The Role and how to PvP as a troubador

[RainieSummer]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3"><font color="#339900"><font color="#ff0000">Highlights as a Troubador:-Aria of Acclamation-Jesters Cap-Resist buffsShort list of Negative aspects of the trouby- Leather wearers get more mitigation- Solo PvP fights, consider yourself handicapped- Very limited groups for a troubador to be decently effective- Only Defining buff is Aria of acclamation, Extremely need more defining buffs- No run Speed worthwhile- No Sprint speed worthwhile, Rangers were givin a unlimited incombat evac w/ this.Gearing up your troubador:Overall your character no matter what will be extremely <font color="#3333ff">Frail, <font color="#ff0000">Very low mitigation and avoidance. My suggestions are instead of focusing on stats etc, focus more on Resist based items; then more on Int followed by Str,Sta,Agi.</font></font>Benefits from last latest Patches:*None*Mages and Priest receieved increases in focus + abilities to help avoid getting resisted in combat (Troubadors greatly need help w/ thus, Dove song is a poor alternative w/ little benefits.)Short list of possible alternatives- Increased buff benefits, or more defining buffs if this truely is to be our role- Better Mez, Increased Casting speed and lower reuse time- Increased Skills to help avoid resist in PvP its a bit *Rediculous*- Selo's, not Jog speed- Increase the amount of spells that can be casted while moving, or make thus a AA optionHow to PvP as a Troubador: This is where SoE loves you, 70-70 its no fun time.- Average geared players in resist based items 3kish;  will resist 9 out of 10 of your songs (Very Frustrating)- Start off w/ Jesters cap (if you don't get the jump run away untill you do), land a snare and stay long range, if you get trapped inside w/ a opponent that is melee try stunning followed quicly by a mez and pray it acctually lands to allow yourself time to escape and rekite.- You can NOT out dps healers, just stay away, The Devs clearly like them being OP'ed- Other Scouts: If they get w/ in 5meters of you your dead, there stuns and burst dps will finish you in seconds (so stay away)- Mages: Prey you resist, Mages offer a 50/50 chance of success, problems you will experience is many resisted songs you cast, (remember your stifle bow attack)- Fighters: Why itwas added i do not understand, but it now seems every high level fighter has achieved the earring from EoF that benefits w/ +10k Mental Resist. Any figther w/ this item will send you to your revive point surelySadly it seems:</font></font></font></font><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3">The current Definition of a Troubador: A Coercer with no spells combined with a swashbuckler with no Combat artsThe current role of a Troubador: Do steady medium DPS *non burst*, while buffing your group. <font color="#339900">*These buffs are average to be honest, the only true worth while buff is Aria of Acclamation*AA lines:Bard: Str / Sta currently seem to be the best way to go, Sta line although may seem awkward acctually will increase your dps slightly and make you a bit less frail. Strength is a great line to have for raiding for the end result, and its benefits are very nice as well.Class: I am pleased in general w/ the AA aspects here, would suggest few changes but <font color="#330000"><font color="#3366ff">overall</font> </font>much nicer then a lot of the other classes choicesEven though all the negative aspects of this post i still love my troubador and think she is a few steps from being the most fun and skilled class to play again. Hopefully the Dev's will finally sort some things out, attempt to fix the class shortly and troubadors #'s will rise again.</font></font></font><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3"><font color="#339900"><font color="#ff0000">Master Rainie SummerWhiny 70 Trouby of Venekor wishing for some love<font size="5"></font></font></font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by RainieSummer on <span class="date_text">01-03-2007</span> <span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RainieSummer on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 AM</span>

[RainieSummer]

<div></div>A <font size="5">Extremely helpful hint</font> for troubadors on a PvP server: <font color="#0066ff">Suggest turning the Auto Lock Combat Camera off which prevents you from kiting in combat. By doing this you have complete free control over your character. EQ2->Options->Controls->View Options-> Change *free look Controls* Uncheck enable combat auto face avatar.</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by RainieSummer on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:16 AM</span>

[Epif]

<P>I agree With you 100% on this post I find it kinda crapy that the only thing im even good for  is raiding  i mean what about when im not raiding or grouped with a good group of players. where my solo system THATS right its Not hear. On Nagafen i find my self only being able to pick off green  players that i out right  get the  jump on. Im a lvl 67 Troub with all master  spells and  master crafted gear 78 aa's and still find it hard to take any one down  but players i 100% shock the crap outta  We need something done about the troub and if sony doesnt do any thing im forced to role another toon  which sucks cause i love the troub  alot   but we cant do anything  if its 2 on 1  99.9% of the time were ganna die. I have had my self stun locked so bad i got hit and was stuned for the hole fight  when WITH the troub aa My cheap shot only lasts 3 seconds enough time to get  35 meters out and get picked off by the  Ranger or any class with range.</P> <P> </P> <P>Epif Troub lvl 67 </P>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>IFL2P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cant kill most bruisers, assasins and mages, there's something wrong. Also any plate tank who doesnt have raincaller should be a walk over. Shadowknights without HT up are quite doable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are only 3 classes IMO that we have 0 chance against... Coercers, wardens and brigands. (possibly swash and illusionist) all others we have a shot at. Also group PvP is where the troubador really shines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get a pair of warlocks, a berserker, a warden and a mystic and you're set. not much gonna touch that group.</DIV>

[RainieSummer]

Paikis,<blockquote><hr>Mildavyn wrote:<div>IFL2P</div> <div> </div> <div>If you cant kill <i><u><b>most</b></u> </i><b>bruisers, assasins</b>  <font color="#ff0000">What? no sorry </font>and mages, there's something wrong. Also any plate tank who doesnt have <font color="#ff0000">raincaller <b>What does that have to do w/ anything, isn't that a t6 bow?</b></font> should be a walk over. Shadowknights <b>without HT</b> <font color="#ff0000">Key point</font> up are quite doable. </div> <div> </div> <div>There are only 3 classes IMO that we have 0 chance against... Coercers, wardens and brigands. (possibly swash and illusionist) all others we have a shot at. Also group PvP is where the troubador really shines.<font color="#ff3333">Clearly NO, or i wouldn't have made such a postAny <i><b>Above</b></i> Avg. Healer, Templar, Inquis, Defiler, mystic, Druid you have .... 0%Monk, Bruiser..... your lucky to land a song, Drytan <u><i><b>resisted 43 of 46</b></i></u> of my songs and laughed about it afterward in a discussion (how i even survived that long is the laugh i suppose)Assassin, Ranger ? if you get the jump its possible, but then again, if there Mental is above 4k No don't even botherSwashbuckler, Brigand? 10%? SoE decides your fate in resists if 1/2 land i say you have a chanceIllusionist are a struggle but doable.Even being capable of landing all of your songs w/ out any resist, the class is still underpowered in 1v1 pvp dramatically even in Group. SoE needs to do something about the 100% resists you get when trying to have fun while PvPingDo you Resist Brigands, Swashbucklers, Rangers, Assassins 9 out of 10 times? Heck no 9 out of 10 of there combat arts will  hit you cause of the pathetic avoidance and Mitigation the class is given. Mages and Priest were giving skills to help avoid these resists. The class suffers dramatically at this point.</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#3399cc">Get a pair of warlocks, a berserker, a warden and a mystic and you're set. not much gonna touch that group.</font><font color="#3399cc"></font><font color="#3399cc">Priest aren't killable why not just Mystic/Templar Druid Berserker Swash Warlock Illusionist </font><font color="#3399cc"></font><font color="#3399cc">Wheres the room for a troub? i clearly wouldn't let one in my pvp group if i wasn't one</font></div><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Kilnger]

