troub VS dirge

[boylocke]

Hi all.  I'm planning to start a bard soon.  This topic has probably been talked about to exhaustion, and I'm not really looking for which one is better, that is probably in the eyes of the beholder.  I was just wondering if someone could explain the differences between dirges and troubs.  Is one strong in certain areas while the other is weak and vice versa?  It seems most dirges will say they are superior in almost every regard, but most troubs will say they are very balanced.  This means either two things, that dirges are right and troubs are trying to at least be on PAR with them, or that troubs are friendlier players and dirges are egotistical.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Someone enlighten me.I am PERSONALLY looking to do more buffs and things that make the group really shine.  I am less interested in damanging and debuffing.<div></div>

[J]

<DIV>Troubadours are a class that are unique in their abilities to enhance a group through stat enhancing songs, power draining abilities and the ability to charm / mez in a pinch. They are especially useful at helping casters increase their damage output. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Prior to LU 23 of course. Frankly, we don't know what we are anymore. I'm not sure if I should even use the inclusive "we"... my troub account expired this last week.  Only got another month left on this one before I can't be angry and bitter on these boards anymore =D</DIV>

[Jeger_Wulf]

Troubadours are going through some fairly major changes right now, as a couple of their defining abilities are being nerfed in a serious way. No-one really knows how it will shake out, so we can't really help you right now. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If you want safety, stick to dirges (who have problems of their own.) If you want to live on the edge - not knowing what the next day will bring, try a troubadour. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ArrBa]

Some of our songs are actually getting....buffed. There is a thread somewhere here, apparently 5 gazillion angry Troubs doesn't help the already sucktacular PR on SoEs part. But yeah, out Mez and charm still sucks. There is a tiny little light in the darkness we call our existance. I would wait for the LU to go live, then talk to Troubs to see how they like/dislike the LU. Call me an optimist but it may not be as bad as everyone says. Dirges will always have an edge unless some mobs <u><i><b>ONLY</b></i></u> use magic. Since Dirges rely on the melee aspect of mobs, their abilties will trigger more since mobs auto-attack WAY more than they use magic (as stated on another thread). <div></div>

[boylocke]

Hm, so you think dirges have an edge unless the mobs use magic attacks, and considering use melee attacks FAR FAR FAR more than magic attacks, I suppose that's just about always.  Are dirges being hit hard by the update as well?  What spells are getting buffed for troubs?  Maybe I will hold off until after the patch.<div></div>

[ArrBa]

<div></div>I looked around and found the posts that talk about our nerfed-to-oblivion Mez and Charm and found another post about our increased song performance.<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=8657">Nerfage</a>and<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=8922">Buffage</a> But now that I think about it, it depends on your playstyle views. IE: I may think it's an inprovement, however the person next to me may think differently.<div></div>

[Ciela]

<P></P> <HR> I am PERSONALLY looking to do more buffs and things that make the group really shine.  I am less interested in damanging and debuffing.<BR> <HR> <P>Both dirge and troub does that and debuffing is also a part of the bard job.</P> <P>My quick summary :<BR>- dirge : more of a melee buffer, solo friendly ( IMO ), can single and group rez<BR>- troub : caster buffer, solo ?? ( should be on par with dirge, not sure ), can mez and charm<BR></P>

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>xyagentguy wrote:I am PERSONALLY looking to do more buffs and things that make the group really shine.  I am less interested in damanging and debuffing.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Buffs take seconds to cast and stay up for as long as you are alive. What exactly about buffing is there to be excited about? Unless you're talking about Jester's Cap, which I doubt, you being new to the Troubadour class and all, and I can tell you, "interesting" isn't what I would call juggling immunity and recast timers to make sure this buff is up on you and your friends.

[Jooneau]

<blockquote><hr>ArrBard wrote:<div></div>I looked around and found the posts that talk about ournerfed-to-oblivion Mez and Charm and found another post about ourincreased song performance.<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=8657">Nerfage</a>and<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=8922">Buffage</a>But now that I think about it, it depends on your playstyle views. IE:I may think it's an inprovement, however the person next to me maythink differently.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The nerfage was uncalled for, and the buffage was long overdue and not done well in some cases (Sandra's and Requiem). They are still in the negative as far as I am concerned.

[KingAnt]

