bria's sonnet

[Fildarum]

<DIV>troub mez...10 second use, 45 second recast?????...at master I....thanks for making this line compelety USELESS...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] am I gonna do but get my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] beat for the other 30 seconds when it breaks?</DIV>

[Reptilianb]

<P>its absolute bull s..</P> <P>useless...</P> <P>why can a conjorur solo mobs twice as hard as me?? I should be able to CONTROL other monsters. Even before this nerf the conjuror could still solo ^^^ even if i had a decent pet (which could break at any time).</P> <P>I'm giving it a week to see if i hear any official word. If not - have my stuff.</P> <P> </P> <P>At least give it about 30seconds worth of charm and instant(almost) recast if it breaks.</P>

[Fildarum]

my fingers on the button as well...gee..thanks for the extra 4 dps which doesnt even make up for the last LU nerf...but now that they've taken away the  most fun part of this class I'm pretty much done.  Thank god for summer.  I'll give a little time for a fix, but that's about it.

[Reptilianb]

<P>basically what we are now, is a rogue that does half dmg, with some fancy graphics instead, and some crappy group spells that you just leave on and forget about.</P> <P>With Charm and Mez how they where before, we still wasn't good enough.. but at least we could help with CC, which is what a bard is supposed to do and add some FUN.</P> <P>it really is a joke, they may as well have just took away the spell, what is its use?? has anybody figured it out yet? its more of a burden. I've not tested it.. but charming a mob out of 3 which is agroed on your tank, will mostly likely wipe the agro and cause it to hit you or the healer.. if you charm a spell caster and tell it to attack another mob the charm will most likely break before it casts a spell...</P> <P>Maybe SoE made a mistake and someone put 8seconds instead of 80seconds, its the only thing i can think of.</P> <P>With our current dmg and the old charming & mez skills, we are probably still the least powerful class, but i would be willing to accept that.</P> <P>wankers</P> <P> </P> <P>anyone know what affect it has in pvp? is it the same? useless?</P>

[Mimsi]

<DIV>I didn't bother to go back and play with techniques for using the 'revised' charm on test ... but ... now it's live it painfully apparant that ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's now like a level 60 'fun' spell; the 'fun' bit being 12 seconds of the 'attack' button working (by the time you've tabbed about with targets and attacked) ... both mobs you attacked will be a whole 5% knackered.  You then have two angry mobs and have to fanny about for a 24 sec stun, retarget and attack the last. TBH it's now a right fecking pointless mess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Far easier just to use an extra (now massively buffed (;/) CA), and 'rethink your pulling strategy' (c) vinter 2006</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Performer's talent is arguably more use now (can we have the dance component back as a compromise for stuffing our CC ability?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>I reiterate my point from about 3 months ago, our CC wasn't overpowered or imbalancing. Can we please have it reinstated to what it was before the gameplay genii let rip? Seriously, it was limited in raids, situationally useful in groups, and occasionally dangerous (and fun) solo.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>I'd like to see how the eternal optimists can put a favourable slant on this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mim</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*I did notice that zillions of tr00bs came out of the woodwork to look at the changes, zooming about on the new island. I suspect they will all vanish in the ether.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I like it...</DIV>

[Mimsi]

<DIV>Why do you like it? 14 secs? What use is it? It is utter fluff, one mob fighting the other does barely 10% damage, then it's a right fanny to do anything else. Just dont bother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How can you like it? Even in a group situation and time is tight, casting it on an add, then assisting and clicking attack gives you a wooping, what? 10 seconds?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do you feel it's an adequate compromise? It's a core troubador skill and now it's a joke. Actually beyond a joke ... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sure mate,  with T7 everything, all fabled, 1600 more hitpoints, and 200+ on all skills, + at least 2000 on all saves more than me, you probably could care less about it. But for us little folks the skills were occasionally quite useful.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The mez is bareable, in a tight spot.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Mimsi on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 AM</span>

[Jooneau]

Haha, the spell is absolute crap. Scafloc has lost his mind apparently or never really used the old charm enough to realize the difference.

