We are a group utility class first! Remember this and you'll be more happy

[DankShasta]

<DIV>  I love my Troubador first of all! I got about 4000 kills on him, Dankshasta on Nagafen lvl 45 General. I've played around with a bunch of alts and I gotta say they have all been better at dispatching my foes than the Troubador. I used to solo tons, I'm sure I have 2000 solo kills, and if there is a Troubador with more solos than that I'd be surprised, But now I prefer rolling with one certain fury, or two fury's, and of course we have a ganksquad. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Here's the thing, we are made to buff a group. We are Troubadors, and I promise nobody can do what you can do.  At any tier past t3 the other scouts have more dps, more mit, better snares, real Aoes, they are better warriors alone, top to bottom.  It's easy to see this and write off the PvPing troubador, but that is when they are alone. </DIV> <DIV>   At t5 the other scouts debuff better, but it's one target. We debuff Wis, Agi,Str, for whole groups! The damage on our Dot sux, but is for the WHOLE GROUP, and it debuffs THE WHOLE GROUP ENCOUNTER. We buff the WHOLE GROUP like no other scout. We increase the effectiveness and damage GREATLY for..... are you ready for this, THE WHOLE GROUP. There is nothing like adding a Troubador to a group with two fury's and a couple casters, or even 2 furys and 1 warlock. If you ask my group if they want another brigand, the so-called best PvP class, to replace my troubador in group, they woulod laugh at you. Another assasin? Yeah right!</DIV> <DIV>  </DIV> <DIV>  Some of you have the wrong expectations about the class, it is never gonna be the 1v1 juggernaut, that a well geared Fury, or Brig is. You've got little samples of everything, but nothing that stands out as great. You can Aoe nuke, but it does a third the damage as a real nuker, (but has a nice group interupt, you can time with your bellow, shield bash, and cheap shot, to keep enemy casters quiet!) You got some stealth attacks , but nothing like assasin, back stab, weak compared to swashy, mez, coercer's mez is SO MUCH BETTER!  Encounter DOTS, but they only tick every 6 seconds, so not tons of dmg.  My Mitigation is 1970 at lvl 46, which is good, but a Brigand can get that at my level in OFFENSIVE MODE!!</DIV> <DIV>   Solo your like a gimped caster with great armor, really thats about it! I mean we play alittle guitar? What makes people think we should be out rolling berserkers solo? Well I do it:smileywink:, but most troubs dont!</DIV> <DIV>  Remeber every group whether PvP or PvE should have a Troubador. You'll never need two, as one will put the best buffs and debuffs out there, and a second slot would be better used for almost any other class. One troubador per group, and you'll see a huge difference in parse! Not just in dmg taken, but in dmg recieved as well. Our buffs are healer good, and in larger groups are added DPS is more than another scout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  I guess the point of this is if you want to be a good Troubador, you'll want to find a couple good players, or at least a good Fury to Duo with. I still get solos all the time, but I seldom go out roaming solo anymore. It just doesnt prove anything! When you win it is great, and I've killed plenty of solo Swashies, Rangers, and Monks. Just a few days ago I flattened a 49 Swashy, but if he had been fifty, and had the fifty DD spell I would not have took that fight. It just doesnt prove anything. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>A Troubador should be judged by the success of his group, as much, or more, than by his personal success. Know this when you roll a troubador!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=5>Good luck my little Troublets!!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ski]

Do you get chaffed from all the self ego-stroking you do on these boards? <div></div>

[BadManHip]

<DIV>LoL i think your a forgetting a few things, like you and justinknell(the fury, his name looks sumtin like this) are full fabled, and fulll mastered,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but still you guys are amazing and whenever i see you two roaming around my heart swells with pride for the Troubadour class</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>keep it up boys</DIV>

[Lachlan]

