Upcoming changes that makes us more popular : ) Yay [Archive]

View Full Version : Upcoming changes that makes us more popular : ) Yay

Mishrac

09-29-2006, 11:45 AM

<DIV>Well take a look at this. this will make the class even more desired in groups and raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Nainitsuj

09-29-2006, 04:29 PM

I have yet to see someone say "Nah, it's just a troub, send it back" when forming groups for a raid.

VericSauvari

09-29-2006, 06:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mishrac wrote: <DIV>Well take a look at this. this will make the class even more desired in groups and raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=11194#M11194</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> we already are, however unless they fix our buffs to scale for the changes its same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] different day.

Tri

09-29-2006, 07:28 PM

<div></div>Oh come on veric, cheer up !at least now our str / sta song will add 50 hp and 2 in attack for the previously capped folksAnd dove song will have a use !!! omg omg omg it will ... wait , what will it do to folkswho have allready reached high skills with their buffs / items ?sarcasm aside, can someone explain to me some details of those changes?the way i see it now dove song will grant more chances toresist interupts / stifles on a spell allready being cast and for the spell to land.But didnt they also say mob spell resistability was reduced?my 2 copper, waiting for some silver<div></div>

Lachlan

09-29-2006, 09:53 PM

<DIV>I'm very glad that the dev team has tackled some pretty ambitious adgenda items with broken parts of the mechanics system. I'm under no illusions though, it may or may not address specific problems we have identified in the Bard community. There is an unspoken goal too: Go out and buy the expansion, there's lots of shiny new toys that raiding Labs and Deathtoll week after week just won't get you. (Fair enough but some of broken parts need significant repairs.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With Troubs stradling the caster-melee divide I see us losing in some respects and gaining in others. If Gallenite, Lockeye, et al. get things right our buffs will scale better, our longevity will rise if we are raiding and improving gear at out level and casting dove song or spending on some of our dubious AA's (HELLO Allergo) will begin having a meanful effect. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On the negative side, we rely heavily on stiffle, mez, knockdown and interupt skills. Soloists and PvPers alike will die in more nasty, frustrating ways if these skills continue to erode. My lvl 68 Mighty Bellow (M1) IF not resisted only has a 19% chance of knock down. This will hurt a bunch of troub CA's unless other areas balance out especially overall dps and group dps effectiveness. I think the idea that didn't get across in the LU 26 changes was IF we can't mez/charm things as well, we need to be capable of killing them faster. </DIV>

Jeger_Wulf

09-29-2006, 10:15 PM

I seems to me we are already fairly popular in groups - just not that much fun to play.

Antipalad

09-30-2006, 07:06 PM

Not holding my breath for fixed craptastic scaling on our buffs, Sony's track record shows otherwise when it comes to bards.

Spider

10-01-2006, 07:13 AM

wow a lot of real downers on this board it seems personaly i realy enjoy my troub both in groups and solo play mabie its because i started as an inquis that i ahve a different perspective but i find that in pve and pve im fairly well rounded and can deal with a myriad of situations most others cant , while i dont have the damage fo some classes or the brute force of others utility usualy makes me exceel far above others just one small example i took on 1 even con player and 5 greens last ngith defending a lower lvl group that was getting ganked over and over and i moped the floor with them mostly because i was able to constantly switch tactics , moving in and out of range , kiting , charming and turning them against one another , and so on till i killed each of them atleast 5 times and they gave up funny thing is sthey were all complete twinks in all mastercrafted gear and all master 1 skills and while i have many masters im no where near twinked and my gear is only a step above common crafted so say what u will but personaly i realy enjoy my troub and the upcoming changes will only make it that much better

thorvang

10-01-2006, 11:46 PM

start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities.

Spider

10-02-2006, 01:35 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote: start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffs troubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u care and ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!!

Narben Von Nacht

10-02-2006, 02:06 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thorvang wrote:start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <hr> </blockquote> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffs troubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u care and ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!!<hr>Who mentioned dps parsing? It's got nothing to do with the topic at hand which is the upcoming combat changes. The fact you can in all seriousness say our class works great just highlights how much you don't have a clue. Come back to us at level 70 when you actually have some raiding experience and tell us the same thing.I'm not sure whether to look forward to the changes or not. If this update makes a buff like Dove song useful then it's a plus. However unless EoF introduces some way for us to increase our concentration slots I can't see how we're going to be expected to use it, our buff line up is pretty much set in a raid, there's no room for anything else.</blockquote></div>

ForgottenFoundling

10-02-2006, 03:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote: start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffs troubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u care and ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Troubs scale HORRIBLY. Let's see how badass you are when you're at level 70 and get repeatedly owned. I'm glad you are all "Ra Ra" for troubs, but MOST of the existing troubs aren't playing PVP. You have absolutely no clue about end game and what it means to be a troub there. So, compare apples to apples or take your "omgwtfbbq charm PWNS!!!" back to your server board.

thorvang

10-02-2006, 04:16 AM

<blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><HR>thorvang wrote: start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffstroubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u careand ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!!<hr></blockquote>lol, calm down. i never said anything about dps. what a troub does on raids is setting up his 5-buff-setup manasong/stats/haste/deaggro/aria (+3 AA buffs and selo's). the only reason to switch to other buffs might be on the very rare occasion you end up in a group full of tanks, but still in those groups the 5-buff-setup is nearly as good as any other setup.so there's not much to do on raids other than trying to max your dps. pretty weak for a utility class.

