Raiding Troubador needs tips for more dps

[DanKa]

<DIV>Good afternoon and thank you for viewing my thread.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have played this wonderful Troubador class ever since I began playing about 18 months ago.  For the last 2 months I have been with a "hardcore raiding guild".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before I get to the issue at hand, I want to assure everyone reading that I am aware I will never come close to the dps of other scout classes, I also know that the parses are not always 100 percent accurate, and most importantly I am aware that Troubadors are NOT a dps class but are desiged rather to boost dps.  As far as my gear goes, I can't do too much better.  I have all masters/adept 3s and alot of fabled gear.  I wear Relic BP and Legs to boost Steal Essence and Flawless shrill.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that said, I am only hitting around 400 dps on average and I feel that it is very possible to get more.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Conc buffs are as follows:  Bria's, Aria of Acclamation, Daelis, Alins, and Dove Song/Invig Opus (depends on the rest of my group).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have completed the wis AA line and am 3 AA points from finishing the int line.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After the pull I lay Demoralizing Processional, Zanders, Disheartening Discante, Kians Anthem, and sometimes hex dolls.  Once debuffed I throw Guvienas on the mob to lower mental resist and play Maestro.  After this is all done its usually max cast from there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder if I need to switch up my casting order or if there are any hints/tips that anyone could suggest?  </DIV>

[Sanju]

Why on earth would you go INT line? I mean I know Coin Toss is uber and all (incoming nerf!) but still ...<blockquote><hr>DanKain wrote:<div> </div> <div>After the pull I lay Demoralizing Processional <font color="#ff0000">(non-damage debuff)</font>, Zanders <font color="#ff0000">(non-damage debuff)</font>, Disheartening Discante <font color="#ff0000">(non-damage debuff)</font>, Kians Anthem <font color="#ff0000">(low damage debuff/DoT)</font>, and sometimes hex dolls <font color="#ff0000">(incredibly long cast time, non-damage debuff)</font>.  Once debuffed I throw Guvienas on the mob to lower mental resist and play Maestro.  After this is all done its usually max cast from there.</div><hr></blockquote>I tried to max cast once, but pulled a muscle. Oh, to answer your question - PEBKAC.<div></div>

[DanKa]

<P>Thanks for the response</P> <P>What would you recommend instead of the int line and why?</P> <P>And would you care to break down the meaning of PEBKAC?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Sanju]

Answer a few questions for me:What weapons do you normally use?What's your typical raid group?Typically during a raid you STR is  ... ?INT ... ?Haste ... ?DPS Mod ... ?What's your ratio of melee attacks to ranged attacks? (i.e. you are in melee range x% of the time, and bow range x% of the time)That'll do for now ...<div></div>

[DanKa]

<P>I carry 2 fabled DWs' rated 59.8 and 63.1, bow is rated around 79 (n00b error not taking Grizfazzles)</P> <P>My group is usually consisting of 4 mages and a healer.  To be more specific 1 Warden, 2 Summoners, 2 Sorcerers.</P> <P>During raids, my stats (rough estimate) are as follows:</P> <P>350 str</P> <P>530 int</P> <P>0 - 28% haste (depends if its a no pet fight for the conjurers, tend to swap with dove song)</P> <P>0 dps mod</P> <P>I'd say about 80-85 percent of my fights are up close and personal (aka trash mobs) and 15-20 percent I'm using my bow.  </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by DanKain on <span class=date_text>07-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:56 PM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<P>Delete Dove Song from your hotbar and stick to haste.</P> <P>Get a haste item - Deathtoll access one is best.  Get every spell proc item you can (especially the Mystical Orb earring)</P> <P>If you've got 4 casters in the group, get them all to put their procs on you.  Then make sure your longest delay weapon is in your primary.</P> <P>Melee all the time, give your healer something to do.</P> <P>Use every spell/combat art you can as often as you can.</P> <P>AAs aren't important.  We can boost our dps using specific paths, but I took the ones that benefitted my raid more.</P>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I'd drop Daelis for Raxxyls too.  You should be able to max your int with Necro/Wizard buffs and potions.</DIV>

[SeregWethrin]

You should always run doves in a raid as it will increase the casters dps more than you could ever hope to increase yours by replacing it.   Honestly you shouldnt be caring about your dps on a raid.  You want to run spells that help the dps of the casters you are grouped with.  Also When you Pom make sure you cast all your debuffs again as they proc from PoM.  Honestly you do decent dps for a raiding troub.  <div></div>

[ShiroiOokami]

