Ranger aggro?

[mel]

<DIV>How is aggro handled in EQ2? I havent been in many groups, but it wasnt the hardest thing to gain aggro in them as a scout. As a ranger, doing more DPS then the other scout classes, how is aggro handled. Are we reliant on just evade? Does the mob run all the way over to us when we are outside the group arching? Maybe arrows dont produce aggro, or as much as melee, like in EQ1?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mel]

<DIV>This is important information that is vital to choosing this class, and needs to be spread through out the boards. If you know the answer, please respond.</DIV>

[Deis of Desti]

<DIV>Using Evade and Stalk I can usually shake off most agro when there is a decent tank taunting, but there have been a number of times that my damage has outdone a lesser tanks taunting abilities. By using Survival Instincts I can avoid any bad consequences that may happen though.</DIV>

[Cex]

ANY CLASS CAN TAKE AGGRO. With that said, high damage classes can take aggro even easier. If you find yourself grouped with a tank of same or lower level than yourself and you are doing your skills constantly trying to maximise your dps...YOUR GOING TO GET AGGRO. However If your back arching and not in melee you arnt really doing your best dps until much much higher level and even that is still in debate.

[Neec]

<DIV>As a ranger i ALWAYS end up with Agro unless i dont attack until he mob is half dead..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>from nearly every TAUNTING tank i have grouped with (some very good) i always end up taking agro after 2 or 3 hits (EVEN using bow and backshot etc) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So i can take agro from a tank EASY..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MAGES... when they pull agro (usually cuz they not assisting )  it normaly takes 2-3 hits t opull agro back..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clerics on the other hand TANKS  dont seem to be able to pull agro and it normally takes all my back dps skills to either nearly kill or KILL the mob  to remove the agro.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would love to know how it works ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what i can tell..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GROUP heals = TOP taunt</DIV> <DIV>Heals / buffs = 2nd best taunt</DIV> <DIV>Backstabbing damage (rangers / assasains) = 3rd best taunt (tho once ranger gets agro he doesnt lose it)</DIV> <DIV>Nukers nukes = 4th best taunt</DIV> <DIV>Warrior taunts = 5th best taunt..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Warrior taunts need to be better.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i find in groups now i get tank to pull get a couple of back shots in b4 i end up tanking rest of fight.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Calis</DIV>

[Cex]

<DIV>The answer is not upping war taunt...That removes all strategy from a fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Learn to control your aggro. [period]</DIV>

[Fizztast]

I don't know the high game in EQ2. What I do know is how a ranger played in EQ1. I started by always getting aggro, constantly. Then I started to realize I was an embarassment by doing that. So I found out a ranger's job was to NOT GET AGGRO (except in select situations). You are given abilities to lose aggro, use them. Use offensive skills wisely and don't worry about dealing the most damage. Worry about dealing the right damage for the situation. The best rangers in EQ1 were the ones who understood this. There were plenty of 65 rangers that never got it and I avoided them like the plague. They were group death waiting in the wings.

[Neec]

<DIV>well i find im better kitted out than most tanks i have met my lev and have higher AC's and defences (magic) and often im asked to tank to make it easier on the healers.. with survival instincts, hunter instincts etc we can tank pretty good and i think we will end up being tanks a lot.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stalk and shadowfalme can be used without stunning face to face with mob 2  at adept 1 shadowflame deas about 150 damage on average a hit which is nice we get a lot of melee skills  and defensive skills ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i lower my damage output to let tank keep agro the mages in group usually take the agro and die so its better for me to hold the agro with lots of damage buffed i have over 1100 ac and my mdef stats are all around 300... I find that on yellow ^^ mobs using my buffs with 115 agility i evade a lot of hits and resist most spells.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I  just think we make very good backup tanks high end i dont think we will be anywhere near as good tanks as propper tanks but will be able to hold our own..  just  at lowish levels 20-30 we will end up tanking lots.. </DIV>

