Some good news

[Cynnigig]

<DIV>Just wanted to point you towards two dev comments:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=69092#M69092" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=69092#M69092</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"I'm looking at bard gameplay as a whole to look at boosting other areas, that will certainly more than make up for another strength buff."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=114184#M114184" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=114184#M114184</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zander's is finally being looked into.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not all is lost...</DIV>

[thorvang]

that's unbelievable. two responses from different devs on the same day to two different bard issues.... woot!

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>that's unbelievable. two responses from different devs on the same day to two different bard issues.... woot!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The whole system broke the next day. Coincidence? Yeah, I don't think so either.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jeger_Wulf]

I'll believe good news when I see actual changes. Frankly, it's going to be hard to make the troubadour as fun as it used to be. Until I actually see something, Jeger is on the shelf.

[Thrashercat]

We can only hope that the devs have some chirstmas spirit and bestow on us some long awaited gifts of love in the form of dps, and fun factor<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Keyh]

At least they have acknowledge that bards are still in the game.

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keyh wrote:<BR>At least they have acknowledge that bards are still in the game.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] we are?

[Emerix]

<DIV>Am i the only one who enjoys playing a Troubador ? I dont get why people complain . we can solo level 70 heroic nameds >.<</DIV>

[Cynnigig]

<DIV>No, you're not. I love playing my troubadour. It is the perfect class for me, I can't bring myself to consistently play any of my twinks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe it is in the nature of us troubadours to be a bit melodramatic. When they changed the control spells, it was really bad (in hindsight I think the change to our charm was a good thing and I really enjoy using the new charm and I use it a lot).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Having said that, there are bugs concerning our class and there are things, which I would like to see changed/improved. But these are the legitimate concerns each and every class has. Fixing this or that bug, maybe giving us some increased buffs, adding some personal dps - this will not greatly change the troubadour. Certainly not changes, which will bring those back, who have put their trouabadour on hold. I personally would rather like to see small improvements than big changes, we have had enough of those in our past.</DIV>

[Cuz]

<DIV>I just find them boring to play. The "coolest" thing I can do is mezz and regen. Not exactly thrilling.</DIV>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>> Am i the only one who enjoys playing a Troubador ? </P> <P>No, you're not. You are just one of a few. Troubadours are now the least played class and falling (they used to be the third least played class.) I am glad you have fun, but mine has been on the shelf. I find my alts much more fun. Soon, one of my alts will be my main, and Jeger will be an alt.</P>

[Cynnigig]

<DIV>What is so fun about other classes, in comparison to a troubadour? With the exception of a coercer, I find them to be quite one-dimensional. Especially pure dps classes bore me, there is not much to do.</DIV>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>I find not much to do with the troubadour. You can try to DPS, but you know you're not really doing much. You can make sure all your buffs are running, but that only happens at the start of the play session. Charm and Mez I don't find worthwile using at my level. However, fo my alts:</P> <P>My necro has a number of DPS spells to land (and unlike the troub they actually have a positive affect.) He heals his pet when necessary. He heals group members when the healer could use help. He taps the mob for life when needed. He also has some buffs to run.</P> <P>My swashbuckler has a large number of combat arts to juggle.  He runs from front to back of the mob trying to get them all off. He has a stun he uses if the tank gets a couple big hits. He has a couple Aoe/encounter arts he can decide when to use. The big thing with him is he does REAL dps when I do my job right. He also has buffs to run.</P> <P>I guess it's personal taste. Evidentally, not many people like what the troub has to offer, though.</P>

[VericSauvari]

