Lore's Euphuistic Romp

[Cyneric]

Is it just me or is Lore's broken.Everytime I hit a mob with it, I don't see any messages that indicate it is having any effect at all.<div></div>

[Mulilla]

<P>I did a little fighting yesterday just to test the changes a bit.</P> <P>Lore's seem to proc, but for ridiculous amounts of damage.  I honestly think it still needs a lot of tweaking.  If i have enough time this weekend i will try to test it a bit more.</P>

[Cyneric]

Finally found it after resetting a number of my chat tab settings.And yes, during our raid last night, it would hit for 30-60 damage maybe. Unsure how effective the defense debuff really is.<div></div>

[SureShot]

<DIV>It's a lil' itty bitty teeny weeny DoT.</DIV>

[Jooneau]

This spell is still crap, but it is actually better than it used to be, which is saying a lot about how bad this used to suck.

[LodrinSt]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>This spell is still crap, but it is actually better than it used to be, which is saying a lot about how bad this used to suck.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Real sad when a class is happy with scraps.</P> <P>The only 2 good changes are the Hymn upgrade, and Dancing blade's debuff. Both of which were pathetic enough they should have been fixed/upgraded period (not as some weak conciliation gift to compensate for destroying charm/mes.) All the other changes were nerfs or too insiginicant to be considerd a buff.</P> <P>I'd like to see...</P> <P>1) A range increase on Hymn. The range should match the Essence line at 30m.</P> <P>2) Lore's needs just 2 good debuffs, not 1 good and 2 weak ones. The defense debuff is fine where it is, but seriously make up your mind about the 2nd debuff. I completely fail to see the point behind the LU24 change... A list of better possibilities include</P> <P>- A debuff that makes anyone hit the target leech the victim's power</P> <P>- A debuff that gives a % chance that the target will stun/stifle itself upon using a power.</P> <P>- Increase power damage ratio (1:2, 1:3...)</P> <P>- Fix the damage dealt each time a power is used (i.e. a flat 300 damage each time the target uses a power)</P> <P>3) Waiting 15 seconds to mes a second target is just plain brutal...</P> <P> </P>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>It hit for 3 points on damage yesterday.  The % needs to be put up from 38% to about 500%.</DIV>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>LodrinStar wrote:<blockquote><hr>Jooneau wrote:This spell is still crap, but it is actually better than it used to be, which is saying a lot about how bad this used to suck.<hr></blockquote><div>Real sad when a class is happy with scraps.</div><hr></blockquote>Dude, I am not happy with this spell else I wouldn't have called it crap.You got me confused with the dingbats who actually like the new charm spell...<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:26 AM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR><BR>You got me confused with the dingbats who actually like the new charm spell... <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haha, I said I liked the spell.  Get over it.

[Zapdafi]

<P> </P> <P>what the heck is euphuistic mean anyways..to lazy to google it or go to websters.com</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[kerel]

I have the same question about Daeli's, since lu24 i have noticed this proc once and that was on the first day.<div></div>

[ArrBa]

