Getting Troubador Rolling Again. Need Tips

[AndyTheSlay]

After a good week or two debaiting if I wanted to become a Dirge or not I decided to go ahead and stay a Troubador for a few reasons.But that aside....Its been a few months since I last played him and just wanted to know what in general is the best buff set up for 50+Also would like to know any must upgrade spells and any ancient teachtings that would be worth while to pick up.Thank you much for your help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />And let us join hands and pray from some Troubador Improvments /pray<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Buff setup depends completely on the situation.  What do you plan to be doing?</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<P>As Scafloc said, it depends entirely on your situation and group.  I tend to not fit myself into the belief that I'm a caster buffer only and have discovered that I'm a really good secondary tank/scout buffer during raids, especially if there is a brawler type in the group, and built myself up as such. Please note that I am level 70, so you won't necessarily get some spells for a while.</P> <P>I always have my Daelis' personal buff up (Master 1 version), so that leaves me with four slots</P> <P>Generally I have Bria's (AD3), Opus (AD3) (attack speed increase), Balletic Avoidance (AD3), Raxxyl's (Master 1). Depending on the group set up, if I need to use elemental/arcane buff for specific mobs, I will remove either raxxyl's or avoidance.  If I'm in a group with many many casters, I use Aria's instead. This setup combo also works well if you are soloing.</P> <P>This still leaves me to cast Jester's Cap on the MT, the healers or dps depending on how rough a fight is going.  If few people are dying, and the MT is just fine, I cast it on dps. If folks are stealing aggro, I cast on the MT. If healers are struggling to keep MT (and others up) I'll cast it on which healer has the most power.</P> <P>I love my troubador and I have fun playing her, regardless of the recent changes.  Not everyone feels that way though...</P>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<div></div> <p>I always have my Daelis' personal buff up (Master 1 version), so that leaves me with four slots</p><hr></blockquote>In a raid? Wow, what a waste! =P</div>

[Allowin]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<div></div> <p>I always have my Daelis' personal buff up (Master 1 version), so that leaves me with four slots</p> <p>Generally I have Bria's (AD3), Opus (AD3) (attack speed increase), Balletic Avoidance (AD3), Raxxyl's (Master 1). Depending on the group set up, if I need to use elemental/arcane buff for specific mobs, I will remove either raxxyl's or avoidance.  If I'm in a group with many many casters, I use Aria's instead. This setup combo also works well if you are soloing.</p><hr></blockquote>yeah, if you raid. keeping daelis up is a big waste. if your not capped with int and agi in a raid group without daelis, you need to talk to your raid leader and teach them the basics of raid group setup.having brias up is almost a must for raids. nobody can dps without mana.having opus in a caster heavy group is just plan selfish. no caster benefits from having opus up. only a melee class does. besides, most of the raiding melee classes have self buffs that add haste/attack speed ect. you can only get so much haste before its usless. all stats have caps.avoidance is another worthless one to have up in a raid setup unless your in the MT group or you the off tank goup. nobody in a melee or caster group benefits from that useless buff. +XX defense is such a worthless buff, it might add a % or 2 of avoidance.raxxyl's is a really good buff to have up in pretty much any group. very few classes other than tanks bother with STA. so adding 75+ STR/STA to a group of caster or melee classes can help by raising their HP enough to maybe survive a AE if they get too close. the elemental/arcane buffs are on the hot bar with the rest of my unused buffs. pretty much worthless unless your in a MT or off tank group. nobody should every be in range of a mob to need specific resist.when i raid with my troub, 99.9% of the time im in the caster group. no reason to not be. we are a caster buff class. we can buff melee dps, but not as well as a caster.my raid setup consist of.Raxxyl's. like i said, everybody benefits from the added STA and STR.Alin's. the 40% hate reduction along with each classes own self hate reduction allows a group to maximize their dps without fear of pulling aggro.Bria's. incombat mana regn is god during raids. if you get a chanter in your group. you and the other 5 will be the gods of dps.Aria's. like i stated, the proc was nerfed in LU24. but its still a dps adding monster. caster will love you for this.and for the last spot i usually just play it by ear. dove song is a ok buff. but most of the time casters have their sub, ord, min, dis and focus maxed out.ive ran requim on occasions. depends on what zone your in and how heavy the AE's are flowing. if you notice alot of the group taking AE's. toss it up.but as was stated. this whole setup can change depending on what group your in. 98% of the time your not going to be in a MT or offtank group. thats what dirges are for. melee groups benefit more from having other buuf classes in their group. so that pretty much leaves you in the caster group. my guild mages love me when i can actually make it to raids these days (RL has taken over my eq2 time) and i can actually move them from middle of the parse log to the top or close to it.hope this helps.</div><p>Message Edited by Allowin on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:31 PM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Raid:  I nearly always play Raxxyls, Alins, Opus, Aria and Brias (just got the master <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  If needed I'll swap Raxxyls for a resist buff (on the crab I'll swap Alins for a resist).  