Spell and Art Changes in Test Update #24 (So Far) from Testfeed snip

[Nevari]

<div></div><div></div><font color="#ffcc00"><b>Spells and Combat Arts</b></font>- All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration are changed to 1.5s duration.- All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3- 4s in duration are changed to 2.5s duration.- All knockdown effects will not work on epics.- Adjusted all Root, Stifle, Stun, Mesmerize, and Fear durations to have consistent linear progression in durations with level increase.- Examine information describing control effects should be generally clearer than before.- All Mesmerize abilities have their own immunity separate of Stun immunity.<b>Scout changes:</b>- Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.- Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm. * Reduced casting time to 2.5s. * Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack. * Duration greatly reduced. * Removed concentration costs. * Increased reuse time to 60s.- Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds.- Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased.<font color="#ffcc00"><b>Achievements</b></font> - All Achievements that provided increased casting speed with increased rank received a boost. - Bard: Sta 2: Round Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. Increased damage. - Bard: Sta 5: Shield Focus: Properly Roots bard in place, and grants knockdown immunity.<hr size="2" width="100%"><div></div>Reference <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=54833" target="_blank">here</a>. This is a snip from the complete post only including Troubador affecting changes.<p>Message Edited by Nevarion on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:13 AM</span>

[Shiloh]

<P>Taken as a whole, seems like a net negative to me.  The following are good, but just corrections of improper prior implementation:</P> <P>- Adjusted all Root, Stifle, Stun, Mesmerize, and Fear durations to have consistent linear progression in durations with level increase.<BR>- Examine information describing control effects should be generally clearer than before.<BR>- All Mesmerize abilities have their own immunity separate of Stun immunity.<BR>* Bria's Entrancing Sonnet has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack and has Reduced casting time to 2.5s.<BR></P> <P>And these positives:<BR>Removed concentration costs of Bria's Entrancing Sonnet (But duration now very short.)                                                Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased<BR>All Achievements that provided increased casting speed with increased rank received a boost.<BR>Bard: Sta 2: Round Bash: Upgrades affect the knockback stun duration. Increased damage.<BR>Bard: Sta 5: Shield Focus: Properly Roots bard in place, and grants knockdown immunity.<BR></P> <P>Are offset by these negatives:</P> <P>All short knockdowns and many short stuns that were 2s in duration are changed to 1.5s duration.<BR>All knockdowns and many short stuns that were 3- 4s in duration are changed to 2.5s duration.<BR>All knockdown effects will not work on epics.<BR>Scout: Cheap Shot: slightly reduced power cost. Duration is 4s instead of 6s on standard or weaker opponents.<BR>Troubador: Lullaby: decreased duration, increase reuse timer to 20s.<BR>Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Now works as a very short term charm.<BR> * Duration greatly reduced.<BR> * Increased reuse time to 6 seconds</P> <P>Again, to me - IMHO - that's a net negative.  And there is nothing there that addresses many of our stated concerns.  To give SOE credit, SOME DEV must have played our class and decided that tweaking these existing timers, etc., would increase our gameplay and/or balance combat.  (At least I HOPE so!)</P> <P>But, overall, it looks like I'll take MORE damage from mobs, and there is nothing NEW.  Except for the concentration slot on Bria's, there is nothing there to indicate that the devs read - much less responded to - more than a year's worth of concerns we've posted on these forums.</P> <P>I could be wrong.  Maybe the overall effect of these changes will be very good for troubs' gameplay.  (I really don't believe that.)  But it seems obvious to me that the devs are DONE with troub *development.*  All we get from here on out is tweaks (usually for the worse) and expansions.</P> <P>I realize much of my $15/month goes to support SOE's capital costs, profit and Customer Support (which is abysmal at the /petition level, IMO.)  But SOME of it should be going towards ongoing *development.*  Troubs should have instruments.  They should actually GROW with levels rather than (basically) get the same capabilities refreshed every 14 levels.  They should gain power via new spells like PoM without corresponding nerfs.  *They should be getting regular feedback in their forums.*</P> <P>This LU looks to me like more of the same that we've gotten for a year and a half and - to me - it's just not good enough.</P> <P>This is all my personal opinion and your thoughts will certainly differ.</P> <P> </P>

