Swashbuckler vs Troubador (Need help choosing)

[Terror]

Heya, long time follower and day 1 player coming back from the failed MMO that is WoW. I decided I want to quit my guardian from day 1 and reroll and I am torn quite well between swashbuckler and troubador, so I'm posting this on both boards asking for help in making a choice good with my play style. My interests in my class choice are sime enough. First off, I want to be able to solo when groups aren't to be found. Secondly, I want to be a class that groups want but isn't a healer, I want to be able to provide buffs that my party wants, or even needs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. My last thing is minimal, but I want to be able to not only do good damage, but use cool weapons (dual wield preferred). On a side note, can anyone link me pictures of really well geared players of each class; and do troubadors use instruments like EQ?<div></div>

[loveybutt]

No troubs dont use instruments here.. and swashys will do do better damage, and troubs arent the best of soloers anymore. (got our CC spells drastically reduced which hurt soloing). Our buffs arent bad, we're wanted in raids quite a bit, not sure how compared to swashys though.. We CAN solo ok, fights might be long if youre wanting to fight heroics, but atleast we got a decent mana regen so downtime might be terrible.. and both classes can use duelwields (pretty much the same unless the weapons class specific).. <div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Swashies solo faster than troubadors.  It's possible for troubadors to solo harder mobs, but it will be a slow (often frustrating) process.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Groups will want both.  If you plan on raiding, troubadors are less common and in higher demand, but for grouping a group would usually pick up either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubadors have some great buffs, swashies don't really have any at all (although they have a lot of nice debuffs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubs and swashies can use the same weapons - but a swashbuckler will do a LOT more damage than a troubador.</DIV>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<P>I have played a troubadour to 51 and a swashbuckler to 20, so I am not the most experienced guy, but I would say swashbuckler. The damage increase is amazing, and his utility not too bad either. Troubadours give up too much DPS.</P> <P>Edit: You might also want to look at a brigand. More single target DPS, but less AoE damage than a swashie. The other day my wife (brigand) and I (swashie) joined a mystic and paladin. After the first few fights, the pally said, "Wow, that's some nice DPS."</P><p>Message Edited by mbolme on <span class=date_text>07-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:03 AM</span>

[Godzmodi]

if you solo, swash for sure <div></div>

[Seddo]

Noone mentioned the most important thing so far: Selo's!!!! +34% runspeed. With AA Wisdom line you can get another +12% and another +10% from jboots getting you to +56% runspeed - fastest mount is at 48% <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />There are less swashies then troubs, if you want to play a rare class, play a bard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - and maybe with a nice Race/Class combination. Im a dwarven Troubador, and I'm still the only one I have ever seen on Splitpaw <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Hope you post for what class u decided in the end <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Zapdafi]

<P> </P> <P>i'd like to play a swashie once myself just for a taste of what true dps is like. I was originally a templar and when i came to troub i thought i was in dps heaven. didnt realize till i started raiding just how poor troub dps is, hehe.   its all relative <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jooneau]

Selo's isn't the most important thing. It isn't even important.If I had it to do over again, given this particular choice, I would have picked Swashbuckler over Troubador. I would have picked most any other class over either of them though. There are better options for the niches they fill.

[DankShasta]

I can mantain dps very close to a swash over the course of a 30, or40 second fight. Remember Kian's is a DOT against whole party, and the Alin's line is a whole encounter, and while even at Master it doesnt do a ton of damage, you still have to cast it all the time. Because it is a group spell, and it is a group wide interupt. Where the swashy is gonna outshine us is the first 7 or 8 seconds of the fight. After that we can catch up quite a bit. I run ACT most nights, and I can say my dmg is about the same as the other scouts, in fights longer than 5, 10 seconds. Dankshasta

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DankShasta wrote:<BR>I can mantain dps very close to a swash over the course of a 30, or40 second fight. Remember Kian's is a DOT against whole party, and the Alin's line is a whole encounter, and while even at Master it doesnt do a ton of damage, you still have to cast it all the time. Because it is a group spell, and it is a group wide interupt. Where the swashy is gonna outshine us is the first 7 or 8 seconds of the fight. After that we can catch up quite a bit. I run ACT most nights, and I can say my dmg is about the same as the other scouts, in fights longer than 5, 10 seconds.<BR>Dankshasta<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Then the scouts you're grouping with, suck.

[DankShasta]

<P>The group stuff will keep it close. At level 34 I am at Master at all spells, but even without that, we have Kian's which can deliver 400-600 to every group member, then we have the 30% proc always going. I would say a well equiped swashy is gonna avg around 115 DPS at lvl 34, in a longer fight, but a well equiped troub, who knows how to get off back stabs, and stifles is gonna avg around 95-105 dps, puls all our buffs. That doesnt sound pretty even to you?  Up close  we have 2 melee CA's one single target, we can move and cast two where we have to stay still, plus the two group attacks. We never have to wait on a button to come back to have something to throw. I have been noticing thru ACT, that my actually melee auto attack accounts for about 3-5% of my damage, so it's mostly just spamming CA's, stuns, stifles, blah, blah blah,  Overall dmg can be very close. If your goos at trageting, and RETARGETING, after they make you lose target, you can easily beat the other scouts in your group.</P> <P>                          -Dankshasta Champion of War-</P> <P>                                                                         Dankshasta Cham</P><p>Message Edited by DankShasta on <span class=date_text>08-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:15 AM</span>

