Devs didn't want kiting an option in this game as it was extremely powerfull in EQL (ie Quadkiting, Swarmkiting, etc.). As such your movement buffs (Pathfinding) is suspended in combat which is why your are slowing down.They felt that if you can damage a mob then the mob can damage you, which i agree with, but to each their own.

[ume]

<DIV>I don't really care if people do not want it.  I want this game to be my way!  I /bugged to try and get the name of the game changed to umerquest and I'm still waiting on a reply.  I have /bugged not being able to kite 1400 times in hopes of getting the dev's attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In RL, If I fight a bear I'm not gonna take it head on with a pair of daggers.  I'm going to use my cunning and wits to kill that bear.  My first bow shot is gonna be at his leg to slow him down then I'm gonna run as fast as I can and turn around to fire another arrow at the 3 legged [Removed for Content] bear, eventually wearing him down until he bleeds to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wait...Ok...I have found a way to justify "Combat Speed" without the Convenient Physics (tm).  I'm going to assume that combat speed is caused by engaging the bear like this:  If I run up to a bear in RL and I shoot a bear with my arrow and it starts running at me....Im' going to pee my pants and the pee soaked pants will slow down my run speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have all been reduced to scared little feeble adventurers with pee-soaked pants!</DIV>

[Ra]

<DIV>Yes because in real life I can weave my hands around in the air and create a glowing ball of energy which then flies out and a spirit of a wolf leaps out of my chest allowing me to run faster.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I would <FONT color=#ff0000>love </FONT>to see you take out a bear with a bow in RL.  You better go for a 1-hit kill cause I have news for you:  Bears can run faster than humans.  He will have your thigh for dinner.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ravi on <span class=date_text>12-14-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[ume]

<DIV>Well I was going for the humor and trying to remain humble, but since I've been challenged....I have killed a bear in RL with a pair of carbonite hunting knives...but it hurt really bad.  After the 3 year hospital recovery I went and tried it again using the bow technique I mentioned above and it went much smoother...I ran out of arrows but luckily I picked up some wood scraps from the forest floor and made 15 arrows while I was kiting the bear.  Then when i was done I wandered upon a camping of some fine looking furry women with cat like eyes and we partied and ate bear meat...and we lived happily ever after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So as you can see, there is no need to argue my insanely comedic theories with real life examples.  thanks you  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Ra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> umerr wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>In RL, If I fight a bear I'm not gonna take it head on with a pair of daggers.  I'm going to use my cunning and wits to kill that bear.  My first bow shot is gonna be at his leg to slow him down then I'm gonna run as fast as I can and turn around to fire another arrow at the 3 legged [Removed for Content] bear, eventually wearing him down until he bleeds to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wait...Ok...I have found a way to justify "Combat Speed" without the Convenient Physics (tm).  I'm going to assume that combat speed is caused by engaging the bear like this:  If I run up to a bear in RL and I shoot a bear with my arrow and it starts running at me....Im' going to pee my pants and the pee soaked pants will slow down my run speed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have all been reduced to scared little feeble adventurers with pee-soaked pants!</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Now, did I really need to quote why I responded the way I did? :smileyindifferent:</P> <P>But yeah... hahah... In RL some people hunt bears with a gun from a helicoptor... wait... wouldn't that be reverse-kiting?</P> <P> </P> <P><BR></P>

[ume]