from the dec 12th house of stratics dev chat:<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size="2"><font color="#0000a0"><b>Preston -</b></font> *Kurai* Recent additions have withthe Achievement system in EoF have enabled several calls it equal or exceed Bard run speed at earlier levels and with far less AA cost. Originally our selo's lvl 55 upgrade was removed in DoF beta due to being too fast for the game. With the top run speeds achievable by classes far exceeding that have you considered relooking at this decision or coming up with another solution to bards losing out on run speed? <font color="#800000"><b>Dymus -</b></font> We're taking a look at the bard classes currently, in specific their run speed abilities, but also several other aspects of the classes to make sure that they are where they should be. I'm sorry I can't be specific on it right now but more detail will be forthcoming soon. </font><div></div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>VericSauvari wrote:<BR>from the dec 12th house of stratics dev chat:<BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2><FONT color=#800000><B></B></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2><FONT color=#800000><B>Dymus -</B></FONT> <FONT color=#ff0000>We're taking a look at the bard classes currently</FONT>, <STRONG>in specific their run speed abilities,</STRONG> but also several other aspects of the classes to make sure that they are where they should be. I'm sorry I can't be specific on it right now but more detail will be forthcoming soon. </FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm sure I should be really happy about the red highlighted portion, but it's the bolded bit that just messes it up.  Yes, I am all about increasing our run speed... but surely we have some BIGGER issues like spells scaling properly, our self buff with no stances, our crap debuffs and dps, etc, etc.</P> <P>I know that the bard community as a whole came out of the woodwork for the runspeed issue so that maybe doubled our voices, but it really would be a lot nicer to know that was just badly worded and what he meant to say was:</P> <P>'We're taking a look at the bard classes currently to make sure they are where they should be, including their run speed abilities.'  Runspeed wouldn't be the final thing we were complaining about if they hadn't taken everything else away!</P> <P>In response to the question about why doesn't anyone like their Troubador:</P> <P>And I LOVE my troubador, but after all the mini nerfs over the past few years (we haven't gotten one pleasant change since LU13), my level 70 fabled and mastered troub isn't any better than she was before, when she wasn't fabled and mastered out... in fact, her dps and contribution has gone down... so while I still love her, and I still play her, she is definitely not where she should be and all bards deserve to be given a whole lot of loving.</P> <P>There are so few of us for a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good reason, and they need to look at that. I don't want to be the new FoTM class, but there are very few who make it past 40 or 50... and then even fewer who have continued to stick it out until now. Maybe your troub is new and so you don't know what we've lost so you can't miss it, and that's great for you... but some of us have been asking for small changes for the better for a really long time!<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class=date_text>12-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:54 PM</span>

[Jordinn]

<P>With all due respect and honor to EQ1 bards and such, *&^% run speed.  I want real utility function, not just fast running shoes.  Now don't get me wrong, I like run speed and think we should up there with the best of them.  But honestly if all you can ask for on a bard is run speed you are missing the boat big time on all the other areas we need help.</P> <P>Our DPS is poor, we don't get stances, no poisons, we essentially are used to provide hate reduction and power regen but our overall ability to use player skill to effect group or raid situations is minimal at best.  </P> <P>Run Speed is fine, but for the love of pete if they are going to look at bards then we as bards should ask them to really dig in and fix the class, not just placate a bunch of loud mouthed ex-eq1 bards who whine that we aren't fastest anymore.</P> <P>There is a mulit-page comprehensive listing of issues troubadors and bards in general have generated.  Please use that as the platform we use to appraoch the devs and ask for improvements, not just more "make us faster" junk.</P> <P>/rant off</P>

[WooTast]

Hate reduction and regen - two passive abilities.  The raid troubador may as well be played on a second box and set to auto-follow.  This is why I've not played for a few months now; raids were me watching the game out of one eye and surfing the net on my nearby laptop.  The pure drudgery drove me into "retirement."I know that the raid party needs a troub, but it's boring as &$^&# to play.  My guild had two raiding troubs; one quit to play another class and I stopped playing entirely.  And from the sounds of it, I'm far from alone.<div></div>

[Cynnigig]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WooTastic wrote:<BR>Hate reduction and regen - two passive abilities.  The raid troubador may as well be played on a second box and set to auto-follow.  This is why I've not played for a few months now; raids were me watching the game out of one eye and surfing the net on my nearby laptop. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>With how many classes have you worked out a routine for giving them Jester's? Do you coordinate PotM with shortbuffs of other classes? Do you keep an eye on aoe timers to save you group's life with aoe immunity? Do you consistently keep up all your debuffs during the whole fight? And still manage to keep your personal dps at over 500?</P> <P>Maybe I'm not that good of a troubadour, but doing all this keeps me quite busy. Luckily I enjoy this multi-tasking playstyle. And there is still room for improvement.<BR></P> <P>P.S. I've been playing my troubadour since October 2005, so I don't know what it was like in the "old days".</P>

[thorvang]

