50 dirge

[Lubo]

<DIV>Lvl 50 High end raidign dirge here, HIya Legende its Zoloz :smileyvery-happy: long time no see.  We are a top end guild , weve killed Darathar and completed the prismatic weapon quest. I think weve killed every x4 in game and you know what i do on every single raid ?? I buff my group with my weak [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] lvl 50 buffs, cast Claras on mob and then do my piddly [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] DPS on it and hope to god someone dies so i get to run over and rez them, cause we have the best in battle  rez in game..... i guess thats somthing. The differnce between dirge and troub is actually pretty differnt at raidign lvl. Troubs can stack a few differnt stat buffs and got a decetn AC buff, but still nothing great. I think dirges are suppose to be the good debuffers but our debuffs suck. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This post was suppose to go intot eh soul of the bard thread </DIV><p>Message Edited by Lubony on <span class=date_text>03-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:48 AM</span>

[Nobol]

I have been saying that for ever bro, and they just one star me, like I know nothing.It's ok let them think what they will, it hits them in the face if they make it to level 50.

[Kitsune-ud]

I don't know about you guys, but I regularly do 160-220 dps depending on how often I use my combat arts during raids. What kind of weapons are you using?

[Tekkor]

Level 43 Dirge here and I am seeing what you are saying a bit at my level. However...in a group situation if you play your Dirge as you are supposed to you can still do good DPS and add to a group.Im speaking of a standard group situation here and not raiding as you mentioned though..so I realize some differences are in order. But the other day I was in the following group:SKTemplarAssassinWizardWardenDirge (me)The Wizard guy was running one of the combat damage log programs and posting the dmage in group chat for a good while. In this group of course the Assassin did more damage then everyone every single round unless he took the round off. The damage typically looked something like this after a group of 2 fight or so:Assassin: 8210Wizard: 6230Dirge: 5480SK: 3305Warden: 3000Templar: 2485Typically I was always able to stay within a pretty close range of the Wizard. Now my equipment is pretty good overall. Every ability is Adept 1. Im not sure if he maybe wasnt upgraded good and should have been doing more...perhaps. I didnt ask him. On a couple fights I actually beat him but I suspect those were fights where I got a extra Lanets off and maybe he had a fizzle or two. When I beat him it was like by 200 or something.Claras is a pretty powerful debuff as well. Using that and Tarvens and a few of the other small ones add up. I can see where we need some improvement perhaps but at my level I NEVER have a problem getting a group. Many times groups will take me over a better damage dealing scout because they want the buffs, debuffs and all.Also...it shocks me how many Dirges totally dismiss our Fear as being useless. I cant count how many times I have saved group members [Removed for Content] with this song. We get a add hitting on the healer or something and I turn around and fear it off them and we go on to take everything out or get away without anyone dying. Our fear song is VERY useful if you know how to use it.People I group with know I have it and they realize when I use it if it is a bad situation I may need to chain fear the add so they can keep at what they are killing. Dozens upon dozens of times this has saved people.Anyway...Im sure I will see more of what you are talking about when I start raiding which I havent done yet.<p>Message Edited by Tekkor on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:51 AM</span>

[Laureous]

I am level 50 as well, and frankly all of the tanks in my guild are fighting over me to be in their group. Yes, our dps is just slightly higher than a declawed cat trying to get out of a wet paper bag, but with the combination of buffs, I always max out our main tanks AC. (Discordant Boon alone at Adept 3 gives +9 to defense and a number of offensive skills). Stated by our main tank (50 Guardian) that when I am in group with him, blues and even con mob do not concern him, they rarely even touch him. I am not sure what game you are playing, but our buffs are decent, but overall there are still ALOT of issues with upgrading from Adept 1 to any higher level of songs/buffs. As above, I had Discordant Boon at Adept 1 it had only +8 to defense and offensive skills (included 11 INT and STR) which I upgraded to Adept3, I got a big +1 to that...I was kinda shocked at first, then resigned to the fact that there HAS to be something done to fix the discrepancy.The only real upgrade I have seen was taking Clara’s from Adept 1 to Master 1, which really only added 300 to the AC debuff. Brias was a waste upgrading to Adept 3...a perfectly good ruby going to waste imho.As was stated in other posts, alot of our lines of spells/songs are simply ineffectual. I would rather see us lose all those useless spells (AEs that are a joke to cast because of the resists and low damage, possibly replacing these with upgrades to Ludias) across the board debuffs given to us for all resists (that is, if resists are working as intended), real upgrades to Adept 3 and higher, and re-evaluation of our dps.Tekkor, I totally agree with you about our Fear, it is WAY underrated. My normal group: 50 guardian, 50 defiler, 48 warlock and myself take down Tundra Jack and Iceburg. Guardian sits at wall, I run out and aggro and pull back. Just as both TJ and Iceburg hit the tank, I throw fear on TJ and runs around with his head cut off, while we work on Iceburg. I have it at Adept 1, so by the time it wears off and runs back to the group, I already have it refreshed and fearing him again. Wash rinse repeat til dead.I am always in the main tank group on raids, our buffs bring a good amount of defensive skills to the group, where being on rez duty is switched off between lowbie members of our guild, or wizards/warlocks, depending on what mobs we are fighting. There is only real one mob that I am just a buff bot, which is the Unnatural, since he AEs the main aggro group and for me to be in melee range is just a waste of power of the healers in group.I took at level 40 Selos Cessitation, which is a decent power draining ability, attack speed debuff and snare. Stacked with other classes it can bring mobs to oop fairly quickly.I still state that we are a utility class, jack-of-all trades and master of none, not dps...We makes everyone else look great at the cost of speciality. We are far from broken, but we do have issues which can be fixed with a good amount of tweaking.