<DIV>This was an excellent idea Ravi.  I have /petitioned to have Soe give carpenters the ability to make Helicopters for bear kiting.  Not only will Carpenters finally have an usefulness, but using a helipcopter to kite the mob will actually make kiting a little more difficult than the way it was in eq.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a ranger In EQ, I could snare a mob for 14 minutes down to a crawl.  and spam my level 9 aggro spell and you could send an army after the mob and they would never take aggro from me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On my bard, I could have 10 mob chase me for a half hour while I wittle them down to nothing....and that was after they nerfed charm kiting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a wizzie, you could AE snare 4 mob and use your AE nukes...rest a few minutes, then do it again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a necro, you can snare a mob, turn your pet taunt off...DoT the heck out of the mob and laugh at it to death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All of these are examples of why kiting was SOO easy in EQ.  Rather than reducing the uber kiting ability in EQ2, they decide to remove it completely with arbitrary and unrealistic limitations.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I thought they went too far by removing kiting before I played the game, now after playing for 46 levels (between me and my alts) I now KNOW this was a silly knee jerk reaction to something that made the game uber fun for me.  Now i'm forced to stand behind a mob and hope the meatshield knows how to hit the taunt button.  80% of the pickup groups I get into die and breakup the first fight but I'm forced to keep looking.  At least in EQ, you weren't forced to group up with noobs.  If you were level 55 and you got into a group everyone knew what they were doing.  You had to know how to play well to get to 55.  Now I'm forced to group with the guy that picks his nose the whole time he is playing and the only reason he is level 25 is because he got lucky in his Lfg's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I can't kite, at least make this pvp so I could slay the idiot who gave me the debt.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, I'm just ranting a bit.  I LOVE THIS GAME and I love SOE for creating this amazing world!</DIV>

[Ra]

<DIV>Personally, I think Pathfinding should be killed when an encounter starts and recast afterward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>OMG!</FONT> <EM>WHO SAID THAT?   <FONT size=1>The wind!</FONT></EM></DIV>

[ume]

<DIV>Cmon Ravi...you know you wanna kite with me...stop arguing with my AWESOME ideas just to argue  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just to be spiteful to SOE, I'm going to get a group of 6 rangers, line em up, and all hit our bow specials at the same time.  WHoever gets aggro we'll just chain impede and kite them around.  I did this with one other ranger and we were killing 4 yellow centaurs at a time...half a level in an hour.  I wonder what 6 can do?  hmmm...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll let you know how it goes tonight...oh nm...I have a raid...blah...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Keep them bows high Rangers!  SIgning out for the day (leaving work) cya tomorrow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[bli]

<DIV>I Vote we change the name to Umerquest! Lets rally some supporters and post this on the main forum!</DIV>

[Sotaudi]