[Sanju]

Calaglin was referring to endgame dps (level 70, raiding).Even at level 34, though, if you have a <i>comparably equipped</i> (including spell level) swash/brigand/assassin/ranger ... they should be outdamaging you considerably. Now if you have all Masters and decent gear, and they have Adept Is or lower and average gear then yeah you'll probably look good in comparison.There will always be times and situations when you can out-dps <i>x</i> class ... but if all other things are equal (equipment, spell level, player skill, buffs, AAs) Bards will be on the bottom of the scout dps every time.<div></div>

[Melmoth1820]

<P>My friend who rolled up on pvp with me as a swash, later rerolled as a troubadour and is much happier.  </P> <P>Troub damage, however, is so much less than swash/ranger it's silly to even debate it.  He's happier because swash is just a beatdown class (tho a very good one), while bards are much more of a finesse class in pvp which suits his playstyle much better.</P> <P>At lower levels in pvp tho, a bard <EM>can </EM>do fairly ridiculous damage to players with master spells because lowbies do not have a bunch of resists on all their gear.  That just isn't the case later on, but the damage isn't all that bad really.</P>

[DankShasta]

<blockquote><hr>Melmoth1820 wrote:<P>My friend who rolled up on pvp with me as a swash, later rerolled as a troubadour and is much happier.  </P><P>Troub damage, however, is so much less than swash/ranger it's silly to even debate it.  He's happier because swash is just a beatdown class (tho a very good one), while bards are much more of a finesse class in pvp which suits his playstyle much better.</P><P>At lower levels in pvp tho, a bard <EM>can </EM>do fairly ridiculous damage to players with master spells because lowbies do not have a bunch of resists on all their gear.  That just isn't the case later on, but the damage isn't all that bad really.</P><hr></blockquote> Well said, BUT...... Your nottaking into account the 30% dmg proc,and all the stat buffs, for group. That translatesinto alot of additional dps. It is a subtle class, probably the most so. You gotta be clever to be a good troub,no doubt.My hat is off to all troubs, especially PvP troubs. True masters of the class like Roadie, Hobs, Pandoris,and of course Dankshasta, are some of the really clever, creative folks playing on Nagafen. Dankshasta Champion of War

[Melmoth1820]

<P>No, I am taking into account <EM>your</EM> Aria's procs.  Stat buffs equate to more dps for everyone, not just yourself, so they're aren't helping you close the gap between you and other scouts in your group.  You were talking about <EM>your personal dps</EM> in relation to other scouts in your group.</P> <P>If you want to parse, then bust out the math textbooks and figure out how much dps your haste, aria's, and raxxyl's adds to your group members, subtract it from their total and add it to yours, then maybe you can claim your damage is similar to other scouts, but that's not what you were talking about till you changed your argument, lol.</P>

[DankShasta]

<P>  I had it figured out for pve at level 45 about a year ago, my troub added 12.3 DPS, to a caster and 4.4 for melee, the hybrid classes(like troub)varied obviously. These gains are per character so as you can see it adds up.</P> <P>                  I actually posted all my findings, and this data was all collected with parsers, and a hex editor. I have not undertaken this yet on a pvp server, as it would be a monumental task to undertake, in the hostile envirorment that is Nagafen. Took me probably 8 hours. If you have EXCEL I would share the info with you, send me an e-mail, with the forum system.</P> <P>  Dankshasta</P> <P>                                                                                           </P><p>Message Edited by DankShasta on <span class=date_text>08-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:40 PM</span>

[Spider]

troub so ur not stuck as a dirty nasty Q

[Llewrend]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><STRONG> First off, I want to be able to solo when groups aren't to be found.</STRONG> - <FONT color=#cc0000>As Scafloc said, Swashies solo faster but Troubs can solo tougher mobs. I don't remember soloing as a pre-50 troub, but I'd think it would be tougher to solo as a troub than a swashie pre-50. (Mez ftw)</FONT></P> <P><STRONG>Secondly, I want to be a class that groups want but isn't a healer, I want to be able to provide buffs that my party wants, or even needs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</STRONG> - <FONT color=#cc0000>Troub would be your best bet here. They offer some pretty good caster buffs. Swashies on the other hand, only have Pathfinding.</FONT></P> <P><STRONG>My last thing is minimal, but I want to be able to not only do good damage, but use cool weapons (dual wield preferred).</STRONG> - <FONT color=#cc0000>If both the swash and troub use dual wield, the weapons are pretty much the same. If you're going for all-out DPS though, Troub isn't the class for you. Troubs peak dps in a raid setting at around 700ish if very nicely equipped, while Swash's can do around 1.2k. So it depends on whether you want group buffs and moderate DPS, or limited group buffs and high DPS.</FONT><BR><BR><STRONG>On a side note, can anyone link me pictures of really well geared players of each class; and do troubadors use instruments like EQ?</STRONG> - Link to mine - <A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=341621107" target=_blank>http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=341621107</A></P> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN class=time_text><STRONG></STRONG></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Llewrend on <span class=date_text>08-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:24 AM</span>