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Kitsune-udon wrote:I don't know about you guys, but I regularly do 160-220 dps depending on how often I use my combat arts during raids. What kind of weapons are you using?<hr></blockquote>You obvously don't know what the swiftblade of the scale is do you?Haha 220dps on a raid mob my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], a wizard can't even do that, get real.Sigh yes the one sparkly thing we have is boon, I hate to break it to you, a lvl 44 troub can push skills higher than 9 sigh, so once again you fail.We need work, its not coming, we have one buff line and one debuff line that is worth anthing, and the cursed rez.I hate being the rez [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].<p>Message Edited by Nobolis on <span class=date_text>03-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 AM</span>

[Kitsune-ud]

Riana's and Discordant Boon are both worth using depending on the situation, although I generally have Discordant up because I don't need any more haste. Our slow is an excellent backup slow when the shamans cant gets theirs up, or when it drops and they need to recast. Clara's, of course is our bread and butter with the str/agi debuff being worthless to us. I'd rather give that one to the troubs and get some sort of offensive skills debuff, which would more better suit us.My only problem with dirges past that one debuff is that our ower regen is so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty. If troubs get health and power regen, it would be nice if we could have a slightly stronger line.No matter what our problems are, the fighter damage tables are still [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed up and no matter what spells we use a fighter will almost always have better dps. My guilds bruiser and beserker regularily do over 220 dps.And to the person who mentioned the swiftblade: Yes, I have it. I actually preferrered it with the +25 agi, rather then the +10 agi +2 slashing they put on it, with the increased strength as they have now. Again, SOE caters to the fighters, turning what could've been a half-decent scout weapon into a fighter weapon.

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Kitsune-udon wrote:Riana's and Discordant Boon are both worth using depending on the situation, although I generally have Discordant up because I don't need any more haste. Our slow is an excellent backup slow when the shamans cant gets theirs up, or when it drops and they need to recast. Clara's, of course is our bread and butter with the str/agi debuff being worthless to us. I'd rather give that one to the troubs and get some sort of offensive skills debuff, which would more better suit us.My only problem with dirges past that one debuff is that our ower regen is so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty. If troubs get health and power regen, it would be nice if we could have a slightly stronger line.No matter what our problems are, the fighter damage tables are still [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed up and no matter what spells we use a fighter will almost always have better dps. My guilds bruiser and beserker regularily do over 220 dps.And to the person who mentioned the swiftblade: Yes, I have it. I actually preferrered it with the +25 agi, rather then the +10 agi +2 slashing they put on it, with the increased strength as they have now. Again, SOE caters to the fighters, turning what could've been a half-decent scout weapon into a fighter weapon.<hr></blockquote>Sigh I still don't believe your 220dps even with the crapblade, keep reaching.

[SalusVict]

Whatever, Noblis.

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>SalusVictus wrote:Whatever, Noblis. <hr></blockquote>Yeah and your an expect, be careful RV can be dangerous haha.http://soh.eq2guilds.org/roster.vm

[Jzi]

<P>aww don't get at noblis, he's a good dirge, he whines so much it makes eveyone depressed. It is after all his job, calling, art etc <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Jziad wrote:<P>aww don't get at noblis, he's a good dirge, he whines so much it makes eveyone depressed. It is after all his job, calling, art etc <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <hr></blockquote>I'm not whinning, if I was whinning I would say, gimme this, wah wah wah, sniff snob sniff. However we need fixes and you know it.