[Mishrac]

<P>To be honest the charm i could live without but the mezz thats the real kick in the Nuts... why why o why.</P> <P>Here is a litle tip for ya... Make the mezz as before, thats a quick fix dont take anytime at all juast rollback from a backup.</P> <P>The charm make it 50 sec atleast so you can use it this is just as told before made in to a fluff spell... if you dont want us to CC then remove it from the spell book dont make us try to make it work.</P> <P> </P>

[J]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR> <DIV>I like it...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Find it amusing you're the only Troub that expressed a like for this change on these forums. Everyone else that cared an ounce has been screaming for weeks.</P> <P>For all of you just showing up to scream...thanks for finally contributing for the fight. Too little, too late. I gave away my stuff four weeks ago.</P> <P>Screaming isn't going to fix it. They don't care. That personal attachment you felt for your character? yeah... they don't care about that either. </P> <P>Vote with your money people. Its the only thing they listen to. </P>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I'm not even going to bother replying about this anymore, everyone made up their mind before it went live anyway and nothing I can say will make you change it.</DIV>

[Mimsi]

<P>Please, do share, because I really can't make it anything other than a worthless, fiddly toy. Mere fluff and a distraction, especially in addition to the power ticks added to jesters etc. I'm open minded enough to see the benefit, if there was one, but to accept this in it's current form w/o objection is nutso imho..</P> <P>Let's look at this:</P> <P>charm target 1, click target 2, click 'attack', pet engages, thump, thump, thump, charm breaks in <STRONG>10-12 secs</STRONG>, mez target ensuring atk is off, tab to ex-pet, engage - kill within, what 25 seconds? or ... tab back to mezzed mob, remezz (make sure attack is off and you're out of range), re-target engaged mob, attack and kill, tab to mezzed mob, attack and kill.</P> <P>All this for what? An initial 5% of damage? One shrill or a thunderous.</P> <P>There are other ways of doing it... engaging the fighting pair, but you take damage earlier, and stand more of chance of auto-attacking your mezz. Or as a distraction to an add in a group? Well TBH, far better leaving them unmezzed so the AEs can hit 'em.</P> <P>What am I missing. Perhaps it is brilliant compromise to our astounding unbalancing CC abilities.</P> <P>Mims</P>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I just checked my log from last night.  Fighting a named in the Forsaken City, I charmed one of its adds and ordered it to attack.  It did over 4k damage before the charm broke.  Is that worthless?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The monk trials in the tower are full of solo mobs.  I can charm one, pull another with it, and the one I pull will die before the charm even breaks.  If not, I just mez and finish it off.  Seriously, play around with it.  It's not a CC ability anymore, but it has other uses.</DIV>

[Reptilianb]

<DIV>scafloc = noob who works for SoE.. everyone knows him, don't argue with him.</DIV>

[Tirga]

<div></div>I haven't really had the chance to test this out yet. But comming from EQ1, this is prettymuch what Bard charm was there (albeit with instant recast and slighly longer duration) The reduction in casting time and lost of a concentration slot would apear to make the new charm much more CC based, rather than extra DPS based. Admitedly, the reduction in the usefulness of Mez is pretty bad, but the new charm doesn't look so bad. (as a side-note, in my experience, while Heroic mobs lose their health when charmed, their damage stays the same, considering they couldn't tank before... doesn't seem so bad) My question is this though. Can you make your pet attack? (I may log in my bard sometime soon just to check out the new changes) I ask, because the test notes state you don't have access to the attack command, but by damned you should have access if you only have 10ish seconds to use it. ... and geez, quit harping on scafloc. He likes it, so what?  We all have our own opinions, I know I'll be forming my own soon. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Tirga on <span class=date_text>06-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 AM</span>

[Jaimster]