the "old" days have been even worse, but we - the troubs - felt more important. prior to dof release the defense skill has been highly overpowered, +5 defense would make your defense actually one level higher. as soon as the mob cons "grey" to your effective defense level it won't hit you anymore (heroics, not epics, those just has a harder time to hit the tank), 100% avoidance for tanks has been possible. lots of the t5 raids have been cakewalk with the mt being able to grab ALL mobs (adds are heroic, even with the epic tag on them) plus the boss.and this has been made possible by but one class: troubadour.and there has been a "problem" with troub buffs. they generated more aggro than anything else ingame. just recast your main buff (swan song) two or three times and you generated so much aggro, not even rescue would get the mobs off you. neat for tanking <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />so with dof SOE introduced a needed nerf. defense buffs have been way overpowered. i tanked some of the easier epics as angler and the permafrost king without any problem with my troub, don't even got hit.the problem is, they didn't changed the defense buffs to some other defense buff. they changed it to offensive buffs for casters. so the troub class changed from mt buffer to caster buffer. i needed quite some time to get used to this.in groups and solo play we kept some utilty. mezz has been great, mezzing three or four mobs hasn't been a problem. and we got a boost to our charm. it lasts for up to 7,5 minutes, giving us a rather relyable pet.mezz and charm got severly nerfed with some later patch. you know the timers <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />so from being the invulnerable main buffer, essential for every raid, we got changed to a nice addition but no requirement. and further on our left utility got nerfed, nerfed and nerfed again.tossing out jester's and using our one-shot-per-fight AoE prevention AA is a no brainer. and potm? just hit it as soon as it's up. maybe combine it with a gsay macro when it's up. the time of stream of arrows + potm = win is gone.what's basically left is concentrating on dps. that's it. this can't be ment serious. i don't play a troub to be a DD. i want an active supporting role. or at least some buffs that are so powerful (not overpowered) they make up for the passive role. but the only troub buffs that have some real impact are the deaggro song and regen to some degree.SOE did a good job at making the troub a jack of all trades, but the master of none part is too obvious to make the class fun to play on raids.

[Nightt N'D]

Bards should be able to group buff run speed up to that of the fastest mount. :smileysurprised:

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nightt N'Day wrote:<BR> Bards should be able to group buff run speed up to that of the fastest mount. :smileysurprised:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>prior to aa lol

[Antipalad]

Don't be too cheery, last time we got "Looked into" we got a whole slew of nerfs in one go.

[Glamourpuss]

<P>Not holding my breath for anything great either from the devs "looking into bard gameplay".  I weathered nerf after nerf like so many others, tried to ignore my growing realisation that I just wasn't enjoying playing my troub anymore, but...</P> <P>Well, Sash has lost her voice, is retired, and only comes out for special occasions.  Sort of like Julie Andrews.</P> <P>My suspicion is that the other classes have so many buffs and utility stuff of their own (in most cases exceeding ours) that adding our buffs and utility stuff <EM>on top of theirs</EM> becomes game breaking.  I think that's why we continually get nerfed.  I think the combined weight of the hate and anger the devs would receive if they nerfed the other classes to make us a necessary class/addition to a group would be "dev breaking".  That's why I'm not holding my breath.</P>

[ReturnOfMadness]

i just want my pre dof buffs back than i will be happy, that and decent runspeed or that runspeed song that gave alot of runspeed+groupinvis+a few other things i forgot for 5 conc <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Glamourpuss wrote:<BR> <P>Not holding my breath for anything great either from the devs "looking into bard gameplay".  I weathered nerf after nerf like so many others, tried to ignore my growing realisation that I just wasn't enjoying playing my troub anymore, but...</P> <P>Well, Sash has lost her voice, is retired, and only comes out for special occasions.  Sort of like Julie Andrews.</P> <P>My suspicion is that the other classes have so many buffs and utility stuff of their own (in most cases exceeding ours) that adding our buffs and utility stuff <EM>on top of theirs</EM> becomes game breaking.  I think that's why we continually get nerfed.  I think the combined weight of the hate and anger the devs would receive if they nerfed the other classes to make us a necessary class/addition to a group would be "dev breaking".  That's why I'm not holding my breath.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>personaly id just like to see us get our speed fixed and get some small boosts like personal buff not taking conc slot and maybie a few small damage boosts to a skill or 2

[BadManHip]

fix in our speed buff would b nice but isnt a main priority, ive been playin a troub since release date, though i put my 70 on the shelf and ended up givin that acct to a friend. recently restarted playing and well, i got to say, the troub class now, cant even be called a Troubadour anymore, someone needs to think up a better name that suits us, because bard and troub are so inaccurate now its not funny.

[Spider]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BadManHippo wrote:<BR> fix in our speed buff would b nice but isnt a main priority, ive been playin a troub since release date, though i put my 70 on the shelf and ended up givin that acct to a friend. recently restarted playing and well, i got to say, the troub class now, cant even be called a Troubadour anymore, someone needs to think up a better name that suits us, because bard and troub are so inaccurate now its not funny.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>if you say so bud but personaly while some minor changes would be nice a great many of us are quite enjoying our troubs   </P> <P>sorry that your not </P>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BadManHippo wrote:<BR> fix in our speed buff would b nice but isnt a main priority, ive been playin a troub since release date, though i put my 70 on the shelf and ended up givin that acct to a friend. recently restarted playing and well, i got to say, the troub class now, cant even be called a Troubadour anymore, someone needs to think up a better name that suits us, because bard and troub are so inaccurate now its not funny.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>if you say so bud but personaly while some minor changes would be nice a great many of us are quite enjoying our troubs   </P> <P>sorry that your not </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Most of the troubs that I remember as the community leaders are either no longer playing troubs or just no longer playing the game.