<div></div>Dankshasta,I'm glad you've found your happy place.  No doubt to the truth of your arguement, Troubs are group buffers and in PvP we are perhaps the least effective solo class you could choose.  Troubs are best in a full group, smaller groups and Troubs deliver less. To a lesser degree it's true of our opponents too, we debuff everyone in a group.  I don't think anyone would argue with those points.Here's the question:   Does the troubador deliver so much to large groups and raids to justify how badly it ranks as a soloist?  In Duo's? (btw, anyone is good Duo'd with a Fury, but anyone with more dps is better than a Troub .)Other classes have a bigger impact on a pvp group's performance yet they don't lack from a Troub's comparitively low performance in solo/duo situations; Fury's are great healers and lift group dps yet they are fine solo PvP'ers; Bridgand dispatch allows a smart group focus firing to execute an opposing groups healer or big dps threat then take the others at their leasure, solo they are the gank leaders.  If you want to tout the value of our DOT, Kian's Catastrophic Anthem, because it effects "the whole group" I take issue with that.  PvP is about big burst damage first with some supporting abilities like roots, taunts, fast heals, stuns being the other big component.  Most PvP encounters are over long before Kian's, a dot for around 100 dmg/6 sec and a modest wisdom debuff will ever cause any pain to your opponents full group or not.  Our bellow group interupt I would not call "nice"; after an opponent loses a resist check against the spell it only has a 35% chance to work (you can up that a little with AA's).  I wish Decap only had a 35% chance to work on me after I failed to avoid it.  These abilities could use some work to be considered great group pvp songs.Below level 45 pvp isn't so bad but as with many areas of the game Bard abilities do not scale up in T5-T7 content.   It's apparent in PvE play and it's painfully apparent in PvP.  The past year of SoE LU's decreasing Aria's buff, effectively removing pets, limiting mez, shortening the stiffle from Guviena's Ovation have taken away much from the Troub, now we cannot even Evac our group out of combat once every 15 minutes (granted no one else can either).  We also have a debuff that's been broken since the Spitpaw adven pack, a debuff actually _adding_ to your oppenent's resistances.  You can play the class and do some nice things with groups, be effective in raids and have some fun with mez/charm (I have 2700+ kills on Naggy with my Troub who's an exiled level 70) but we are not just poor soloists and the least played class on any PvP server.   I could probably accept how Troubs were if things had stayed the same as they were in February when the servers opened but it's been a steady decline in what we can do since then.  The Dev's reworked the entire combat system to lift of caster classes, all many Bards are asking for is to scale up some abilities, i.e., buffs, dps, debuffs, run speed, within the existing framework to bring it closer to the other classes.  Making the point that we should be judged on how our groups do seems to be setting a low bar for what any class should be capable of doing in PvP.  You could also judge the class just on how it does before facing level 50+ PvP opponents but I don't find the argument compelling.Lachlan70 Troubador - Nagafen<div></div>

[Cuz]

<P>I knew I was making a support class. I didn`t know I was making one that was this boring...</P>

[DankShasta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lachlan wrote:<BR> Dankshasta,<BR><BR>Other classes have a bigger impact on a pvp group's performance yet they don't lack from a Troub's comparitively low performance in solo/duo situations; Fury's are great healers and lift group dps yet they are fine solo PvP'ers; Bridgand dispatch allows a smart group focus firing to execute an opposing groups healer or big dps threat then take the others at their leasure, solo they are the gank leaders.  <BR><BR>If you want to tout the value of our DOT, Kian's Catastrophic Anthem, because it effects "the whole group" I take issue with that.  PvP is about big burst damage first with some supporting abilities like roots, taunts, fast heals, stuns being the other big component.  Most PvP encounters are over long before Kian's, a dot for around 100 dmg/6 sec and a modest wisdom debuff will ever cause any pain to your opponents full group or not.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Very good post! I agree with you in almost everyway with the exception of the above items. Firstly I play t5 so the dmg drop off to another scout isnt that drastic and is nonexistist in some heroic encounters. Your dead wrong about Kian's too, it is worth it. In group PvP 50 47 wis is decent debuff it is a minute long and it does 15dps per encounter member, so in PvP 90dps with a debuff. What else? The cast is super fast, can be launched on the move, and since it lasts a minute it is grat for a 6v6 PvP encounter with well healed opponent. </P> <P>    The fury duo is another one where your wrong. My fury would rather roll with a Troubador, for the focus, procs, defense! The dps I loseto a t5 brig, or assasin,  is more than made up for by his increased effectiveness, and the increased survivalibilty is bonus. Fury /Troubador is the Pwnzor!!</P> <P>    I'm looking forward to the rumoured bard changes, I hear we are geting dps soon? Anyway if we do that will just be gravy for me, cuz I have a good understanding of the class and what I CAN'T DO! Give us a couple bones and I will be off the chain:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Kilnger]

If any healer had to choose a scout to duo with troubadour would be the best pick simply because of dove song. Dove song is by and far one of the most powerful things in PVP and should be a staple song run by any troubadour in any group while PVPing (short of those without healers or casters, in which case what the heck are you killing?). Stifle, charm, and mez give the healers some breathing space and the duo would be very much built around surviving (or heck, if you're with a fury or warden, obliterating the enemy). Kian's is a very, very weak debuff in PVP, simply because it functions as any bard debuff does. Against a smart healer, one cure will remove it from the ENTIRE group. No, not a group cure, a single cure. Admittedly, this is easy to circumvent by layering some other debuff on top (cough cough, Zander's), and forcing the healer to repeatedly cure to get it off.<div></div>

[Shiine]