Never really play anything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grouping is generally the same.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Solo:  Usually Quirons and Brias to minimise the downtime.  Raxxyls and Daelis to max my stats, then either Aria or Opus depending on situation.  When soloing harder stuff I'll throw in Avoidance.  Caster mobs and I may try RoR.</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT>I really do know how to play my troub. As I explained in my original post, I have not set myself up for being a caster buff bot only.  The tanks (be they zerkers, monks, bruisers,) who are in my group end up on the top of the dps list rather often.</P> <P>It may not be a normal grouping, but not being in a raiding guild with the "required" classes showing up all the time, I do what I can with whatever group I get... and it seems to be working out pretty well.  I've added replies below. It's always nice to see what other troubadors do so thanks for the advice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>p.s. I like daelis master version. I use a lot of power. It helps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> When I get better gear/more fabled gear and my stats are almost capped out without I will replace it with another spell, assuming it's useful in that particular group.  Also, from what I've been told recently, there are levels to what you can personally cap yourself, but others buffing you will up that cap, and don't count towards the "cap". But I could be wrong, and wouldn't mind clarification on that particular point.</P> <P><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yeah, if you raid. keeping daelis up is a big waste. if your not capped with int and agi in a raid group without daelis, you need to talk to your raid leader and teach them the basics of raid group setup.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>I'm not in a raiding guild.  We raid generally once a week, and are often very tank/healer heavy.  </FONT><BR><BR>having brias up is almost a must for raids. nobody can dps without mana.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Bria's is always up</FONT></P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> <P><BR>having opus in a caster heavy group is just plan selfish. no caster benefits from having opus up. only a melee class does. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>As I mentioned in my above post, I am often in a melee heavy group.  It's usually me, templar, zerker, bruiser, monk, and someone else.</FONT></P> <P>besides, most of the raiding melee classes have self buffs that add haste/attack speed ect. you can only get so much haste before its usless. all stats have caps.<BR>avoidance is another worthless one to have up in a raid setup unless your in the MT group or you the off tank goup. nobody in a melee or caster group benefits from that useless buff. +XX defense is such a worthless buff, it might add a % or 2 of avoidance.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>plus 25 avoidance is something I put up for my brawlers - they tend to like it a great deal, especially for the mobs they are offtanking on</FONT></P><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> <P><BR>raxxyl's is a really good buff to have up in pretty much any group. very few classes other than tanks bother with STA. so adding 75+ STR/STA to a group of caster or melee classes can help by raising their HP enough to maybe survive a AE if they get too close. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I use that buff more for the strength than the STA.  More strength = harder hits. NOt usually a bad thing.</FONT></P> <P><BR>the elemental/arcane buffs are on the hot bar with the rest of my unused buffs. pretty much worthless unless your in a MT or off tank group. nobody should every be in range of a mob to need specific resist.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>As mentioned, I am usually in the offtank group... along with a bunch of other melee dps classes.</FONT><BR><BR>when i raid with my troub, 99.9% of the time im in the caster group. no reason to not be. we are a caster buff class. we can buff melee dps, but not as well as a caster.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Again, I'm in a melee heavy group</FONT><BR><BR>my raid setup consist of.<BR><BR>Raxxyl's. like i said, everybody benefits from the added STA and STR.<BR>Alin's. the 40% hate reduction along with each classes own self hate reduction allows a group to maximize their dps without fear of pulling aggro.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Alin's is a waste when I have more than one tank in my raid group.</FONT><BR>Bria's. incombat mana regn is god during raids. if you get a chanter in your group. you and the other 5 will be the gods of dps.<BR>Aria's. like i stated, the proc was nerfed in LU24. but its still a dps adding monster. caster will love you for this.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Yes, and if I have casters in my group I use it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT><BR><BR>and for the last spot i usually just play it by ear. dove song is a ok buff. but most of the time casters have their sub, ord, min, dis and focus maxed out.<BR>ive ran requim on occasions. depends on what zone your in and how heavy the AE's are flowing. if you notice alot of the group taking AE's. toss it up.<BR></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>These are two on my useless list...