[Cuz]

<P>Added in tonight:</P> <P>- Troubador: Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Reduced casting time to 2.5s.</P> <P>- Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds.</P> <P>- Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=f_gameplay&message.id=5760#M5760" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=f_gameplay&message.id=5760#M5760</A></P>

[Kraks_Aforty]

Gonna be nearly worthless to play after LU24.I love their 'fixes'<div></div>

[reaper_m]

<P>I think MG did give us some sort of response didn't he? Albeit, an indirect one. He said in this <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=104037#M104037" target=_blank>post</A> that: </P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorguard wrote:<BR> Games aren't built by voting; they are built by game designers. The customers then vote with their dollars as to whether or not they enjoy the product.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Which basically means, "Screw you playerbase, we made this game. If you don't like it, go take your business elsewhere."</P>

[911GT3]

The nerfs dont seem too bad, at least for my style of play. Mez did always seem a bit over powered and charm I barely ever even used. The buffs seem like they will be realy good, more dmg and shorter cast timers, sign me up. <div></div>

[VericSauvari]

i love the fact that they do not mention the 8 second charm time on sonnet ...they keep it nice and vague with 'greatly reduced'<div></div>

[Snublefot]

So what kind of upgrade did Swindle Essence get? Tripple damage (would help)? Or 10 to max damage and reduced min damage by 5? I bet its a "Look we gave you a boost shut up and play" worthless crap thing.

[Cynnigig]

<P>"Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack."<BR></P> <P>Does this mean our charmed pet will never attack? Not that 8 seconds of damage will matter much. What controls are left then? Isn't there a destroy pet control?</P>

[Cragger]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cynnigig wrote:<div></div> <p>"Bria's Entrancing Sonnet: Has use of pet commands except to directly call an attack."</p> <p>Does this mean our charmed pet will never attack? Not that 8 seconds of damage will matter much. What controls are left then? Isn't there a destroy pet control?</p><hr></blockquote>That would just release the charmed mob.In effect it gives no additional offensive control of the charmed creature. Except now you can turn off defend me and defend yourself for the 8 seconds. Can't tell it to attack anything still.</div>

[Snublefot]

rofl Didnt catch that one. Thats the exact same way it works right now on live. Cant make it attack. So... Even more totally 110% absolutely useless. Hurray for SOE! Putting the fun out of games...

[Sanju]

So ... how much was Steal Essense increased? Is it even noticeable?and how much was Allegro increased?<div></div>

[ootpek]

You know...as a Troubador with a Coercer main...I charm ALOT.  This charm change is gonna suck.  Before LU 13, I thought Coercer charm was really what Troubador charm SHOULD be.  It was 36 seconds long, gave you complete (Even attack) control, and didn't use a conc slot.  This enabled my Coercer to work very hard, and charm 3 things at once (36 sec duration with 6 second recast) and beat up a bunch of mobs quickly.  It would use tons of power, alot of skill, and was alot of WORK.  If they made Troub charm something like this it would be great I think and would fit in with the class lore.  Not too long a duration where it's trivial to charm, but make it possible to really work at it and do neat things.  But...hey...with an 8 second charm I guess I can use that to run away instead.  <div></div>

[SideshowBob]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 911GT3 wrote:<BR>The nerfs dont seem too bad, at least for my style of play. Mez did always seem a bit over powered and charm I barely ever even used. The buffs seem like they will be realy good, more dmg and shorter cast timers, sign me up.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What exactly is your style of play?  Not trolling or anything like that. I'd honestly like to know so I can try applying it to my soon-to-be /autofollow /afk buffbot because these proposed changes (on top of the never ending string of nerfs we've already been hit with in every other update) seem VERY bad to me.</P> <P>Specifically, I'd be interested to hear your strategy for doing solo zones like the Tears Grifter quests in Maj'Dul without the use of charm or mez. That zone always kicked my Troub's [Removed for Content] and I can't count the number of times I relied on both those spells to complete the quest. Another solo instance that she had a tough time with that comes to mind is the genie bottle on the beach of the island, just off the Sinking Sands docks (sorry, can't remember the name of the zone). Once again, I can't imagine doing that event/zone without Mez or Charm. How did you do them?</P> <P>My Troub doesn't raid anymore (not since t5), so she only has legendary gear, a few fabled items picked up off non-raid master drops, and mostly AD3s with one or two master spells thrown in. Is that the difference?</P>

