A Simple Request - Casting Already Maintained Spells and Concentration

[Beldrin]

<DIV>When re-casting a spell that you already maintain should not result in a concentration check. I have to say this is the most annoying part of playing a bard. I don't like to be annoyed and we all hate it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Eg. When I currently have my haste song playing, and my concentration is full, I should no longer receive the message "Not Enough Concentration" when I try to cast my haste spell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this is by design, then we should discuss the balance implications, however, at prima facia, this is an error that needs to be corrected.</DIV>

[Skurry]

<DIV>Oddly enough, sometimes it works just like you describe it. I don't have figured out yet when it works and when it says "not enough concentration"... Sometimes I think it's "just when the song is about to end", but then I can play Bria's and Rousing Tune over and over ticking my groupmates off. </DIV> <DIV>/shrug</DIV>

[Cowsw]

I've actually submitted this as a bug it's so annoying. Basically, it doesn't check for a spell already running in your concentration and just checks for empty slots. This means if you're running 4 slots and try and refresh a 2 slot spell it WILL NOT refresh and instead gives you a "not enough concentration" error, whereas a 1 slot spell would refresh (probably where the above poster said it sometimes works). This is not only consistant, but is a verified fact that it screws up every single time. I cannot think of a reason this could be exploited so I doubt it's intentional.If there is a Bard/Dirge/Troub correspondant I would suggest taking this up as an issue to be fixed, it can't be all that big of a fix to check for an already running spell =P

[Skurry]

<DIV>Thanks for the clarification <SPAN>Cowswim</SPAN>, that's why it seems to work sometimes.</DIV>

[Skurry]

<DIV>Oh, and a possible "exploit" could be song spamming to gain skill increases fast.</DIV> <DIV>Could be that we end up having to wait for a song to end before we can sing it again. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Though I doubt that this is considered an "exploit", but you never know.</DIV>

[Cowsw]

I'm pretty sure they can code a feasible solution where that doesn't happen. Plus, you can already refresh songs as long as you have an extra slot, I'd just like to be able to refresh songs without needing and extra slot, it just doesn't make sense.

[Orgingrind]

<DIV>This annoys me at times, having to drop the song from playlist to recast it.  I think every class is the same though in this situation, as a mage class having 5 conc slots full, trying to rebuff one of them will result in the same response of not enough concentration available.  I think it would be cool if they would impliment a feature that would allow for you to recast an existing spell/song which you are already playing, this being the reasoning.  Discordant Boon uses 2 conc slots, to recast you need 2 conc slots available, yet when all is said and done it is only 2 conc slots used.  2 + 2 = 2?  I understand why it works like this, however it would be cool for the programming code to recognize that you are just recasting an existing conc slot.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That said, this is a universal annoyance, and it isn't just dirges.  Until they decide to fix this (highly doubt it) we just have to keep dropping our song and rebuffing that way.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a side note, do many other classes have spells which require two conc slots?  or just bards?  Playing a wizard I've never seen a 2 conc slot spell, seems pretty silly if bards are the only ones with 2 conc slot spells/songs, and not only one, but multiple.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[gd11]

think the brigands group stealth takes two as well.I agree that this is truely annoying. What's worse is at about 3-5 seconds after spell expires does it remove itself from maintained window in order to recast. I frequently try leave 1 concentration slot for clara's, so I only have a problem in the middle of a fight or when recasting lucky break.

[Beldrin]

<DIV>While it's true for all classes, not all classes have to recast their ALL of their group buffs every 3-10 minutes. I know some of them have short duration buffs, but all of our buffs are short duration, so it's more annoying to us :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as an exploit.. the argument is moot, if I have only 1 spell cast, I can recast it over and over right now .. so there must be checks in place to guarantee non-exploit of this. The concentration check does nothing to prevent spamming.. all it does is force us to drop a spell before recasting it again.</DIV>

[Ruebb]

Great news in the new test server patch notes:- You can now recast/refresh a spell that uses concentration without needing to cancel it first.

[ITZBITZ]

Indeed!

[Nobol]

So they changed it finally, woot!

[Skurry]

Yep, they fixed it in the last update. Essentially, when you try to cast a "running" song, it is cancelled, and you can then cast it again. Requires two clicks, but I think that's good enough. It's even better, as it let's you switch between songs easier. Kudos to SOE!

[DOLPHY]

<P>This is not good enough.  This is total Crap.  Having my song cancel when all I want to do is Refresh it is BS.  Songs should not toggle off with a recast attempt.  It is a pain in the buns.  If I cast a song that is already running please refresh it, do not cancel it.  </P> <P> </P>

[SalusVict]

<P>The biggest problem with this is the 1-second "recycle" time. Double-clicking the icon to cancel/buffer-the-recast doesn't seem to be working reliably.</P> <P>Base poster: be careful what you wish for. Sony seems to like to "improve" on clean, sensible ideas.</P>

[Priestbane]

Salus, that's really my only problem with it.  People have alternately been asking for over-casting or click-cancel (a-la EQ1) functionality, and there was not really a consensus.  If they got rid of the silly refresh (so we could double click), then this would mostly address both.  Being able to single-click cancel a concentration spell (given the amount we bards have) is really a godsend if you need to swap fast.