</FONT><BR><BR>but as was stated. this whole setup can change depending on what group your in. 98% of the time your not going to be in a MT or offtank group. thats what dirges are for. melee groups benefit more from having other buuf classes in their group. so that pretty much leaves you in the caster group. my guild mages love me when i can actually make it to raids these days (RL has taken over my eq2 time) and i can actually move them from middle of the parse log to the top or close to it.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>That's how the tanks in my group feel <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Like I said, if I were in a mage heavy group most of the time, I would do things differently, but since I'm not, I am loving being in a melee heavy group. My buffs provide a great deal, and while probably not the norm, I have a lot of fun doing it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I love my troub and anything I can do to avoid the dismal "I'm an autofollow buffbot" feeling is great. And it's a blast when I end up on the parser ;P</FONT><BR><BR>hope this helps.<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Allowin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:31 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Message Edited by Jaimster on <SPAN class=date_text>07-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:17 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:50 PM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR> <DIV>hving opus in a caster heavy group is just plan selfish. no caster benefits from having opus up. only a melee class does. besides, most of the raiding melee classes have self buffs that add haste/attack speed ect. you can only get so much haste before its usless. all stats have caps.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>100%, which not many classes can reach on their own.  Besides, what else will you use?  Dove Song is totally useless and RoR will have worn off by the time a second AE comes around, making it only feasible for a mob with multiple AEs.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> raxxyl's is a really good buff to have up in pretty much any group. very few classes other than tanks bother with STA. so adding 75+ STR/STA to a group of caster or melee classes can help by raising their HP enough to maybe survive a AE if they get too close.<BR>the elemental/arcane buffs are on the hot bar with the rest of my unused buffs. pretty much worthless unless your in a MT or off tank group. nobody should every be in range of a mob to need specific resist. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What?  You give your group sta to survive AEs but say they don't need resists for them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>when i raid with my troub, 99.9% of the time im in the caster group. no reason to not be. we are a caster buff class. we can buff melee dps, but not as well as a caster.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Caster groups ftl.  What a waste of procs.</DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>melee groups benefit more from having other buuf classes in their group. so that pretty much leaves you in the caster group.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P>Again, segregating the scouts and mages isn't going to maximise DPS.  But even if you do go with a pure melee DPS group, I'd say a troubador was the best class to buff them.  Alins, Raxxyls, Opus and Bria's are all buffs they can use.  Alin's is the best buff for DPS classes in EQ2 period.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Allowin wrote:<div></div><div>having opus in a caster heavy group is just plan selfish. no caster benefits from having opus up. only a melee class does. </div><hr></blockquote>Untrue. Summoners (can) benefit from Opus, if they're using the scout pet. (Of course most will (rightly) be using the mage pets, but it is false to say categorically that no caster benefits from Haste.)  Priest classes classes (and their pets) can also benefit from Haste. <b><i>If you're running in a group with 5 casters (pet casters or not), well that's also a waste.</i></b>Raxxyl's ... meh, depends on the group, but most of the time I'll run it. If the scouts in my group (including me) are already maxed on STR, though, it can get rotated out, since the extra STA is not enough reason to keep it up.Resists are not always worthless, but they are pretty situational, and rarely used.The ONLY buff that I can say I've had up 100% of the time during a raid is Bria's. Everything else can and has been switched out. (The next closest buff would be Alin's. It's up 99% of the time, but there are a few occasions where hate reduction simply isn't needed.)My buff lineup is the same as Scafloc's for 95% of the raids in T7. That's with a <i><b>dps</b></i> group (includes casters, melee and at least 1 healer) -- not a "caster group".The OP still hasn't said what his playstyle is -- he could be a level 12 soloer! =P</div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>The OP still hasn't said what his playstyle is -- he could be a level 12 soloer! =P<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL.  </P> <P>To the OP: Sorry we half way hijacked the thread.  You can learn a lot about the troub class here though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good luck and have fun playing your troubador <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class=date_text>07-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:52 AM</span>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>  Alin's is the best buff for DPS classes in EQ2 period.</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Scaf (and/or Angua), I have always sort of assumed when I have a bunch of the dps type tanks in my group (zerkers, bruisers, monks, etc) that it is really kind of useless to run Alin's since the hate decrease is for all classes but fighters, and so I swap I swap it out for one of my other above mentioned ones.  