[Sanju]

<div>The changes won't affect me much, either. (Which is not to say I like the changes -- it's a big nerf for a lot of people.)I raid. I have <b>never</b> used charm on a raid. Not once. Ever. So, the change to charm won't affect my ability to raid at all.I have used mez a handful of times on raids, but usually only to lock down 2 mobs max. The last time I used mez on a raid was T6. This change will not affect my ability to raid (we have 2 good enchanters in guild).On the contrary, I use Steal Essence on raids all the time. An upgrade in damage will help. ANY increase in Allegro is also a good thing.For raiders, the change appears to be a net gain.For everyone else, it's a big loss. (While I never used charm in an xp group, I did use mez -- especially with pickup groups. I used both when soloing (quite often).My solution to the changes: I won't solo. Anything. Ever.<blockquote><hr>SideshowBob wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> 911GT3 wrote:The nerfs dont seem too bad, at least for my style of play. Mez did always seem a bit over powered and charm I barely ever even used. The buffs seem like they will be realy good, more dmg and shorter cast timers, sign me up. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>What exactly is your style of play?  Not trolling or anything like that. I'd honestly like to know so I can try applying it to my soon-to-be /autofollow /afk buffbot because these proposed changes (on top of the never ending string of nerfs we've already been hit with in every other update) seem VERY bad to me.</p> <p>Specifically, I'd be interested to hear your strategy for doing solo zones like the Tears Grifter quests in Maj'Dul without the use of charm or mez. That zone always kicked my Troub's [Removed for Content] and I can't count the number of times I relied on both those spells to complete the quest. Another solo instance that she had a tough time with that comes to mind is the genie bottle on the beach of the island, just off the Sinking Sands docks (sorry, can't remember the name of the zone). Once again, I can't imagine doing that event/zone without Mez or Charm. How did you do them?</p> <p>My Troub doesn't raid anymore (not since t5), so she only has legendary gear, a few fabled items picked up off non-raid master drops, and mostly AD3s with one or two master spells thrown in. Is that the difference?</p><hr></blockquote></div>