63, real REAL close to 64 Troub here. I CAN confirm both Daeli and Lore's both proc. I fight those caster undeads in TFD and Lore's takes a whopping 11-16 damage off some 300dmg nuke. Haven't payed much attention to the Daeli proc damage, but I do see "Your Sound Barrier hits blahblahblah for ......" These so called improvements are like a kick in the [Removed for Content] of a half buried class with steel toed cobalt boots. <div></div>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<blockquote><hr>Jooneau wrote:You got me confused with the dingbats who actually like the new charm spell...<hr></blockquote>Haha, I said I liked the spell.  Get over it.<hr></blockquote>So says the dingbat.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>Zapdafish wrote:<p>what the heck is euphuistic mean anyways..to lazy to google it or go to websters.com</p><hr></blockquote><a target="_blank" href="http://m-w.com/dictionary/euphuistic">http://m-w.com/dictionary/euphuistic</a>an elegant Elizabethan literary style <b>marked by excessive use of balance</b>, antithesis, and alliteration and by frequent use of similes drawn from mythology and natureHighlighted for effect -- that phrase describes the SOE designers well.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:09 PM</span>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> <BR>Jooneau wrote:<BR>You got me confused with the dingbats who actually like the new charm spell...<BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haha, I said I liked the spell.  Get over it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So says the dingbat. <P>Message Edited by Jooneau on <SPAN class=date_text>06-20-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:07 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What's the deal?? He likes the spell. I like it too. I use the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing in at least 1/2 of fights that have more than one mob coming. I fully admit it would be MORE useful and MORE fun if it lasted longer, but sheesh, in a group of a double up and two single ups, charm the double up, you've pretty much killed the two single ups and half the time i still have to cancel the charm because the other 1-5 people I'm grouping with are looking at me like, "Can we just kill it now please?"</P> <P>I NEVER used charm in group situations more than maybe 10 times total prior to the change to it. I'm not saying it's as useful for soloing or that I wouldn't like it to last longer but singling out Scafloc because he was the first person to say he liked it is... silly.  If it took a concentration slot I'd never use it but it at the max length duration, it is definitely not useless.  And believe me I fought tooth and nail against the originally proposed changes on test.</P>

[VericSauvari]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaimster wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> <BR>Jooneau wrote:<BR>You got me confused with the dingbats who actually like the new charm spell...<BR> <HR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Haha, I said I liked the spell.  Get over it.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So says the dingbat. <P>Message Edited by Jooneau on <SPAN class=date_text>06-20-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:07 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What's the deal?? He likes the spell. I like it too. I use the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing in at least 1/2 of fights that have more than one mob coming. I fully admit it would be MORE useful and MORE fun if it lasted longer, but sheesh, in a group of a double up and two single ups, charm the double up, you've pretty much killed the two single ups and half the time i still have to cancel the charm because the other 1-5 people I'm grouping with are looking at me like, "Can we just kill it now please?"</P> <P>I NEVER used charm in group situations more than maybe 10 times total prior to the change to it. I'm not saying it's as useful for soloing or that I wouldn't like it to last longer but singling out Scafloc because he was the first person to say he liked it is... silly.  If it took a concentration slot I'd never use it but it at the max length duration, it is definitely not useless.  And believe me I fought tooth and nail against the originally proposed changes on test.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>i used charm a bunch during the crabx2 in the expansion pack and it was actually pretty fun to mez one, charm another launch the charmed pet at another and mez another.  Its a situational charm at best, but enjoyable when using it. Do i want a lower casting time or a longer charm time? yes! is it going to happen? not in this lifetime.</DIV><p>Message Edited by VericSauvari on <span class=date_text>06-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:34 PM</span>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<P>What's the deal?? He likes the spell. I like it too. I use the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing in at least 1/2 of fights that have more than one mob coming. I fully admit it would be MORE useful and MORE fun if it lasted longer, but sheesh, in a group of a double up and two single ups, charm the double up, you've pretty much killed the two single ups and half the time i still have to cancel the charm because the other 1-5 people I'm grouping with are looking at me like, "Can we just kill it now please?"</P><P>I NEVER used charm in group situations more than maybe 10 times total prior to the change to it. I'm not saying it's as useful for soloing or that I wouldn't like it to last longer but singling out Scafloc because he was the first person to say he liked it is... silly.  If it took a concentration slot I'd never use it but it at the max length duration, it is definitely not useless.  And believe me I fought tooth and nail against the originally proposed changes on test.</P><hr></blockquote>Fair enough. My problem is more with the fact that this marginally useful -- and I'm granting you and scafloc a serious amount of leeway giving this spell that much credit -- spell replaced a very useful spell in my arsenal (the old charm). So yeah everytime one of you dingbats pipes up how much you love this spell, it's one more reason for them not to bring the old one back.The spell is crap compared to the old one. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand?Anyway sorry for the threadjack. To get back to the original point of this thread, yeah, Lore's really sucks now. 22 points of power and health damage every time an NPC with thousands of health and basically unlimited power uses its long-recast special abilities is absolutely pointless.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:58 PM</span>