Unless I have a group with only one tank (with our raids being really tank heavy most of the time, this has happened about twice) I have always felt it was a little less desirable than some of my other set ups.  Should I rethink that belief? BTW, this isn't a smart [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] question, I've just never really found Alin's to be "the spell" unless in a group where the tank was having trouble holding aggro, at which point it went up immediately.  I'm definitely looking forward to feeling like my stats are good enough that I can relinquish Daelis' to the spells I don't cast section of my buff bar, but with it up, and a series of any other group buffs that others cast, my stats are all at just about 500 each (except wisdom). Eh, I'll have to play around with them all when I'm in game.  I know you two both know your stuff, so... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>When I say DPS classes, I'm really talking about scouts and mages  (Our zerker is usually MT, and although our monk is often in my group, he's generally just pulling and dpsing rather than being an off tank).  In general though, with a berseker tanking and with alins up, no-one grouped with me will ever get agro (memwipes aside).  For rogues/predators/summoners/sorcerers it really is the best buff there is.  Our raids as a whole have very high dps, and two DPS groups with Alins running is a big part of the reason we do that.  Daelis I never use on raids because with my gear, a fury and a wizard I can get my INT capped alone.  Even without that, the extra dps from anyone benefitting from Alins outweighs the extra dps a troubador will do with 200 extra INT (which let's face it, isn't much).</DIV>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>By the way, what would you say your group setup is on an average night?  If you have at least two DPS scouts/mages in it, I'd say Alin's is a must.  If it's mainly priests and fighters, maybe not.</DIV>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<div></div><font color="#ff0000">It's usually me, templar, zerker, bruiser, monk, and someone else.</font>Scaf (and/or Angua), I have always sort of assumed when I have a bunch of the dps type tanks in my group (zerkers, bruisers, monks, etc) that it is really kind of useless to run Alin's since the hate decrease is for all classes but fighters, and so I swap I swap it out for one of my other above mentioned ones.  <hr></blockquote>Of course in your situation running Alin's would be less than desirable, since only 1 (possibly) class would really benefit from it. As you stated, it doesn't work on the fighters, you and the templar don't need it, so only the "someone else" would possibly benefit from it.If I were in the above group, I'd probably be using Daelis', too, simply because I wouldn't have much else to run. The tanks would probably all be capped on STR and STA, so Raxxly's would be pointless (unless I'm not capped on STR, which is doubtful). Haste & Mana would be obvious. I'd probably run Aria assuming the "someone else" was a caster -- probably even run it regardless, since the bruiser and monk would proc it off of taunts. Still leaves me with 2 slots, so why not Daelis' and a throwaway buff ... (Graceful Avoidance, a resist, Dove Song, Reflection, or even Raxxyl's anyway, since the Templar's hammer pet might benefit from it, lol (not to mention the Templar's autoattack, heh)).</div>

[Mulilla]

<DIV>This is why i like troubs, i think all of the above posters are right.  I think your best buffs really depend on your groupmates.</DIV> <DIV>Being in a guild that raids, but not so often, we have some nice pieces of gear, but we aren't full fabled.  My gear is just average so i dont have my stats capped.  This is why i also play Daelis, to give my stats (int) a boost.  If my groupmates buff int and i am nearly capped i may cancel it, but that doesnt happen too often.</DIV> <DIV>Power regen is usually a must, so is Alins.  I rarely have a fighter in my group and in case that happens, it is only one, so it is nice to debuff aggro for the rest of my mates.</DIV> <DIV>Str+Sta is another one i usually play also.  In raids my str is usually capped, but that sta gives a few HP wich i think are worth.</DIV> <DIV>Although our groups are mixed with caster-fighter-scouts there is always a group with most scouts and a group with most casters.  If i am in melee grp i use Haste and Procs (procs are the first one to go down if i have to switch songs), if in caster grp i play procs and dove song (dove song is the first one to go down if i have to switch songs).   It might be personal experience, but i find it easier to land spells with dove song up.  Maybe i am triying to convince myself that it is worth something and it isnt, but i still play it sometimes anyway.</DIV> <DIV>Resists are very situational, but i play them sometimes when it is neccesary.</DIV> <DIV>+Defense almost never, unless i am in MT-MA grp, wich rarely happens</DIV> <DIV>ATM i am experiencing with RoR and i finally found a few uses for it.  It is true that doesnt absorb huge damage, but even a little raid dot tic reflected is noticeable.  Especiallly with fast ticks, i found a few ocassions where it really procs enough to have it up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys have to think that not everyone is a pure raider with great gear, there some of us who raid sometimes and just have average gear, some never raid and just group and some solo most of the time.  I cant remember when i soloed last time something that wasnt grey, i dont find it fun, although some people do.  In groups really depend on your group members.  