I'd have to agree with the other's, except also you might ask the warden to single target buff you - furies had a str one, not sure what wardens got. Make absolutely sure you get each of the casters to put their proc on you. The wizzy types can also put theirs on the summoner pets if they're using the melee types.Starting the fight I usually cast maestro, (in our raids, our MT gives a call for DPS once he's got hate, in case he's had any resists up front), it doesn't do enough extra damage to get agro even for your casters - and presumably, they're all starting out with debuffs and DOTs as well. Then go with Snare, Kian's, and then all the other's in whatever order you like. After that it's mainly button mashing - think a couple people have mentioned finding long delay fabled weapons and casting spells like Eli's inbetween attacks.As far as maximizing DPS for others go, Bria is pretty much always up, Aria is nice if you're in a pure casting group like you said, Raxxyl's will give you and the summoner melee pets a nice strength bonus and everyone else some stamina, Opus is good for again maximizing your own melee DPS and the summoner pets, and Alin's keeps everyone alive.At 400 DPS, and given you've already mentioned having fabled weapons, it sounds like you guys don't have a brigand, so keep in mind you're probably not going to match the DPS a lot of people have parsed here. That's generally from having the best group set up possible to give you the most procs, and almost constant Dispatch going. Without a brigand, which I've done quite a lot, getting over 700 DPS is doing really good.<div></div>

[Pik'ee]

<div></div>If you're in with 4 casters and a healer, you're the only melee there for the single target procs. Make sure they all apply them, ask for them each time.Warlock - Malignent GraspWizard - PhoenixbladeConjuror - Ember SeedNecro - Doesn't have an appropriate melee proc (that I know of)Fury - Agitate, Fae fire (short duration proc)Warden - Primitive Instinct (not a proc, just boosts yr melee/ranged skills a lot, you loose nothing by having this cast on you)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Pik'ee on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SeregWethrin wrote:<BR>You should always run doves in a raid as it will increase the casters dps more than you could ever hope to increase yours by replacing it.   Honestly you shouldnt be caring about your dps on a raid.  You want to run spells that help the dps of the casters you are grouped with.  Also When you Pom make sure you cast all your debuffs again as they proc from PoM.  Honestly you do decent dps for a raiding troub.  <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>+ to casting skills makes no noticeable difference at all on yellow mobs, and maybe 2% more likely to not be resisted on oranges.  It's totally useless.  Looking at parses, all the casters and bards land their spells 99% of the time as it is, resists are really uncommon.  Haste will do more dps for the raid by far.

[Emerix]

<DIV>Dove song is a waste of conc slots . only helps if you have a caster in your group whos not level 70 . on orange mobs it may be useful .</DIV> <DIV>i usually have selfbuff aria brias flower and raxx running . raxx and selfbuff i switch if theres need for resists or simple hitspeed . i usually dish out 400-600 dps . nothing great but then again i only have  very few raid items . usually i do my mental debuff POM , maintained debuffs and the rest of my spells , combat arts and stuff . i can usually throw around with HOs since the mages uhhh dont seem to care about them *thud*</DIV>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Try going with a mix of casters and scouts instead of all casters - if you can get an assassin in your group, their Apply Poision buff is incredible.</DIV>

[Sanju]

Yes, listen to Scafloc, he's pretty much said it all.Dove's is useless in every situation. It's more useless than Requiem of Reflection. It's more useless than resist buffs. It's more useless than Balletic Avoidance. Useless.AAs aren't needed to help your dps, but there are AAs that would accomplish that ... plus the INT line doesn't really even help your group. It increases the effectiveness of the Haste song (which, in your current group setup only helps you (unless you have a Conj or Necro using a scout pet -- but if you do have a summoner using a scout pet on raids you should slap them)) and the +casting skills (useless, see above). Not sure how much that raises your Haste, but the Master I is 26% (I think, not at home), and yours is at 28% (from the Adept 3, I hope) ...The STR line would be more beneficial to the raid and your group (the bonus to Raxxyls will help your low STR, and the AE avoid is nice (especially when paired with Jester's)). The AGI would increase your personal dps, as would the STA line (if you have a good 1-hander+shield).Weapons: go for long delay. Get the Wyrmslayer, and a Grinning Dirk of Horror when you can. Learn to time your big attacks (lol) with dispatch if you've got a brigand in the raid (make them start macroing that if they don't). Also as Scafloc mentioned, being in a group with 4 casters and a warden is not the best setup.Also note that casting PotM on a single-target mob will almost certainly lower your dps significantly, while not greatly increasing the dps of the casters in your group (long cast times).  I never cast it unless it's a group of 3+ mobs -- it's just not worth it.<div></div>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>SeregWethrin wrote:Honestly you shouldnt be caring about your dps on a raid. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Refer to my post on Bard skill in raids. What else is there to discuss for a raiding Troub? Buffs? That would be an exciting conversation! I can imagine it now ...Angua: Hey Scafloc, how's it going?Scafloc: Good, you?Angua: Can't complain.Scafloc: Hey, you're usually in a dps group in raids, right.Angua: Yes, sir. Where else would I be? In the MT group? hahaScafloc: Haha.Scafloc: So what buffs do you usually have up?Angua: Oh, the usual. Bria's, Alins, Opus, Raxxyl's, Aira. Plus Allegro, Harbinger's and DktM, of course.Angua: You?Scafloc: Same.Scafloc: All Masters?Angua: Yep. You?Scafloc: Yeah.Angua: ...Scafloc: ...Angua: ...Scafloc: ...Angua: You know, this one time I took down Raxxyl's and put up Daelis' since all of the scouts and fighters in the group had max STR.Scafloc: Oh yeah? Sounds like fun.Angua: Yeah, good times.Scafloc: Good times.Angua: ...Scafloc: ...Angua: ...Scafloc: ...Towlie: You guys wanna get high?Angua and Scafloc: SURE!THE END</div>