[Ruebb]

Yes, I like it this way. Apart from the refresh timer, but I can live with that. It makes it a lot easier for me to replace a (de-)buff with another one. This is immensely more usefull in a group/raid situation where I don't have to look up the buff in my maintained window, right click it and then select cancel. That takes a lot more time and is prone to errors due to lag. This won't work if you click on a (de-)buff only to have it refresh. IMO it is the best of both worlds... <div></div>

[Kitsune-ud]

<div></div>I dont care if they have to revert to the old system or some up with something new, my group stats buff should NEVER come down during a raid.  As it was before I could refresh several buffs while dropping haste or skills buff (which was no big deal) because of them taking 2 conc.   Really, I rather have the old system as it was just as easy for me to cancel then as it is now. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kitsune-udon on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[Beldrin]

<DIV>I appreciate the effort of the designers and developers instituting this change, I really do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, I'd like to say that while it sounds good on paper it's kind of clumsy. Dropping buffs to recast them is just not good enough. It was a good effort and duly noted.. But you need to make spells work the way that we envision them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The song is running low.</DIV> <DIV>We recast the song</DIV> <DIV>The song is replenished, without interruption.</DIV> <DIV>Concentration consumption is unchanged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any alternative is really unacceptable. I like this better than I used to, but as you can see by the posts.. we're still not happy.</DIV>

[Skurry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kitsune-udon wrote:<BR> I dont care if they have to revert to the old system or some up with something new, my group stats buff should NEVER come down during a raid.  As it was before I could refresh several buffs while dropping haste or skills buff (which was no big deal) because of them taking 2 conc.   Really, I rather have the old system as it was just as easy for me to cancel then as it is now.<BR><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Kitsune-udon on <SPAN class=date_text>03-24-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:28 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How did you cancel them in the old system? Look through a gazillion icons until you find the song, right click and select cancel? That's "just as easy" as it is now? :smileysurprised:

[Chalkdust1011]

<P>A gazillion icons? wow, do you have infinite concentration slots or something? And if you don't know your spell icons by now.. well..<BR><BR>Anyway, It's a major pain now, as if I haven't already expressed my opinion on this enough.<BR>You were previously able to refresh songs, now you cannot.<BR>The update notes lead you to believe you could now refresh songs without having to cancel.<BR>Which is very much incorrect, and is even worse now as you hafta drop a song mid-fight to refresh it, and in doing so it can be very detrimental to you and your group.</P> <P>If you haven't experienced this lovely inconvenience, you soon will.</P> <P>As it is now, it may be convenient for some, but is very inconvenient for others. And it was not changed as indicated in the patch notes.. if it were, I think everyone would be better off.. having to right-click off a song if you wish to change what you have up would not have detrimental effects on your group as you are dropping that song anyway to replace it. Having to drop a song to refresh it, however, does.</P> <P>~Spacek<BR>42 Dirge of Kithicor</P> <P> </P>

[Skurry]

<P>There are spell effects that don't require concentration slots. And they show up in that little window, too. And the ordering is random.</P> <P>And there are a lot of players which like to avoid using the mouse as much as possible. I like to be in control and use hotkeys as often as possible. I tried to write macros, so I can cancel spells using the keyboard (for my tank to get rid of the stance that immobilizes you as quickly as possible). I failed miserably. The new system is really what I was looking.</P> <P>Ok, the recast timer is a bit of a pain here. Is it really crucial at higher levels when a song is down for a second? Like a critical hit for the tank or something? I'm only 28 now, so I could well be facing that problem in the future, like you said.</P>

[Demothis]

<P>The new system would be fine if it worked as it was intented stated my moorguard on the update post. Its supose to refresh it if it is in effect. Canceling in the old metod was easy though, at mak you would only have about 8 icons to look at in the maintained window. max 5 for concentraition, pathfinding, self buff (the other 1 wasn't up long enough to really matter) Lannets, snare, and 2 of the combat arts. since the buffs are always group seing the purple ones are easy.</P> <P>Plus if its a real issue, it could easily be set up so you can turn the toggle of and on in the user options if they would get it fixed.</P>

[Chalkdust1011]

<P><EM>Is it really crucial at higher levels when a song is down for a second?</EM></P> <P>Yes, I've been spending most of my time duoing with a warden lately, with me tanking. Up against two lvl 40^^ mobs the other night.. In the process of draining their power warden ran outta power healing me, but once they were both outta power, it was no problem.. they barely hit me and my lifetaps were keeping my health up from when they did.. I notice Lucky Break starting to fade as both mobs are almost dead.. If I would've been able to refresh it everything would have gone smoothly.. once it dropped, within 3 seconds I was in the red and had to evac or risk certain death attempting to rebuff and lifetap my health back up..</P> <P>Similar situations occur regularly, usually I cast Lucky Break at the start of all fights to avoid this, but sometimes we get trained, or adds that make fighting last longer than 10 minutes.</P> <P>I understand both aspects of those who want it different ways.. A good solution I think would be to add a /cancelbuff <buff> command that could be added to macros.. and of course actually make the change indicated by the patch notes so that buffs could actually be refreshed.. instead of just nerfing the way we used to do it.</P> <P>~Spacek<BR>42 Dirge of Kithicor</P> <P> </P>

[Meadso]

I prefer it as it is to the old way. If I want to cycle through my buffs/debuffs to grab aggro from someone in emergencies this is so much better than the manual right click method. Of course it is a double edged sword, but it's one I am happy to weild.

[Priestbane]

They're takin it away though, but making our buffs permanent until canceled.  While I approve of the duration change (there's a lot of other stuff I'd rather be doing than constant duration management), I'd like to keep the new toggle capability on them since they are now permanent.

[Chalkdust1011]

They need to just add a /cancelbuff command for people who don't like to right click them off. Toggling takes away our ability to draw agro.

[Goredo]

<DIV>read test center patch notes</DIV>