Spider

10-02-2006, 05:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote: start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffs troubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u care and ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!! <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> lol, calm down. i never said anything about dps. what a troub does on raids is setting up his 5-buff-setup manasong/stats/haste/deaggro/aria (+3 AA buffs and selo's). the only reason to switch to other buffs might be on the very rare occasion you end up in a group full of tanks, but still in those groups the 5-buff-setup is nearly as good as any other setup. so there's not much to do on raids other than trying to max your dps. pretty weak for a utility class. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> well im gonna ignore the other posts outright except to counter the one comment about high lvl troubs on pvp server ( there are few but the few there are are all greatly feared ) but what more do u expect to do on a raid ? and assasin does one thing ...dps a ranger ? ...dps a healer ?? ..... heal and buff brig ? dps and debuff troub/dirge ? buff and dps theres not a lot more to do on a raid man i know i havent done all the L337 lvl 70 raids and waht not and may not know every little tiny trick in the book but end the end thats irrelevant we do what we do man we have fanfreaking tastic group buffs and if we play it smart we can dish out some respectible dps on the side what more do you realy expect to be able to do ? ( serious question here) ( ps i know i get a little hot headed ya'll will get used to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i mnot a bad guy just a VERY direct one and i always speak my mind so if i come off a little rough sorry in advance but its jsut my nature when im passonite about something and i love my troub and my inquis and defend them vehenimently .. youll notice only 2 toons im my sig even though i have 5-6 )

thorvang

10-02-2006, 12:49 PM

"assasin does one thing ...dps""a ranger ? ...dps"they're dps classes, all they want to do is getting on top of those parses. they dish out some severe damage and if they dish out the most damage they fulfilled their classes role. so upgrading their spells and gear directly affects their main purpose."a healer ?? ..... heal and buff"well, healers heal. that's actively affecting a tank. choosing the right heals at the right time, pay attention to cures and make use of some great debuffs that could make the difference between a win or fail."brig ? dps and debuff"a good brig deals insane damage. a better brig debuffs. a really good brig does both. and that's clicking spells like a madman to not lose out one single debuff or detaunt."troub/dirge ? buff and dps"look at what the other classes do, they're much more active in what they do. and they need to be active cause that's what defines their class. a ranger just sitting on auto-attack deals weak dps and is useless. a brig that just tries to maximize his dps doesn't contribute the full potential of his class. if healer is doing his job right is seen directly on the mt.a troub's main purpose on a raid is fulfilled by just being there. our buffs don't need any interaction, they're up as long as we live. so, i say it again, all that's left is maxing our dps. but that's not why i choose a supporting class. i want some activity in supporting my group, even on raids.

Spider

10-02-2006, 02:38 PM

you still havent answered the question WHAT do u want to DO on a raid ?? actively repeat buff ? u want ur buffs to randomly turn off while ur trying to maxamize ur dps sp that u have to keep reapplying them ? you have 2 prouposes one BUFFS to help the group 2 Maxamize your dps hmm kinda like the opposite of a brig hmm a healer activley heals huh jeez i never woulda know that considering my main is an INQUISITER and just an fyi maximising ur heals to keep the tank up is exactly liek maximizing ur dps your doing the most proactive thing u can do to assist in killing the mob , and you both have nice static buffs that u put up proir to everythign to help make it all possible YOU HAVE A ROLE IN RAIDS YOU HAVE A ROLE IN PVP YOU HAVE A ROLE IN PVE WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT ?

Concordant

10-02-2006, 04:29 PM

Ispiderl, we have a role, but our role is way to passive. Yeah, we can jump and fight and stuff, but it wont make much of a diffrence later on. At L28 it is all good, but not at 70/50 in raids. And for a game to make fun it is not enough to be just there (as mentioned above). Concordant <div></div>

VericSauvari

10-02-2006, 06:33 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: you still havent answered the question WHAT do u want to DO on a raid ?? actively repeat buff ? u want ur buffs to randomly turn off while ur trying to maxamize ur dps sp that u have to keep reapplying them ? you have 2 prouposes one BUFFS to help the group 2 Maxamize your dps hmm kinda like the opposite of a brig hmm a healer activley heals huh jeez i never woulda know that considering my main is an INQUISITER and just an fyi maximising ur heals to keep the tank up is exactly liek maximizing ur dps your doing the most proactive thing u can do to assist in killing the mob , and you both have nice static buffs that u put up proir to everythign to help make it all possible YOU HAVE A ROLE IN RAIDS YOU HAVE A ROLE IN PVP YOU HAVE A ROLE IN PVE WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT ? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> as said before, reach end game then come back to us...you can enjoy your role as an afk buffbot or work harder then a majority of other classes to pull out respectable dps numbers(and still fall well short of everyone else) please do not compare your very limited troubador experience to those at endgame and at max level. its a whole different ballgame.

