Charm

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Dare I say it - the new charm is actually pretty fun.  I've been playing with it on test doing the solo instances in TFD.  The range is pretty big, so I can charm one mob, use him to pull another, let them fight it out for a bit, then mez one once the charm break, before finishing both off.  Definitely not as useless as I'd expected.  Yeah, it'll have no raid utility, but it never did.</DIV>

[Arondur]

<P>I guess I must have missed something, you are saying you have full control of the mob?  CAN order it to Attack? I thought it would only react to protect the caster, like it is now on live.  So thats changed then? Has the amount of time you can charm changed? </P> <P> </P> <P>Wylder, AB</P>

[Mimsi]

<P>I must admit I quite enjoyed it too. It got a bit muddly with two mobs thumping me, attempting charm one, retarget, switch on auto attack, switch it off after 14 secs, mezz, re-target, switch on etc, etc - a far better option to light fuse and stand well back.  Anyone that wanted a substitute for twisting, it's arrived ;p</P> <P>It's very nice to be able to get a mob to attack another immediately rather than waiting 'til you're hit.</P> <P>I'd still love (begs for) a slightly more manageble, and less tokenistic duration, but I guess it's as good as it's gonna get.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>'Yeah, it'll have no raid utility, but it never did.' - remind me again why we have this 'fix'?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P></P> <HR>

[Mimsi]

<DIV>Yes, you have control, pets aren't passive, but the kicker is - it's a whole 12 second duration (I think it's 12 at 62 at AdIII on test - I might stand corrected).</DIV>

[Mishrac]

<P>It sounds as if it isnt a total waste but I still think that the duration is a bit short at least pump it up to 30 sec or around 1 min like the previous Mezz.</P> <P>But im glad to se that we might be able to use this still and it dosnt take a con slot anymore.</P> <P>The real problem is the mezz in my oppinion.</P> <P> </P>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>14 second duration and you have full control.  It's a lot better than it sounds, you really need to test it out to see how useful it can be.</DIV>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>As for the mez, this was the biggest nerf for me.  On contested raid mobs like the princes and Hurricanus I was able to keep all the heroic adds (2 or 3) completely locked down for the entire fight.  Now you'll only be able to keep one mob mezzed at a time, but you'll easily be able to keep refreshing it.  As long as you're sensible with your pulls and don't take on too many mobs at once whilst soloing, then it'll still work fine.  The only situations where we'd need to mez multiple mobs whilst soloing/grouping is if the pulling was sloppy - but now we can pet pull.  :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as raiding goes, I'm happy to give up some of the limited CC ability I had for some extra DPS.</DIV>

[Mishrac]

<P>The DPS Boost is a more the welcome change and I have to say im pleased with the change.</P> <P>I also after a bit of reading and some thoughts in how to use this charm I just have to agree with you vinterskugge it is still a usefull skill and you have to adept you play style. Now we use it for pulling and get some of the health down before we engage in Close combat. And Now I can have one more buff up instead of a slot reserved for charm as im soloing, I was realy negative when I read that it was the same as the previous charm but now if I have total controll I will have to test it out.</P> <P>Thanks for pointing this out Vinterskugge.</P> <P> </P>

[LordCalido]

OMG! Don't say it's useful OR fun, it will get nerfed instantly...haven't we learned this by now?

[Jooneau]

A 12-14 second charm with a 45 second recast timer sucks, especially if you can't mez (less than level 50).I would rather have our old charm with a 3-slot concentration cost, even with the 10% chance to break on damage, recurring chance to fail, and inability to command it to do anything, than this new charm P.O.S. spell.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 AM</span>

[SeregWethrin]

I honestly do think this new charm will help soloing more then hurt it as we can charm then mez twice then recharmI would like to see the charms casting time go down a little like 1 sec like other troub songs but its all good.  Another 5 second on charm would make it perfect about 20 seconds alhough 25 would be better 30 the best<div></div>

[J]

<P>And 35 is better than 30.. and 40 is better than 35... so on and so forth.</P> <P>Frankly, 7 minutes was better than all this other proposed crap and they have no justifiable reason for it and it makes me sick that we'd even capitulate and say-- "Hey, its not so bad and I can get used to this." </P> <P>Keep bending over troubs.</P>

[Jeger_Wulf]

Whether intentionally or not, they are going about it pretty deviously. First patch, hammer charm into the ground. Then gradually build it back up and we all feel good.even though it's still nerfed for no good reason I can see.

