Raiding as a troubadour

[Dwergux]

I'm going to swtich characters and play my troubadour more.I'm already brining my troubdour to raids.I normally play:- Bria's- Alin'sAnd fill the other 3 conc slots with needed buffs. Other buffs I use are:- RoR- Raxyls- Opus- ResistsDuring fights I currently try to stay at range (I'm still too low level, so I can easily get 1 shotted with AE's)Last night we went to temple of scale. Most of the things I tried in combat was debuffing (Kian's for wis debuff, Lore's for defense debuff, Snare for the mental debuff, back attack for the MR debuff and Sneak attack for the Int debuff).Which of these have the highest priority? (or are they just useless?) And what do you normaly do on raids?

[Sanju]

Take RoR off your hotbar. Resists are not typically needed, either (might be useful for a beginning raiding guild).Lore's is useful only for flipping HO's.Sneak attack only if you have bump.As for what we do on raids ... the only active role we have on raids is dps/debuffing. The main reason we're even on the raid to begin with (buffs) is passive. You can be a bit more active on raids if you use Jester's Cap a lot (or Bladedance if you have the STR AA line).<div></div>

[Dwergux]

I thought RoR was fixed and now more usefull, atleast I remember reading a halolujah post about some time ago.So what buffs do you recommend instead of RoR and resists (I know they are situational, therefore they aren't in the "awlays on" list <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Why aren't you playing Aria?</DIV>

[Dwergux]

<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<DIV>Why aren't you playing Aria?</DIV><hr></blockquote>I knew I was forgetting one spell <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Yup, aria is also in my always played list.

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dwergux wrote:<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div>Why aren't you playing Aria?</div><hr></blockquote>I knew I was forgetting one spell <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Yup, aria is also in my always played list.<hr></blockquote>depends on group setup, its either haste (if you have tons of scouts and fighties in group) or aria if you have mages in groups (for yourself you dont need aria, its pointless as your dps is low without it and stays low with it, however, once you have 2 or more mages in the group its a must). the other buffs are power regen, anti aggro, agi /int self buff, and then one more depending on situation, i.e. str/sta buff on nameds with hard aoes if resists dont help, otherwise resists or if you have mage that are lower lvl put up dovesong. your personal dps isnt important better improve the other ones. </div>

[terzaghi]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>Everyone has pretty much summed it up so far, but I don't see why people are so ga ga (sp?) over Bria's.  Honestly most mobs fall fast and my groups never seem to be sucking wind without it.  I have it up frequently though because, well, what else would I play? <div></div><p>Message Edited by terzaghi on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:40 PM</span>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Killerbee3000 wrote:<div>depends on group setup, its either haste (if you have tons of scouts and fighties in group) or aria if you have mages in groups (<b>for yourself you dont need aria</b>, its pointless as your dps is low without it and stays low with it, however, once you have 2 or more mages in the group its a must). the other buffs are power regen, anti aggro, <b>agi /int self buff</b>, and then one more depending on situation, i.e. str/sta buff on nameds with hard aoes if resists dont help, otherwise resists or if you have mage that are lower lvl put up dovesong. your personal dps isnt important better improve the other ones. </div><hr></blockquote>The bolded areas are contradictory, since the power gained from the extra agility would be negligible. Running a self buff during a raid shows 1 of 2 things: a poor, selfish bard -- or a bad raid leader.Dove song is also a spell to remove from your hotbar. On my Conjuror I had no problem landing spells and doing decent dps even aginst red mobs in courts (with no disruption, etc. buffs).</div>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Alin's, Aria, Bria's, Raxxyl's, Opus.  99% of the time this is the optimal buff combination, regardless of group.</DIV>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div>Alin's, Aria, Bria's, Raxxyl's, Opus.  99% of the time this is the optimal buff combination, regardless of group.</div><hr></blockquote>Raxxyls and Opus don't help the 5 mages (or 4 mages and 1 fury) in my group! DUH!</div>

[loveybutt]

Running a self buff isnt completely uselss, the extra int. for a troub who doesnt have int maxed, adds damage to things like PotM and arias, which in turn add to everyone elses dps... <div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

I thought buffs like PotM was based on individual int, not your own.  Have I been misinformed?

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> loveybutt wrote:<BR>Running a self buff isnt completely uselss, the extra int. for a troub who doesnt have int maxed, adds damage to things like PotM and arias, which in turn add to everyone elses dps...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Those aren't based off your own INT, they're based off the caster's INT.

[thorvang]

<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<DIV>Alin's, Aria, Bria's, Raxxyl's, Opus.  99% of the time this is the optimal buff combination, regardless of group.</DIV><hr></blockquote>same here.if you were in a pure caster group you could drop raxxyls and opus. but what to use instead? i don't see any other buff that's more useful... or even useful. so i rather stick to those 5 buffs.