Troubadours offer more then enough to groups. Jester's cap on healers makes a HUGE difference as well as on tanks. Str/Sta and Aria are big ones, but the ones most people don't ever really see or think about are requiem and dove song.On any given fight with even a hybrid in the opposing group, Requiem will go off at the least once per member short of a steamroll. Against things with DoTs, requiem becomes even more noticeable because every tick on every DoT has a chance to proc RoR.Dove song is by and far one of the most ridiculously powerful songs in PVP. With it, I've had group members -ignore- Cacophany of Blades. In addition, if you run with a warlock and/or wisdom specced crusader and throw it up, virtually the entire group will reach various spell skill caps. Assuming you build your gear to be balanced around all stats, +weapon skill of what you're using, and either subjugation or disruption it's very rare that you will be spam resisted.Raxxyl's speaks for itself in that it makes the group more durable (don't scoff, the stamina adds up) and do more damage in melee. Aria is a given and will help almost any group you run with.Solo PVP is widespread and will matter entirely on computer performance (kiting), reaction time, and good old fashioned luck. Bruisers are a joke as long as they don't have drag (sonic fists + drag = sad panda) and are only particularly threatening because they can and will ignore mez as well as absorb primary shrill. Assassins are hit or miss half the time, simply due to getting stun locked or getting decapped/hit from behind. SKs, even with harm touch, are fun to fight and fairly straightforward. About the only caster that should give any trouble would be a coercer (evil incarnate those buggers) and everything else can and should be a walk in the park. Healers are very tough to deal with, simply due to lack of massive spike damage and should be avoided save for average or heal specced shamans and clerics. It is extremely simple to waste a cleric or shaman that is not paying attention due to Lore's and the fairly consistant (but not high) damage we can put out. I mention clerics and shamans only because if they focus on staying alive they will burn through their mana extremely quickly and become nothing more then lameducks (druids are another matter entirely). Rogues are a bard's best friends outside of solo PVP and worst inside. It's a good idea to mez one and leave it alone then call for someone else. If you get 2v1 against a rogue and something else though, charm the rogue and watch him absolutely OBLITERATE his partner (I can't count how many 2v1s I've won because I've charmed the rogue and cleaned up after.) Warriors are kiteable and should be kited as often as possible. If you fight a necromancer or a conjurer, be wary of the pet they have out. If they walk with a scout pet, mez the summoner, waste the pet. If they walk with a tank pet, mez the tank pet, waste the summoner. Assuming no lag and/or incompetant summoner, it is very easy to take one down (more often then not, a summoner will book it if their pet dies or they see you smacking them and their pet standing there). Just stifle/interrupt lock a sorcerer and have your way with 'em. Dirges have big advantages over us, namely in the realm of spike damage and DoT, but luck can and will beat them.Troubadours are given a myriad of tools to more then excel in PVP combat. We are not gods of solo combat by any means but we can turn almost ANY group into an unstoppable powerhouse. If you're having difficultly landing a song invest in getting +disruption/subjugation chain, running dove song, and grouping with people who give spell buffs. Or hell, snare and flank attack more often, it will make worlds of difference. The aforementioned pair of warlock, zerker, warden, mystic group and be demolished extremely quick. Charm the zerker, waste one or both warlocks (remember, zerker probably brew his timers), then simply mop up. Use and abuse -all- of the CC abilities given to us. Mez one, charm another, stifle a third, cheap shot the fourth, then bellow for good measure. Why resist people's CAs and whatnot if you can use them to your advantage via charm or ignore them completely with mez. Anyone running around with high mental resists (inquisitors and coercers notwithstanding) is asking to be obliterated by every other caster class in the game. A troubadour's strength should be judged by what they do with the group they're given, not by what they accomplish while running around alone.<div></div>

[Mildavyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kilnger wrote:<BR>Troubadours offer more then enough to groups. <FONT color=#ff0000><snip></FONT> <BR><BR>Anyone running around with high mental resists (inquisitors and coercers notwithstanding) is asking to be obliterated by every other caster class in the game. <BR><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>A troubadour's strength should be judged by what they do with the group they're given, not by what they accomplish while running around alone</FONT>.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>QFE!</FONT> </P> <P>Kilandara, your method of destroying the group i mentioned relied on charm and mez. How many classes can charm in PvP combat? Just troubs? (possibly chanters too, not sure) </P> <P>That group has stood up to a x3 raid and killed 2 full groups before going down. (granted about 3/4 of the kills were greys, but there were some white/blue cons with them, and they were only grey by 1 or 2 levels). With a mystic for wards, a warden for heals and a Troubador for mana-regen and buffing the warlock... its just sick what we can do with that set-up. Yes we lost, but we did a hell of a lot of damage before we went down.<BR></P>

[shamane1]