loveybutt

10-02-2006, 10:33 PM

<blockquote><hr>lspiderl wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thorvang wrote: <blockquote> <hr> lspiderl wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thorvang wrote:start raiding and you'll experience your troub in a whole new way. on raids most of our buffs are next to useless and all we contribute are passive abilities. <hr> </blockquote> who cares if were not "top" on a stupid parser that doestn show the damage our buffs add to others and why complain taht people WANT our passive buffs troubs are in DEMAND and no matter what the reason there in demand for thats a good thing why would u care and ur not just sitting there (unless ur dumb) your still activly participating in the combat ... if u wanted to TOP the parser lists you shoulda rollen and assasin not a troub so like they say [Removed for Content] or get off the pot . if u dont like not being numero uno parser boy then roll an assasin and stop whining abou ta calss taht works great for what it is which is a UTILITY SCOUT !!!! <hr> </blockquote>lol, calm down. i never said anything about dps. what a troub does on raids is setting up his 5-buff-setup manasong/stats/haste/deaggro/aria (+3 AA buffs and selo's). the only reason to switch to other buffs might be on the very rare occasion you end up in a group full of tanks, but still in those groups the 5-buff-setup is nearly as good as any other setup.so there's not much to do on raids other than trying to max your dps. pretty weak for a utility class. <hr> </blockquote> well im gonna ignore the other posts outright except to counter the one comment about high lvl troubs on pvp server ( there are few but the few there are are all greatly feared ) but what more do u expect to do on a raid ? and assasin does one thing ...dps a ranger ? ...dps a healer ?? ..... heal and buff brig ? dps and debuff troub/dirge ? buff and dps theres not a lot more to do on a raid man i know i havent done all the L337 lvl 70 raids and waht not and may not know every little tiny trick in the book but end the end thats irrelevant we do what we do man we have fanfreaking tastic group buffs and if we play it smart we can dish out some respectible dps on the side what more do you realy expect to be able to do ? ( serious question here) ( ps i know i get a little hot headed ya'll will get used to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i mnot a bad guy just a VERY direct one and i always speak my mind so if i come off a little rough sorry in advance but its jsut my nature when im passonite about something and i love my troub and my inquis and defend them vehenimently .. youll notice only 2 toons im my sig even though i have 5-6 )<hr></blockquote>Troubs are feared in PVP? at lvl 70? With our horrible scaling dps? Our mezz that lands 1 out of 5 times, if youre lucky? same with charm that last a few seconds? Very few ways at lvl 70 to defeat anything other then a mage class without landing a mezz to debuff, we just dont have the dps to go toe to toe with any other class.. The other day a guildy was telling me of this torub he fought (i think the guildy was an assasin or something), he said the troub actually fought back, and the way he made it sound was almost like the troub beat him! then i asked if he lost to the troub, and he said 'oh no, he only got me down to 50%, but..)<div></div>

Jeger_Wulf

10-02-2006, 10:52 PM

> i love my troub and my inquis and defend them vehenimently Well, if you love your troub and want to be one of the few that exist, you're in great shape. Last I checked, 21 classes were more popular than us. If you want a few more people to play a troubadour, though, you might want to reconsider. Maybe you'd be better off if you stopped defending them and started campaigning for some improvements.

ForgottenFoundling

10-03-2006, 06:57 AM

Kajinryu

10-03-2006, 09:04 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>ForgottenFoundling wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> lspiderl wrote: <div></div> you still havent answered the question WHAT do u want to DO on a raid ?? actively repeat buff ? u want ur buffs to randomly turn off while ur trying to maxamize ur dps sp that u have to keep reapplying them ? <hr> </blockquote> We want our role in the raid to take skill. We want our buffs to be significant (much more so than they are in their passive state) or to a lesser extent, we want more dps if they won't budge on the UTILITY portion of our character. <hr></blockquote>So... yes? You want twisting back? Is this what bard's want? I've only been playing weekends for 5-6 months; please explain to me how that (as I've been told) twisting was removed and the majority of bards are happy about it? Bards want better buffs, bards want to have playing one take skill (which is arguable in almost any game with almost any class), but they don't want to spend the time refreshing buffs to maintain thier l337 skillz? The most feedback I've seen is that bards want to play an active buffing role (while maintaining all 5 conc slots with songs on top of it). Yeah, I'd like an active buffing role for when I'm in groups. I'd like twisting back myself (in exchange for increased song effectiveness), but this is contradictory to all else I've read. Hey, the could add scaling to the duration of the buffs as well, then they could scale better.Do me a favor and lay off the "level to 70 and come back" bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] too. I have option of creating my own endgame, at any level, as I see fit (You did too, and if xp lock came out after you hit 70, you have the option to reroll or mentor some lowbies; mentoring doesn't even come with the hefty price of helplessness on a pve server as it does pvp). I don't care to raid, and likely never will. PvE is boring, period. Different situation, different day, same old [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty routine I go through the motions on. I doubt I'll ever hit 70 by my own will, in the meantime if I look for a pve challenge I'll take a blue heroic encounter out solo and see how close I can come to dying in the process.All else aside... I'm a bit surprised at some of the reactions. This is, imo, a great change. Yes, that opinion is skewed with pvp in mind. The same changes apply to pve, which is almost as good considering how mindless and dull mobs are. If your raid members aren't setting up to make use of your buffs (seriously, they're going to get +105 in a skill with self buffs alone?), what are they doing even wasting your time putting buffs up? They can cap themselves with the right equipment, good for them. They can't get a better overall effect with different items and you in the group? Question that motive for a bit here, are they excluding you in this way? If that's the case, don't blame SOE for not making your buffs do more above and beyond so that you stay effective (wah, wah, wah, bad scaling), blame those so-called raid friends for making you utterly useless in the situation, to the point you feel unfulfilled in the relationship you hold with the guild.</div>