[SideshowBob]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV>The changes won't affect me much, either. (Which is not to say I like the changes -- it's a big nerf for a lot of people.)<BR><BR>I raid. I have <B>never</B> used charm on a raid. Not once. Ever. So, the change to charm won't affect my ability to raid at all.<BR><BR>I have used mez a handful of times on raids, but usually only to lock down 2 mobs max. The last time I used mez on a raid was T6. This change will not affect my ability to raid (we have 2 good enchanters in guild).<BR><BR>On the contrary, I use Steal Essence on raids all the time. An upgrade in damage will help. ANY increase in Allegro is also a good thing.<BR><BR>For raiders, the change appears to be a net gain.<BR><BR>For everyone else, it's a big loss. (While I never used charm in an xp group, I did use mez -- especially with pickup groups. I used both when soloing (quite often).<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>My solution to the changes: I won't solo. Anything. Ever.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I used charm on a raid once. The final step in the Scepter of Rahotep heritage quest. I would charm one of the mobs per wave in order to give our mana hogs in the raid a chance to regen before dealing with the next wave of mobs, up until the last couple of waves where the mobs were not charmable. But I don't consider that a real raid.  Just because Rahotep was x2 I guess it's technically a raid? Anyway... The fact is that most mobs in raids are not charmable ("Will not work on target") so yeah, I never used it on raids either because the fact is I was never allowed to by the game dynamics. </P> <P>Mez on the other hand proved to be invaluable quite a few times, mostly because 'chanters are the least played classes in the game and we were lucky to have one in our guild, much less actually be able to make it to the raids. It <STRONG><U>was</U></STRONG> nice to be able to help out in that aspect. Key word: was. The only chanters we have left in our guild now are sub-50 alts. Guess we better start bribing the owners to start leveling them asap...</P> <P>Another honest question: After these changes, how will you level your Troub in order to keep up with the other classes in your guild level-wise - after they raise the level cap, that is - outside of raid time?</P> <P>Or better yet, any ideas for those of us Troubs who are not in a big raiding guild, who play at odd hours, or who rarely find themselves able to pick up a group consisting of little more than a trio of tank and another <insert iterchangeable class here>? Or ideas for those poor saps whose Troubs aren't level capped yet when the changes do come down from the Dev version of Mount Sinai?</P> <P>I'm sorry. This update just reeks of killing off any FUN or desireability for a Troub who does not have the luxury of being 70 in a mega-huge raiding guild. The sad fact is that most guilds do not raid. Most guilds do not have all level 70s. Most guilds do not have all members decked out in full fabled and full Masters. Why does SOE appear to be tailoring the game based on that playstyle? Is this their solution to the 80/20 rule?  80% of the trivilizing encounters/mobs was coming from 20% of the world wide population?</P> <P>I had hope...  I had hope until I read the updated test notes and saw that they really did intend to push that cr-ap through. Now I'm just looking to compare notes with others and see how maybe we can put our heads together and overcome yet another huge nerfing.</P>

[Sanju]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>SideshowBob wrote:<div>Another honest question: After these changes, how will you level your Troub in order to keep up with the other classes in your guild level-wise - after they raise the level cap, that is - outside of raid time?</div><hr></blockquote>Honest answer: I don't expect to be playing this game by the time the level cap is raised again. This change will kill a lot of the 'fun' factor for me, too. I did often solo random things during off-times. That won't happen anymore. All those quests in my journal I've been meaning to go back and finish? Might as well delete them, because if I'm logged on with my Troub now, I'll either be raiding or afk.</div><p>Message Edited by Sanju on <span class=date_text>05-18-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:32 PM</span>

[SideshowBob]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SideshowBob wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Another honest question: After these changes, how will you level your Troub in order to keep up with the other classes in your guild level-wise - after they raise the level cap, that is - outside of raid time?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Honest answer: I don't expect to be playing this game by the time the level cap is raised again. <BR><BR>This change will kill a lot of the 'fun' factor for me, too. I did often solo random things during off-times. That won't happen anymore. All those quests in my journal I've been meaning to go back and finish? Might as well delete them, because if I'm logged on with my Troub now, <FONT color=#ffff00>I'll either be raiding or afk</FONT>.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sanju on <SPAN class=date_text>05-18-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:32 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Or /afk raiding?  :smileywink:</P> <P>I know exactly what you're saying though.  The sad part about the /afk raiding 'joke' is that for most people it's going to be a reality, not a joke.  :smileysad:</P>

[Jooneau]

8 second charm with 1 minute recast timer is just insulting beyond belief.A 20 second mez with a 20 second recast timer also sucks, but it is golden compared to that P.O.S. they're calling LU24 Bria's Entrancing Sonnet.

[Cuz]

Might as well make it a 180 second casting time. It won't really make it any less useful...