<blockquote><hr>RainieSummer wrote:<div></div><div></div><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3"><font color="#339900"><font color="#ff0000">Highlights as a Troubador:-Aria of Acclamation-Jesters Cap-Resist buffsShort list of Negative aspects of the trouby- Leather wearers get more mitigation- Solo PvP fights, consider yourself handicapped- Very limited groups for a troubador to be decently effective- Only Defining buff is Aria of acclamation, Extremely need more defining buffs- No run Speed worthwhile- No Sprint speed worthwhile, Rangers were givin a unlimited incombat evac w/ this.Gearing up your troubador:Overall your character no matter what will be extremely <font color="#3333ff">Frail, <font color="#ff0000">Very low mitigation and avoidance. My suggestions are instead of focusing on stats etc, focus more on Resist based items; then more on Int followed by Str,Sta,Agi.</font></font>Benefits from last latest Patches:*None*Mages and Priest receieved increases in focus + abilities to help avoid getting resisted in combat (Troubadors greatly need help w/ thus, Dove song is a poor alternative w/ little benefits.)Short list of possible alternatives- Increased buff benefits, or more defining buffs if this truely is to be our role- Better Mez, Increased Casting speed and lower reuse time- Increased Skills to help avoid resist in PvP its a bit *Rediculous*- Selo's, not Jog speed- Increase the amount of spells that can be casted while moving, or make thus a AA optionHow to PvP as a Troubador: This is where SoE loves you, 70-70 its no fun time.- Average geared players in resist based items 3kish;  will resist 9 out of 10 of your songs (Very Frustrating)- Start off w/ Jesters cap (if you don't get the jump run away untill you do), land a snare and stay long range, if you get trapped inside w/ a opponent that is melee try stunning followed quicly by a mez and pray it acctually lands to allow yourself time to escape and rekite.- You can NOT out dps healers, just stay away, The Devs clearly like them being OP'ed- Other Scouts: If they get w/ in 5meters of you your dead, there stuns and burst dps will finish you in seconds (so stay away)- Mages: Prey you resist, Mages offer a 50/50 chance of success, problems you will experience is many resisted songs you cast, (remember your stifle bow attack)- Fighters: Why itwas added i do not understand, but it now seems every high level fighter has achieved the earring from EoF that benefits w/ +10k Mental Resist. Any figther w/ this item will send you to your revive point surelySadly it seems:</font></font></font></font><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3">The current Definition of a Troubador: A Coercer with no spells combined with a swashbuckler with no Combat artsThe current role of a Troubador: Do steady medium DPS *non burst*, while buffing your group. <font color="#339900">*These buffs are average to be honest, the only true worth while buff is Aria of Acclamation*AA lines:Bard: Str / Sta currently seem to be the best way to go, Sta line although may seem awkward acctually will increase your dps slightly and make you a bit less frail. Strength is a great line to have for raiding for the end result, and its benefits are very nice as well.Class: I am pleased in general w/ the AA aspects here, would suggest few changes but <font color="#330000"><font color="#3366ff">overall</font> </font>much nicer then a lot of the other classes choicesEven though all the negative aspects of this post i still love my troubador and think she is a few steps from being the most fun and skilled class to play again. Hopefully the Dev's will finally sort some things out, attempt to fix the class shortly and troubadors #'s will rise again.</font></font></font><font color="#ff0000"><font size="3"><font color="#339900"><font color="#ff0000">Master Rainie SummerWhiny 70 Trouby of Venekor wishing for some love<font size="5"></font></font></font></font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by RainieSummer on <span class="date_text">01-03-2007</span> <span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by RainieSummer on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:35 AM</span><hr></blockquote>farm alts more imo

[Nainitsuj]

<P>Raincaller has a very nice stun.  So.. you're kiting a tank who has raincaller; they can run after you while auto attacking with raincaller.  It procs the stun and you're done.  That's ... 6 seconds (I forget) of standing there wishing you hadn't started the fight.</P>

[Lachlan]

<div></div><div><font face="Arial" size="3"></font><blockquote><hr><font face="Arial" size="3">Kilnger wrote:Troubadours are given a myriad of tools to more then excel in PVP combat. We are not gods of solo combat by any means but we can turn almost ANY group into an unstoppable powerhouse. If you're having difficultly landing a song invest in getting +disruption/subjugation chain, running dove song, and grouping with people who give spell buffs.  </font><font color="#ffff00" face="Arial" size="3">- Am I the only one who finds this statement self contridictory? I mean if you have a myriad of tools to excel in pvp then you really shouldn't qualify it in the next breath to be only grouped and only with a certain AA line from the 3rd expansion that most ppl fill out post-70 and only grouped with certain buff classes.  I would characterize that as "a limited niche where you can be effective".  We can do some nice things for groups but I find 'unstoppable powerhouse' to be pure hyperbole.  Were it true, more people would be playing the class on Nagafen or Velk and you'd hear ppl scream "EVAC!  They have a Troub~".</font><font face="Arial" size="3">A troubadour's strength should be judged by what they do with the group they're given, not by what they accomplish while running around alone. </font><font color="#ffff00" face="Arial" size="3">- Where are the Jack-of-All-Trades preachers when you need them?  I thought Troubs were prevented from being particularly good at dps or avoiding damage or having the best debuff or most effective mez/charm was cause we could do everything fairly well.  Apparently not. </font><font face="Arial" size="3"></font><font face="Arial" size="3"></font><hr></blockquote><font face="Arial" size="3"></font><font color="#ffff00" face="Arial" size="3">Honestly, I think the truth about Troubs lives somewhere in between the OP and Kilnger's post (or a couple other folks on this board - pick one).  The Troub in general, but especially in PvP, is a niche player who's suffered from a laundry list of nerfs in about 12 months of LU's.  Regarding PvP, the solo game for high level Troubs is not a winning proposition, kiting gets very hard with pvpers who have high resists.  Calling Assissins with decap down or afk Shadowknights out best chance for a kill seems pretty lame to me.  I think everyone expects at least a minimum performance level from any class in PvP and the vast majority of people playing on the PvP servers recognize that the Troub isn't there.  The Troub's remaining strengths of regen and dps-over-time-boosting lend well to exp grinds and fighting certain raid bosses.  Mez and Charm can still impact a fight and cause opposing groups to collapse if they don't have mental resists buffed up or redundencies like 2 healers.  Some of the buffs are good but not up to the class defining buffs/debuffs that other support classes and even dps classes get.Your PvP troub in January 07 can do some nice things in group, help your guild get raid gear (abeit as a bit of a buff bot *yawn*) and <strike>run around faster than anyone</strike> be pretty quick with 8 AA points and T4 Jboots on.  The buffs are by and large a wide mix of mediocre buffs that don't translate well to fast, 30 seconds or less pvp fights, mez with some EoF AA's is still quite good if they didn't buff the crap out of mental.   There ya have it. </font></div><p>Message Edited by Lachlan on <span class=date_text>01-12-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 AM</span>

[Kilnger]