[Ballads]

<div></div>I'll assume you have a parser(ACT preferably.) Break apart your out going dmg and see where it comes from. Try differnt casting orders and maybe cut ones that aren't that noticable for ones that are. Dont debuff trash! They die to fast why your are debuffing the rest the raid has killed it and movied on. Just think of your debuffs as pom food for AE encounters except on Non-trivial/boss named. If you are gonna cast them throw up pom anyway as i find most mages perfer it early in the fight as aposed to later. If you want to cast hex dolls try to precast them when you can or wait till after the intial burst of dps. Alot of dmg can be done and the initial burst that you dont want to be casting a 8second spell if you dont have to.  Alot of ppl have now seen the light on slow weapons. I parsed a slow and a fast weapon the other day just to see how much it helped. I used Grinning Dirk of Horror(4.0 sec delay 59.8DR  peirce) and windrazor(1.1 delay 61.2DR slash.) For a base line i auto attacked for about 10 encounters. The windrazor usally won by 3-5% and its proc would usally add 2-3% when it went off. Now i fought another 10 encounters . This time spamming abilitys ( everything except bow attacks because this would add peirce dmg from bow attack to parse.) This time the Dirk [Removed for Content] the faster weapon every parse and by 8-12% most fights. I had around 50%haste  no dps mod for these test. You only attack once per weapon max inbetween abilitys when spamming. When you add in the recovery time we spend alot of time casting.(eli's  2.4 with allegro.) Not only is the fast weapon not attacking fast enough to match its dmg rating, but the slow weapon also gains the increased proc modifier for  being in you primary hand. You now also so add in crits to the equation in which it easy to see where a weapon does more dmg per hit is better since your swinging less due to spamming CAs. Lastly AAs. Imo the the 2 best choices for a raiding troub are DKTM and Bladance. DKTM is just leet i mean 7.5% to all kinds of crits for 6 ppl what aa line is gonna more for dps then that ? Bladedances 10 minute reuse timer is a bit extream but so are the effects you get from it. Weather its saving the dps from an AE when the healer drops, allowing the casters to use short range abilitys safely( fusion comes to mind,) making a rough pull easier, or just saving the lives of summoner pets and swarm pets. Now if i were concerned with my personal dps id give either the agi or sta line a try. Both double attack or the bump/clara's combo + poison procs snould give you a decent dps upgrade.  Hope these idea's along with some of the ones other troubs helps. /weapon is your freind when it come to figuring haste and dps mods.Ballads NPU-Guk Dont give me a wedgie Angua ! <div></div><p>Message Edited by pickle27 on <span class=date_text>07-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:39 AM</span>

[DanKa]

<P>Thank you for all the helpful replies</P> <P>I have been keeping my grinning dirk of horror (4 sec delay) in my 2ndary DW slot.  I will move it to primary and see what happens.  I just recently threw my fabled earrings in the bag in favor of the 10% proc earrings.  The 28% haste comes from the adept 3 and 5 points spent on the int aa line.  I know I need to get my DT finished up and that would help.  </P> <P>I haven't been a huge fan of the caster heavy group.  I will see what I can do about getting a class in there which can utilize the haste a bit more.  I know we got a couple of brawlers & assassins.  We do have a brigand there all the time though we are sometimes forced to ask that person to grab their Inquisitor <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and I even have the macro set calling for dispatch when I cast PoM.  </P> <P>There was a time when I was working on the str line and I used my free reset to go int instead.  I will have to research this more it appears.  I will stop using the dove song, maybe play it for Tarinax.  I can drop the solo buff too- though I may end up having to bag some relic to get the int/agi back.  </P> <P> </P>

[Sanju]

Don't even play it for Tarinax. He's more of a smooth jazz lover, but he also quite enjoys R&B and hip hop, too.<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

Time your Jesters so it goes on the brigand just before he dispatches.  More frequent dispatch = more dps for everyone!