[Toskrin]

<DIV>You want insulting - they just lowered the casting time of this pig from 3.0 to 2.5 seconds.  Someone's idea of a joke...</DIV>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote><hr>Toskrin wrote:<div>You want insulting - they just lowered the casting time of this pig from 3.0 to 2.5 seconds.  Someone's idea of a joke...</div><hr></blockquote>is it just me...or is most of the bard posts in the 'in testing' area gone?<div></div>

[Sile]

I didn't see mention of all hostile actions ( - all our debuffs) breaking mez now.  Did they remove it from test? or is this just a "stealth" change we'll see?<div></div>

[kerel]

I believe i saw a post somewhere saying that was a bug (non hostile debuffs breaking mez that is) and was being corrected.<div></div>

[Emerix]

<DIV>Does anyone know by how much the Steal essence damage was increased ?</DIV>

[starlight02]

<DIV>yeah...charming was the only way i stood a chance of soloing more than one mob at a time.  oh well.  maybe it won't be as bad as it sounds.  on the bright side, i can now use that concentration slot i save for charm on some other buff.  =)  *crosses fingers and hopes for the best*  take care!!!</DIV>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote><hr>Emerix wrote:<div>Does anyone know by how much the Steal essence damage was increased ?</div><hr></blockquote>im almost willing to bet..on test server they stealth lowered the damage on essence..then this patch they increased it back to normal.<div></div>

[Snublefot]

<P><FONT color=#6633cc><SPAN>Brannoc</SPAN> -- Please remember to send your questios to [QT]Sprite as questions sent to me or any developer will NOT make it into the line up and will not be answered.<BR><SPAN>Brannoc</SPAN> -- *ironman__2000* Also, with the upcoming changes that are on test server, that are being made to stuns and mezzes, why change everyones abilities instead of just making enchanters better at what they do?<BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- I'm glad you asked this question -- It's a complicated answer.<BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- (Which is why it's taken me an hour to type <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0><BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- Please keep in mind -- This series of changes isn't entirely about the Enchanter classes. One of the problems that EQ2 currently has is the ability for creatures to become entirely stunlocked, permanently stifled, or dazed, making them far easier than they really should have been. "Just buffing enchanters" wouldn't really have solved that issue, but rather made it worse.<BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- One of the goals with EQ2 is to not turn it into a game where there's a class that you need before you do anything interesting at all, and just buffing one pair of classes even further in this regard would mean we'd have to now balance the difficulty of the entire game around this new power, which would create a huge gap between those with and without enchanters nearby.<BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- The idea is to make the <STRONG>distribution of these powerful abilities a little more fair</STRONG>, without having to rebalance the rest of the game around them. I know that some folks are unhappy hearing this, but we do have to keep an eye on the long term health of EQ2 first and foremost, to ensure it's a game we can keep fun to play for many, many years to come.<BR><SPAN>Gallenite</SPAN> -- (done)</FONT></P> <P>I dont know about you, but I get this warm happy feeling when thinking about how I help distributing my powerfull abilities a little more fairly. I'll sure smile when I see "certain other classes" solo tripple up yellows while I run by trying to get rid of the second green single arrow add.</P>

[Dukda]

<blockquote><hr>Snublefot wrote:<div></div> <p><b>I dont know about you, but I get this warm happy feeling when thinking about how I help distributing my powerfull abilities a little more fairly. I'll sure smile when I see "certain other classes" solo tripple up yellows while I run by trying to get rid of the second green single arrow add.</b></p><hr></blockquote> A sad LOL....<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Snublefot]

<DIV>The swindle essence increase seems to be 20% to min and max damage. Better then nothing, but adds about 8 dps if you manage to use it every time its up. Not going to make any real diffrence on the +t4 fights. </DIV>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote><hr>Snublefot wrote:<div>The swindle essence increase seems to be 20% to min and max damage. Better then nothing, but adds about 8 dps if you manage to use it every time its up. Not going to make any real diffrence on the +t4 fights. </div><hr></blockquote>wait a second...you have moved out to t4? how!?<div></div>

[Emerix]

How nice .. the DIRGES .. will get a new hat ..

[pikeymoose]

After all the pats on the back SOny is getting from LU24 they expect subscriptions to increase by 50% in the coming year. With so many happy players patting them on the back for tuning up the GOD MODE Troubadors that were ruining their playing experience, one can only see happy trails ahead.No more power gaming, disruptive, soloing, farming, and bullies on the servers now. On to the next problem.I dreamed that I read this post in a devs diary. Job satisfaction at Sony is at an all time record for their fine work?Moose