[Truearch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neecha wrote:<BR> <DIV>well i find im better kitted out than most tanks i have met my lev and have higher AC's and defences (magic) and often im asked to tank to make it easier on the healers.. with survival instincts, hunter instincts etc we can tank pretty good and i think we will end up being tanks a lot.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stalk and shadowfalme can be used without stunning face to face with mob 2  at adept 1 shadowflame deas about 150 damage on average a hit which is nice we get a lot of melee skills  and defensive skills ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i lower my damage output to let tank keep agro the mages in group usually take the agro and die so its better for me to hold the agro with lots of damage buffed i have over 1100 ac and my mdef stats are all around 300... I find that on yellow ^^ mobs using my buffs with 115 agility i evade a lot of hits and resist most spells.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I  just think we make very good backup tanks high end i dont think we will be anywhere near as good tanks as propper tanks but will be able to hold our own..  just  at lowish levels 20-30 we will end up tanking lots.. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Cexia and Fizztastic verry good posts and u guys got the point...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cali on the other hand most be smokeing some serious bad weed... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Ether the tanks ure lvl = 4-5 lvls below u or they r soo gimped they still wear their noob gear from the noob isle.</P> <P>On my server ( Blackburrow ) i have NEVER meet a tank that has less ac /hp than me in the area 2-3 +/- lvls to me.</P> <P>I usually have a set group where the tank is 1-2lvls lower than me , and when hes not lazy or tired i CAN NOT steal aggro from him no matter how hard i try. He also have about 100-200more ac 3-400more hp than me 2 lvls below me. ( At lvl 23 i have 910hp and 820 ac unbuffed and all resists over 100 besides mental thats 90ish cold reists over 200 )</P> <P>Our gear is almost the same. We bothe have our 5 first pieces of the quest gear and other slots is mainly from Stormhold , The thundering steppes and Crypt of betrayal.</P> <P>You sir are soo full of BS ! Take ure lies somewhere else RANGERS SHOULD NOT TANK. LEARN youre CLASS and youre PLACE in the group, or stick to soloing where when u screw up it wont penalize anyone else than youreself.</P>

[TerriBlades]

<DIV>Well I was working with a group last night in Stormhold, all of us 19 or 20 and we were doing cavaliers. Orange (+?) conned to me at 19, and although not a Ranger at the time, I wasnt far off with 5% or so to go. The tank did his job, he held arrgo on three of the 4 cavs that we decided to play with last night, however there was that one cav that didnt seem to like the DPS I was laying on him, might have had something to do with the fact that I was out of power, and perhaps even a slight blessing. I was still at full health, the cav nearly dead, and everyone running low on power, the healer included, but even then, I didnt hold aggro for very long..  Enough for the healer to get back enough power for a heal on the tank, but he narrowly escaped that battle with his life, and at one point was unconscious. Look at it this way, if you were going after a named and his croneys, what would you kill first? The hardest hitting thing? usually.. get him out of the way, and the rest is cake. So why wouldnt an NPC want to do the same thing? The simple thing to do is mind your aggro by not maxing your DPS. Everything else is just showing off if you ask me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nesse</DIV> <DIV>20 Ranger, Dark Elf</DIV> <DIV>Oasis</DIV>

[bli]

<DIV>The bottom line as far as Rangers tanking goes, is this- </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We're in the group for DPS.  We don't have Taunt, we don't have Mez, we don't have debuffs or heals.  Any time we're in a group, we're in it to do damage.  That said, 70% of our attacks are other positional (flanking / behind) Stealth, or both.  If you have aggro, you Cannot reliably carry off our high damage attacks.  Period.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Khalysta has stated, and I agree, that the "big bang" attacks with the long delay are NOT our bread and butter -- that Impale and Pierce for 40 - 75 hp's each every 10 seconds instead of 200hp's every 30 - 60, is what gives us the high DPS.  She's right.  That doesn't mean that the additional 200hp's can't save your tanks **ZOMG**.  However, if you're the tank, there's no WAY you can land a flanking stealth attack in a group setting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, by allowing yourself to take aggro you're depriving your group of their major melee DPS player.  Essentially, if you take aggro consistently and find yourself tanking for half the fight or more, you're not managing yourself well enough, and are therefore not playing your class well.  Remember, it's not JUST about dealing big damage all the time, sometimes it's about being able to lay down 500hp's worth of Hurt in 4 seconds because your healer is OOM and your tank is about to die -- you can't do that from The Front of the mob. </DIV>