<P>Well, I am glad some serious discussion on the topic has ensued.  Except you are all missing the obvious solution.  Our level 20 pet should be the helicopter, and we should be able to ride in it to kite them.</P> <P>But on to the less serious suggestions brought up by the original post.  My comments are in <FONT color=#ffff00>this color</FONT>:</P> <P><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV>To start with, I am only level 23, so this isn't based on anything but what I have seen thus far, and what I expect to come.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest problem right now is most of the Combat Arts we get lack in utility to us as a class.  Many of these come from the Scout/Predator line, but some of what we get just upgrades those anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Hunter's Instinct:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> What is the deal with an AGI buff that has a recast of 30 seconds but only lasts 3 minutes? Why not go ahead and make the timer similar to pathfinding just to make it less of a pain to manage and keep up. I spend half the time with it down because I didn't realize it dropped-and it lasts at best 1-2 fights at my level. Put <FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim </FONT>into this category as well, it lasts long enough for 1 shot-whats the deal?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ffff00>Hunter's Instinct is fine the way it is.  It has a short duration, but it can be recast at any time.  You simply recast before each fight as part of your prep, and go.  No big deal.  Give it a 12 hour duration like other kinds of buffs, and you may as well give us a permanent +10 to agility.  Since agility is our most important stat, having to manage it is the balance.  I have no problem with it as it is.</FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Dirty Tricks/Corner:</FONT> Not sure what exactly these abilities do for us. They are said to be debuffers that decrease the targets defense. I don't notice any advantage either with decrease in misses, or increased damage. I just use it to shift HO's if I am soloing.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Dirty Tricks/Corner:  I have read that they drop the target AC.  Could not say if that is true, but regardless, you can see at least one of their effects if you hit the undead with it.  This skill effect on them and on some other two legged critters (Hiwaymen and, I think, Scarecrows, etc.), is hands down my favorite animation in the game.  Their legs get all wobbly and the go crashing to their knees.  You can almost hear them exclaim, "Holy Crap!!!!  What was that?" as they drop.  So whether it has secondary effects like dropping AC, I could not say, but at the very least on some critters, you do get a free shot or two on them as they fall and have to get back up.  I use it constantly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Open Shot: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Anyone else feel this is just a waste of arrows?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Open Shot:  Two shots in one combat round = twice the damage if both hit, twice the chance you will get a hit with poison.  It also ignores some enemy armor, meaning it is more likely to hit.  Additionally, it does not require a specific target facing, and it can be fired while moving.  Why would you not use it?  Backshot followed by Wounding Arrow, wait for Wounding Arrow to fire, queue Open Shot and start backing up until it fires (stopping just before it fires to improve accuracy), then queue Lucky Break and Dirty Tricks/Corner as your opening sequence.  If everything hits right, you will have a blue con mob down to half life and two hits away from firing off an HO by the time you start the heart of your melee attack.  Alternatively for lower level mobs, you can fire Backshot followed by Wounding Arrow to start one fight, then start the next fight with Open Shot followed by Wounding Arrow while you wait for Backshot to recharge.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ensnare/Impede: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>What good is a slowed spell if you cannot use it with any range hardly? Also, why is it necessary to still sprint w/pathfinding to outrun a mob that was ensnared?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>The Ensnare/Impede skills have been discussed above, so I will not rehash but to say I believe changing them would hurt balance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Pounce: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>I have yet to find a scenario where I wanted to attack up to 5 simultaneous targets and risk the agro of not assisting the main tank.  Do I need to point out the stupidity of this ability when soloing?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>If I am the tank, as is often the case when I am with a healer and a caster and no other viable tank option, Pounce is great for getting everyone's attention on me right from the start.  Likewise, hitting a bunch of stuff for 50 or so damage each when the tank already has their attention is much less likely to attact attention than hitting something for 300+ damage with one shot, as I have done with Shadow Blade on more than one occassion.  Likewise, if I draw attention with a bunch of 50 or so hits, it is much easier for the tank to regain all their attention with a group taunt than rather than if I had hit one of them for 200 - 300 damage with my opening shot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Soloing, it depends on the mobs.  For lower level critters I have to kill for a city writ or some other quest, I would sometimes rather hit 5 critters at 50 damage each for 250 total points, plus get the chance to proc both Blade Furry and poisons, than to hit one critter for, say, 180 damage with a low hit with Shadow Blade.  For higher level groups, I would rather chance getting a big hit on the primary target, but for lower level groups, I would sometimes rather hit them all with some damage.  And sometimes, it just looks cool.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Stalk:</FONT><FONT color=#ffffff> Hmm, it causes agro if you use it to <EM>stalk </EM>your prey. The only thing it is used for is a quick cast way to get into stealth for a stealth-required attack. Haven't seen it actually work as adept I in trying to lose agro-yet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Stalk is not intended to be a solo skill.  I have only seen it described usefully in a solo situation twice.  Once was in this post suggesting it can be used to get them to target your pet.  However, this may well be considered an exploit, so I do not think I would use it that way.  One other suggestion was to stun them with Cheap Shot, then hit Stalk and move into Stealth while moving around to fire off a flanking attack from stealth.  I have only gotten this latter to work once, so I do not find it that useful, though I continue to try to get the timing down.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>It is just not designed for solo use.  If you are alone, reducing hate will not get the critter to ignore you and turn to something else, because if you are solo, by definition, there is no where else for it to turn its attention.  The move to stealth will not get them to stop attacking you so unless you stun them first, it hs no real use in solo mode other than what I have said above.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>On the other hand, in a group situation, when there is a tank to generate hate, it works well under the right conditions.  Use Hunt and let the tank pull.  Get in position behind the target, hit them with Shadow blade, followed by Stalk, followed by a second Stealth attack like Shadow Flame, Ambush, or even Pounce.  And if you have not fully angered them by now, you can even hit Evade then Sneak and followup with a third from Stealth attack, followed by Sneak Attack if they are still oblivious to you and still alive.  If you have drawn aggro, and have not gotten them so POed that the tank has no chance of drawing their attention back, Stalk or Evade followed by Stalk will reduce hate enough to get them to refocus their attention.   I have also used it when I am the tank to save my butt when just a hit or two more may kill me, provided the other members of the group have been doing sufficient damage.  In a close fight, do as much damage as I can, then if I am close to going down, hit Evade and Stalk, lose aggro then if necessary, hit them with a stealth attack or drop back and hit them with Backshot/Wouding Arrow/Open Shot or just fire normal ranged attacks to avoid redrawing aggro.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Reconnoiter/</FONT><FONT color=#ff3300>Steady Aim: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Long recast timers, and short duration just mean these are abilities that I rarely fool with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ffff00>Steady Aim would certainly be more useful with a different recast time.  Reconnoiter...changing it may unbalance things.  I would have to think about that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ff0000>Pathfinding: </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>This should be our single most beneficial buff, but it won't work when we need it most (engaged), so far, have yet to see much improvement in speed with Adepts, or level. Would be nice if we could actually improve this spell/buff to the point of outrunning agro without having to sprint. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody><FONT color=#ffff00>They do not want us to be able to kite while in combat.  Therefore, all movement buffs are suspended while engaged.  This would include SoW.  It does not go away, it is just suspended while locked in combat.  Break the encounter, and not only does the buff work, but you can actually recharge health and power while running at the improved rate.  With Pathfinding up, even highly aggressive MoBs cannot do any real damage to me if I have to run, and I have run far enough to recharge and dispatch them, so I do not see any need to change this.  Yesterday, in fact, Holly Windstalker came out of nowhere and started chasing me while I was killing Basilisks for fun and profit.  I sprinted away, noticed Pathfinding was down.  Stopped and recast it, and started running at the heightened rate and stayed out of range until she got bored and gave up.  I took a few big hits, but I was never in any real danger.  In fact, the only time it has not saved me was when I got hit by some nasty DoTs while soloing and could not survive their effects.  Make it any more powerul, and it would be unbalanced.  It has a 15 minute duration, and can be recast at some point before its time is up.  No need to change it, really.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>Again, I am only level 23, but looking ahead-I see more issues with getting more Combat Arts that really don't offer us the utility or benefit of actually using them. Don't get me wrong, I got the CA's that I like-but those are a handful compared to the more fluff that keeps coming. No-this isn't to say that I expect to be uber-but it would be nice to get some CA's that had some utility or useage. </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>The above is just how I feel. I am not going to quit playing or anything like that, but I haven't played in over a week because the grind for more useless CA's has made this game temporarily unappealing to me. At least until withdrawal sets in...</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Elisiodor on <SPAN class=date_text>12-14-2004</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:33 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P>

