Here it goes again : ideas and no ranting [Archive]

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Tri

11-07-2006, 07:11 PM

<div></div>First of all, the spelling of the class name : Troubadour !Bard Stealth - every stealth / invis ability in this game has an added effect to themthere used to be one for bards to, just as the in game skill description says.Either reintroduce that enhanced speed or add something else, anything.Worst case scenario and unbalancing change , at least change the description.Twisting - it was stated twisting will not be introduced in the gamebut if you want to attain decent dps as a troubador your button smashingreally, really, REALLY, reminds me of twisting.Up the damage on spells as well as recast timers?This will lower dps as bards rely heavily on procs and HOs to get every bit of added dps,but i am still in favor of it as i know that when my wrist is not hurting i am slacking.Buffs and debuffs - Dull and weak is what they arethe resist songs add less then a mastercrafted resist item, and use a conc slotHaste spells are being slightly raised with the cap raise, but this is still too low. 26% master 1 lvl 70Skills buffs, we will see how these work in EoFThe power drain of the debuffs is an awfull "effect versus power" ratio.Self buff - as always uses a conc slot, too many buffs to choose from, none is free.seeing all the one target limited buffs this feels wierd.Stances - with EoF, having the defensive stance on will raise even more your miti.If the encounters are balanced to take this in account bards will not benefitfrom this new ( nice IMO ) idea.Thus sending back to the weakness of the self buff.Mez - this one deserves a laugh, the previous changes were not needed, but new AAsare here to allow you to keep two mobs mezed.I hate the take and give back procedure, but at least the reuse could be lowered by 1 sec per point too.A lot of players with whom i play laughed with me about the mez changes to troub.Back before DoF i was hoping for an encounter mez, i really got that one wrong :smileysurprised:Power regen if it s true the spell is losing the 5 points that the AAs can give backthis is total "words not used here because this i hope will be a polite board"If this is happening i assure you the boards will be filling up with maddened players from all the classesaffraid such ridiculous changes will touch their main classes'The role of a troub / bardMost of the bard player base is hoping for situational buffs,for example make requiem of deflection a short duration spell.Something else then spamming ( twisting ) CA in order to get mediocre DPS<div></div>

Dwergux

11-07-2006, 08:03 PM

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Triag wrote:<div></div>First of all, the spelling of the class name : Troubadour !Totally agreeBard Stealth - every stealth / invis ability in this game has an added effect to themthere used to be one for bards to, just as the in game skill description says.Either reintroduce that enhanced speed or add something else, anything.Worst case scenario and unbalancing change , at least change the description.Another interesting point (never thought about this, but you have a good point)Twisting - it was stated twisting will not be introduced in the gamebut if you want to attain decent dps as a troubador your button smashingreally, really, REALLY, reminds me of twisting.Up the damage on spells as well as recast timers?This will lower dps as bards rely heavily on procs and HOs to get every bit of added dps,but i am still in favor of it as i know that when my wrist is not hurting i am slacking.I don't understand what you meanBuffs and debuffs - Dull and weak is what they arethe resist songs add less then a mastercrafted resist item, and use a conc slotHaste spells are being slightly raised with the cap raise, but this is still too low. 26% master 1 lvl 70Skills buffs, we will see how these work in EoFThe power drain of the debuffs is an awfull "effect versus power" ratio.Powerdrains are useless (have been so since LU13) so yes, adding those to our skills to give them flavoris not helping us much.Self buff - as always uses a conc slot, too many buffs to choose from, none is free.seeing all the one target limited buffs this feels wierd.Totally agreeStances - with EoF, having the defensive stance on will raise even more your miti.If the encounters are balanced to take this in account bards will not benefitfrom this new ( nice IMO ) idea.Thus sending back to the weakness of the self buff.What do you mean? That all classes with a defensive stance get a bonus, but as we lack a defensive stancewe will be left behind?Mez - this one deserves a laugh, the previous changes were not needed, but new AAsare here to allow you to keep two mobs mezed.I hate the take and give back procedure, but at least the reuse could be lowered by 1 sec per point too.A lot of players with whom i play laughed with me about the mez changes to troub.Back before DoF i was hoping for an encounter mez, i really got that one wrong :smileysurprised:Yeah, great to see we get back what was taken away in LU24Power regen if it s true the spell is losing the 5 points that the AAs can give backthis is total "words not used here because this i hope will be a polite board"If this is happening i assure you the boards will be filling up with maddened players from all the classesaffraid such ridiculous changes will touch their main classes'I don't agree here. Power usage was tweaked in the combat revamp, thus powerregen had to be tweaked aswell.The role of a troub / bardMost of the bard player base is hoping for situational buffs,for example make requiem of deflection a short duration spell.I'll settle for a working version of RoRSomething else then spamming ( twisting ) CA in order to get mediocre DPS<div></div><hr></blockquote>Comments in yellow. I do hope for some troubadour loving. Let's hope we get some soon.