In PVP, most people do NOT recognize what a troubadour brings because the honest truth is that it's extremely subtle. A troubadour can go completely offensive to defensive with a simple switch of two to three songs. Truth be told, the only reason everyone goes down the wisdom line is because the upgrades from strength and intelligence are marginal at best and allegro and DKtM add a significant amount in comparison.Troubadours are exactly the class they're supposed to be. You don't run screaming from a troubadour because half the time you think they're just a spoony bard and will do no harm to you. We had a group claim to call one that I was in as hacking and overpowered because we managed to hit them with a double apocalypse at the same time (cough cough, requiem). Cap goes a long way in terms of giving that extra boost to ANY class in PVP and the strength of charm and mez speak for themselves. Pretty much the only song we can't effectively use in PVP is Quiron's, and there's actually times when it can be put to good use (like when we're being zerged and the healers are running low on mana).We have tools and we have effective ways of combatting most anything it's just a matter of actually SEEING the use for those tools and not shouting how anyone that fills any specific categories can school you.In the end, you can either succumb to the doom and gloom attitude of how troubadours are made of epic failure or you can slap yourself out of the pessimism and bunker down while playing the class the best you can. You could always reroll if nothing else.<div></div>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>As Leifwier used to say, IFL2P.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubador is fine in PvP. Get a decent group and go own ANYTHING. I was in a single group last week that wiped 2 groups of a x3 before finally getting killed ourselves. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My group: Berzerker, Mystic, Warden, Warlock, Swashbuckler, Me (Troubador)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In this group my usual set-up is: DKtM, 8pt Allegro, Dove song, Raxxyls, Bria's, Requeim, Aria.</DIV> <DIV>Basic PvP against another group: Cap the warlock, cast PotM and then count your tokens. It really is that easy. The other classes are only there to keep the warlock alive long enough to kill everything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>About the only thing i can think of that would stop this group is another troubador. If i was going to FIGHT this group, i would charm the tank, mez the healer and kill the troubador (assuming i had a group to help me) then go after the DPS. The warlock will actually HELP you by casting spells at you. With 12% per person, Requeim has a 72% chance to reflect AEs atleast once. When you reflect the same spell 2-3 times, its just gold. The best i ever saw was 3 Apoc's reflected, one of which crit'd. Needless to say, we won that fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As Kilandara has said before (He's not the only one) there is no group that cannot be made better by adding a bard, and PvP groups with a troubador are alot more likely to kill things. Charm alone should garuantee us a spot in a PvP group, the rest is just gravy.</DIV>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> RainieSummer wrote:<BR><BR>Paikis,<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> Mildavyn wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG>IFL2P</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>If you cant kill <I><U>most</U> </I>bruisers, assasins  <FONT color=#ff0000>What? no sorry <FONT color=#6633ff>(what? Yes, sorry. I'll give you the bruiser one, because you're fighting monks, who have higher mental resists, but BRUISERS themselves are usually free tokens for me. Also assasins are totally useless from range, kite em and again, free token.)</FONT> </FONT>and mages, there's something wrong. Also any plate tank who doesnt have <FONT color=#ff0000>raincaller What does that have to do w/ anything, isn't that a t6 bow? <FONT color=#6633ff>(Its a t6 bow with a 6s stun on it)</FONT></FONT> should be a walk over. Shadowknights without HT <FONT color=#ff0000>Key point </FONT><FONT color=#6633ff>(true, and i'd like to now add SKs to my list of Un-killables due to their insane lifetaps, i cant put a dent in these guys now)</FONT> up are quite doable.<BR></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>There are only 3 classes IMO that we have 0 chance against... Coercers, wardens and brigands. (possibly swash and illusionist) all others we have a shot at. Also group PvP is where the troubador really shines.<BR></STRONG><FONT color=#ff3333><STRONG>Clearly NO, or i wouldn't have made such a post<BR>Any <I>Above</I> Avg. Healer, Templar, Inquis, Defiler, mystic, Druid you have .... 0% <FONT color=#6633ff>(You DO use Lore's and sandra's for the power drains right? and you DO use your charm and mez every time their immunity runs out so Quirrons can get more time to regen right?)</FONT><BR>Monk, Bruiser..... your lucky to land a song, Drytan <U><I>resisted 43 of 46</I></U> <FONT color=#6633ff>(Drytan is a raid-geared monk. Drytan is also a MONK and they specialise in mental resists, he doesnt count)</FONT> of my songs and laughed about it afterward in a discussion (how i even survived that long is the laugh i suppose)<BR>Assassin, Ranger ? if you get the jump its possible, but then again, if there Mental is above 4k No don't even bother <FONT color=#6633ff>(Guvienna's reduces mental resists by 2500 or so, the only people who should be resisting alot are tanks with that earing that procs 9k mental resists)</FONT><BR>Swashbuckler, Brigand? 10%? SoE decides your fate in resists if 1/2 land i say you have a chance <FONT color=#6633ff>(i already said brigs are in my no chance box)</FONT><BR>Illusionist are a struggle but doable.<BR><BR>Even being capable of landing all of your songs w/ out any resist, the class is still underpowered in 1v1 pvp dramatically even in Group. SoE needs to do something about the 100% resists you get when trying to have fun while PvPing<BR><BR>Do you Resist Brigands, Swashbucklers, Rangers, Assassins 9 out of 10 times? Heck no 9 out of 10 of there combat arts will  hit you cause of the pathetic avoidance and Mitigation the class is given. Mages and Priest were giving skills to help avoid these resists. The class suffers dramatically at this point.<BR><BR></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399cc><STRONG>Get a pair of warlocks, a berserker, a warden and a mystic and you're set. not much gonna touch that group.</STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#3399cc><BR></FONT><FONT color=#3399cc><STRONG>Priest aren't killable why not just Mystic/Templar Druid Berserker Swash Warlock Illusionist </STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#3399cc><BR></FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#3399cc>Wheres the room for a troub? i clearly wouldn't let one in my pvp group if i wasn't one</FONT><BR></STRONG></DIV><BR><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Sure, change one of the warlocks, but make it a conj or wiz, anything that does spell damage... I'd take the troubador over the Illusionist EVERY time though. Why? Well they both get mez and they both get mana regen (bards is better, but meh) the real clincher is Jester's Cap, PotM and Aria. With those 3 spells your warlock goes from 'dangerous to groups' to 'I'm going to go kill god now' I had Phineus (Warlock) putting out over 45k damage         (3k DPS) in a 6 second fight against a full group, show me an illusionist who can do that.</P> <P>Also im pretty sure the bard reflect is better than the illusionist one, and charm is so good its not funny. Thats most of it, all the other buffs are just gravy.<BR><BR><BR></P> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG></DIV><BR><STRONG></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[PeaSy1]

I see no probs with troub in pvp even solo 1v1.Mine is a 31 and the only real prob i have are healers.I am nearly all mastered out and a3.Gear is just mastercrafted.Ive beaten all classes in solo (exclude healers) and even mopped groups vs me.<div></div>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>I don't mean to be harsh, but until you hit 70, your opinion doesnt count. Pre-50 troubadors are great, no problems that i know of. after 50 is where the bugs and problems start. However, see my last post.</DIV>

[Qwestionator]

Well PvPing as as a troubador varies completely on the setting.  In a group your job is to buff and crowd control - our DPS isnt all that important in a 6v6 and in a raid vs raid pvp setting troub dps pretty much ... well doesnt do anything --- yes i know theres times where the tank is at 100 hps or w/e but generally speaking.   In a 3v3 or 2v2 type deal mez is crucial as are stifle but doing some dps counts.  Frankly Solo pvp is my favorite and its probably one of the more difficult areas for a troub - i havent really mastered it all that much but i try =).When Solo i run - Self Buff, Dove Song, Defense Song, HP Regen (ill explain this one), and Arcane Resist song.Self Buff - the Proc is nice... and i mean its an obvious choiceDove Song - Casting skills - decrease resists - i run with 385 disruption/subj atm tryin to get it higher =)Defense Song - i have 53% avoidance atm solo including thisArcane Resist - pretty much all Stifle/Fear procs from t7 gear is mental based ( as is the brigand snare and other things) - so i run mental and i have 5 points in the regenerating ward - it makes coercers easy to kill if that means anything to anyone =)HP Regen - This one may seem strange i know alot of troubs dont ever even use this in pvp but ill explain it - i have it Adept 3 and with 5 aa points i have more or less 150 in combat regen a tick - as most troubs probably know most fights take a long time - at least the way i fight they do lol - And just as a ... random fact - with AAs mez lasts 25 seconds - thats 4-5 ticks - if you let the mez go to full duration you regnerate 600-750 hp just while they are mezzed.  Honestly it helps a ton with kiting - With Resonance you can kite out of most peoples ranges - you can even kite wizards if you time your interrupts etc properly.Just random stuff etc - i was bored so i posted this -- my strat as a troub is to kite - i kite eveything except furies because of their run speed - even healers - take advantage of being able to cast on the move, most other classes cant do that.<div></div>