[Elisiodor]

<DIV>You people kill me with the balance issue. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As if they tweaked the distance on impede and ensnare is all of a sudden going to make you this uber Ranger that can quad-kite some orange con'd giants...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A little range, I am not talking about going from 5m-50m, I am saying like 5-15m.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, as for our buffs-you tell me how reconnoiter is gonna make me uber? Or Steady Aim for that matter.. Because I can actually do a better job of sneaking most of the time is going to unbalance our class??? Steady Aim has yet to show me how it makes a difference in damage or accuracy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On hunter's Instinct, why on earth does it make sense to do a 30 sec recast spell with a 3 minute duration just to be a headache to manage. It drops about midway through a second fight, or after the first fight. Make the duration 5 minutes and we have a decent improvement that makes this less of a headache to manage. Honestly, I think the duration should be similar to Pathfinding (15min). And to your "just give us +10 on Agi remark, the same should be said for Pathfinding then-just give us a natural 25% speed increase and to heck with the spell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The class doesn't have to be tedious to manage, and we should have buffs that allow us to do our jobs better that can actually be used.  I don't know how Recon for 2 minutes is ever going to benefit me...sneaking past a tough mob in a dungeon means I will have to sneak past more once I get past him, and I just better hope recon doesn't wear off by then....but wait-somehow being able to sneak unbalances the game....sheesh</DIV>