Jaimster

10-03-2006, 10:56 AM

I don't think anyone is too concerned about being unpopular - there are so few bards that I've never experienced being told, sorry we have too many of you... As for you... <HR> Kajinryu wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> Do me a favor and lay off the "level to 70 and come back" bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] too. Oh, okay, so the fact that some of us have been playing our toons for well over a year, and know what it's like to be level capped, and how horribly the scaling of our spells and buffs are doesn't give us more knowledge than you? Please... be realistic. There is definitely a huge difference between being a Troub at level 28 and being a Troub at level 70. I don't care to raid, and likely never will. Much of the "Playing a troub is boring" comes from the mouths of raiding troubs. If you don't like raiding, and don't do it, then you can't possibly understand. PvE is boring, period. Different situation, different day, same old [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty routine I go through the motions on. I doubt I'll ever hit 70 by my own will, in the meantime if I look for a pve challenge I'll take a blue heroic encounter out solo and see how close I can come to dying in the process. Okay, well I personally think PvP sucks, but I don't suggest they not fix things for troubs on PvP unless the change is effecting PvE troubs in a negative manner.... All else aside... I'm a bit surprised at some of the reactions. This is, imo, a great change. Yes, that opinion is skewed with pvp in mind. The same changes apply to pve, which is almost as good considering how mindless and dull mobs are. If your raid members aren't setting up to make use of your buffs (seriously, they're going to get +105 in a skill with self buffs alone?), what are they doing even wasting your time putting buffs up? They can cap themselves with the right equipment, good for them. They can't get a better overall effect with different items and you in the group? Question that motive for a bit here, are they excluding you in this way? If that's the case, don't blame SOE for not making your buffs do more above and beyond so that you stay effective (wah, wah, wah, bad scaling), blame those so-called raid friends for making you utterly useless in the situation, to the point you feel unfulfilled in the relationship you hold with the guild. Again, please feel free to reference the "Hit 70/50 and raid for a bit and then come back to us"... I don't think any troub has said they were worthless or useless, just that a lot of our buffs are useless, a lot of our skills are next to useless (in some situations), and raiding can be a bit dull and the difference between a great bard and an okay bard is quite often only on spell/CA quality... I don't think many troubs are asking for twisting, but better scaling of spells/buffs, and more spells in the way of Jester's Cap and PotM. </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I suppose I'll finish in yellow... I love my troubador. She is by far my favorite class, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But just because I love my troub, doesn't mean that I'm completely blind to some of their weaknesses... one of which is that there is little in the way of non-passive contributions on a raid. At least in groups you can use your 14sec charm or weakened mezz for a little excitement. I have no idea whether the upcoming changes will hurt or hinder us, I just felt the need to reply to your post which was just pretty rude and ignorant in my opinion.

Spider

10-04-2006, 03:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ForgottenFoundling wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: you still havent answered the question WHAT do u want to DO on a raid ?? actively repeat buff ? u want ur buffs to randomly turn off while ur trying to maxamize ur dps sp that u have to keep reapplying them ? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> We want our role in the raid to take skill. We want our buffs to be significant (much more so than they are in their passive state) or to a lesser extent, we want more dps if they won't budge on the UTILITY portion of our character. We are the janitors of eq2. People need us to pick up the poop because nobody else wants to. But honestly, who wants to clean up crap for a living? (except in pvp where it behouves you to throw as much crap as you can at others) <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> ok out of all the stupid pointless your a lowbie blah blah blah crap posts ONE person at least made an ATTEMPT to accualy see the reason behind what i said and attempted to answer the questions the simple question is this WHAT DO U WANT YOUR TROUB TO DO IN A RAID ????????? not what can u do not what do u suck at in a raid not whats ur current use in a raid but WHAT DO U WANT TO DO ??? lay it out in detail what functions do u want to perform in a raid ? in pve ? in pve ? what skills do u want added ,changed ,removed ,revamped . lay it out ive thrown down the guantlet u want to talk then lets talk seriously and none of this ur too lowbie crap because thats jsut [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] im a READER i read constantly and ive read and researched a LOT ( not everything but a lot ) about t7 and raiding and such but i dont do it yet so im asking u all again as i have in almost every post WHAT DO "U WANT ?