[Kilnger]

HP Regen is only moderately useful as a soloer and even then, other songs would be significantly better (like power). Reason being is if you group with anyone that has an HP regen (they're not that uncommon, a dime a dozen really) you'll very easily slaughter the HP regen cap and have pretty much half your song wasted (and the reason you waste a song is because they have nothing else to put up in the conc slot and usually the buff adds something else). It also doesn't help that fighting any half decent group will usually bring the fight to an end in less then a minute. HP Regen is great to turn on during a really long fight but it's hardly something to have on. Requiem is god's gift to PVP troubadours and is by and far one of the most abusable and overpowered songs in PVP, period. Ever absorbed a miracle? That's a laugh and a half. Especially grouping with a templar for blessings or a dirge for luck of the dirge (or virtually any class that gives +proc %) makes it even more ridiculous. Defense song is nice but can be completely invalidated by a single scout -defense. Really does give a nice cushion though.I highly agree on arcane resist. Run this in accordance to requiem and point and laugh at most divine casters and enchanters.<div></div>

[Spider]

<P>personaly i dont see where your having so many issues </P> <P>in pvp i regularly drop every class besides healers </P> <P>healers are most definatly the scizors to our paper </P> <P>but i tear casters ,tanks , and scouts appart on a regular basis </P> <P>most cant even touch my as my first thing to do is snare ( which is never resistsed at master with maxxed casting skills ) then debuff like crazy ( if there a caster steath and hit em with the int debuff)  and then kite to my hearts content </P> <P>i take on reds and oj's every day and have few problems  1v1 a good troub is a pvp king </P> <P>however 2v1  even against say a green and a blue were sunk <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>and healers consistantly hand us our arses but im ok with that in the long run </P> <P>while we could definatly use some tweeks were not nearly as bad off as many make it sound </P>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RainieSummer wrote:<BR><BR>Paikis,<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mildavyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>IFL2P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cant kill <I><U><B>most</B></U> </I><B>bruisers, assasins</B>  <FONT color=#ff0000>What? no sorry </FONT>and mages, there's something wrong. Also any plate tank who doesnt have <FONT color=#ff0000>raincaller <B>What does that have to do w/ anything, isn't that a t6 bow?</B></FONT> should be a walk over. Shadowknights <B>without HT</B> <FONT color=#ff0000>Key point</FONT> up are quite doable. <BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are only 3 classes IMO that we have 0 chance against... Coercers, wardens and brigands. (possibly swash and illusionist) all others we have a shot at. Also group PvP is where the troubador really shines.<BR><FONT color=#ff3333>Clearly NO, or i wouldn't have made such a post<BR>Any <I><B>Above</B></I> Avg. Healer, Templar, Inquis, Defiler, mystic, Druid you have .... 0%<BR>Monk, Bruiser..... your lucky to land a song, Drytan <U><I><B>resisted 43 of 46</B></I></U> of my songs and laughed about it afterward in a discussion (how i even survived that long is the laugh i suppose)<BR>Assassin, Ranger ? if you get the jump its possible, but then again, if there Mental is above 4k No don't even bother<BR>Swashbuckler, Brigand? 10%? SoE decides your fate in resists if 1/2 land i say you have a chance<BR>Illusionist are a struggle but doable.<BR><BR>Even being capable of landing all of your songs w/ out any resist, the class is still underpowered in 1v1 pvp dramatically even in Group. SoE needs to do something about the 100% resists you get when trying to have fun while PvPing<BR><BR>Do you Resist Brigands, Swashbucklers, Rangers, Assassins 9 out of 10 times? Heck no 9 out of 10 of there combat arts will  hit you cause of the pathetic avoidance and Mitigation the class is given. Mages and Priest were giving skills to help avoid these resists. The class suffers dramatically at this point.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#3399cc>Get a pair of warlocks, a berserker, a warden and a mystic and you're set. not much gonna touch that group.</FONT><FONT color=#3399cc><BR></FONT><FONT color=#3399cc>Priest aren't killable why not just Mystic/Templar Druid Berserker Swash Warlock Illusionist </FONT><FONT color=#3399cc><BR></FONT><FONT color=#3399cc>Wheres the room for a troub? i clearly wouldn't let one in my pvp group if i wasn't one</FONT><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>looking at this discussion id like to get some clarification are you on a pvp server or are u deuling ? or are u on a pvp server and fighting int eh arena ? <BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Mildavyn]

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<blockquote><blockquote></blockquote>looking at this discussion id like to get some clarification are you on a pvp server or are u deuling ? or are u on a pvp server and fighting int eh arena ? <div></div></blockquote><hr></blockquote>I play on Venekor (see sig) and i despise the arena. Rainie also plays on venekor, although she's playing for the losing side (send the freeps back to freeport already!) I don't tihnk I've ever managed to kill her in a 1v1, which makes me wonder why it is that i can kill all these classes in 1v1s that she cant...? She has MUCH better gear than me, im in mostly legendary or mastercrafted, shes in full PvP gear. Go figure.</div>

[Mentla]