[Ra]

<DIV>Boxing gloves are off since you can't comprehend simple logic.  If you can't understand the concept of balance, then you are beyond help.  I can already kite mobs from relative safety.  Sure, they get a few hits in - as designed.  Adding range to Impede will allow me to do it even better - with little to no threat to my well being.  Other classes can't kite, so why should we be able to?   Hell when my group is trying to get through add territory for a camp last night - they added - I purposely GAINED aggro and ran it off because I can do so with 100% success between my avoidance and Impede (minus caster mobs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Impede - DEAL WITH IT.  You <STRONG><U>DO </U></STRONG>want some uber range for it so you can easily get 100% success just by pressing a button.  I WIN!  This is a <STRONG>game</STRONG>, what fun is it if you can never lose?  Try actually getting some skills and working with what you have, because let me tell you - I have NO problems with the way Impede is currently implemented.  Which tells me, you are doing something WRONG.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hunters Instinct - How hard is it to hit a macro before every fight?  It refreshes the timer - you are good to go.  Hunters Instinct -> Hunt.  If your fights last longer than 3 minutes your group is screwed anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Steady Aim/Recon - Yep, this one is screwed.  It needs to be looked at.  Its a freaking 5 minute ability which says to me that it should be extremely effective... but it isn't... in any way, shape or form.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Elisiodor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ravi wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <FONT color=#ff0033>I have NO problems with the way Impede is currently implemented.  Which tells me, you are doing something WRONG</FONT>.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <FONT color=#ff0033>How hard is it to hit a macro before every fight?  </FONT> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Ravi-are you an only child? Just wondering...cause the venom you spew in your self-centered world of arrogant abilities is concerning..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How hard is it to just increase the timer where we dont have to refresh it before every fight? Or at least make the adept/master abilities increase its duration. That's a moot point, but continue to argue it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Vecsus_E]

<DIV>Elisiodor, every reply you post makes you look more and more [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].   Why not just ask for perm Hunters instinct and pathfinding?  Are you so mentally defective that you cannot hit a simple key every other fight?   Good think you did not choose bard...all those songs would have pushed you over the edge.</DIV>

[Ra]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV><STRIKE>Ravi-are you an only child? Just wondering...cause the venom you spew in your self-centered world of arrogant abilities is concerning..</STRIKE></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How hard is it to just increase the timer where we dont have to refresh it before every fight? Or at least make the adept/master abilities increase its duration. That's a moot point, but continue to argue it. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>On Impede - Actually, pretty hard.  You forget  - there are TONS of levels of balance to consider.  Not just for within the skill, but combat, non-combat, cross-class, multi-level range, skill effectiveness, stackable effects, higher level skills, against mob buffs/debuffs/level/skills, practical uses, impractical uses.  TONS of stuff.  Now, of course - this is what we pay SOE for.  Indeed they owe us this, but not on something so benign an issue as Impede.  </P> <P>SOE says:  1 + 1 + 1 = 3</P> <P>Elisiodor says: 1 + 1 + 1 = 2</P> <P>Of course balance is continually looked at.  Many things will be changed.  But ya know what?  I think Impede is overpowered <STRONG>as it is</STRONG>.  <EM>*GASP*</EM> I think they should halve the duration to allow us to kite long enough to get off an Open and Triple shot, then back to melee.  Halving the duration would still allow us to run off those adds and save group members being chased.  Yet, you want to make it more powerful???</P> <P>Every skill has it's own rules and limitations to discover.  It's up to the player to learn them and work with them to use the skill effectively.  Something you obviously aren't doing.... because Impede is one of our best skills.<BR> <HR> </P> <P>On Hunter's Instinct - It's upgraded to Forester's Insight - which, in addition to a bigger increase in AGI - it ups movement speed and stacks with Pathfinding.  It lasts 3 minutes on a 30 second timer and costs pennies to cast.  Power is a cheap commodity in this game.  Hit the macro after every fight, it's as simple as that.</P> <P>But yes, please continue to make asinine comments about how Impede utterly sucks.  Make yourself out to look like a bad player.  I don't care.</P> <P>This is Ravi <STRONG>on a bad day. </STRONG></P>

[Aza]

i still want an helicopter....

