worthless charm. Is troub's mez better?

[mausert]

<DIV><FONT size=4>At level 20, I got this long-casting and purported 8-second charm.  I used is 4 times:  it was resisted 3 times, and the one time it worked, it lasted 2-3 second.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>that charm is beyond useless, it's insulting.  Even if is unresistable, at 8 seconds it's still worthless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>My question is, before I waiste anymore time in this char, is the bard mez at 50 working reasonable well? or is it another insult from the devs?</FONT></DIV>

[Epif]

<DIV>well mezz  at lvl 50  with the aa  gives me 33 seconds  but is resisted alot  way i use it  is stun the mob  hit  with our Wisdom debuf then attempt to Mezz. But i find alot about this class A  insult from the devs. I mean i love my troub  but yes we do need help</DIV>

[vladsamier]

<P>Um... What spell quality are you using? My master 1 version of the tier 7 charm rarely ever gets resisted. Try debuffing the mob's mental resist then using the charm to see if that helps it to be not resisted so much.</P> <P>And for the mez.. What spell quality is that? Mine is adept 3 and rarely ever gets outright resisted. You can also debuff its mental resist and it should make the mezzes land more frequently...</P>

[vladsamier]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Egadu wrote:<BR> <DIV>well mezz  at lvl 50  with the aa  gives me 33 seconds  but is resisted alot  way i use it  is stun the mob  hit  with our Wisdom debuf then attempt to Mezz. But i find alot about this class A  insult from the devs. I mean i love my troub  but yes we do need help</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You do realize that the wisdom debuff that we have is a DoT... If you are trying to mez the mob right after using that, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Read the description on mez.. It should say something like "dispells when target takes damage" or something to that effect. The wisdom debuff's mental DoT is causing the damage breaking the mez. Try using the mental debuff/snare (can't remember the exact name =/) then mezzing and don't use Kian's while trying to mez something....

[Jeger_Wulf]

<DIV>> What spell quality are you using? My master 1 version of the tier 7 charm rarely ever gets resisted. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not worth investing in a master at the lower level charms. The charm length is just too short. I find it worthless, but I reserve judgement on the higher charm once I get AAs.</DIV>

[Troubador Vina]

<P>Personally, I love our charm spell.  It doesn't take a conc. slot anymore, and ya it is short but it just has a different use then before.  I like to think of it as a high damage, short duration DoT that has the added effect of taking a mob out of the fight.  Best way to use charm is on a multi mob encounter; charm the weakest mob and send it on the assist target.  When it wares off, it tends to reset agro and usually will go attack a healer so be careful in that respect.  The other time I use it is when an add comes.  Works great to charm and then mez it as soon as it ends.</P> <P>As for resists, make sure your playing your +skills song as it will help with resist rates on yellow and orange mobs.  Also, make sure the quality is Adept 1 at least, if not Adept III.  As said above, save your money till later upgrades.  Lastly, never cast the WIS debuff + DoT song (Kians) on a target your going to mez.  It will just break in 4 seconds.  Instead, mez first then DoT the encounter as the mez makes it AE immune unless direct.  Lastly, Guv's is your friend.  Hit it with the mental debuff then mez or charm to lower resists and maximize duration.</P>

[Kilnger]

Charm, if used on a PVE mob (singular) will work as a memwipe and put you out of combat while it is on and when it wears off (short of a DoT). Because of how heroics work and modifying HP, it is actually very possible to charm a triple up or high HP mob and cause it damage (due to it scaling down and losing max HP). On top of it all, if you're fighting two mobs with DoTs, charm one, let it aggro on the other, let the two fight it out, and when charm wears off if the dot is still on the formerly charmed mob, the two will kill each other while you watch. It's actually extremely fun to do.<div></div>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>Charm makes a great 'filler' spell for when you get 2 ^^^ adds. Mez one, charm the other. When charm wears off you can mez the second and then keep the pair of adds mezzed for ever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also helps for soloing. Usually when fighting a pair of lvl 70^^s if you charm one and stick it on the other mob they will fight each other and the charmed mob (because of the massive reduction from 'heroic' to normal) will quite often be dead before charm wears off... there are not many non-named mobs that a troubador cannot solo. If you have the patience you can solo a 72^^^ (I tried this once, i broke the encounter after 40 minutes... it was still at 60%... regening in-combat takes too long (used potions, no Quirons AA at that point though.)</DIV>

[Nainitsuj]

<DIV>I think I can count how many times my T7 M1 charm was resisted on both hands since I've had it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They're both great BTW.  Mez one mob, charm the second and put it on the third.  When charm wears off mez the second add and finnish off the third.</DIV>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>Dove song + Charm focus AA + mental debuff (2500ish with AAs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that set-up i haven't had a single resist on my charm when trying to charm anything that is even or below. Yellows give the occasional resist and OJs seem to be about 50%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dove Song FTW!</DIV>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>I suspect all you troubs that are praising charm are level 70.</P> <P>> I like to think of it as a high damage, short duration DoT that <BR>> has the added effect of taking a mob out of the fight.  </P> <P>I think of it as a long-casting, low-damage DoT that might pull the mob off the tank onto me.</P> <P>At my level, I am lucky if the mob hits another twice before the charm wears off. I think I do more damage if I keep attacking instead of changing targets, and charming. </P>