[Seddo]

The selfbuff does really not help the raid. The differance in your dps and power is absolutly negiable.-Alin's is definitly a must in every grp, no matter whats in it. It should always be your goal to draw as less aggro as possible.-Bria's is also a must in every grp.The other three slots depend on grp if you ask me.In a mages grp:-Aria-Dove Song-While fighting trash mobs Raxxyl's and a suitable resistance buff in boss fights.In a dps grp:-Raxxyl's-Opus-Quirons for trash mobs and a suitable resistance buff in boss fights.In mixed grps:-Raxxyl's-Either Opus or Aria-Quirons or ResistanceSo far everyone was happy with the buffs. Often heard "oh nice ur runnin <insert name>". Happend only very rarly that one asked for another buff.<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Dove Song and Quirons are probably our two most useless buffs.  Qurions is nice for soloing, Dove Song just sucks.</DIV>

[ForgottenFoundling]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dove Song and Quirons are probably our two most useless buffs.  Qurions is nice for soloing, Dove Song just sucks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Dove song isn't that bad.  It does help the resistance rate and is useful in places like the monk trials where time is of the essence and you can't afford many resists.  The song works.

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I've parsed it and it really makes no difference.  I barely get resisted with or without it.</DIV>

[Crombie]

<DIV>I personally agree with every point that Angua and Scafloc have mentioned.  Alin's, Aria, Bria's, Raxxyl's, and Opus are indeed the setup that have showed the optimum efficiency<FONT face=Arial><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff> </FONT></SPAN>for almost any dps group.  A good number of our buffs just aren't worth what these 5 can do.</FONT></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>the only other buff I question sometimes is Dove Song ~ depending on if im in a group with a good number of healers (which is very rare) is that it tends to help them with their fizzle rate.  Less fizzled heals = tank stays alive.  Besides that my Dove Song has been tucked away in the back of my mind gathering cobwebs</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Crombie on <span class=date_text>08-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 AM</span>

[Nainitsuj]

Is there any of the 5 important buffs that don't exist in master form?  I've heard that the mana regen didn't have a master yet.

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I have all five at master.</DIV>

[Sanju]

Keep in mind, though, that you don't really need Alin's at Master -- as long as it's aa 40% Alin's you're golden (which can be obtained from the previous tier Master, T7 Adept I (maybe lower?), T7 Master, etc.).<div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

I have Alin's, Raxxyl's and Aria at M1.  I've just never met anyone who's had Bria's in master.  The guild's dirge says he's still looking for it.  Just wondering if I should waste a loam on the Ad 3 or wait for the master?  Same with Opus.

[Seddo]

Any1 ever tried if Balletic Avoidance makes any differance in a raidgrp? Sometimes I run the buff when Im in the MA grp instead of Quirons.<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

Neither is any good.  +Defence helps the tank slightly (not much though, they'll likely be capped), but when are troubadors grouped with a tank?

[Sanju]

I sometimes have a tank for Princes.<div></div>

[Seddo]

Im quiet often in the MA. Mostly 1 Tank 2 Healer 1 Troub (me) 2 Mages. <div></div>

[Nainitsuj]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> Neither is any good.  +Defence helps the tank slightly (not much though, they'll likely be capped), but when are troubadors grouped with a tank?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guild is thinking about putting me with a monk.  I think that's kind of pointless.  His stats, mit, defense and avoid is near cap and he can self buff haste to cap.  All he'll be getting is a proc buff and mana regen.

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> Neither is any good.  +Defence helps the tank slightly (not much though, they'll likely be capped), but when are troubadors grouped with a tank?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guild is thinking about putting me with a monk.  I think that's kind of pointless.  His stats, mit, defense and avoid is near cap and he can self buff haste to cap.  All he'll be getting is a proc buff and mana regen.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If I could only have one major change to the troubs, it would be for Alin's to affect anyone (including fighters) who is NOT in a DEFENSIVE stance.  That would do two things: a) allow fighter aggro [Removed for Content] like zerkers and brawlers get the 40% reduced hate when they aren't the tank and b) allow for a non-holy-trinity type group setup with a swash or brig tanking when they ARE in defensive stance to not get the hate decreaser.  Then it would be entirely useful for the monk to be in your group...<BR>

[ForgottenFoundling]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaimster wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nainitsuj wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> Neither is any good.  +Defence helps the tank slightly (not much though, they'll likely be capped), but when are troubadors grouped with a tank?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>My guild is thinking about putting me with a monk.  I think that's kind of pointless.  His stats, mit, defense and avoid is near cap and he can self buff haste to cap.  All he'll be getting is a proc buff and mana regen.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If I could only have one major change to the troubs, it would be for Alin's to affect anyone (including fighters) who is NOT in a DEFENSIVE stance.  That would do two things: a) allow fighter aggro [Removed for Content] like zerkers and brawlers get the 40% reduced hate when they aren't the tank and b) allow for a non-holy-trinity type group setup with a swash or brig tanking when they ARE in defensive stance to not get the hate decreaser.  Then it would be entirely useful for the monk to be in your group...<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>"b" can be accomplished quite easily with the current mechanics.  Just have the "tank" cancel the buff off of his or herself. 

[Dwergux]

So to summarize:1. Buffs:- Bria's- Alin's- Aria- Opus- Raxxl2. Actions (in this order:- Buff (as above) - This is a passive action- Debuff- Contribute to the damage done on mob. Now I have another questions:What kind of hexdoll do you recommend for debuffing? I was thinking about a STR hex doll

[Nainitsuj]

I have all 5 made up for when I hit that level.  My main roll, as I understand it, is to buff and debuff.  So I might as well do it all.