[Sotaudi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elisiodor wrote:<BR> <DIV>You people kill me with the balance issue. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As if they tweaked the distance on impede and ensnare is all of a sudden going to make you this uber Ranger that can quad-kite some orange con'd giants...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A little range, I am not talking about going from 5m-50m, I am saying like 5-15m.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Second, as for our buffs-you tell me how reconnoiter is gonna make me uber? Or Steady Aim for that matter.. Because I can actually do a better job of sneaking most of the time is going to unbalance our class??? Steady Aim has yet to show me how it makes a difference in damage or accuracy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On hunter's Instinct, why on earth does it make sense to do a 30 sec recast spell with a 3 minute duration just to be a headache to manage. It drops about midway through a second fight, or after the first fight. Make the duration 5 minutes and we have a decent improvement that makes this less of a headache to manage. Honestly, I think the duration should be similar to Pathfinding (15min). And to your "just give us +10 on Agi remark, the same should be said for Pathfinding then-just give us a natural 25% speed increase and to heck with the spell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The class doesn't have to be tedious to manage, and we should have buffs that allow us to do our jobs better that can actually be used.  I don't know how Recon for 2 minutes is ever going to benefit me...sneaking past a tough mob in a dungeon means I will have to sneak past more once I get past him, and I just better hope recon doesn't wear off by then....but wait-somehow being able to sneak unbalances the game....sheesh</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The comparison to Pathfinding is pointless.  Pathfinding does last for 15 minutes, yes.  But Pathfinding also suspends the moment you lock the encounter, and it cannot be recast at will to refresh it.  I frequently get a "Would not take Effect" error trying to recast Pathfinding when I am just trying to make sure it will not expire just before I start into a particularly tough battle.  Those are not exactly features I would prefer for Hunter's Instinct, thank you very much.  Truth is, I find myself running around with Pathfinding down more often than I find myself involved in a fight without Hunter's Instinct running because the long duration of the former lulls you into forgetting it is going to expire at some point.  Besides a more valid comparison would be to one of the Druids' AGI buffs.  But those cost them Concentration points.  I would much rather Hunter's Instinct be a short duration which can be recast at will rather than have it be a longer duration that cannot be recast until it is just about to run out or for it to use Concentration points.</P> <P>But the heart of the issue is still how is pushing one button before you start a fight "tedious"?  As was said elsewhere, Hunter's Instinct, then Hunt, then start the fight.  Think about it.  Your complaint is that it often does not last through two fights but that pressing a single extra button before you start that second fight is too "tedious."  From that perspective, why should I have to press Hunt before I start a fight?  So many of our best abilities require stealth, and it takes far longer to active any stealth skill than it does to refresh Hunter's Instinct.  And, heck, Stealth never lasts beyond the first hit I make, and sometimes not even that long if they detect me, much less making it most of the way through the next fight.  So if it is no big deal to press Hunt before each fight, why is it that big of a deal to also press Hunter's Instinct before each fight?  You are really making a big deal out of a very small issue.</P> <P>And if you are going to complain of other posters responses, I would suggest you review your own responses, like, "but wait-somehow being able to sneak unbalances the game....sheesh," as if anyone who disagrees with you or has a different perspective on the balance of the game has no capacity for reason.  Compare that to Ravi's suggestion that your complaint that pressing a single button must be too tedious means that you must be doing something wrong, and I find it hard to see how you can justify the vitriolic response of "Ravi-are you an only child? Just wondering...cause the venom you spew in your self-centered world of arrogant abilities is concerning ... That's a moot point, but continue to argue it."  Your tone in these responses has been intentionally condescending, and when someone suggests that your arguments suggest to them that you may be doing something wrong, you have the nerve characterize their reply as "arrogant" and "self-centered."  If you cannot see the obvious hypocrisy in that statement, then you are correct, it is pointless to argue any further, so I will not even bother responding to your other points.</P>