Kajinryu

10-04-2006, 09:38 AM

<div><blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<div></div><blockquote><div><blockquote>Oh, okay, so the fact that some of us have been playing our toons for well over a year, and know what it's like to be level capped, and how horribly the scaling of our spells and buffs are doesn't give us more knowledge than you? Please... be realistic. There is definitely a huge difference between being a Troub at level 28 and being a Troub at level 70. I've played other games prior to EQ2. With my casual playstyle I eventually achieved 5 50s with reasonable gear over the 3 years or so I played DAoC. I know what raiding is like, my choice to not raid in this game is based on that I already know what to expect in a raid. They're fundamentally the same in any game. Beat on mob, get loot, /dance.The duration for which you've played one toon over mine gives many of you experience of playing that one toon only (that being your own toon). I've done some research into any game I've played. I know what classes sound interesting to me, I know what those classes can do, and I know what my most common opponents and allies are primarily capable of. There are players who have been playing longer than I that have less knowledge about the game than I do.My decisions are based on my own researches, and raiding is an extremely bad idea for me in this game. Not that there isn't a difference between a level 34 and 70 toon, it's just not realistic to tell me you know more than anything I do and your opinions are more valid because of it (the "level to 70" arguement). My decision to go beyond 44 (as far, far, far off as that is) will be based on how these changes affect the game. Much of the "Playing a troub is boring" comes from the mouths of raiding troubs. If you don't like raiding, and don't do it, then you can't possibly understand. Okay, well I personally think PvP sucks, but I don't suggest they not fix things for troubs on PvP unless the change is effecting PvE troubs in a negative manner....I don't like raiding, you don't like pvp. We have quite different views on this game because of our chioces in different playstyle. Neither of us wants a change unless it affects us all in a positive manner. These are many, perhaps watered down, changes, but the overall effect is for the better. Again, please feel free to reference the "Hit 70/50 and raid for a bit and then come back to us"... I don't think any troub has said they were worthless or useless, just that a lot of our buffs are useless, a lot of our skills are next to useless (in some situations), and raiding can be a bit dull and the difference between a great bard and an okay bard is quite often only on spell/CA quality... I don't think many troubs are asking for twisting, but better scaling of spells/buffs, and more spells in the way of Jester's Cap and PotM. Here's a big problem as I see it with the way people complain about worthless buffs. They complain because thier friends can achieve the capped effect without thier buffs. This makes the buff useless. Buffing is our role, without buffing, we're useless. Horrible scaling aside, who truely makes a bard useless? Nobody wants to actively buff, so they made it passive... so we asked for more buffs that we can actively use.Perhaps in future expansions they can remove our attacks and replace them with active buffs. Really, I had no choice in the decision, not a voice to speak with. I didn't play the pve game at that time. Nice forethought on the part of my predecessors though. I was disappointed to see twisting removed. About now all we can do is wait for SOE to add buffs (which they'll likely have to add new abilities to other classes to avoid crying). </blockquote></div> <hr> </blockquote>I suppose I'll finish in yellow... I love my troubador. She is by far my favorite class, and I wouldn't say otherwise. But just because I love my troub, doesn't mean that I'm completely blind to some of their weaknesses... one of which is that there is little in the way of non-passive contributions on a raid. At least in groups you can use your 14sec charm or weakened mezz for a little excitement. I have no idea whether the upcoming changes will hurt or hinder us, I just felt the need to reply to your post which was just pretty rude and ignorant in my opinion.<hr></blockquote>Mine was, eh? Glad you picked up on it. There was a large amount of editing to tone it down. Try these ones again:"same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] different day.""most of our buffs are next to useless""Let's see how badass you are when you're at level 70 and get repeatedly owned.""You have absolutely no clue about end game""it wont make much of a diffrence later on""you can enjoy your role as an afk buffbot""Last I checked, 21 classes were more popular than us.""People need us to pick up the poop because nobody else wants to."This collection summizes most of the posts directed to enthusiastic players that have not yet conformed to the level 70 raiding aspect seemingly required in these forums.I'm all for an improved class overall. Telling lower level (and new) players to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off with thier opinions with all the negativity in the world isn't going to improve the class. What do many posts seems to be about on a forum (which, granted, is nothing more than a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan get-together in many cases)? I hear an overall message to the effect of "SOE never listens, they'll notice us once we're [all but] gone" Reminds me of a suicide note. It's one thing to be realistic, and not turn a blind eye to the problems; it's another to take all chances to highlight those problems and laugh as you throw them in the face of others. With the caps being raised, there's at least some use to using the buffs again; so why the brush off and negativity towards them? These changes are nothing but good for caster archetypes (being those that can cast spells), to a lesser extent those with lots of buffing ability, and most of the posts have been negative. Not even toward the changes, but to those that are happy about them. Nobody is remotely happy about these changes, well, there's maybe three here.Yes, there's bad scaling. Yes, our buffing is passive. Yes, I'm aware of how bad it gets thanks to a) the internet and a search button and b) delving the abilities in game (I was aware enough to actively decide not to level, and continue to do so). Yes, those are things that should be looken into. Given that, there's no possible way to improve other than directly changing these things? What a one-track mind... The most valid point I've heard in regards to these changes is how it may be harder for some tanks to hold aggro with all the increased chance to hit that caster dps is getting. There's way too many posts over these changes for me to remember where I even saw it at this point.I'll bring up the end game question again. We have the choice to play an artificial end game at any time, in almost any way that we please. The option is more desirable on pvp servers, but available still on pve. What makes your endgame any more valid than mine? The time you spent to get it? That you're a player in the majority of playstyle? Do you have more fun in a group than in a raid, where you are feeling more useful? I know what I want for my endgame, and am having fun doing it, which seems more than many raiding players.Oh, and although many of the remarks seem directed straight for you, Jaimster, I assure you they're not. At least not in entirety, your opinions were valid to my previous points, as ignorant as you percieve them (as a level 70 raiding troub). Who seriously plays a game in a way they aren't having some fun in, week in, week out? OMGZ, I'll lose my guild if I don't raid with them constantly; who cares? Roll an alt and ditch them if they won't let you play the way you want to. You could roll another troub if the class is so fun and ideal for you. Whatever, not as if I should care all that much about what you do, how you play, and why that makes you 1,000 times the human being that I'll ever be.</div>

Spider

10-05-2006, 01:13 AM

/tar Kajinryu /cheer

Lachlan

10-05-2006, 06:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>well im gonna ignore the other posts outright except to counter the one comment about high lvl troubs on pvp server ( there are few but the few there are are all greatly feared )</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Here it is, direct from Naggy (pvp): The number one class is Brigand and they are not greatly feared, they are greatly resented. Troubs are gimped by low DPS, which as pointed out earlier, does not scale well. The best thing that can be said about 70 Troubs in pvp is they usually are good players and have decent strats (there are some things we do well) and they were clearly up for a challenge. No Decap, no endless snare line with stuns and Dispatch, no En Guarde, no Fusion. In full groups, the buffs spread out and Troubadors do pretty well. There's plenty of reasons to play them even in pvp. But not feared. Mez, charm, stiffle, proc damage all being reduced across a string of LU's hurt PvP Troubs a lot. Reworking the combat system WILL have a big effect on Troubs again. Hopefully better than what the past 8 months brought. Lachlan - 70 Troubador Nagafen

Hajji

10-05-2006, 10:22 PM

<DIV>I'll just say this and be on my way:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a hardcore raiding, non-PVP situation, as well as in normal grouping situations....bards are a support class with supplemental DPS. This was the same thing bards couldn't get past in EQ1, bards used to [Removed for Content] and moan about the fact that they were not competing DPS-wise with the other scouts. If all classes were alike we'd all be the same...this game is based on diversity and difference, else why have the gear and spell tiers? But I digress. Your play style will vary according to style and personal preference, but the essence of the class remains the same. Yes, our DPS is lower than other scouts, and yes despite that, it is also possible for a troubador with M1 hate song to intentionally over-aggro a raid mob and still pull it from a fighter/brawler/etc. Do we do it a lot? No. Typical and possible are 2 different things, and while I applaud many of the points made in this thread, I see some of the same complaints that were raised in EQ1 popping up about our ability to kill mobs, which I believe will not be severely affected by this update.</DIV> <DIV>(Some of this was covered by other people in another recent thread about Troub DPS)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At first, I didn't particularly like what was done to our mental spells, but I learned to work around them quickly just the same. While it was easy to keep 2 mobs mezzed before that change, it's still just as possible, only you have to be more involved and attentive than before. People will learn to work around the issues the same way with the upcoming changes, and some will simply refuse to accept them and will raise hell about it, as is their right. /shrug</DIV>Message Edited by Hajji on 10-05-2006 01:27 PM

