Ideal troub raid group

[aelder~]

<DIV>I will typically find myself leading group 3 in a raid with classic caster dps composition.  We tend to be high on finger wagglers and thin on scouts so its rare I get a real hybrid group.  Common composition might be:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Conjuror</LI> <LI>Necro</LI> <LI>Warlock</LI> <LI>Wizard</LI> <LI>Fury</LI> <LI>Troubador</LI></UL> <DIV>Necro is often replaced by a repeat of any of the warlock/wizard/conjuror depending on the day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This group is typically composed to make the most of my buffs.  Generally I'd be running Bria's, Aria, dove song (now), Alin's, and Opus.  First one out the window if I want something different (e.g., resists) is typically opus since I am the only beneficiary.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Side question: in casting raid group would I be better off ditching Opus for Daeli's?  I haven't b/c my raid INT is about 600)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that set up, I rarely get buffs that help li'l old me to do more damage personally (i know I am there to help the raid, but lets be selfish for a moment).  And our MT dirge whoops my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in DPS with nearly identical gear.  I am doing all I can personally figure to optimize casting order, gear, procs, etc.... but if I had the chance to be selfish and change the group composition to serve me (indulge me here), what would we ideally want?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suspect a Fury ends up in my group so she can nuke if mages can stay out of trouble.  If I had my d'ruthers, would it be an Inquis with dps buff and divine recovery AA (templars have the latter also)?  I could see jesters on inquis; inquis hits divine recovery; then i think they have a fast cast haste ability and I follow with maestro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What other classes do we pair with in nice ways that could maximize each others buffs and abilities?  What might a different group composition look like if we got the opportunity to be other than mage maximizers?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the indulgence,</DIV> <DIV>Aelder</DIV>

[Rampagious]

<DIV>Templar, Dirge, Troubador, Illusionist, wizard, wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar for c/p/s buff, and their increase change to proc.  Dirge for their proc, CoB, DPS buff, c/p/s buff, and for increase chance to proc. Illusionist for haste, double attack, synergism, and time compression.  And the two wizards for the str/int buff, both their procs, and for having two Fridged Gifts.  I've had a group similar to that before, but instead of the second wizard, I had a conjuror in that place instead - needless to say BEFORE Villucidae I was at a 1767 DPS zonewide in LoA.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rampagious on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:04 PM</span>

[Pogopuschel]

Do you consider this ideal for the Troubadour's group, or the Troubadour?

[Rampagious]

The troubador...thats what this post is about, but it isn't a bad group for the rest of the other people either <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cynnigig]

I really like having an illusionist and an inquisitor in my group. Timing Precision of the Maestro with Momentary Sentiment and the Inquisitor's cast-/recast-time reducer gives the group good damage. Except on long fights I don't run mana regen and can put up another buff, with an illusionist in my group. I like having a conjurer, because of his procs.

[Nainitsuj]

<P>Why do you run haste in a mage group?  Tell the summoners to pull out the mage pets for real dps.</P> <P>I run aria, alin's, bria's then I swap between raxxyl's, RoR, dove song, and the resists as needed.  (More times than not it's aria, alin's, bria's, RoR and dove song)</P>

[Rampagious]

<DIV>Haste to buff yourself!  Duh!</DIV>

[Pik'ee]

<div></div>I often get the following groupBrigandIllusionistWizardWarlockInquisitorTrou bAnd run Alin's, Aria, Bria's, Raxxyl's and Opus.I've been playing about with dropping opus when we have the illu and running my selfbuff (shame on me I know) to see if my increased int will effect overall group dps due to higher procs from PotM. So far it's kinda inconclusive as I don't pay as much attention as I maybe should to parses etc.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pik'ee on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 AM</span>

[Ahtener]

I usually play bria's, alin's, dove, aria and daelis if i'm the only scout in group of mages... daelis is better than opus, because it's both my dps (from +int) and group dsp (from bigger aria proc).Of course, daelis is first to turn off if resists are needed.

[Pik'ee]

<div></div>Ahh, but when you buff up, cast Daeli's first, get your int as high as you can, then cast Aria, and then you can cancel Daeli's and it still procs as though you have the high int. I think, but I'm probably wrong, that the only benefit (other than personal dps) for running Daeli's is to get bigger potm procs..<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pik'ee on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR> <DIV>Haste to buff yourself!  Duh!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ah.. selfish reason to slow down raid dps.  Good idea..</DIV>

[Rampagious]

First of all grats on not seeing sarcasm and being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Secondly, you want to talk about slowing raid dps?  Having a mage group is slowing raid dps - but nice try.