[Squidwalk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deis of Destiny wrote:<BR> <DIV>Using Evade and Stalk I can usually shake off most agro when there is a decent tank taunting, but there have been a number of times that my damage has outdone a lesser tanks taunting abilities. By using Survival Instincts I can avoid any bad consequences that may happen though.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Yea same here. Not ranger  yet thought, but I have taken the agro from the tank several times. If evade didnt do it with tank taunting, then try stalk, it drops your agro more then evade does. just slow.</FONT></DIV>

[ArivenGemini]

<blockquote><hr>Neecha wrote:<DIV>As a ranger i ALWAYS end up with Agro unless i dont attack until he mob is half dead..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>from nearly every TAUNTING tank i have grouped with (some very good) i always end up taking agro after 2 or 3 hits (EVEN using bow and backshot etc) </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>So i can take agro from a tank EASY..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>MAGES... when they pull agro (usually cuz they not assisting ) it normaly takes 2-3 hits t opull agro back..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Clerics on the other hand TANKS dont seem to be able to pull agro and it normally takes all my back dps skills to either nearly kill or KILL the mob to remove the agro.. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I would love to know how it works ..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>From what i can tell..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>GROUP heals = TOP taunt</DIV><DIV>Heals / buffs = 2nd best taunt</DIV><DIV>Backstabbing damage (rangers / assasains) = 3rd best taunt (tho once ranger gets agro he doesnt lose it)</DIV><DIV>Nukers nukes = 4th best taunt</DIV><DIV>Warrior taunts = 5th best taunt..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Warrior taunts need to be better.. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>i find in groups now i get tank to pull get a couple of back shots in b4 i end up tanking rest of fight.. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>... </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Calis</DIV><hr></blockquote>If you are in an area safe enough for the tank to do it, he can "hold the line" if he has that skill.. it works great for pulling agro back off... when in combo with other agro pulling skills. also doing the group short term buffs can help raise the tanks agro level... It is a constant discussion Squid and I are having.. he like to pull the mob due to his stealth attacks, but then I have to pull the mob off him after he gets it to our location... thats why I ended up getting a bow and a stack of arrows.. just to pull agro at range without him having to stealth in.Now I am working at being able to position the mob in the right location to let him get his side or rear position up with a minimal amount of time..which will be more and more important the higher up we get in Mobs we take.

[Robaki]

Agro is way to easy to get off poorly equipped tanks. At lvl 22 if the tanks has crappy equipment and is the same lvl then I pull agro and he can't get it back. Now if the tank is very well equipped and or a few levels higher, I go all out and don't have to worry about a thing.It just depends on the warrior. if your the same lvl and he has atleast adept taunts you'll probably be fine, but chances are in an equal lvl group your going to be holding back dmg to avoid agro. But I find that with a bard and 140ish agility that equal lvl mobs can't really hit me, it hurts when they do, but it's not as often as the warrior it seems. When do we get our next agro dump? I'm hoping before 25-30 at the latest, because evade doesn't work, and stalk doesn't seem to make much of a difference.

[RangerManT]

<DIV>I deal out sick damage and rarely pull agro off the tank I normaly group with...and if I start he just taunts more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, if your standing back lobbing arrows, you're not playing a very good Ranger.  Ranging is what playing a Ranger is all about...find the sweet spot and use it.</DIV>