[ShiroiOokami]

On a side note, does anyone know if a power tapping poison will also trigger the health damage?<div></div>

[Sanju]

I think the new charm is TOO useful, actually. I propose they change it to a 10s cast, 5 min recast single target "tickle" (targeted mob will laugh at you for 2 seconds before gaining 12 levels and pounding the crap out of you).Jooneau: Get over it. The old charm as you knew it is NEVER coming back. It's a DoT now. Get used to it. It's just as useful as ever on raids (i.e. not useful at all), and slightly less useful when solo (I have less time to harvest the node that the green guy was standing on).<div></div>

[Jooneau]

For [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s sake, you people telling me to "get over it" should go [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off. I'm definitely not going to listen to your sorry "go ahead and nerf me because I'm too much of a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it" behinds.If they changed our power regen song to be a Jester's Cap type buff, which is essentially what they've done to our charm (Jester's Cap style charm) wouldn't you be just as [Removed for Content]? You new charm supporters disgust me.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:46 PM</span>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jooneau wrote:If they changed our power regen song to be a Jester's Cap type buff, which is essentially what they've done to our charm (Jester's Cap style charm) wouldn't you be just as [Removed for Content]? You new charm supporters disgust me.<hr></blockquote>That's a good idea. Give me something to do during raids, anyway. I'll suggest that to the devs. Thanks!</div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jooneau wrote:<BR>For [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s sake, you people telling me to "get over it" should go [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off. I'm definitely not going to listen to your sorry "go ahead and nerf me because I'm too much of a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about it" behinds.<BR><BR>If they changed our power regen song to be a Jester's Cap type buff, which is essentially what they've done to our charm (Jester's Cap style charm) wouldn't you be just as [Removed for Content]? You new charm supporters disgust me. <P>Message Edited by Jooneau on <SPAN class=date_text>06-22-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>01:46 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Jooneau, have you read any of the posts that I (or others) made when the changes were first proposed on test, or the threads that were started fighting the 8 second max version and the original mezz nerfs?  It's not like I sat back and said, please take away my usefulness. I fought like hell... I did it in a civil manner but I sure didn't just accept it.</P> <P>For those of us who have found the charm useful, yay for us.  I don't see anything suggesting that it is going to be changed back to the way it was before and so I decided to test it out to see if it was useful as it stands, and I found that I, personally, have found it to be useful. I think that in every post where I've mentioned liking it, I have added the addendum that I don't solo much, and that I have the highest level version of it and so I feel for those people not in my position.</P> <P>I'm not telling you to get over it...Fight if you want - bring Troub threads back to life in the gameplay discussion. I for one spent a lot of time posting and feedbacking and doing what I could. At the end of the day, I just wanted to know that my character would still be fun for me to play, and it is, so I'm still happy. I still love my Troubador. She is still my favorite.... so I'm not about fighting that particular battle at this time.</P>

[Rikini]

<P>I'm not happy with the changes, but I'm adapting. I've spent the last week in the Sanctum of Scaleborn and in most of the groups it (charm) and lullaby have been quite useful. I am pretty much to the point where I will go so far as to say I like them better now than the way they were before.</P> <P>Used to: I'd charm something, then I'd try my damndest to get hit, otherwise the pet would basically just block my vision. But this is contra to the way I should play, as in NOT get hit. The charm would last through a fight, maybe two, then would break. Usually at the wrong time.</P> <P>Now: start of group I tell everyone I will charm an add, or a fourth mob (assuming no coercer/illusionist). It will only last 14 seconds. That 14 seconds, 9 times out of ten, are just perfect. We've either killed all the other mobs, and I don't even have to worry about breaking the charm. Everyone in the group "knows" my charm will break itself very shortly. Or it breaks just at the end of the combat already underway. This way, we can <FONT color=#ff9900>control</FONT> the fight, and not let it control us.</P> <P>I would say that what I would like would be a "real" charm, but then I'd be a coercer, and not a jack-of-all-trades.</P> <P>I do have a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'n'moan about the lullaby though. It gets resisted way too much.</P> <P>Lastly, to Jooneau, I'm not happy with the changes to my Troub. I adapt. I've played him since the very first day out of beta as my main. I use the tools I'm given to do what I can to bring a bit of humor to my groups. I'm very sorry you seem to thrive coming here and bashing us every day. I know you will say you're not bashing us, your bashing SoE and it's shortsightedness, or whatever, but frankly, I LIKE my Troub, I play him with class and style, and also, frankly, I just most of the time wish you'd [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. Really.</P> <P>So, now I get to start working on my relic armor. Good stuff. Right now I'm in PFCobalt, which is black, so even pumpkin orange will be a welcome change. </P> <P> </P> <P>To all Troubadors: never forget who or what you've chosen to be. We are the class of the bunch. If you can't be that, then by all means, be the class clown, and you're half way there.</P>