[Thrashercat]

So what is your point? I liked my charm before this point, hated it for a bit after they nerfed it, but got over it. It has saved my butt a few times. I think its worthwhile for emergencies personally and the mez better for most situations. <div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mauserton wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=3>At level 20, I got this long-casting and purported 8-second charm.  I used is 4 times:  it was resisted 3 times, and the one time it worked, it lasted 2-3 second.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>that charm is beyond useless, it's insulting.  Even if is unresistable, at 8 seconds it's still worthless.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>My question is, before I waiste anymore time in this char, is the bard mez at 50 working reasonable well? or is it another insult from the devs?</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>hey bro ever consider the fact that untill u got your charm nothing u have used the SUBJIGATION Skill </P> <P>so your subjigation is like NOTHING </P> <P>you need to seriously raise that skill and then try using it on a regular basis you will find its EXTREEMELY handy<BR></P>

[Cuz]

I use charm when something attacks me and I want to harvest something. Any other time I'd rather use mez.<div></div>

[Mentla]

You absolutely HAVE to get your subjugation up too.  I spent all weekend just debuffing and hitting my three subjegations spells.  An Inq was out dpsing me on some fights just to give you an idea.  Finally got it maxed and waiting on an Adp III mez.  App I still lands more than not with maxed subj.How long does our highest level charm last?  I'm 52 and it's still only about 10 seconds.<div></div>

[Cuz]

<DIV>14 seconds I think.</DIV>

[CelandineStar]

I believe that charm at level 70 lasts 14 seconds (can't remember if I mastered it or not, probably only if a guildie gave me the spell).  I can't say I would ever sing the praises of charm, but I do admit I use it far more often now than I did when it took three concentration slots.  Also, my tank LOVES having me charm pull mobs, especially in social agro heavy areas.  As someone else said, I've never been resisted on even con or below, and only rarely on yellow cons.So those of you who hate charm now, how would you improve it?  I'd be happy with extending the duration to 30 seconds OR allowing us to charm nameds mobs.  I don't think either idea would be overpowered, and I'd like to see a happy medium between the charm of yesterday and the charm of today.<div></div>

[Cuz]

<DIV>The old version of charm was an awsome soloing tool. You couldn't tell the mob to attack, but it would defend you. It added some depth to the class. I would go visit the coercer boards for the best pets to charm. In small groups I'd have make the decision of keeping my buffs or pulling to take a hit and have my pet add DPS. I found that more often then not in small groups my pet would add more DPS then my buffs would.</DIV>

[Mentla]

By the way, it's awsome for PvP.  Reset my EoF AAs and filled the charm one to 14 second at level 52.  Can take a healer out for long enough to make a big dent in a group.  After it wears off bow stifle for the Q group wipe (filled that one too<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )<div></div>

[Cynnigig]

<DIV>I did not like the old version of charm, I hardly used it. I like being in control. I really like the new charm and use it constantly, in groups and while soloing. I think it is a powerful tool, so tweaking it can easily make it overpowered. Duration could be increased by a few seconds - or the increase given by the AAs raised - reuse timer reduced. I don't understand why lower level charms are not exactly the same as the high level one.</DIV>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cynnigig wrote:<BR> <DIV>I did not like the old version of charm, I hardly used it. I like being in control. I really like the new charm and use it constantly, in groups and while soloing. I think it is a powerful tool, so tweaking it can easily make it overpowered. Duration could be increased by a few seconds - or the increase given by the AAs raised - reuse timer reduced. I don't understand why lower level charms are not exactly the same as the high level one.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Get hit by what you wanted it to attack, it wasn't that coimplicated :p</P> <P>Also if the lower versions of the spell where the exact same as the higher version, why have more then 1 version at all? Personally I'd switch charm and mez around. Put Mez on the 14 level cycle instead of charm, and make charm our level 50 "really good spell". Also make charm like the coercer version.</P>

[ReturnOfMadness]

What all of ya <3 the charm of coercer sayers are forgetting is taht the coercer charm takes 3 slots and only lasts 10 minutes with break check every 30 seconds or sumthing =/ prefer to keep my old buffs and the current charm over that tbh<div></div>

[Spider]

<P>charm pulling in social agro alone makes it extreemely worth while and while a few extra secnods would be nice as well as chaming names i realy have no major complaints about it </P> <P>and if i wanted a big pet charm id play a coercer not a troub </P>

[Cuz]

<div><blockquote><hr>ReturnOfMadness wrote:What all of ya <3 the charm of coercer sayers are forgetting is taht the coercer charm takes 3 slots and only lasts 10 minutes with break check every 30 seconds or sumthing =/ prefer to keep my old buffs and the current charm over that tbh<div></div><hr></blockquote>Considering I'm the only one who mentioned it, I think this is addressed to me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />My theory is that a troub with the coercer charm would actually be too strong. I have no doubt that the pet can allow more dps than the buffs you'd maintain for that purpose. I remeber with the old charm, when I started following coercers advice and taking a select few mobs as pets, the pets could out DPS me from time to time.</div>

[Mentla]

Did some more playing yesterday - wont give details but suffice to say there was a bot group in EF good enought to wipe themselves for me  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Got it to 14 seconds at my level (52) with my AA respec  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>