Jeger_Wulf

10-06-2006, 01:42 AM

<DIV>> People will learn to work around the issues the same way with </DIV> <DIV>> the upcoming changes, and some will simply refuse to accept </DIV> <DIV>> them and will raise hell about it, as is their right.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubadours were one of the least-played classes before the nerfs - I am not sure what justified the nerfage at all. I am glad that you still like your troub - I play mine on occasion, but IMO every other alt I have (Mystic, Swash, Bruiser, Paladin, Necromancer) is more fun. It's too bad really.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't really raise a fuss - I just don't play him much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> we have fanfreaking tastic group buffs and if we play it smart </DIV> <DIV>> we can dish out some respectible dps on the side </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess it depends on whether you want more people to play the class. If you're happy with being one of the least-played classes that are still in demand on raids - there's nothing more to do, because we are already there. If you want more of those "fanfreaking tastic group buffs" around, then you might want to consider making the class more fun to play.</DIV>

Killerbee3000

10-06-2006, 07:15 PM

the upcoming cobat changes will make casting skill upgrades worth something, so, i assume dove song will be added to the list of buffs that are worth considering, other than that, well, troubs will still have more of a passive role and the way to get groups will still be /master 1 mana regen lfg.<div></div>

VericSauvari

10-06-2006, 08:46 PM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Killerbee3000 wrote: the upcoming cobat changes will make casting skill upgrades worth something, so, i assume dove song will be added to the list of buffs that are worth considering, other than that, well, troubs will still have more of a passive role and the way to get groups will still be /master 1 mana regen lfg. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>has there been confirmation on the upcoming combat changes with upgrading of skills?</DIV>

Spider

10-07-2006, 04:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Killerbee3000 wrote: the upcoming cobat changes will make casting skill upgrades worth something, so, i assume dove song will be added to the list of buffs that are worth considering, other than that, well, troubs will still have more of a passive role and the way to get groups will still be /master 1 mana regen lfg. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> funny ive never had to do that ... mornaly i say troub lfg and get a dozen different tells asking me for my level and if im within lvl range its followed by invites be it for pvp or pve

Denon

10-07-2006, 06:02 AM

They would need to do a serious overhall on bard skills to get me to play my Traubodor again. I have 4 toons (lowest is 56) - and the Troubador is, by far, the least fun to play.

Spider

10-07-2006, 06:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Denon wrote: They would need to do a serious overhall on bard skills to get me to play my Traubodor again. I have 4 toons (lowest is 56) - and the Troubador is, by far, the least fun to play. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know what ? no one cares if u hate it sooo much then delete or sell ur toon and dont bother posting here good god im sick of all the whining

Killerbee3000

10-07-2006, 03:25 PM

<div><blockquote><hr>VericSauvari wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Killerbee3000 wrote:the upcoming cobat changes will make casting skill upgrades worth something, so, i assume dove song will be added to the list of buffs that are worth considering, other than that, well, troubs will still have more of a passive role and the way to get groups will still be /master 1 mana regen lfg. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>has there been confirmation on the upcoming combat changes with upgrading of skills?</div><hr></blockquote><blockquote> Casting Skill <ul><li>Skill caps have increased from [ 1 * Level ] to [ 1.5 * Level ]</li><li>Uses a diminishing returns curve similar to avoidance skills</li><li>Actual hostile spell resistance modification has increased from -10% to -20% at maximum</li><li>Beneficial spells that use casting skill, mostly affecting ministration, have their power costs reduced with increased skill</li><li>Fizzle nevermore! The entire Fizzle mechanic has been removed</li></ul></blockquote> <blockquote> Focus Skill <ul><li>Skill caps have increased from [ 1 * Level ] to [ 1.5 * Level ]</li><li>Focus has a maximum 20% instead of 10% to prevent damage interrupts</li><li>Focus Skill also mitigates the chance of spell based Interrupts, Stifle, and Stun Effects from interrupting a spell that is already casting</li></ul>that is where i got my theory from regarding my statement that buffing the casting skills will be worth it. </blockquote></div>

ForgottenFoundling

10-07-2006, 09:03 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Denon wrote: They would need to do a serious overhall on bard skills to get me to play my Traubodor again. I have 4 toons (lowest is 56) - and the Troubador is, by far, the least fun to play. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know what ? no one cares if u hate it sooo much then delete or sell ur toon and dont bother posting here good god im sick of all the whining <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know what? people care about his troubador hate about as much as your troubador love opinions are fine, but when one is arguing about a classes mechanics, then you need to be at a similar place to compare. Almost all of the people that are "whining" are people at the game's level cap (I won't use the word "endgame" since that can be had at any level supposedly...). At level cap there isn't much to do except raid, roll an alt or farm for plat (there is always pvp on pvp servers, so that's nothing new). The troubador isn't "fun" for many people because they feel that their active contribution to any scenario is mostly for naught due to our mediocrity in most everything. We basically need all master spells, do some damage and that's about all that's expected of us because our passive buffs are what people want from us. It's a lame and a flawed character design that they continually stick us with. We are the table scraps and they fear to make us "too powerful" so we remain gimped.