<P>Actually... *cough*... I have to agree with scafloc and say that it isn't completely useless. While it would be MUCH more useful with a longer duration, when used appropriately it can help out/save lives.  Not having to mess around with a conc slot, I was able to save my group's collective behinds by giving our fury enough time to regen power and toss up a group heal before the charm broke and we finished killing it.</P> <P>Obviously it's not the same spell as before... but eventually we each make the personal choice to adapt, reroll, or quit.  </P> <P>On the other hand... It's not so bad for me at level 70. I have the max duration and I don't do much anymore besides group with friends or raid. If I had the T2 version of this spell I wouldn't bother having it on the hotkey bar - it lasts for all of 3 seconds?? That's the worst part... that the 14 seconds is the max.  They should really make that the minimum and work it's way up to say 30 seconds or 45 seconds (It'd be great if it had a similar timer to conj's pyrotechnic or swarm pets).  OR it should stay 14 seconds and just scale, but then don't make us bother to have to upgrade...</P> <P>So no, Scafloc hasn't lost his mind, he's just found ways to make a seemingly useless spell a whole lot useful.</P> <P>All the new troubs screaming on the forums, please don't flame us... we spent the past 1-2 months posting on the upcoming changes. You can probably thank folks like Scaf and JBW that the duration of it is now 14 seconds instead of the original 8; and that the mezz doesn't only last for 20 seconds with a 20 second recast timer any more.  So if you have civilized complaints, please bring them up, let's discuss them... Troub's need a lot of loving... we have a lot of issues still.</P> <P>I guess I'm still having fun and that's the main issue for me... they returned the mezz to a midrange level which is a lot better than the original nerf, so I can live with that.</P>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tirga wrote:<BR> <BR>My question is this though. Can you make your pet attack? <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes I could make my the pets attack. you didn't used to be able to before, but now you can.<BR>

[Jeger_Wulf]

<DIV>>  If I had the T2 version of this spell I wouldn't bother having it on the <BR>> hotkey bar - it lasts for all of 3 seconds?? That's the worst part... that <BR>> the 14 seconds is the max.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is that true? If so, that's a pretty big strike against the spell. For those of us who aren't 70 and have no Master, the spell probably won't even be on the hotbar. All-in-all, I am still wondering why they even nerfed the troubadour. There are few enough of us that even if we all quit, it wouldn't have much effect on how many groups the enchanters get.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am more concerned, though, with troubadours not being as fun any more - not how strong they are. I made a coercer, and the fun is back. So much to do and remember. We will see how that scales up. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this all pans out.</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<P>I'll have to log in to find out for sure... it's probably more like 5 or 6 seconds, but over 6 tiers, 14 is the max, so.... anyway, my point was basically that while I have managed to find a use for the charm, I also acknowledge the fact that I am at level cap and so those in lower levels have a legitimate complaint.  Hell, we all have a legitimate complaint. But I've discovered that what went live as far as nerfs isn't nearly as bad as what originated on test a month or two ago, and since I love my Troub, I'll find a way to make things work.  </P> <P>That I can be an /afk autofollow buffbot if I choose to be doesn't mean that that is how I plan to play. It irks me to no end that they have taken away a few of the things I love about the class, but not absolutely everything. If I stop having fun, I'll stop playing my troub. End of story. But so far that hasn't happened.</P>

[Fildarum]

well..i rolled a troub back at launch because it was what i wanted to play. heal songs, mana songs, decent dps and great crowd control.  Now that they have totally ruined  the class for me, I think im just gonna cancel and enjoy the summer outside.  In my opinion it was too far into the development to completely revamp a character like this.  Maybe some troubs aren't bothered by this change, but to me it's actually a game breaker.  I've been holding onto some false hope that someone would actually make this class more fun, but apparantly that's not going to be the case.  Some nerfing I could be ok with...but taking away 1/3 of the class ability is just stupid.

[Jaimster]

<DIV>My bad, lowest Charm lasts for 8 seconds, which is the useless amount of time we originally had for the highest level one... and it's moronic. It was then, it is now.  At least the 14 seconds gives you something useful in certain situations.</DIV>

[Zapdafi]

<P> </P> <P>to maximize the spell, while it is going off, have the target you want it to attack highlighted before it completes.   id prefer the older version but i wasn't really using it much anymore as it was too much of a pain to control. AE damage/dots or damage shields were causing it to drop on me so I just went without it. it was more headache to bring it back under control before going back to my encounter so i just killed encoutners without a pet.</P> <P>i sure do miss the mez tho.</P> <P> </P>