<DIV>Hello,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I played a Troub for 64 lvls.  I bacame a troub 2 years ago when a friend of mine (who talked me into playing this game) said "be a troub! They can Rez in battle"  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>sigh...he doesn't play anymore, but I was stuck with a troub.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubs are awesome in their buffs, as a troub I was frequently trying to decide which buffs to use in what occasion.  The hp regen is nice while soloing and they have (though not as much as before) great crowd control.  They can increase magic dmg output with their aria and precision.  Zerkers like us for the stacking of our haste and hp regen and casters like us cause we reduce their interrupts.  On the whole though, unless you have fully upgraded spells and good gear, it can be difficult to solo anything over a white conn mob (well for me it was).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dirges are good in their buffs. the DPS buff is great and stoneskin is priceless in melee (I've had it block thousands of points of dmg), and while my opinion is that their self buffs are better, I can't help but feel I'm not as versatile as I was as a troub, there simply hasn't been (as much) that "which buffs should I use here?" moment.  By far one of the dirges greatest assets is the ability to rez and take pressure off the healer so they can focus on keeping the tank up.  Dirges I believe have much better debuffs than the troub and therefore can solo "better" (bards in general aren't made for soloing) I can take on yellow mobs that my troub could not do without mez/shriek.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things I miss from the troub.  hp regen, power stealing, and (pre LU24) charming and mezing.  Also Dirges burn through power much quicker than troubs.  Also while dirges, in general solo better than troubs, the ability to mez/charm/powerdrain gives the troub the ability to kill things a dirge can't....it will simply take FOREVER but is useful for those hard hitting quest mobs.   And the dirge lifetap doesn't replenish as well as the hp regen IMHO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd say if you like to play more solo yet still have the ability to be an asset to your group, go with the Dirge, but If you want more versatility and wish to help a group at the cost of SOME solo ability, then go with troub.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In anycase I betrayed to dirge 2 lvls ago and I do prefer the dirge over troub.  My main reason has been the rez, which has proven to be invaluable. I think it also has to do with the fact that I felt "cheated" two years ago and this was my chance to "fix" it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The hardest thing was learning how to fight with the dirge and starting out with all app I's without knowing which lines do what for them.  But you pick things up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either class is good,  just depends on how you want to play, and in the end, if you don't like playing that toon, you're simply not going to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jal]

<blockquote><hr>KingAnt wrote:<DIV>Hello,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I played a Troub for 64 lvls.  I bacame a troub 2 years ago when a friend of mine (who talked me into playing this game) said "be a troub! They can Rez in battle"  </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>sigh...he doesn't play anymore, but I was stuck with a troub.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Troubs are awesome in their buffs, as a troub I was frequently trying to decide which buffs to use in what occasion.  The hp regen is nice while soloing and they have (though not as much as before) great crowd control.  They can increase magic dmg output with their aria and precision.  Zerkers like us for the stacking of our haste and hp regen and casters like us cause we reduce their interrupts.  On the whole though, unless you have fully upgraded spells and good gear, it can be difficult to solo anything over a white conn mob (well for me it was).</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Dirges are good in their buffs. the DPS buff is great and stoneskin is priceless in melee (I've had it block thousands of points of dmg), and while my opinion is that their self buffs are better, I can't help but feel I'm not as versatile as I was as a troub, there simply hasn't been (as much) that "which buffs should I use here?" moment.  By far one of the dirges greatest assets is the ability to rez and take pressure off the healer so they can focus on keeping the tank up.  Dirges I believe have much better debuffs than the troub and therefore can solo "better" (bards in general aren't made for soloing) I can take on yellow mobs that my troub could not do without mez/shriek.  </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Things I miss from the troub.  hp regen, power stealing, and (pre LU24) charming and mezing.  Also Dirges burn through power much quicker than troubs.  Also while dirges, in general solo better than troubs, the ability to mez/charm/powerdrain gives the troub the ability to kill things a dirge can't....it will simply take FOREVER but is useful for those hard hitting quest mobs.   And the dirge lifetap doesn't replenish as well as the hp regen IMHO.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I'd say if you like to play more solo yet still have the ability to be an asset to your group, go with the Dirge, but If you want more versatility and wish to help a group at the cost of SOME solo ability, then go with troub.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>In anycase I betrayed to dirge 2 lvls ago and I do prefer the dirge over troub.  My main reason has been the rez, which has proven to be invaluable. I think it also has to do with the fact that I felt "cheated" two years ago and this was my chance to "fix" it.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The hardest thing was learning how to fight with the dirge and starting out with all app I's without knowing which lines do what for them.  But you pick things up. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Either class is good,  just depends on how you want to play, and in the end, if you don't like playing that toon, you're simply not going to play.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> </DIV><hr></blockquote>pretty much my situation im so far enjoying being a dirge but the power consumption is huge.

[Ciela]

<P>Hello,</P> <P>about power use, as a dirge, don't use all your debuff ( Clara, Discante and Daro&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> when you solo unless you're fighting a group encounter.</P>

[ifo]

<P>Well i'm a dirge on crushbone server and all i can say is... i dunno how troubadors r but dirgse r "good" they rnt really great at buffs , deal damage or debuff, there is plenity of classes out there better than us.  Yeah maybe we r better than troubadors now... (after LU24 ) but well ... in my opinion dirges and troubadores r one of the forgotten classes in EQ2. We rnt damage delaers and we rnt buffers at all.</P> <P> </P> <P>If u want to become a dirge u r welcome but... well , after 5 months we still have some troubles stated there... i keep saying our mana drain is to "HIGH" but dirge community is to carlesss to even admit it. Well u know waht u r doing but i dont think becoming a dirge or a troubador this days r the way to go....</P> <P> </P> <P>I dont know what SoE is thinking .. maybe we gona get instruments in LU26 ... or maybe not .. .but atm dirges & troubadors rnt anything else than a "fun" class to play with.</P> <P>If u want to roll a good char go for one of the other classes... really , dont think we r in better situation than  u guys r.</P>

[Jooneau]

ifoxe, the Troubador community is just as lazy when it comes to understanding what their spells do. Heck, some of them still think that they have good buffs and debuffs, when almost these spells do jack squat. These buffs and debuffs were overpowered when the game was released, because the game was flat out stupidly broken and almost completely unbalanced when it was released. Since then, they have been nerfed to be practically useless.It's sad really. It's like they're in denial about how useless and underpowered they are.<p>Message Edited by Jooneau on <span class=date_text>06-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:19 PM</span>