Troubs and raids - melee or caster group?

[Bantel]

<DIV>In looking at the various Troub buffs, I can't decide where to best use a Troub on a raid.</DIV> <DIV>So, please give me your opinion. </DIV> <DIV>Is a Troub <STRONG>best</STRONG> suited for a caster heavy group, a melee heavy group, or a mixed group, and why?</DIV> <P>*Edited for Spelling</P><p>Message Edited by Bantel on <span class=date_text>09-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span>

[loveybutt]

Casters...easily and by far, casters..BUT we can work with melee, just not quite like a dirge. Casters: We get a proc that only procs on hostile spells (not melee ones), 30% to inflict so much damage.., another short term spell, precision of the maestro that inflicts an extra couple hundred damage on spells only  for 30 seconds...Not that its really used often, but we get a spell that increases subjugation, ordination, and all those other castery things.. Melee: we do have a master 1 26% haste that would help melee classes, and master 1 group str/sta buff  tahts around 90, but chances are most will have their str close to cap any way.. and our hate decrease works with scouts jst as much as casters.. People tend to say dirge is idea for melee group, and troubs casters... Dirge gets melee procs and short term extra haste/melee damage spells, as well as increase pierce/slash etc etc, and a dps mod... and some other cool melee things.. hobs, 70 troub nagafen server, havoc guild <div></div>

[Bantel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> loveybutt wrote:<BR><BR><BR>Casters: We get a proc that only procs on hostile spells (not melee ones), 30% to inflict so much damage<BR>hobs, <BR>70 troub nagafen server,<BR>havoc guild<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That would be the Aria of Acclamation line?</P> <P>Does that also affect the Summoner pets such as a Mage pet?</P> <P>And lastly, does this affect pets? Alin's Serene Serenade</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Goris]

Caster group all the way....  puts casters on top of dps parses and most times with top hit.  If that is important to you... 

[ForgottenFoundling]

<P>mixed groups</P> <P>Decrease the hate of your highest dps classes (assassins and swashies), keep your warlocks alive and have the casters that are in the group use their buffs to add to the dps of the melee types.</P> <P>Also, Bladedance benefits melee types more than caster types since they can ranged and generally avoid AoEs.</P>

[Thrashercat]

<DIV>I suppose it really can depend on how many troubs you have available. If there is only one, then a mixed group would probably be best because then you can reduce hate on casters as well as your heavy dps (assasins, brigands, swashies, rangers) plus help up casters with your Dove Song, Aria and Precision and melee with haste and Jester's Cap. I think in all actuality troubs are meant for casting groups because of our buffs and proc spells, but we can work in any group really, even MT group in a pinch:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Bantel]

<P>Well, our long term goal is to have 4 Bards in our x4 raid force.</P> <P>Already have a Dirge in MT group. </P> <P>I'll be levelling my Troub, and then we want to recruit/PL 2 more bards.</P> <P>Can't decide on 2 Dirge and 2 Troubs or 1 Dirge and 3 Troubs, based on a fairly even mix of caster vs melee.</P> <P>Thanks all for your responses.</P>

[Dwergux]

<blockquote><hr>ForgottenFoundling wrote:<div></div><p>Also, Bladedance benefits melee types more than caster types since they can ranged and generally avoid AoEs.</p><hr></blockquote>Bladedance is a class Achievement, thus dirges (can) get it too.<blockquote><hr>Thrashercat wrote:<div></div>plus help up casters with your Dove Song<hr></blockquote>The effect of Dove Song is highly debated, from what I understand is the effect of it is neglectable and the concentration slot is better used for another buff.I listened to Scafloc for my buffs in a (mixed) raid group and use: Bria, Raxxl, Aria, Alin, Opus/edit..corrected name of second poster due to manual quoting<p>Message Edited by Dwergux on <span class=date_text>09-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:39 AM</span>

[Qwestionator]

 I personally always rune dove song - when i solo pvp it helps with resists alot and in a caster group is helps them land spells, The effects arent directly noticeable but most of what im concerned with is solo pvp and i know that it helps with resists.  But yes, Alin's will help any dps group casters or melee - its just more standard that the troub is in casters because aria - dove - alins - precision etc<div></div>

[Thrashercat]

It really is a toss-up with Dove Song, however when I have a mezzer that needs to keep multiple mobs mezzed for any length of time, I keep it up and their mezzes stick. Plus it helps your own mez sticks if you are called upon to use it as I had been asked fairly recently. That is just my two cents:smileyhappy:

[ForgottenFoundling]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dwergux wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ForgottenFoundling wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Also, Bladedance benefits melee types more than caster types since they can ranged and generally avoid AoEs.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Bladedance is a class Achievement, thus dirges (can) get it too.<BR><BR> <P>  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not debating this in the least, but the general consensus of raiding troubs is that all should go Str/Wis AAs for raiding.  The benefit of Bladedance is that it will allow people to avoid an AE (typically NOT casters, esp with the effect radius of the spell).  So, if the consensus advises the use of Bladedance for a raiding troub, that has to mean there are most likely meleers in the group.  Thus a "mixed" group is the best way to maximize dps in a raid (even with multiple troubs).<BR>

[Anvilhead]

If you like AE avoidance...then it doesn't matter.If you like the power regen...then it doesn't matter.As for the rest, I'll say that it is true that my dirge is more melee friendly, while Troubs seem to be more mage friendly. However, Troubadors can help the melee dps in many ways as well. My dirge on the other hand, provides little beyond power regen to a bunch of Wizards/Warlocks.Beyond all that I would probably use three troubador's and one dirge for the simple reason. Aggro up on the MT, Aggro Down on everyone else that should be DPS.That's just my 2cp. My troubadour is still very young, so I admit to having limited troubador knowledge.

[Rampagious]

The fact of the matter is, we should/will always have melee/caster mix in our groups - dirges may help melee more but, DPS groups are formed around troubs, not dirges.<div></div>

[Zebul]

<DIV>I didn't know where else to put this, but I just came back from a VERY long break from EQ2, and I have a level 14 bard just sitting around.  As soon as I log into him I'm going to have to choose between a Troubador and a Dirge, so I've been trying to decide which one I want to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In order to make a decision, obviously I need to know what I want to do with my class.  Obviously since I made my bard I want to have utility and I want to help out the group.  The main thing, however, is that I want to be able to fit in well with as many different groups as possible, so a good balance of buffing for casters and melee's would be nice.  Another thing that I am looking at is soloing for those times when I simply can't get a group...  I know that Dirge's probably solo better due to their melee buffs, but can Troubador's at least solo well enough to make <EM>some</EM> progress?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If anyone could just put a brief synopsis of the differences between the two classes as well, that would be really helpful.  For example, what are the real differences between them and what does it mean for the group?  Thanks in advance for the help!</DIV>

[Dwergux]

<blockquote><hr>Zebulun wrote:<DIV>I didn't know where else to put this, but I just came back from a VERY long break from EQ2, and I have a level 14 bard just sitting around.  As soon as I log into him I'm going to have to choose between a Troubador and a Dirge, so I've been trying to decide which one I want to be.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>In order to make a decision, obviously I need to know what I want to do with my class.  Obviously since I made my bard I want to have utility and I want to help out the group.  The main thing, however, is that I want to be able to fit in well with as many different groups as possible, so a good balance of buffing for casters and melee's would be nice.  Another thing that I am looking at is soloing for those times when I simply can't get a group...  I know that Dirge's probably solo better due to their melee buffs, but can Troubador's at least solo well enough to make <EM>some</EM> progress?</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If anyone could just put a brief synopsis of the differences between the two classes as well, that would be really helpful.  For example, what are the real differences between them and what does it mean for the group?  Thanks in advance for the help!</DIV><hr></blockquote>I think troubadours are more flexible in their buffs, they can buff melee and casters whereas dirges tend to have very little to add to casters.Troubadours can solo for <em>some</em> progress. They just solo differently. The DPS of a troubadour might be a bit lower, but troubadours offer other strategies to solo (after 50 you can mez kite, it's slow, but rather safe for single (note, single doesn't have to meen solo) mobs)

[Nainitsuj]

When working with a summoner, find out which pet they prefer to use.  The mage pet works best with a troub, the tank / scout pet works best with a dirge.  If you stick a summoner who uses a melee pet in with a troub who's running mage buffs, he'll curse your name all night.

[Zebul]

<DIV>I decided to go with a Troubador because he seems to fit in a little better in a wider variety of groups.  Thanks for the help!</DIV>

[Myk]

<P>I agree that mixed groups are the way to go.  Although casters could benefit most from our buffs, some caster buffs (like melee proc buffs) are wasted if you have a troub, healer, and 4 casters.  I would say that you would want at least another scout with the troub so the caster melee proc buffs don't get wasted.</P> <P> </P>