[SalusVict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nobolis wrote:<BR><BR>Yeah and your an expect, be careful RV can be dangerous haha.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm an expect? What?

[Priestbane]

Typo.  He meant "expert".

[Lubo]

Hmm, id say if your guild want syou in main group they need to look into the troubs buff , troubs buff brign much more to mian group as we fond out during our raids. They can up def alot higher than we can with our 1 song and they get 3 stat songs that all stack, we dotn even get 2 unles syou count stackign harls and boon, which i dont since they do 2 differnt things. Ive foudn my place as a dirge in the damage group, usualyl half scouts and half warlocks/waizards, the scouts get good from my master haste and harls and everyoen gains form my brias so they can nuke and cast arts more. We have a secodnary dirge who is in what i liek to clal the shortbus group. ITs usually jsut extra people who are perforimuing rando tasks, liek a necro for roding and a secodn dirge keeping al his debuffs up.  Im beggingin to think were meant to have some kind of instrumental enhancement on our songs. Maybe that will be somthign they will add in. I dont even care much abotu my melee DPS, i know were not suppose to be the highest yet we can get soem decetn DPS if we spam the crap outta our skills and get everylast thign in we can, but then if you dont have much regen youll probly not be doing much on next mob while you regen. I think they way it was intended was troubs were buffers we were debuffers, but our debuffs fall shrot form what troubs can do with there buffs.

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Godstalk wrote:Typo.  He meant "expert". <hr></blockquote>I was tired, spent a long day camping the 5 instances heh, for the 11ty billionth time.

[scorn]

<P><FONT color=#ffffff>Ack! Someone help me! </FONT></P> <P>  As an end-game Inquisitor I felt the same way alot of you guys do.  So I decided, roll and alt and Dirge seemed like a good choice due to lack of people playing them and I heard they are "uber" debuffers.  Now I'm seeing alot of mixed reviews from the top-enders.  Given a choice, what class would you pick? Bruiser pops into my mind -- but I heard they're getting nerfed soon.</P>

[Ruebb]

This is going a bit OT, but in reply to Scornny: To be honest, I would pick a class that I would like to play. Not a class that *could* be good at some stage of it's career, or because of some professed ability. I'm still low level (2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, granted... But the class must first be severely abused before I would decide to give up on it, and even then I'll still very likely (try to) level it to max. I love my Dirge almost to death. I have never played a bard-type class in any of my previous MMOG's. And now I'm wondering what I missed out on. But remember also that the game is still in it's early stages. Apart from the roles each archetype has, nothing is very certain. For example: what will happen when the level cap is raised. Will there be new class choices to be made at a certain level? In which direction will those new sub classes go? Spells, abilities, etc, etc... I chose the bard class because I like its general playing style, versatility, utility (with/without groups) and the place it has in group combat. And this is not something I see in other (sub) classes. Bruiser is also a lot of fun. But with it's place as MA during raids, it's just not a class for me. Just decide for yourselve what kind of playing style you would most like, and find to class that fullfills that. And no matter what happens to that class (unless severely altered or something like that), have fun with it. Otherwise you stand a very big chance that you'll always be on the re-rolling blues (or the "flavour of the month" bandwagon) until you're sick of it... <div></div>

[domoresayless]

The original poster mentioned that we have the best battle rez in the game...By all I've read isn't it an out of combat rez similar to the first one priests get?could somone explain this?

[Mase]

Its just a direct combat restrictive, as long as your not swinging yoru blades you can rez someone. And its dam dandy if only it didn't take [Removed for Content] forever to level up ministration, Dirges should of gotten some kind of heal along the way so we have a way to level ministration before we get to lvl 44 and our ministration starts at 94. Of course the same thing with Wail of Woe and subjagation. Honestly I think the person behind dirges had their head stuck up their hat.

[domoresayless]

Ok, so it works in combat as long as you're not in combat...(sorry to hijack the thread just interested)what constitutes it as the best battle rez tho? how is it better than priests?

[Laureous]

Brings back someone at 40% health and power....after the fizzle fest. ; ) <div></div>

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Laureous wrote:Brings back someone at 40% health and power....after the fizzle fest. ; ) <div></div><hr></blockquote>Its also great for going /ld and rezzing raid member, while they sit and fight while you twiddle your fingers.