<div><blockquote><hr>Qwestionator wrote:Well PvPing as as a troubador varies completely on the setting.  In a group your job is to buff and crowd control - our DPS isnt all that important in a 6v6 and in a raid vs raid pvp setting troub dps pretty much ... well doesnt do anything --- yes i know theres times where the tank is at 100 hps or w/e but generally speaking.   In a 3v3 or 2v2 type deal mez is crucial as are stifle but doing some dps counts.  Frankly Solo pvp is my favorite and its probably one of the more difficult areas for a troub - i havent really mastered it all that much but i try =).When Solo i run - Self Buff, Dove Song, Defense Song, HP Regen (ill explain this one), and Arcane Resist song.Self Buff - the Proc is nice... and i mean its an obvious choiceDove Song - Casting skills - decrease resists - i run with 385 disruption/subj atm tryin to get it higher =)Defense Song - i have 53% avoidance atm solo including thisArcane Resist - pretty much all Stifle/Fear procs from t7 gear is mental based ( as is the brigand snare and other things) - so i run mental and i have 5 points in the regenerating ward - it makes coercers easy to kill if that means anything to anyone =)HP Regen - This one may seem strange i know alot of troubs dont ever even use this in pvp but ill explain it - i have it Adept 3 and with 5 aa points i have more or less 150 in combat regen a tick - as most troubs probably know most fights take a long time - at least the way i fight they do lol - And just as a ... random fact - with AAs mez lasts 25 seconds - thats 4-5 ticks - if you let the mez go to full duration you regnerate 600-750 hp just while they are mezzed.  Honestly it helps a ton with kiting - With Resonance you can kite out of most peoples ranges - you can even kite wizards if you time your interrupts etc properly.Just random stuff etc - i was bored so i posted this -- my strat as a troub is to kite - i kite eveything except furies because of their run speed - even healers - take advantage of being able to cast on the move, most other classes cant do that.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Seems we're the only ones using hp regen....This ward, that pull you into combat too?  Everything useful seems to <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mildavyn wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>looking at this discussion id like to get some clarification are you on a pvp server or are u deuling ? or are u on a pvp server and fighting int eh arena ? <BR><BR><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I play on Venekor (see sig) and i despise the arena. Rainie also plays on venekor, although she's playing for the losing side (send the freeps back to freeport already!) I don't tihnk I've ever managed to kill her in a 1v1, which makes me wonder why it is that i can kill all these classes in 1v1s that she cant...? She has MUCH better gear than me, im in mostly legendary or mastercrafted, shes in full PvP gear. Go figure.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>well from what ive noticed a lot of pvp and raid gear realy is poor on int and as for jewlery all mastercrafted caster jewlery seems to be most often the best way to go except for maybie a few rare peices in the last tier</P> <P> </P>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>I admit, alot of my jewelery has +INT on it, as well as +14 INT adornments on anything i could put em on. My INT self-buffed is around 800, and given the right classes in my group, I have had my INT as high as 1548... not that there's much point. I'm leaning more towards STR now. Once you get past around 500-600 the diminishing returns start cutting in and you aren't getting as much bang for your buck. Also, auto-attack and CAs make-up alot more of my total DPS than just spells do. To get that 1548 INT i had to use equipment which left me with around 250 STR after buffs.</DIV>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mildavyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I admit, alot of my jewelery has +INT on it, as well as +14 INT adornments on anything i could put em on. My INT self-buffed is around 800, and given the right classes in my group, I have had my INT as high as 1548... not that there's much point. I'm leaning more towards STR now. Once you get past around 500-600 the diminishing returns start cutting in and you aren't getting as much bang for your buck. Also, auto-attack and CAs make-up alot more of my total DPS than just spells do. To get that 1548 INT i had to use equipment which left me with around 250 STR after buffs.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>well this is very true u want a good amount of int but dont let ur str suffer too much ecause of it </P> <P>no need to get it past the point of diminishing returns just close to it then hit ur str and stam and agi </P> <P>like ive said i perfer all caster jewlery and all melodic armor </P> <P>it gives u all the int u need ( with ur self buff) and the armor realy helps with the str then u can use + str agi belt weapons and hex dolls to balance the rest out and ur golden </P> <P>heck even in teir 7 for pvp mastercrafted can be good for u since  no ammour of fabeled gear mitagation is gonna make u a tank so its not nearly as important but the stats from the master crafted stuff are in perfect line with what u need (except when u can replace a peice or 2 with a better one of course <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) </P>

[Reptilianb]

<P> </P> <P>if u want to win against scouts..  u have to do this (make sure they not out of combat first)</P> <P>Note: Buffs i have on.. are.... Dove Song, Str/sta buff, self buff, HP regen, defence buff</P> <P>1. Open with stifle</P> <P>2. Use all you biggest combat attacks</P> <P>3. When stifle is jsut abuot to wear off, use cheapshot</P> <P>4. do another combat attack</P> <P>5. shield bash</P> <P>6. mez</P> <P>at this stage they haven't been able to do anything.. except auto attack</P> <P>7. debuff with all non dmging debuffs (this is why not to use the dmg proc song, arias?), make sur eu have defensive debuff on too (lores)</P> <P>8. Jesters cap yourself (also, sometimes i use Precision of the maestro at this stage)</P> <P>9. Break mez with stifle</P> <P>10. use all biggest CA and nukes</P> <P>11. cheapshot when stuns about to wear off</P> <P>12. do another attack</P> <P>13. shield bash and evade</P> <P>14. Sprint away nuking</P> <P>15, stifle</P> <P>16. kil them</P> <P> </P> <P>some vids here (dont bump the post <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Nagafen&message.id=59209" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Nagafen&message.id=59209</A></P> <P>and some others, le tme know if u wanna see some more.</P> <P>Acolos 70 Troub Darathar</P> <P>Edit: vid here of some group vs group action <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Darathar&message.id=11166" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Darathar&message.id=11166</A> locking down the healer throughout the battle.</P> <P>the problem we face is bruisers with drag and warp too.. and anybody, and i mean anybody with  over 4-5k mental resists.. which is a bit of a joke. also the earing that fighters get that makes them immune to troubs, and then GOOD rangers are impsible to beat, healers take 15minutes to beat and involves running and lots of cures, SKs with high mental resists are very difficult, mages aren't as easy as they are with other scout classes, but they still normally die.... if your fighting a coercer agro a mob with your dot so it will break te mez when they attack you, and if they mez the mob your dot will break thats mez too... if u wann abeat a brig u need anti stun potions and/or status anti stun potions (guild level 50 required)... but as i said.. anyone with high mental resists can win any troub, which is a shame, especially when everyone knows who u r, and has resist gear especially to fight u.. and everyone one of our spells checks agaisnt mental resists.</P> <P>Message Edited by Reptilianboy on <SPAN class=date_text>01-29-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:52 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Reptilianboy on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[Mentla]

How often does stifle land for you?  I never seem to get much benifit from it.  Quallity of arrow shouldn't effect CAs but I think it may...<div></div>

[Reptilianb]

<P>not as often as it should land..</P> <P>its not guna land on most people ni defensive stance.. but u just godda cross your fingers... or jsut get ready to stnu then mez them (and cross fingers mez doesn't ressit)... then u can debuff there agi + defence, so that when u break mez with stifle, it has a lot bigger chance of landing.</P> <P>Acolos</P>

[Spider]

<P>you keep mentioning that everyone knows u and knows ur a troub </P> <P>and they wear gear specificaly to counter you </P> <P>well if thats the case and not hyperbole  then obviously troubs not as bad as u think and youve scared enuff people into wearing gear specificaly designed to counter you which puts them at a disadvanage to others </P> <P>so realy theres not much to complain about </P> <P>i mean heck if ur main damage type was disease and everyone wore all vs disease gear then u couldnt say ur class sucked because of it jsut that ur so good that people are wearing gear jsut to counter you </P> <P>id say that your own testimoney shows that troubs are far from gimped in pvp </P>

[Reptilianb]