[J]

<P>Is that not basically the point I've been trying to make on these boards ever since the announcement?</P> <P>How can you trust people that thought of such an awful idea in the first place?</P> <P>I was stupid, completely and utterly stupid for trusting them for way over a year that they would do something to help my favorite class in the game-- weaponsmithing-- and patch after patch after patch they have continued to make that class more and more worthless. I will not be taken in for a second time with my favorite adventure class. I refuse to be another customer they refuse to listen to, that is willingly and happily abused month after month. I gave them my best, praised them, trusted them and all they did was abuse that trust day in and day out. </P> <P>I refuse to be their lap dog champion on these forums anymore with a watered down hopeful statement of "Don't worry guys, they'll figure this out and all will be ok."</P> <P>Shame on me for ever thinking that.</P>

[reaper_m]

To me, the slight DPS boost is just making up for the Aria nerf in LU23. They have done absolutely nothing to make up for the loss of our CC abilities as yet.

[Jooneau]

Guys, all you have to do to grasp just how awful the new charm spell is to play a Coercer or even a Druid with the Charm Animals Achievement ability.I told a Coercer friend of mine about the charm change, and he said, "That spell is useless." He compared it to their Possession spell, which has similar duration and recast timers but has the saving grace of letting them possess their pet to examine its abilities, strengthes, and weaknesses.It's like you guys have already accepted that they're going to put that abomination of a spell Live and are trying to cope with living with such a useless spell. Like you've already done with Requiem of Reflection. Like you've already done with how they nerfed our power drains into uselessness and months later are finally doing something about compensating us for our loss of ability.Meanwhile, Bruisers moan and groan about their combat art nerfs, SOE unnerfs them, and Moorgard soothes them, telling them that they use Test to see how things might work if they changed things. One of the advantages of having a developer play your class; they actually pay attention to you when you whine about something...

[vinterskugge]

<P>Have you even logged onto test and tried it out, or are you just calling it useless because that's what your coercer friend says? <BR></P>

[Trabbart]

<P>Scafloc i tried it out....and it lacked severly. Sure ya can USE it but that doesnt mean its usefull. Its actually even more dangerous to use than our current charm. If you tried two mobs before LU24 The charm has a fast recast in case of breakage and a mezz with a fast recast and duration in case things go wrong or a third creature adds. I wouldnt survive with this new charm if anything got resisted. And while trying it out found it deadly to use a charmed creature to pull another because i have no mezz available to lock both down. Someting that is very needed incase of soloing  ^ up blue's and adds.</P> <P>Groupwise the charm is nonsense too. The only use it has is pet pull, but there are more than enough pet pullers. I mean EVERY class seems to have a pet.</P> <P>As far as i am concerned the Mzz nerf is over the top. If they would change the recast to 10 sec and up the duration to 30 secs i would be able to live with it.</P> <P>The RoR and Lore's changes look promising but are far from usefull atm. I even consider the Lore's change another nerf atm.</P> <P>The dps boosts and the xtra debuff are welcome but cant compare to the complete neutering of some of our (dare i say it) core abilities.</P> <P> </P> <P>We are being pacified. (lol , and because pacify is also being nerfed, it is not working on me)</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Mezz btw seems to get resisted much more on certain mobs on test (stealth nerf there??) than on live.</P><p>Message Edited by Trabbart on <span class=date_text>06-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:48 PM</span>

[RoXx]