[MiscreantPy]

<DIV>lv 50 dirge in a rading guild we've killed darathar and everything else pretty much</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I find for dirges to hit any kind of decent dps they need an enc we can do good dps if we have mana, but at oom I do about 120 dps and regen enough per 10 sec to run an ho with tarvens and quick strike to complete. I have almost all master loot armor, a lunar ornate spear and a viscious sai that proc a hell of a lot 12% on each for 200-300 dmg. So with mana I can hit major dps in bursts but it evens out to about 175 dps with clarity on me. Also I have master riana 31% haste. I havent parsed in a while though. So I probably do more now than these stats. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I run claras, boon, harls and daros during raids I think thats pretty much standard for all Dirges but I may be wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All in all I think our abilities use far to much mana to their dmg output.</DIV>

[SalusVict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nobolis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Godstalk wrote:<BR>Typo.  He meant "expert". <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I was tired, spent a long day camping the 5 instances heh, for the 11ty billionth time.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Oh! I'm an "expert," I see. Your devestating support for the conclusion that he's lying is that <U>I</U> am low level. It makes sense, now. I'll go humbly crawl in my hole, and leave you to ridicule others at your leisure.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I did think maybe we could ask him what the class mix of his raid group is, what HOs they choose, and what pattern of buffs they use ... that maybe they've discovered something you haven't ... but your insight has filled me, and I realize now I'm a helpless noob, and he was just a boasting liar.</DIV>

[Nadain]

<P>Nobolis wrote:</P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SalusVictus wrote:<BR>Whatever, Noblis. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><BR><BR>Yeah and your an expect, be careful RV can be dangerous haha.<BR></P> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>I just cant get over all the folks that think the ground trembles when they walk. That the sun begs there leave to rise in the morning LOL. Check every class board in here friend. Every one of them have at least one guy thats convinced that there toon is the most gimped in the game. "I am 50th level and my DPS is only 10 points<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />". You keep believing that and I will keep ripping [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] LOL.</FONT></DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>I just cant get over all the folks that think the ground trembles when they walk. That the sun begs there leave to rise in the morning LOL. Check every class board in </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>here friend. Every one of them have at least one guy thats convinced that there toon is the most gimped in the game. "I am 50th level and my DPS is only 10 points:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>(". You keep believing that and I will keep ripping [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] LOL.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>The dirge, coercer, ranger and shadowknight forums, however, seem to be the only ones with no high end (40+) players that are happy with their class</FONT></DIV>

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Orki who Posts wrote:<DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>I just cant get over all the folks that think the ground trembles when they walk. That the sun begs there leave to rise in the morning LOL. Check every class board in </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>here friend. Every one of them have at least one guy thats convinced that there toon is the most gimped in the game. "I am 50th level and my DPS is only 10 points:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>>(". You keep believing that and I will keep ripping [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] LOL.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>The dirge, coercer, ranger and shadowknight forums, however, seem to be the only ones with no high end (40+) players that are happy with their class</FONT></DIV> <hr></blockquote>Thank you for your post, I'm glad someone else realises the high end issue, let the 40< crowd love it up.

[Mase]

<P>You can't be more right Orki, now I like the idea of the dirge class and its potential but in actual use sometimes I just wanna quit roll into an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] or warlock and bring something a little more.</P> <P>Our procs, Well idk I have gone entire duration of the buffs and not had the proc go off for any group members at all, no not a wild exageration , idk if there is a bug with having to many proc spell buffs going. But basically this is just another of our trash abilities. We have so many of them, proc line eats up conc, does nothing,  the stealth line while it does have an occasional use I have found, its basically trash too. </P> <P>Lithe Disbelief man I love this ability but... there is no arcane resistance added like it says in the description and when rush of battle goes off it eats almost 100pwr, [Removed for Content] I have lost so much pwr from this proc going off 3 4 times in a row. OUCH</P> <P>sigh the list goes on and on, its really not just dirges, its the bard class imo, with the nerf to trob's stacking we are one sad class, yes of course we do bring some things to the group but, it just doesn't seem up to par with what others bring. Basically Boon and Clara's and sadly lvl 20 lanets is our best and WoW is nice but long cast time , recover and pwr cost for piddly dmg and interupt. </P> <P>For the time being all I can do is play my dirge weaponsmith (pfft what double whammy choices i made) and hope that balancing is on the horizon and we see the improvements and fixes we need.</P>

[SalusVict]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Orki who Posts wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>The dirge, coercer, ranger and shadowknight forums, however, seem to be the only ones with no high end (40+) players that are happy with their class</FONT></DIV> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Are you ignoring the posts (in this thread) from Tekkor, Laureous, and Kitsune-udon? Or are you saying the other classes have level 40+ people bouncing-off-the-walls, jumping for joy happy in their posts? Those three posters seemed to feel like they get by (and they don't know why you're complaining so hard).</DIV>