Im playing Troubador atm, I am a Level 16 Fae.First off, I do intend to group a lot in the future but I really want to solo at first. By 'at first', i mean for like 60 levels lol.So I was wondering if it is possible to tailor the character to a solo type and then 'respec' (is this possible) to group orientated later. I.e. I have 9 AAs atm, what should I put them in for solo and what for groups? Which are the best? Bard Tree or Troubaor Tree etc ?Thanks!Also can anyone point the way to a guide that tells me which Spells/Abilities are best to upgrade to adept 1's and which spells I can upgrade to Masters at 24...34 etc?I dont want to waste money buying a hugely expensive 5 gold adept book for an ability I end up gettign replaced.<div></div>

[Spider]

<P>tbh your wrong </P> <P>while every thing u said about troubs in groups is spot on were no where near as bad solo </P> <P>our weakness is our str </P> <P>were versitle and can andle most any situation not to mention on unparelled kitting ability </P> <P>heck last night i dropped a 53 monk twink  on mty 43 troub .... took about 2 full min but i got em </P> <P>why ? well because i kited the crap out of him of course  he hit me only 3 times the whole fight </P> <P>i kept him locked with snares and let me bow and songs do the talking </P> <P>max int ( w/o totaly neglecting str )  and master your songs  and you can kite lik eno one else </P>

[Blakeavon]

only problem with this title is that slowly devs have whittled down the amount of utilities we have/mourn mana sucking/mourn charm/mourn our ever out of date run speed buffhell even in most groups im in on AB wouldnt know what a bard is for, EG tank body pulls a yellow ^^^ gets another yellow ^^^, i go "mezzed the add we are cool", breaks mezz, tanks health goes down really fast, finally mezz is left unbroken, then get third add, WIPEOUT... lol everyday, the problem with class like ours the uber tanks all think "great we have a bard along" but fail to understand that we arent just a passive buff-bot. troubie arrives and might as well stand in the corner. and if any troubs here think thats all we are *shakes head*its just a shame that our solo play has slipped so sub-par. im not a powergamer, dont raid if i can help it...but always tries to do the big group thing. i have all masters and adept3's with rare and few legendary armour peices, everyother bit of kit i have is rare quality. now i have been playing for over 2 years now but i can barely kill a blue ^ where as my fury can kill 3 yellow ^ in a row. everytime i can do that as my fury i think, we bards seriously need work. NOT JUST FOR THE END GAME PLAYERS, as most of the people seem to think are the only ones that matter.if you enjoy raiding .. great. but if they can tget solo fighting, then grouping for the lvl s1-69 right first.<div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blakeavon wrote:<BR>only problem with this title is that slowly devs have whittled down the amount of utilities we have<BR><BR>/mourn mana sucking<BR>/mourn charm<BR>/mourn our ever out of date run speed buff<BR><BR>hell even in most groups im in on AB wouldnt know what a bard is for, <BR><BR>EG tank body pulls a yellow ^^^ gets another yellow ^^^, i go "mezzed the add we are cool", breaks mezz, tanks health goes down really fast, finally mezz is left unbroken, then get third add, WIPEOUT... lol everyday, the problem with class like ours the uber tanks all think "great we have a bard along" but fail to understand that we arent just a passive buff-bot. troubie arrives and might as well stand in the corner. and if any troubs here think thats all we are *shakes head*<BR><BR>its just a shame that our solo play has slipped so sub-par. im not a powergamer, dont raid if i can help it...but always tries to do the big group thing. i have all masters and adept3's with rare and few legendary armour peices, everyother bit of kit i have is rare quality. now i have been playing for over 2 years now but i can barely kill a blue ^ where as my fury can kill 3 yellow ^ in a row. everytime i can do that as my fury i think, we bards seriously need work. <BR>NOT JUST FOR THE END GAME PLAYERS, as most of the people seem to think are the only ones that matter.<BR><BR><BR>if you enjoy raiding .. great. but if they can tget solo fighting, then grouping for the lvl s1-69 right first.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>how is your gear stat wise because legendary tells me nothing </P> <P>i personaly can and do take ^^ and ^^^ grens and blues with virtual ease and a little kiting and ive een soloed green and now blue ^^^ names  </P> <P>but im geared like a caster with scout skills rather than a scout and most legendary stuff seems more set for scouts </P>

[DankShasta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>i personaly can and do take ^^ and ^^^ grens and blues with virtual ease and a little kiting and ive een soloed green and now blue ^^^ names  </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yeah but we all know it takes you forever, we all go thru it, stop trying to front:smileywink:

[Mentla]

Dank, not sure if I've said this to you directly but never EVER level your troob up.  They suck so bad in T7 you'll probably delete it.