[Darkk]

<DIV>hm...u sure u can't refresh it?? coz i haven't got that problem....i only getting that "Would not take effect" issue when i have a higher lvl scout class in group as he casted one to override mine...and surely i can't override his...</DIV>

[Kamiusd]

I really don't see the big deal with Hunter's Instinct it just a habit to rebuff. At first it kinda bothered me but, I rarely notice it now. I generally apply it after a fight the power cost is quite reasonable so it's not overly draining. Steady Aim on the other hand I wish was simular to the Hunter's instinct line. Although I generally use it on incoming high con pulls and that's about it.Dirty tricks and the replacement corner says debuff all I need to know keep on the mob as much as possible. Most likely it is a very small reduction to ac which you will not see a huge difference from but, it is worth while to keep on the mob none the less.Openshot is a great skill you can use it on the move and can proc your poisons multiple times nothing wrong with it as far as I see.Impede on the other hand is fantastic I pulled for my group just tonight for a solid hour. Just run up to your target turn to face the way you are gonna run and spam it as you back up soon as it goes off hightail it to your group. The thing is there is some kinda weird delay in the speed reduction effect may be a bug not sure though. I found that I tended to get cracked in the head a few times before there was enough space for me to run freely. BTW The centaurs snare is much much better than ours so watch the pariah when pulling.Pounce I do agree with you about it, rarely used. Though it's not totally useless but, could have been better. The low damage output on each mob pretty much keeps you safe when the tank uses ae taunt on big groups of worthless mobs. Course the only time I really have used it is against the antelope herds in ant.I personally love Stalk super fast cast time drops some agro leaves you in stealth for shadow blade. Of course I have grouped with other rangers and they complain about stalk not getting the mob off of them, once they have already over did it. You have to find your limit and manage your agro before the creature is so ticked off he's tring to kill you.Reconnoiter falls in the same category as steady aim if a fight is getting really close or they pull in something red I just blow them off and hope they are doing something.Hmm Pathfinding if I'm not mistaken stacks with sprint once you yell for help. I read that somewhere but, not totaly sure about it. That's the one skill I wish was at least as good as sow. All and all I think the ranger skills I have aquired so far are great damage wise the class is viable and each skill set seems to be getting a little better.

[Aza]

the thing i have done with hunters instinct is i have combined it with hunt in a macro. So if the tank pulls i just hit my macro (which i have on my quickbar instead of hunt now) and viola i get buffed with hunters instinct and then enter stealth. no more forgetting hunters instinct before fights <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the macro to do this is ": ; useability Hunter's Instinct ; useability Hunt"

[Gali]

<DIV>I want to add a comment about Reconnoiter.</DIV> <DIV>The way I see it, this art is only useful from level 11 when it's received, till approximately level 15. Here's why.</DIV> <DIV>What Reconnoiter does is it increases the 'reconnaissance' skill. This is the skill associated with 'Sneak' art. By increasing 'Reconnaissance', you become able to hide from mobs with 'Sneak' more effectively. However, there is a ceiling: you achieve m astery of 'Sneak' when your 'Reconnaissance' hits 55. I'm not sure when it happens, but I think it does pretty early in the game. Once you have 55 native, raising further with 'reconnoiter' does nothing.</DIV> <DIV>OTOH, 'Hunt' does not have a ceiling. But it is based on a different skill - 'Stalking'. The higher your 'Stalking', the better your ability to hide from mobs with 'Hunt'. 'Reconnoiter' does not affect 'Hunt'. The first buff you get a that increases 'Stalking' is at level 25, called 'Natural Instinct'.</DIV> <DIV>And BTW, contrary to what many people think, 'Sneak' does not stack with 'Hunt'. </DIV>