<P>yes they do.. because the server population is so small... and when you are fame hunting on any server.. and you see smoeone on track, if you know they are fame and have fought them before, you know who/what class they are?? if you don't your not going to be prepared and you will get killed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>your not a t7 bard..</P> <P>and what you dont understand, is the bit where i said "ALL our spells are mental based"... i don't mean, jsut our DMG spells.. other classes -- e.g. Dirge.... have disease dmg .. but the debuffs are mental? I ws under the impression that spells that say "tries to confound you" are mental based spells... therefore, not only does mental resists on your enemy make you do less dmg, it also makes all your snares, mez, charm, debuffs RESIST.. </P> <P>so as i said.. anynoe with high mental resists at t7 can beat any troub..</P> <P>lvl to 70 instead of talking abut things you haven't experienced... i.e. testing forum?</P> <P>Aco</P>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reptilianboy wrote:<BR> <P>yes they do.. because the server population is so small... and when you are fame hunting on any server.. and you see smoeone on track, if you know they are fame and have fought them before, you know who/what class they are?? if you don't your not going to be prepared and you will get killed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>your not a t7 bard..</P> <P>and what you dont understand, is the bit where i said "ALL our spells are mental based"... i don't mean, jsut our DMG spells.. other classes -- e.g. Dirge.... have disease dmg .. but the debuffs are mental? I ws under the impression that spells that say "tries to confound you" are mental based spells... therefore, not only does mental resists on your enemy make you do less dmg, it also makes all your snares, mez, charm, debuffs RESIST.. </P> <P>so as i said.. anynoe with high mental resists at t7 can beat any troub..</P> <P>lvl to 70 instead of talking abut things you haven't experienced... i.e. testing forum?</P> <P>Aco</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hehe i laugh at small minded people like you sir </P> <P>you assume that because my toons u see arnt lvl 70 that i know nothign about lvl 70 pvp your no better than the raiders that think if u dont raid 6 days a week u know nothign </P> <P>i dont need to get SHOT by a gun to know it hurts </P> <P>i dont need to jump into a burning building to knwo that heat and smoke inhalation can kill you its all academic </P> <P>i know and talk to MANY teir 7 pvpers on a regualr basis and we discuss these things in great detail </P> <P>and we ahve one troub of great note on our server that is widly feared as just liek i do in my current tier he terrorizes those in tier 7 on a regular basis there are way around everythign </P> <P>most people will NO in the end have 9k mental resist and if they do u simply avoid them if need be </P> <P>and even then we can debuff mental for around 2500 or so drasticaly reducing anyones resist to mental  there are ways to do this and deal with different situation u jsut ahve to be open minded about it </P><p>Message Edited by lspiderl on <span class=date_text>01-30-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:51 PM</span>

[Reptilianb]

<P>in t7 pvp, you are dead in less than 10seconds if a brig gets on you, as with a swashy, ranger, assasin..</P> <P>if your mez resists your ded normally, if stifle misses your as good as dead, there is no time for resists/misses</P> <P>We dont have time to cast our mental/snare debuff first, because that means there gunna snare you? and when it resists 4 times in a row when they have 5k mental resists? -- ok.. you can say, well why don't you get high mental resists? well i can, but thats not gonig to help all there Melee dmging attacks, i can't boost my melee mit protection to 60-70% absorbtion and resist all their spells like they can with me?</P> <P>other scouts kill bards in seconds, but it takes us a minute or minutes to kill them (assuming they have low mental resists, liek the people in the vids i showed)</P> <P>And the earing Auditar of Silence or something.. which all fighers can use.. 25% chance to proc 9.5k mental resistance when they receive mental dmg.. very easy to get.</P> <P>So yeah... </P> <P>You can't beat scouts with highish mental resists... </P> <P>you can't beat fighers with an easy to get earing and/or high mental resists (normally run out of power, or they can just keep walking and stay ooc)</P> <P>Mages aren't so bad.. but still not easy.. because of the low dps, a wizard usualyl can get off a couple of spells.. we can mez pets tho..</P> <P>Healers - virtually impossible because they normally have high resists to begin with, and normally (unless they are nubs) the only way to wni is to kite the across norath for a lnog long time until they are out of pwoer, joustnig with power drain CA and lores.. and make sure u av bags full of cures... we dont have enuff burst dps to kill them... smoetimes you can beat nubs by using the lock down method in my previous psots, and after the mez, use PotM... because are dps is so low they can normaly handle to voleys of attacks without dying.</P> <P>So anyway... at lower tiers troubs are powerful .. but at 70 they need lots of loving..... or are you saying they don't?</P> <P>Aco</P>

[Spider]

<P>every class can use loving in a way and troubs are definatly no exception to that  </P> <P>but were not nearly as bad off as you try to make it out </P> <P>we have a 70 troub on our server that regulary takes out fighters and scouts and such ( although healers realy are our bane ) its all in how u play it </P> <P>and if ur not leading off with your snare/debuff its no wonder your complaining    as we are kings of kiting </P> <P>we can easly out kite a ranger as they have to stop to use most if not all there bow attacks while we can jsut run staying out of range and repeat casting our cast on the fly spells  . it may take longer but its highly effective </P> <P>simple max ur int and stamina </P> <P>master1 is a must on any pvp server but especialy for ur snare/debuff and ur cast on the run spells and ur cast on the run maintatined debuffs </P> <P>ive even dropped monks with ease and take down reds orngaes and yellows on a regular basis why ? because if they cant hit me they cant kill me and they will eventualy die </P> <P>we have power regen and a spell that gives us power that we only need to stop for a second to use so powes not an issue and we can make them use up power at an exponential rate which also helps </P> <P>sounds like you try way to hard to play a troub like a scout rather than play it like a lower damage caster with scout and kiteing skills </P> <P>and especialy in pvp thats what we are </P> <P>( oh and btw everything i know about pvping as a troub i LEARNED from a long time and highly successfull lvl 70 troub pvper ) </P>

[Mildavyn]

<DIV>Sorry Ispider, but i agree with the other guy. If a brig gets in melee range, you are dead within 5 seconds, you can use stun-immunity potions, it doesnt matter. 5 seconds, you're dead. Killing brigs is impossible, because they have better snares than we do and its not going to take them a minute to get into melee range. The exception is ofcourse a badly geared brig, or one who doesnt use his snares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Assasins... if they get into melee range we're dead in 2 hits, have to kite, no way around it. they also have nice snares and also a root. Very difficult to kill, but it can be done and its alot easier than killing a brig.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For rangers... why are you kiting a ranger? get in their faces, any other tacctics means you lose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For swashies... i dont think i've ever tried to kill one, but i imagine they'd be like the brigs, but with more damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>T7 PvP is alot different than t5 or t6 PvP, and no ammount of talking to someone makes up for not having done it. We really are the [Removed for Content] of T7 solo PvP.</DIV>

[Reptilianb]