<DIV>14secs.. maybe I can live with that. But what the heck about the lvl 20 version on adept1 for instance??? what? about 2 secs or something? the casting timer is even longer than it lasts!! How can that be of use to anyone??</DIV> <DIV>Casting ....1....2..done....1....broken!! Cant figure any use? anyone else?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My best suggestion is putting the lvl 20 app1 to 12 secs. If 14 secs is to some use than it should be ok. So lets say the lvl62(?) M1 version being 36 secs? Sounds like something to consider to me. DONT forget about the ones not being lvl62+ (what use of a 2sec charm?)</DIV><p>Message Edited by RoXxer on <span class=date_text>06-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:37 AM</span>

[Mishrac]

<P>I am still saying that the Duration is to short on the charm, and I would like it to be at least 50 sec.</P> <P>On the Mezz part I cant understand the nerf at all why change it, it was working fine as it was and it wasnt overpowered at all.</P> <P>So for me change the charm to 50 sec - 1 minute and it would work fine... AND for the love of god stop mezzing with the mez.</P> <P> </P>

[Coppun]

Short duration charm is a waste of time and energy.   Why charm a mob only to have it drop a few seconds later in middle of a fight with mob #2 then you are fighting 2 angry criters....  ohh lets mez one... oh wait that will break soon too...  The new changes screw the solo/duo players,   Sure as a raider it might be nice sine those 2 skills were of little use most times but come on....   if I don't have a tank now I sit around lfg.  groups depends on troub mez to get them out of trouble.  as it will be we are just a weak power booster after the LU.  That is the facts..  I give it 3 weeks post LU and all the people that come here and say that troubs rock and they always want em in groups will be taking chanters because troubs can't mez anymore.  <div></div>

[Zapdafi]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coppun wrote:<BR>Short duration charm is a waste of time and energy.   Why charm a mob only to have it drop a few seconds later in middle of a fight with mob #2 then you are fighting 2 angry criters....  ohh lets mez one... oh wait that will break soon too...  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>for soloing.</P> <P>i see it being helpful to speed you along when taking on stuff you can already kill or just about almost kill. if there are multiple mobs in the same encounter, charm prob makes it even easier. i been doing alot of writs lately so this should actually help me out some</P> <P>if there are multiple encounters with a mob that you are already struggling with, i dont see charm or mezz as a viable way of taking one out of the equation and surviving anymore. there have been plenty of times, where i mez the add, go back to the mob im on, kill it. then either charm/heal/kill or i just yell it off. </P> <P>for grouping</P> <P>there really isnt any zone in the game at this point that a group of guildies cant take on, even with a bad pull  and short a few people. i rarely use mez anymore as it is, and when i do, the freakin zerker or somebody with an AA aoe will break it. i prob wont do pick up groups anymore unless absolutely needed, im too spoiled now, hehe. the mez actually slows us down, all the mobs drop like dominoes, and then you got this one that somehow managed to avoid all the AE's standing there lookin pretty.</P> <P> </P>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<P>Have you even logged onto test and tried it out, or are you just calling it useless because that's what your coercer friend says? </P><hr></blockquote>I leveled up a Troubador on Test to 20 before they enabled the beta-buff for Fallen Dynasty. I tried out the level 20 charm, which only lasted 6.5 seconds back then, and was so thoroughly disgusted by what I saw that I camped and deleted the toon. I really don't see adding 3 or 4 seconds to that duration changing my impression of the spell.I am honestly trying to understand how you think this spell is any good, especially compared to an actually viable charm like a Coercer's, a Druid's, or even our current charm, but I am failing quite miserably at that.I am calling it useless, because it is as close to useless as it can be without being a fluff spell, not because "my coercer friend said so" (which btw F.U. for even saying that, you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]). What sort of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] defends an outrageous nerf like this anyways?<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 PM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>I honestly thought it'd be useless until I tried it out, but it's nowhere near as bad as I was expecting.  Don't think of it as crowd control anymore, it's a completely different spell to how it used to be.  Betabuff a troub, log onto test and do the monk trials and you'll see what I mean.</DIV>