[Mimsi]

<P></P> <HR> <P><BR>Angua: Hey Scafloc, how's it going?<BR>Scafloc: Good, you?<BR>Angua: Can't complain.<BR>Scafloc: Hey, you're usually in a dps group in raids, right.<BR>Angua: Yes, sir. Where else would I be? In the MT group? haha<BR>Scafloc: Haha.<BR>Scafloc: So what buffs do you usually have up?<BR>Angua: Oh, the usual. Bria's, Alins, Opus, Raxxyl's, Aira. Plus Allegro, Harbinger's and DktM, of course.<BR>Angua: You?<BR>Scafloc: Same.<BR>Scafloc: All Masters?<BR>Angua: Yep. You?<BR>Scafloc: Yeah.<BR>Angua: ...<BR>Scafloc: ...<BR>Angua: ...<BR>Scafloc: ...<BR>Angua: You know, this one time I took down Raxxyl's and put up Daelis' since all of the scouts and fighters in the group had max STR.<BR>Scafloc: Oh yeah? Sounds like fun.<BR>Angua: Yeah, good times.<BR>Scafloc: Good times.<BR>Angua: ...<BR>Scafloc: ...<BR>Angua: ...<BR>Scafloc: ...<BR>Towlie: You guys wanna get high?<BR>Angua and Scafloc: SURE!<BR></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>rofl ... absolutely spot on  :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P><BR></P>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> pickle27 wrote: <P> Bladedances 10 minute reuse timer is a bit extream but so are the effects you get from it. Weather its saving the dps from an AE when the healer drops, allowing the casters to use short range abilitys safely( fusion comes to mind,) making a rough pull easier, or just saving the lives of summoner pets and swarm pets.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Plus it totally [Removed for Content] Cruor!

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Something to try on group mobs - throw up PotM at the start and have the Wizard cast Ice Lash.  If you can get a cleric, Divine Recovery helps here too.  Once precision is up, stick on Kians, then start spamming all the rest - toggle them off and queue them up again.  You'll be proccing twice on each mob you hit, and if you have that cleric you'll cast twice as many spells as usual.  The other casters will benefit from all this a whole lot too - I'm usually grouped with an illusionist, and his dps goes through the roof with all those procs.</DIV>

[Shadoerider]

<DIV>on a raid pull I talk to my mages and let them know at 80% Maestro will be up once it is up I cast</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kian's Catastrophic Anthem then right as soon as it hits toggle it off.</DIV> <DIV>Demoralizing processional</DIV> <DIV>Disheartening Dicante</DIV> <DIV>Zander's Choral Rebuff ( I know this is a grey spell but it still procs Maestro)</DIV> <DIV>Might Bellow</DIV> <DIV>Alin's Incandescent Concord</DIV> <DIV>Kian's Catastrophic Anthem (2 procs are nice)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By this time most of the adds should be dead depending on the mage makeup of your group then you can do your HO's using spells to progress so it proc's maestro still.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After that I start sending out jester cap on all the healers throughout the entire fight.</DIV>

[Sphinx1975]

If there's an Inquisitor in your group you might ask them to drop their DPS/HP buff onto you (Consecrated Aura, DPS buff as well as an HP buff) as well as their Harrowing Inquest line onto you.  Inquest drains power from the target and gives it to the Inquisitor each time you hit the target.

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Sphinx1975 wrote:If there's an Inquisitor in your group you might ask them to drop their DPS/HP buff onto you (Consecrated Aura, DPS buff as well as an HP buff) as well as their Harrowing Inquest line onto you.  Inquest drains power from the target and gives it to the Inquisitor each time you hit the target. <hr></blockquote> I'm sorry, but any inquistor actually putting Harrowing Inquest onto a bard should be shot, same with any bard suggesting they put it on a bard. It should go onto a predator, rogue, berserker, or brawler before a bard so that way the Inquistor gains more power due to the fact they will be swinging much more often than a bard due to short cast times between each attack.

[Sphinx1975]

My apologies. I was assuming if the Troubador was the only Melee DPS in the group then the Inquis should drop the Harrowing Inquest on the Troubador. Normally in the group I run with I drop it on the Swashbuckler since he hits faster than the monk in our group. Sorry for the confusion, please don't shoot me.

[Dizank]

<DIV>Slightly off topic but does anyone know what collection quest results in the proc earring that is based off hostile spells?</DIV>

[Pins]

<DIV>Mystical Orbs in Barren Sky.</DIV>