[aelder~]

<P>Well, first up, I started the thread asking for Troubs to think selfishly for once (how often does "utility" or "support" get to be queen for a day?).  Hence the Opus.  But the 5th concentration slot often ends up being "selfish" anyway if you have an unbalanced group.</P> <P>Regarding Daeli's and Aria & PotM proc damage, I had read long ago on bard forums that the bard's INT dictated the proc on our attacks, but that a mage's damage from Dissonant Note was controlled by <EM>their</EM> INT.  Yet if mages check the buff description on themselves its equal to the damage I see on my icon.  Further, casting Daeli's before Aria does raise the damage in the description, which remains fixed in the description even after daeli's is removed.  (And conversely the damage description on Aria icon does not go up if you cast Daeli's <EM>after</EM> Aria).  Has anyone tested to see if this is just a description flub or if its truly stays that high even after the bard's intelligence falls?  If its true, then you would actually want to recast Aria once while PotM was up, under the influence of Illusionist's Mementary Sentiment, and any other short and long term INT buffs + potion you can squeeze together for the 2.79 seconds it takes to cast Aria.  Could even in theory do it once when at your highest possible INT and never strip the buff and have it remain at max?  That seems faulty...</P> <P>As for slowing raid DPS, can you elaborate Ramp on why a mage group harms raid dps?  Warlocks, conjurors, wizards don't bring much to table for people they group with (i think) other than one proc each and frigid gift you mention.  Why shouldn't they be paired with troubs and a healer rahther than dispersed through the raid?</P> <P> </P> <P>Happy hunting,</P> <P>Aelder</P>

[Rampagious]

<DIV>Alot of guilds still think it is a good idea to have a mage group and a scout group when it isn't.  The typical all mages + fury/troub hurts overall dps because that means the other group in your raid has multiple poorly buffed scouts.  Its best to divide the two between the groups so each get sufficient buffs.  We do two tank groups (though one is very DPS orriented) and 2 regular DPS groups.  G1 = Troubador/Conjuror/Inquisitor/Bruiser/Brigand/Illusionist - G2 = Berserker/Templar/Mystic/Dirge/Coercer/Assassin - G3 = Troubador/Wizard/Wizard/Fury/Swash/Necro ---- Agree or disagree with this, I promise you there is not a guild in this game that can match or beat our DPS.  There is a reason why no one else in this game gets 4:32 Matron kills <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Nainitsuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR> First of all grats on not seeing sarcasm and being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Secondly, you want to talk about slowing raid dps?  Having a mage group is slowing raid dps - but nice try.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You apparently can't detect sarcasm either.  Oh well, it's a problem that plagues text.</P> <P>And we can pull off a mage group since there's 3 dirges and 1 troub present on every raid, and more chain than cloth.  All cloth minus the necro/conj (at their request) is in the mage group.  </P> <P>MT is zerker, dirge, fury, mystic, temp, assa/swash (depends who's better)</P> <P>Group 2 is SK, troub, ill, wiz, war, inqu</P> <P>Group 3 is Monk, dirge, def, assas/swash, necro, rng</P> <P>Group 4 is bruiser, dirge, warden, rng, conj, brig</P> <P> </P> <P>So please don't attempt to analize a raid force until you have the complete picture.</P> <P>And I realize the MT group is not at it's best, but I'm not the one who gets to pick the groups.</P><p>Message Edited by Nainitsuj on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[ForgottenFoundling]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR> First of all grats on not seeing sarcasm and being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Secondly, you want to talk about slowing raid dps?  Having a mage group is slowing raid dps - but nice try.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You apparently can't detect sarcasm either.  Oh well, it's a problem that plagues text.</P> <P>And we can pull off a mage group since there's 3 dirges and 1 troub present on every raid, and more chain than cloth.  All cloth minus the necro/conj (at their request) is in the mage group.  </P> <P>MT is zerker, dirge, fury, mystic, temp, assa/swash (depends who's better)</P> <P>Group 2 is SK, troub, ill, wiz, war, inqu</P> <P>Group 3 is Monk, dirge, def, assas/swash, necro, rng</P> <P>Group 4 is bruiser, dirge, warden, rng, conj, brig</P> <P> </P> <P>So please don't attempt to analize a raid force until you have the complete picture.</P> <P>And I realize the MT group is not at it's best, but I'm not the one who gets to pick the groups.</P> <P>Message Edited by Nainitsuj on <SPAN class=date_text>01-19-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:47 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>weird raid group setups - not having the illusionist with the assassin is crazy