Spider

10-07-2006, 11:24 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ForgottenFoundling wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Denon wrote: They would need to do a serious overhall on bard skills to get me to play my Traubodor again. I have 4 toons (lowest is 56) - and the Troubador is, by far, the least fun to play. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know what ? no one cares if u hate it sooo much then delete or sell ur toon and dont bother posting here good god im sick of all the whining <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know what? people care about his troubador hate about as much as your troubador love opinions are fine, but when one is arguing about a classes mechanics, then you need to be at a similar place to compare. Almost all of the people that are "whining" are people at the game's level cap (I won't use the word "endgame" since that can be had at any level supposedly...). At level cap there isn't much to do except raid, roll an alt or farm for plat (there is always pvp on pvp servers, so that's nothing new). The troubador isn't "fun" for many people because they feel that their active contribution to any scenario is mostly for naught due to our mediocrity in most everything. We basically need all master spells, do some damage and that's about all that's expected of us because our passive buffs are what people want from us. It's a lame and a flawed character design that they continually stick us with. We are the table scraps and they fear to make us "too powerful" so we remain gimped. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> you know its fine if u wanna talk mechanics and figures and ideas and concenpts on whats wrong with the class and how u would like to see it improved but jsut comming in with this class isnt fun i never play it whats the point in that ??? there is none and if thats all he has to offer then he needs to delelete or sell his toon and move along to another board

Denon

10-09-2006, 07:44 AM

<DIV>Why do I pop on and just say it not fun without discussing all the mechanics?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Because the Troubador was my main character, It was my first character to hit the L60's, and I played a bard in EQ1. In EQ2 I really enjoyed him the first 9 months, and diden't mind the challange of playing a slightly more difficult class - but then the nerfs began. I use to post about the mechanices and the problems back when the nerfs occured, but obviously it did not make any difference, the nerfs just continued.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Delete my character ? Well actually I canceled my acount, and let my money do the talking for a few months and went and played WoW, just like many of my friends. But after grouping with people that ended up being kids trying to mess with you and listening to all the 12 year olds yelling at eachother on the LFG channel, I started missing the fact that most people in EQ2 are really nice and cool to meet and hang out with, (and dont tell you to go delete your toon). So - I decided to give EQ2 another chance and try playing some other character types.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I started playing again and thats when I really realized how bad the Troubador was compared to the other classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However - I am really hoping to some day play my bard again, - so I continue to occasionally check the bords hoping to see some nice change coming. Thats what brought my attention to this thread - but when I see nothing that is really going to make any big impact - I sometimes throw out my 2c - its mostly out of frustration that I invested a year into a toon that I basically am throwing away because of SOE nerfage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

Cuz

10-09-2006, 06:43 PM

Antipalad

10-09-2006, 07:49 PM

If you are so sick about the whining why do you visit these boards in the first place?The whining won't stop untill Sony actually fixes the class for PvE, that's right, PvE which the most of the EQ2 population is still playing.We currently have spells that have been broken since DoF launch (read Zander's), we currently have AA's and spells that have the worst scaling imaginably as you progress through the tiers, and the main difference between a great troub and a poor troub on raids is generally down to the quality of the buffs they have and if they're running the proper buffs for their group setups.We have valid complaints about the way troubadors work for PvE.

Jeger_Wulf

10-09-2006, 09:24 PM

> but jsut comming in with this class isnt fun i never play it whats the point in that ??? The point is the class isn't fun and he never plays it. Seems like a pretty good point to me. It seems to me the point most people make is that the troub may be valuable and have decent DPS, but it isn't fun to play. BTW my troub isn't fun and I rarely play him either. > if thats all he has to offer then he needs to delelete or sell his toon and move > along to another board Silly suggestion - why should he delete a toon that was his main? I am not deleting my troub. IMO he needs to keep his troub and hope they improve it. In the meantime, he can come here and tell us why he isn't playing it. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jaimster

10-10-2006, 01:22 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kajinryu wrote: <DIV> Oh, and although many of the remarks seem directed straight for you, Jaimster, I assure you they're not. At least not in entirety, your opinions were valid to my previous points, as ignorant as you percieve them (as a level 70 raiding troub). Who seriously plays a game in a way they aren't having some fun in, week in, week out? OMGZ, I'll lose my guild if I don't raid with them constantly; who cares? Roll an alt and ditch them if they won't let you play the way you want to. You could roll another troub if the class is so fun and ideal for you. Whatever, not as if I should care all that much about what you do, how you play, and why that makes you 1,000 times the human being that I'll ever be. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Neither of us is going to win this debate... I just wanted to say that I don't think I'm better than you because you don't have a level 70 troubador. I think I know more about playing the class at level 70 in this particular game than you do because you don't have a level 70 troubador. I'm not sure how you could argue that point... but anyway, I"m glad you have fun playing the game, in your playstyle and I hope you continue to...

Sunlei

10-10-2006, 08:29 PM

I want my troubies good charm back. It was fun to fight with a charmed pet. todays 8 second charm is like a joke to me. When my scout was forced to pick a class in order to log into the game, I picked the scout with group buffage & a 'good' charm spell(a bard!) was fun for a while 'till that huge charm change. wish i picked a scout that retained more of it's solo dps. That's what I want, my charm back the way is was. A waiting, no adventuring bard, frozen in time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cuz

10-10-2006, 08:38 PM

<DIV>My big problem with troubs is that I really can't recomend them to other players. You want someone with utility and a dab of crowd control? Roll a swash. In my guild I'm the only "active" troub left, everyone rolled something else post 40.</DIV>

Spider

10-11-2006, 02:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mbolme wrote: > but jsut comming in with this class isnt fun i never play it whats the point in that ??? The point is the class isn't fun and he never plays it. Seems like a pretty good point to me. It seems to me the point most people make is that the troub may be valuable and have decent DPS, but it isn't fun to play. BTW my troub isn't fun and I rarely play him either. > if thats all he has to offer then he needs to delelete or sell his toon and move > along to another board Silly suggestion - why should he delete a toon that was his main? I am not deleting my troub. IMO he needs to keep his troub and hope they improve it. In the meantime, he can come here and tell us why he isn't playing it. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> simply saying it isnt fun offers nothign and is pointless so u think its not fun ? then tell everyone why its not fun to you not everyones idea of fun is the same so you dont play it ? then how can u know with all the constant little tweaks and changes taht effect everyone or effect other classes u face that it still isnt fun ? he has offered nothign with his comment and THAT is why its uneeded im not saying u gotta love it but odnt just come in with its not fun i dont play it and offer nothing to the group it helps nothign and realy ticks some of us off i mean heck do i think troub is perfect ? heck naw could it use improvements ? most defniately but that said its still a great class and with some small positive changes could be fantastic