[Jaimster]

You pretty much summed up how I feel Rikini <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Great post.

[Mimsi]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> I would say that what I would like would be a "real" charm, but then I'd be a coercer, and not a jack-of-all-trades.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>No you wouldn't be a co-ercer, you'd still be a troubador; a mediocre general buffer, a reasonable caster buffer, debateably effective debuffer, with minor DPS, and a charm that was actually useful. Which is where we were previously, and exactly where troubs should be as per the game description and the reason as to why we all chose them over a dirge (especially subsequent to the LU13). </P> <P>It's always been an absolutely staple part of a Troubador's job and it's been reduced to fluff. Sure, I've got into the hang now of targetting, charming, assisting, attacking, and occasionally something will hit for a decent amount. But it's rarely encounter changing, and a distraction to my DPS, debuffing etc, (or watching the football).</P> <P>But now the major difference is, when the [Removed for Content] hits the fan, the huge reuse on mez and the 14 secs duration and 45 reuse on charm can rarely stop a wipe. If you get to the situation where you're hovering over the mez refresh for the third time, you're probably dead and so are your mates.</P> <P>When things got messy in the past you COULD control the fight. Now you can just tickle mobs to distraction and pray the healer can keep up.</P> <P>A decent charm is part of the troubador raison d'ete ... and I for one still want it back. Where are all the enchanters we were usurping in the group/raid role? Never grouped with one; the response one the combat boards was 'there are lots being levelled now'. Well, woop!</P> <P>I would like to end this rant with the usual statement ...'don't get me wrong, I love my ......' etc etc, to parry the 'if you hate ... blah, so why don't you play something else ...' etc.</P>

[Rikini]

<P>Mimsi, I didn't even think that of you. (I mean your last line.) What you say is reasonable. I don't recognise your name as a constant <fill in the blank here>. Unlike another person, you are as positive as you are negative. I guess my main point, if there was such a thing, was supposed to be this:</P> <P>Yes, we got the shaft. Yes, our charm sucks. Yes we have been nerfed.</P> <P>But so what. I'm still a useful member of any group I get in. There are several people who I've spent time with in SoS that actively look me up. I was even told when I joined a group, that "I love Troubs". That was amazingly warming. Of course I then cut down the individual due to his poor taste in attire. Purple pants with a green top, you know who you are! <looks askance></P>

[loveybutt]

Yeah I dont know about you guys, but as a lvl 70 troub on a pvp server, I have fallen in love with the new charm.  I dont know whether it worked in pvp or not previous to the changes, but it does now. I can't tell you the joy I've felt charming an actual player, and sending him on his own groupmates. It gives me the giggles everytime.  I do know now that the new charm is better from a pvp stand point, due largely in the 0 concentration slots it takes (the main reason I rarely used it prior to the update) and even more so with the shorter casting time. Even when I pve, it's come in more handy.  Sure it's harder to mezz more then 1 mob, but who needs to when you can mezz 1, charm the other, use the charmed to beat the 1 remaining (and if youre lucky the unmezzed/uncharmed one will turn and attack his buddy)  I think ive been able to kill 3 up green con named mobs more easily after the update.. I've fallen in love with my troub all over again.. toodles.. <div></div>