Tri

11-07-2006, 08:37 PM

<div></div>When i try to think fast in english i make a lot of mistakes :smileytongue:the power drain was about the power used to keep the debuffs up. Over 1k power a minutefor those debuffs sure seems a lot to me.draining power as you say is something that became useless some time ago, and even somePvPers debate about it's usefullness.But in PVE we all know it s totally useless. The added effect on the snare/debuff could be changed too as it seems quite nice on paper but is really awfull on total parses.About twisting, as we cast a lot of spells the short laps for melee between them are better used withlower delay weapons, like bows.So i have a cycle in which when my spells are up i back up enough to be able to get a few bow hits betweenmy spells. Then go in for the melee CAsAdd to that the fact that troubs have a maximum of 2 seconds pause for auto attack. I am always bashingskills, always, at a rate higher than any other class i play. ( using the HOs also )You can recast your debuffs also, get in a few bow hits, try to get a critic on kians, and hope some ofyour procs will kick in ( aria, bone belt, bone finger manacle, collection orb, etc etc ) The gap between madman smashing and casual slacking is for me around 400 dps And often that dosn t seem worth it to my wrist pains. So again this sends back to added situational buffs.Concerning the power regen issues.Are enchanters getting there regen spells and power management spells lowered?It can be seen as a bone towards better buffs if they kept the same numbers, because if they can give it back in AAs then it's far from being overpowering. Keep the same numbers than before but add a 1% per rank reduction to group power use with the AA, i like that idea. With EoF, turning def stance on will raise the miti provided by your equipment.Higher lvl armour will add more miti, so fabled meleers won't get hurt too badlyregarding their fighting habits as they will recieve even more miti.This will further widen the gap between bards and other scouts.<div></div>