VericSauvari

10-11-2006, 05:32 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaimster wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kajinryu wrote: <DIV> Oh, and although many of the remarks seem directed straight for you, Jaimster, I assure you they're not. At least not in entirety, your opinions were valid to my previous points, as ignorant as you percieve them (as a level 70 raiding troub). Who seriously plays a game in a way they aren't having some fun in, week in, week out? OMGZ, I'll lose my guild if I don't raid with them constantly; who cares? Roll an alt and ditch them if they won't let you play the way you want to. You could roll another troub if the class is so fun and ideal for you. Whatever, not as if I should care all that much about what you do, how you play, and why that makes you 1,000 times the human being that I'll ever be. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Neither of us is going to win this debate... I just wanted to say that I don't think I'm better than you because you don't have a level 70 troubador. I think I know more about playing the class at level 70 in this particular game than you do because you don't have a level 70 troubador. I'm not sure how you could argue that point... but anyway, I"m glad you have fun playing the game, in your playstyle and I hope you continue to... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> clearly someone who is a 5-30 something troub who does not even have all the debuffs/abilities that a level 70 troubador has also has the same knowledge, playing experience and raiding experience to pull from.....right?

Cuz

10-11-2006, 06:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> lspiderl wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mbolme wrote: > but jsut comming in with this class isnt fun i never play it whats the point in that ??? The point is the class isn't fun and he never plays it. Seems like a pretty good point to me. It seems to me the point most people make is that the troub may be valuable and have decent DPS, but it isn't fun to play. BTW my troub isn't fun and I rarely play him either. > if thats all he has to offer then he needs to delelete or sell his toon and move > along to another board Silly suggestion - why should he delete a toon that was his main? I am not deleting my troub. IMO he needs to keep his troub and hope they improve it. In the meantime, he can come here and tell us why he isn't playing it. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> simply saying it isnt fun offers nothign and is pointless so u think its not fun ? then tell everyone why its not fun to you Because your main contribution is of the "Fire and Forget" variety. After you've cast your buff that's that. You are now a low damage scout. Healers if they don't stay active your team can die. Same thing for tanks. The other scouts get the fun of seeing the big numbers flying, they can actually see the health bar go down by their contribution. The enchanters are just rediculous in what they can do if they're attentive. Troubs, not so much. not everyones idea of fun is the same True, and the same can be said about what is not fun, yet you wanted a list. so you dont play it ? I'm playing my troub more then ever. I figure he can only get better. then how can u know with all the constant little tweaks and changes taht effect everyone or effect other classes u face that it still isnt fun ? Because most of those little tweaks were at the expense of the troub! After a while of playing, you can pretty much read the updates and have agood idea of what to expect. he has offered nothign with his comment and THAT is why its uneeded The same can be said about gleeful optimism. Saying "I like playing my class" is as helpful as "I don't like playing my class" if the goal is to improve said class. im not saying u gotta love it but odnt just come in with its not fun i dont play it and offer nothing to the group it helps nothign and realy ticks some of us off The troub class has been getting duller and duller for the better part of the year now. The reasons why have been said over and over again. i mean heck do i think troub is perfect ? heck naw could it use improvements ? most defniately but that said its still a great class and with some small positive changes could be fantastic <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>

Jaimster

10-16-2006, 11:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VericSauvari wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> clearly someone who is a 5-30 something troub who does not even have all the debuffs/abilities that a level 70 troubador has also has the same knowledge, playing experience and raiding experience to pull from.....right?</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> =) /sigh... lack of logic can be mindboggling can't it? (And I realize your post is sarcastic... )

pikeymoose

10-23-2006, 04:44 AM

<DIV>I have not played my 70 troubador with all t7 masters (except 3 of them), since Sony totalled our cc abilities. I have come back to the board to read about progress, and hope that our class is viable again someday. My Coercer started from scratch and is nearly 62 now, and has much of what was taken away from the troubador. (be 70 if not for the tradeskilling and questing)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep my fingers crossed for a fix sometime in the next 12 months.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moose</DIV>

Jeger_Wulf

10-23-2006, 07:13 PM

> simply saying it isnt fun offers nothign and is pointless > so u think its not fun ? then tell everyone why its not fun to you If you want to know why he thinks it's not fun, just ask him. Telling him he "offers nothing" is pointless. Hwowever, it's been discussed a lot. Everyone pretty much knows why it's not fun to most people - playing a troubadour is too much like playing a buff bot. I don't know why troubadours were nerfed to help coercers and illusionists. IMO you don't nerf one of the least-played classes to help another of the least-played classes. > most defniately but that said its still a great class and with > some small positive changes could be fantastic I'm glad you like it - mine has been pretty boring since the nerfs.

Kraks_Aforty

10-24-2006, 12:02 PM

Notice how most of the top end veteran troubs aren't posting?Its because we're all off playing berserkers.<div></div>

vinterskugge

10-24-2006, 03:16 PM

<DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kraks_Aforty wrote: Notice how most of the top end veteran troubs aren't posting? Its because we're all off playing berserkers. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's actually cos we quit altogether (well me and Angua did anyway).

VericSauvari

10-24-2006, 04:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kraks_Aforty wrote: Notice how most of the top end veteran troubs aren't posting? Its because we're all off playing berserkers. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> It's actually cos we quit altogether (well me and Angua did anyway). <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> yeah i saw you are selling your troub <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jaimster

10-25-2006, 10:22 PM

To Vinterskugge: You both quit? I knew Angua had... it's sad it came to that... I really enjoyed the info/debates/discussions with the both of you. Good luck with everything!

Goddfath

10-26-2006, 03:35 AM

<DIV>yeah...its sad to see all of the troubs i looked up to quitting the game...</DIV>