<DIV>Dirges are better at kiting, we have one snare... Dirges have 2, 1 that lasts 1minute and doesn't break when they take dmg (encounter based) and one like ours except decreases disease resistance. We are supposed to be good kiters, but with one snare that breaks very easily? and most of our opponents have 1 or more of the same type of snare?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't know how you or your friend kites a ranger?? that is sure death unless the ranger is a noob, if there is one clss in the game a troub can't ktie its  a ranger... suicide... the only way to beat a ranger is make sure he can never use his bow..(like the 3 vids of Herne).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your thinking of staying at max range all the time so that you can kite things, it dosn't happen, because even if you are looknig liek your gonig to win, they will jsut run the oppoisite dierction, and/or hide behind a tree or smoething.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>again, about you taking on oranges because that can't hit you, at lower levels troubs are quite powerful, and monks have no chance, but when they are lvl 70 with 7k mental resists due to defence stance which boosts mental, and if they have the aa line which warps to you.... your dead... bruisers and monks take down troubs very fast if they get on top of you... also the monk has like a 5kish ward agasint all magical dmg.. normally kiting a monk at lvl 70 ends in death, or you runnig out of power.. and yeh, they can sprint to 70+% run speed witht he correct aas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Acolos</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: Bruisers also get Drag aswell as the warp to you aa.. so basically you can't get away from them.. and then they can break mez/charm(and i think stifle) at will... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Reptilianboy on <span class=date_text>01-31-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 AM</span>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mildavyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sorry Ispider, but i agree with the other guy. If a brig gets in melee range, you are dead within 5 seconds, you can use stun-immunity potions, it doesnt matter. 5 seconds, you're dead. Killing brigs is impossible, because they have better snares than we do and its not going to take them a minute to get into melee range. The exception is ofcourse a badly geared brig, or one who doesnt use his snares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Assasins... if they get into melee range we're dead in 2 hits, have to kite, no way around it. they also have nice snares and also a root. Very difficult to kill, but it can be done and its alot easier than killing a brig.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff><STRONG>Brigs and assasins may have snares  and such too but with aa ive got 10% incombat runspeed it more than makes up for lack in most cases</STRONG> </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>For rangers... why are you kiting a ranger? get in their faces, any other tacctics means you lose</FONT>.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6633ff><STRONG>not saying i kite rangers im saying i kite BETTER than rangers</STRONG></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For swashies... i dont think i've ever tried to kill one, but i imagine they'd be like the brigs, but with more damage.  <STRONG><FONT color=#6633ff>Swashies are cake  ive never gotten a chalange fighting one they cant even get close</FONT> </STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>T7 PvP is alot different than t5 or t6 PvP, and no ammount of talking to someone makes up for not having done it. <STRONG><FONT color=#6633ff>We really are the [Removed for Content] of T7 solo PvP.</FONT></STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>no that would be wizzies that have to worry about resist a lot more then us have less armor than us and dont have melee as a back up damage and cant cast on the fly </P> <P> ill gladly stick with my troub </P> <P>does that mean i dont think it could use a boost ? no   im sure it could i know that damage on some spells and the stats on some buffs and debuffs ont scale like they should and fixing that would be great </P> <P>but it still doesnt mean were [Removed for Content]  not by a long shot <BR></P>

[Reptilianb]

<DIV>T7 T7 T7</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also.. how did u get 10% in combat runspeed? i thought i was on 6%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You dont kite better than a good t7 ranger, or at least you can't stay at range as good as one.. they can root, and snare (think they have 2?), trap, uber dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Swashys are cake ish at low lvls.. at lvl 70, if they have inspiration/enguard on.. and they get close to you for like 2seconds, you are dead.. and then they have reach aa, which allows them to use combat abilties at double the distance, so if u r trying to run away they are doing all there biggest backstab attacks on you, then they can snare you with a throwing skil for 10secs, then stick on 2 more snares.. so you are basically dead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Acolos</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mentla]

Yes, I made many of the same arguments you did but trust me, it happens around level 50-54  -  suddenly you suck.  A lot.Up until 55 all my spells were Adp III or higher, 90% master at least, and I wouldn't run from anything solo lower than an orange.  You'll just have to trust us that it changes and be happy.Quite a few troobs advised me to lock lower a few months back.  If it wasn't for a troobs raid utility I would have.<div></div>

[Reptilianb]

<p>u can't cheapshot and shield bash... ty dankshasta</p><p>so skip the shield bash and save for emergency <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[loveybutt]

<cite>Mentla wrote:</cite><blockquote>How often does stifle land for you?  I never seem to get much benifit from it.  Quallity of arrow shouldn't effect CAs but I think it may... </blockquote> hmm well baudkin crafted arrows are supposed to help land better..but yeah i'm not sure if thats just auto attack or if that effects combat arts..I've read from people saying it does so who knows..you could always try getting a stack of baudkin (sp) arrows and rolling around for awhile and see if ya notice any difference. hobs

[loveybutt]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote> <hr /> Reptilianboy wrote: <p>yes they do.. because the server population is so small... and when you are fame hunting on any server.. and you see smoeone on track, if you know they are fame and have fought them before, you know who/what class they are?? if you don't your not going to be prepared and you will get killed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>your not a t7 bard..</p> <p>and what you dont understand, is the bit where i said "ALL our spells are mental based"... i don't mean, jsut our DMG spells.. other classes -- e.g. Dirge.... have disease dmg .. but the debuffs are mental? I ws under the impression that spells that say "tries to confound you" are mental based spells... therefore, not only does mental resists on your enemy make you do less dmg, it also makes all your snares, mez, charm, debuffs RESIST.. </p> <p>so as i said.. anynoe with high mental resists at t7 can beat any troub..</p> <p>lvl to 70 instead of talking abut things you haven't experienced... i.e. testing forum?</p> <p>Aco</p> <hr /> </blockquote> <p> hehe i laugh at small minded people like you sir </p> <p>you assume that because my toons u see arnt lvl 70 that i know nothign about lvl 70 pvp your no better than the raiders that think if u dont raid 6 days a week u know nothign </p> <p>i dont need to get SHOT by a gun to know it hurts </p> <p>i dont need to jump into a burning building to knwo that heat and smoke inhalation can kill you its all academic </p> <p>i know and talk to MANY teir 7 pvpers on a regualr basis and we discuss these things in great detail </p> <p>and we ahve one troub of great note on our server that is widly feared as just liek i do in my current tier he terrorizes those in tier 7 on a regular basis there are way around everythign </p> <p>most people will NO in the end have 9k mental resist and if they do u simply avoid them if need be </p> <p>and even then we can debuff mental for around 2500 or so drasticaly reducing anyones resist to mental  there are ways to do this and deal with different situation u jsut ahve to be open minded about it </p><p>Message Edited by lspiderl on 01-30-2007 04:51 PM</blockquote> </p> <p>ahhh master snare.. I remember when i got my snares mastered i was like wooo yeah! look at that debuff.. but then i tried opening with it for awhile..and it got resisted way to often to bother.. and even then the only time it was really effective was against some plate tanks (seeing as how most scouts have equal or better snares then me.. so now I try and open with some burst damage (if i get the jump), stifle..and if it lands more damage..then try and mezz (i run my group buff that buffs subjugation).. debuff with the non-damage debuff, and when im getting ready to break the mezz, debuff their defence, jesters cap,  and cast snare as many times as it takes until it lands.. if stifles up again ill break mezz with that and zap away...  what i actually like to do on some classes, when my good zappies are down, is kite, then run into them spamming my evade and stun..and do some of the combat arts up close..i usually manage to get my stun off before them..then continue kiting.. </p> <p>lets see..what else to blabber on about.. </p> <p>Oh bruisers.. i hate fighting bruisers; they have some kind of mental cure that they can cast while mezzed taht makes it that much harder to fight em..then they drag and crap.. </p> <p> aaanyway.. troubs are [Removed for Content] in pvp, pallys are gayer... </p> <p>azuresong! hows it going..havent seen ya around much except on my pally... then i die.. </p> <p> hobs, troub of exodus silllk, pally of exodus </p>