Cuz

11-07-2006, 08:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dwergux wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Triag wrote: First of all, the spelling of the class name : Troubadour ! Totally agree Bard Stealth - every stealth / invis ability in this game has an added effect to them there used to be one for bards to, just as the in game skill description says. Either reintroduce that enhanced speed or add something else, anything. Worst case scenario and unbalancing change , at least change the description. Another interesting point (never thought about this, but you have a good point) Twisting - it was stated twisting will not be introduced in the game but if you want to attain decent dps as a troubador your button smashing really, really, REALLY, reminds me of twisting. Up the damage on spells as well as recast timers? This will lower dps as bards rely heavily on procs and HOs to get every bit of added dps, but i am still in favor of it as i know that when my wrist is not hurting i am slacking. I don't understand what you mean In EQ1 to be a good - great troub, you had to do twisting. In essence people are against twisting because it was a frantic press of buttons. In reality to get good DPS as a troub you have to do that anyways, so saying 'no' to twisting is a bit moot. Buffs and debuffs - Dull and weak is what they are the resist songs add less then a mastercrafted resist item, and use a conc slot Haste spells are being slightly raised with the cap raise, but this is still too low. 26% master 1 lvl 70 Skills buffs, we will see how these work in EoF The power drain of the debuffs is an awfull "effect versus power" ratio. Powerdrains are useless (have been so since LU13) so yes, adding those to our skills to give them flavor is not helping us much. I think what he meant is that the debuff drains more power than they're worth. However I also very much agree with your point. Self buff - as always uses a conc slot, too many buffs to choose from, none is free. seeing all the one target limited buffs this feels wierd. Totally agree Stances - with EoF, having the defensive stance on will raise even more your miti. If the encounters are balanced to take this in account bards will not benefit from this new ( nice IMO ) idea. Thus sending back to the weakness of the self buff. What do you mean? That all classes with a defensive stance get a bonus, but as we lack a defensive stance we will be left behind? Bingo. Mez - this one deserves a laugh, the previous changes were not needed, but new AAs are here to allow you to keep two mobs mezed. I hate the take and give back procedure, but at least the reuse could be lowered by 1 sec per point too. A lot of players with whom i play laughed with me about the mez changes to troub. Back before DoF i was hoping for an encounter mez, i really got that one wrong :smileysurprised: Yeah, great to see we get back what was taken away in LU24 Power regen if it s true the spell is losing the 5 points that the AAs can give back this is total "words not used here because this i hope will be a polite board" If this is happening i assure you the boards will be filling up with maddened players from all the classes affraid such ridiculous changes will touch their main classes' I don't agree here. Power usage was tweaked in the combat revamp, thus powerregen had to be tweaked aswell. Rumour has it that we're losing 5 points of mana regen, and if you want them back you have to take that AA. So it's not a matter of improving your character, but a matter of un-nerfing it. The role of a troub / bard Most of the bard player base is hoping for situational buffs, for example make requiem of deflection a short duration spell. I'll settle for a working version of RoR Something else then spamming ( twisting ) CA in order to get mediocre DPS <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Comments in yellow. I do hope for some troubadour loving. Let's hope we get some soon. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Coin Flip AA - Completes what ever HO you're attempting regardless of which class should be completing it. Instruments - Just do something. For the love of god do something. Stances - Give us non concs stances like the other scouts. Right now Swindlers Luck (I think that's it) is a great boon to a scout in defensive stance. It's near useless to us.

Jaimster

11-08-2006, 10:03 AM

I really don't mean to sound like a downer, but we have a stickied thread that is full of ideas (a lot of them really good) and very few rants... it was, for the most part, ignored. We have an 11-12 page thread on test forums that has been near the top of the list since it was started in August. That has a lot of great ideas and has also seemingly been ignored by the devs. The complaint forums get locked or moved into the Troub forums/Dirge forums. I think the only reason they haven't moved the 11 page one is because it is about Bards in general and there isn't a "bard" board. I'm glad you're still trying and I hope you get what you're looking for (and what most of us are looking for), but honestly, there's a lot of troubs, me included, that just don't have the energy to fight anymore... SOE devs ignore us, and that isn't a rant, it's simple fact based on my experiences since I started playing the game a month or two after it started. We have given them PLENTY of good ideas, and what they gave us in return was the useless, unimaginative AA line that is on Beta for EoF. They can't even implement the ideas we've handed them on a silver platter (most of which weren't exactly overpowered) that actually match the concept of a Troub. Instead, they seem to have given those things to other classes. As I said, this isn't ranting, it's just being honest.

Tri

11-08-2006, 07:46 PM

I believe there must be some office melodrama involved concerning this class. And i fully understand how you re feeling. Some obvious tweaks are needed. Spelling and stealth being the first ones, The stealth dosn't work as implied in description, how much more broken can a skill be than that? I was just feeling like giving whoever reads this another chance of queuing these demands on the devs to do list. RUN SPEED ! wardens will get a 45% sow for 5 points, a 25% increase bards get a 40% for 4 KoS points , a 6% increase fury's will be able to go other 100% in combat speed 1 min every five minutes as well as a 35% self in combat speed and safefall until canceled ( adding up with the KoS line ) does that seem balanced? Raise run speed buffs lower casting time on eli's ( besides AA, they should not be seen as a way to "fix" a class ) lower power costs on debuffs make the bard self buff balanced with the stances ALL other melee class get change the bonus % of the AAs -> currently on live i use 4 aa points for a 1 point increase to the def buff, the same thing will be happening for the EoF AAs <div></div>

Dwergux

11-08-2006, 08:26 PM

We have a KoS AP that gives a bonus to ALL our group buffs that improve stats. That means a boost to raxxl. That's it. Very little bonus for the skill.