Most of the songs can be used, it depends on who are you with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <DIV>By the way, what would you say your group setup is on an average night?  If you have at least two DPS scouts/mages in it, I'd say Alin's is a must.  If it's mainly priests and fighters, maybe not.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, somehow, with a lot of folks out there looking for healers or tanks, we have a LOT of them in our guild, and there are also a lot of them in the guild we join up with to raid.  There are a bunch of folks bringing up mage classes so that there are a few more options (if we're healer light, bring out the templar, dps light, bring out the wizzie sort of thing).  I've been on raids where there were 3 casters and 2 scouts (including me)... so buffing up the tanks who when in offensive stance can hand out a few [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] whoopings is definitely a bonus <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I spend half the fight running in to melee, running out (when a crippling AoE is about to go off) bow shotting, casting spells, jesters, etc.  I switch out spells depending on the mobs. If I see everyone in the group get hit with elemental, I throw that one up, etc, etc, etc.  It definitely varies depending on the group, and most of the time, I'm swapping out various spells throughout the raid anyway.  I have a 69 provisioner so I try to bring the stat food/drink to raids for anyone who needs them.</P> <P>A very common group set up for a raid is: me, templar, zerker, bruiser, fury/defiler (or monk), and guardian (MA).  So with that group Opus and Raxxyl's seem to be two of the best spells I can give to the group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I know it's not the perfect set up and it would probably make a few raid leaders cry (;P), but it seems to work okay for now anyway<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  We only usually raid once or twice a week, unless doing trash labs runs. Also, we do some of the T6 raids to get fabled gear for the up and coming folks.  I'm sure when the cast of characters/classes shifts to less tank/healer heavy to some dps I will change my tactics to better that group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I guess at the end of the day, we all have fun and I have fun and have fallen in love with raiding, so it can't be too bad right? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Jaimster on <span class=date_text>07-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:38 PM</span>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mulillla wrote:<BR> <DIV>ATM i am experiencing with RoR and i finally found a few uses for it.  It is true that doesnt absorb huge damage, but even a little raid dot tic reflected is noticeable.  Especiallly with fast ticks, i found a few ocassions where it really procs enough to have it up.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This is one spell I haven't really tried much with as it has always struck me as... well...not worth the conc slot.  I would love to know if it's actually worth something <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Yeah, for that group then the setup you use is alright, Alins would be a waste there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm lucky, we have a good number of each class, plus I lead the raids so get to choose who's grouped with me. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[AndyTheSlay]

Thank you all for all the help and adviseIt dosent seem like much has changed since I left so I should be okayIm at 50 right now and have some decent gear and think I will just stick with it and pick up the new stuff as I grind my way to 70Gonna do some raids too and gonna take in everyones advise and hopefully be of use. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Another question to ask is what AA should I take up?From what I saw im for sure going up the Wisdom tree for the Crit song at the end and im gonna do the Sta path for Stun and double attack.Is the posin path work taking up now that they have the % scale with rank?And is RoR worth having up in raids on caster heavy mobs now?Thank Ya Much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Allowin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>yeah, if you raid. keeping daelis up is a big waste. if your not capped with int and agi in a raid group without daelis, you need to talk to your raid leader and teach them the basics of raid group setup.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just noticed this comment.  What would you say the basics of raid group setup are then? Considering the group I was in today had me nowhere near cap.

[Zapdafi]

<P>my raid setup is:</P> <P>i hang out with casters and i usually always run brias, raxyls, and alins</P> <P>the other two slots are sorta up for grabs, i like to run daelis and opus/aria</P> <P>if mob is orange i might pull up dove song, but there are what, 3 orange raid mobs that I recall at this time? and only while we are working on a strat, once the mob dies, dove is no longer needed, hehe<BR>if we need resists, same as dove. usually only needed while figuring out a strat or if we do something undermanned<BR>for long fights i even run quirons as mages start hitting hearts and mana stones etc so the healer doesnt need to group heal</P> <P> </P> <P>grouping setup:<BR>geared to help the tank the most</P> <P>brias<BR>raxyls<BR>opus<BR>balletic avoidance<BR>daelis<BR>if alins is needed, tank aint right or someone isnt managing aggro, depends on if i wanna help someone save on repair costs, hehe</P> <P> </P> <P>solo setup - usually only doing writs which i can do easily, dont even eat food or drink. <BR>raxyl<BR>opus<BR>balletic<BR>dealis<BR>opus<BR></P>