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>> Most of the troubs that I remember as the community leaders are <BR>> either no longer playing troubs or just no longer playing the game. </P> <P>Yep. Of those I remember, only you and Jaimster ever show up any more. Oh well, it's a new era, I guess.</P>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mbolme wrote:<BR> <P>> Most of the troubs that I remember as the community leaders are <BR>> either no longer playing troubs or just no longer playing the game. </P> <P>Yep. Of those I remember, only you and Jaimster ever show up any more. Oh well, it's a new era, I guess.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haha thanks, but I shouldn't be put in with the other ones, they have contributed more than I ever could  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Killerbee3000]

i'm really scared to hell if the dev's say they will have a look in trouby's.........just make our int buff group wide... put the stats we need on the fabled set.....give us 2-3 more short duration buffs like jesters...... let us use poisons..... and push all our buffs by approx 25%......<div></div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mbolme wrote:<BR> <P>> Most of the troubs that I remember as the community leaders are <BR>> either no longer playing troubs or just no longer playing the game. </P> <P>Yep. Of those I remember, only you and Jaimster ever show up any more. Oh well, it's a new era, I guess.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yep <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You two are it that I still see too... and it puts a smile on my face <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I used to be hopelessly optimistic about where Troubs were being taken in game. And then I got really angry about it. Now... detached is probably a good word to use... Either I won't enjoy playing anymore, or I will... and if/when I stop enjoying the game, I'll stop paying to play it... but by then it won't be the game or the character I'll miss as much as the people behind the toons.</P>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>You might want to consider trying a Necromancer, Jaimster. It has a lot of the positive qualities that I used to see in troubadours. They have lots of utility. I love knocking off critical heals and saving the group, while still doing great DPS.</P> <P> </P>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mbolme wrote:<BR> <P>You might want to consider trying a Necromancer, Jaimster. It has a lot of the positive qualities that I used to see in troubadours. They have lots of utility. I love knocking off critical heals and saving the group, while still doing great DPS.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Thanks! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I actually took 8 AA's in our 1 minute single target heal on my conj... that coupled with expiation and I can sometimes save the day for long enough for the healer(s) to really save it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That and the whole do great dps thing is fun;P<BR></P>

[Mentla]

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Glamourpuss wrote: <div></div> <p>Not holding my breath for anything great either from the devs "looking into bard gameplay".  I weathered nerf after nerf like so many others, tried to ignore my growing realisation that I just wasn't enjoying playing my troub anymore, but...</p> <p>Well, Sash has lost her voice, is retired, and only comes out for special occasions.  Sort of like Julie Andrews.</p> <p>My suspicion is that the other classes have so many buffs and utility stuff of their own (in most cases exceeding ours) that adding our buffs and utility stuff <em>on top of theirs</em> becomes game breaking.  I think that's why we continually get nerfed.  I think the combined weight of the hate and anger the devs would receive if they nerfed the other classes to make us a necessary class/addition to a group would be "dev breaking".  That's why I'm not holding my breath.</p> <hr> </blockquote>personaly id just like to see us get our speed fixed and get some small boosts like personal buff not taking conc slot and maybie a few small damage boosts to a skill or 2<hr></blockquote>Speed is getting my down in PvP tbh.  Charming healers while I tune their group is fun though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Krescendo]

<P>Hmm, I enjoy my troub.  The speed buff does have true utility in PvE, allowing you to attempt things you wouldn't otherwise. In PvP, well, its pretty big. I'm not for making changes just for PvP, but darn sure it would affect my survivability, utility and playability.</P> <P>I'm locked at 42, so I can't speak for troubador play post that, but the AA's for charm reducing resists and increasing duration have made a significant impact on my PvP play and enhanced PvE (I actually use it to some good now). Increase it a bit more and/or reduce the recast timer and I'd have a unique worthwhile ability that added a fun, usuable attribute. At least thats my take on my bard at 42. Allow me to mez one and charm one, and run a but faster and I wouldn't need any thing else.</P> <P>In all honesty, I'd be happy if you combined dirge/troub and all abilities and just make it a difficult decision on what to choose.</P> <P>We'll, I'm a whiney EQ1 bard, so I'd also be happy running faster than anyone else (with lev).......</P> <P> </P>

[Spider]

my biggest item id like to see besides fixing our runspeed is simply making our self buff no conc slot but keep it exactly liek it is  it would be no different than giving us stances only we only have one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />