A vision for the Troubador

[Glamourpuss]

<DIV>We're in trouble as a class.  BIG TROUBLE.  With no explanation why, effort to offer us something in return, or even sympathy from SOE.  Even more troubling is there seems to be no clear developer's vision for the future of our beloved class.  If they won't offer one, how about this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We have three class defining abilities given in the DoF manual;  we inspire our fellows, we drain our enemies power, and we crowd control.  Okay.  Number 2 doesn't work and Number 3 is about to be blasted into oblivion, so that leaves us with Number 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, if we're gonna be a buff class, then we need to be the best there is.  Irreplacable and unique.  Isn't that the vision for each class?  A lot of other classes have buffs that equal or outdo our own, too many to list.  So, let them keep theirs.  That's only fair, but rework all our buffs so we are the class that a group or a raid simply must have to <EM>lead them into battle</EM>.  Make our buffs just that bit better than every other class, make our buffs shine.  Go forth the Troub!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To further enhance things, bring in instruments!  Different instruments would give different enhancements to different classes.  If we were in a melee heavy group we would bring out the drums.  If we were in a caster heavy group strap on the lute!  Priests, a flute... and I don't mean twisting, there has to be some other way.  There has to be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What do you think?  Be nice?  (I haven't made a post of my own before :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Glamourpuss on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 AM</span>

[Cynnigig]

They seem to have stealth-nerfed the troubadour class description, as I was made aware of today. If you go to <A href="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/" target=_blank>http://everquest2.station.sony.com/</A> and look at the class description under Characters -> Professions, there is nothing about crowd control. It only says buff bot in more flowery words.

[Glamourpuss]

<P>Wow.  They stealth nerfed our class description?  They're really out for blood, aren't they?</P> <P>Why on earth would they be doing this?  If they keep going, pretty soon roll call in troub school will go something like this,</P> <P>"Bueller?  Bueller?  Ferris Bueller?"</P> <P>So come one, devs, SAVE FERRIS! </P>

[Trabbart]

<P>If they REALLY changed the description and are trying to rewrite history without even a comment ,  than its over and out as far as i am concerned. Such blatant lack of respect i cannot get over.</P> <P>I also wish all of them the same treatment they have given my character class in  their Real Lives. I hope SOE sacks some of them without any explanation, lowers their wages and puts them to work outside in a black container during the summer months.  And i dont wanna hear any of them whine about flatscreens either or how the artists have such a nice workspace and canteen. Keep your mouths shut and work.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Ikikik, commisioning a dirge for his own funeral.</P>

[Jooneau]

I played an Enchanter in EQ1 so I am used to my class of choice being nerfed into being a buffbot. /golfclap SOE

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>Ok, copied it over here so we can all look at it and think :smileyhappy:</P> <P><STRONG><EM>"Troubadours <U>inspire</U> and <U>protect</U> their companions with songs of bravery and heroism. By infusing music with magic, Troubadours <U>embolden</U> their allies into performing outstanding feat of courage against their opponents. The Troubadours songs are particularly popular with <U>spellcasters</U>"</EM></STRONG></P> <P>I've underlined a few key parts, but generally what this description says is that Troubadours are buffers. What I think we should deduce then, as the OP pointed out, is that we ought to be the best buffers in the game. Although currently the Troubadour does appear to have the widest range of buffs, again as the OP pointed out there are others that can buff as well or even better than the Troubadour.</P> <P>Part of this reason may be because of the wealth of buffs, and also because we aren't just popular with spellcasters (in that we have melee relevant buffs in well, eg haste or STR/STA)</P> <P>But to go back to the role description;</P> <P><STRONG><U>Inspire</U></STRONG></P> <P>Can we assume that inspiration could mean our spell procs? Maybe power regen?</P> <P><STRONG><U>Protect</U></STRONG></P> <P>I take it this means our two resist buffs, possibly also defence and agro reducer</P> <P><STRONG><U>Embolden</U></STRONG></P> <P>Perhaps the melee relevant buffs, such as raxxyl's or haste</P> <P><STRONG><U>Spellcasters</U></STRONG></P> <P>Skill buff and procs</P> <P>So I guess it covers it all, which is disheartening. The fact remains, however, that if these are our roles, we really aren't doing an amazing job at it. Spell procs took their hit, lots of other classes buff resistances and defence is easily capped, dirges provide the best melee buffs, the only things that are really spellcaster specific are the procs and skill buff (is the skill buff any good anyway?). Hate reducer?</P> <P>Even more dishearetning is that this new description, the things that are covered are, for the most part, completely passive. What do we actually <EM>do</EM>? All of the buffs I mentioned....we aren't doing that at all, the game is doing it. We told it what buffs we wanted to use, then that was the end of our activity.</P> <P>If we are to be buffers, then there needs to be a proper vision for the class. Jack of all trades worked fine....when we had good crowd control. I'm afraid that just isn't going to cut it for me post LU24.</P> <P>If Spellcasters are listed, then can we have more attention paid to this perhaps? What do we have to offer specifically healers for example? Off the top of my head, why not a heal proc, where the priest has a % chance to heal for an additional amount on a succesful heal? Take away HP regen and replace it with something like that, which is actually useful, and it would be a start. Its still passive, but its something that would be worth casting in the first place.</P> <P>Protection also, it's not exactly something we excel at, so why put it in the description? If someone could please get round to looking at RoR, turn it into a ward or shield or something that actually worked, then that may count as protection.</P> <P>Not sure what else to say. It's a bummer that our active role no longer is that fun, but since our passive one is also far from powerful it is something that has to be looked at as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sigh</P> <P> </P>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cynnigig wrote:<BR> They seem to have stealth-nerfed the troubadour class description, as I was made aware of today. If you go to <A href="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/" target=_blank>http://everquest2.station.sony.com/</A> and look at the class description under Characters -> Professions, there is nothing about crowd control. It only says buff bot in more flowery words.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yeah I noticed that too when I was thinking about making a post comparing what we were originally intended as to what we became to what we are becoming... grrrrrr.  LOL I'm beginning to think we are becoming is really... extinct.  Bah.  Such a shame... people are going to miss us...</P> <P>"Why haven't you been on as Ladyjay lately?"</P> <P>"Oh, because now it's no fun"</P> <P>"But we could really use you in this group/raid"</P> <P>"Well I have to go out for a few hours in a little bit, so I'll log on to her and join you."</P> <P>"But didn't you say you had to go out?"</P> <P>"Yeah, you don't really need me. I'll just autofollow someone and you should be set... just let me know who's in the group so I know which buffs to throw on... at least I won't be putting up Daelis' so I'll be putting all five up for you."</P> <P> </P>

[reaper_m]

<P>The more I think about it, the more I believe that it's necessary to start calling for nerfs on the buff abilities of other classes. I'm sure we're all familiar with the usual argument, if you buff up a class then you'd have to scale up the content so as not to make it trivial for the player base. So a nerf call on other classes seem to be the only choice.</P> <P>What I'm worried about is the group desirability of troubadours after LU24. Our buffs are not unique, a combination of other classes will provide the same buffs that we can, except for Alin's Serenade (which isn't used much in groups anyways). Chanters will have the edge over us in terms of group desirability after LU24 as they share some of our important buffs. For instance, illusionists have both mana regen and the haste buff and they have CC abilities in addition to that. If you're a group leader and given the choice between a troubadour and an illusionist, which would you choose? DPS wise, chanters and bards have comparable DPS. We both have the all important mana regen and to a lesser extent, the haste buff. Don't forget that chanters have spell procs too. And after LU24, chanters will have CC over bards. If I was that group leader, I'd choose the illusionist.</P> <P>Since the devs are intent on making CC the sole province of chanters and turning us into buff bots, it would be only fair if chanter buffs are removed as well. This goes for other classes as well, like the monk's haste, the zerker's health regen and every other group buff there is out there. They need to be either removed or reduced in effectiveness or else the combined buffs of classes would make troubadours obsolete. Let's not forget that this was the reason given for nerfing CC abilities, that the combined CC ability of other classes were what made chanters obsolete and undesirable in groups. Soon troubadours will be faced with the same problem.</P> <P>In all honesty, calling for nerfs on other classes is not what I want. I'd rather they give us a boost to our dps now that we're losing a portion of our utility. I'd rather be able to say to the group that you have the choice between a chanter's CC ability and the bard's superior DPS. But we all know SOE's track record with requests for DPS boosts. However, I agree with the OP. If we are to be buffbots, then make us the best and most unique buffbots there is. No other class should give the buffs that we gives and no one should do it better.</P>

[thorvang]

i'd like to see a more active role for the troubadour. but how can this be done for a buffer? maybe some questionable buffs should be turned into debuffs or more obviously beneficial spells.requiem of reflection:it just isn't worth the conc. the chance to reflect a spell is minimal and it's just up to the casters level. not very useful against "t8" mobs.proposed change: short range debuff. if successful the next spell casted by the target will either fizzle (common effect) or damage the target (rare effect)skill song (dove etc.):i don't see any great use in this. casters don't seem to hit much more often with this. and the tradeoff is you have to cancel other way more useful buffs.proposed change: "caster haste", reduces cast time of spells.defense buff (balletic etc.):the impact of defense is questionable since the combat revamp (lu13). i just don't see such great usefulness in a mere ~3% more avoidance, especially in dd groups.proposed change: short time buff that grants immunity to trauma damage."heal" song (quiron's):it may help in very long drawn out fights. but personally i don't use it. i rather spent the conc in more useful buffs.proposed change: direct group heal. either relatively small amount with short recast (think of ~1000 hp at t7 with 20s recast) or high amount with long recast (~5000 at t7 with 90s recast)with these changes the troub could fill the role of a "group protector".rogues are pretty good light tanks due to their taunts and aoe attacks.rangers and assassins... well, they do insane burst damage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />so, if there's no healer around you may get along with a skilled troub <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by thorvang on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:50 PM</span>

[Sanju]

For my playstyle (raiding), we're not in "BIG TROUBLE". The control changes don't really hinder my usefulness in raids, except in extreme circumstances (no enchanters on to mez).For every other playstyle -- I agree it's a big hit.If our buffs were enhanced or changed to be "the best", then we'd take a major hit elsewhere (probably dps or agro control).I won't waste my time giving feedback on how to "save" the Troubadors. It won't be read in any case. It's been painfully obvious since KoS beta that bards are a forgotten class.<div></div>

[thorvang]

only those who speak can be heard.

[Belisarius]

Haha they nerfed our description! Thats to funny

[Vandileir]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> reaper_man wrote:<BR> <P>Since the devs are intent on making CC the sole province of chanters and turning us into buff bots, it would be only fair if chanter buffs are removed as well. This goes for other classes as well, like the monk's haste, the zerker's health regen and every other group buff there is out there. They need to be either removed or reduced in effectiveness or else the combined buffs of classes would make troubadours obsolete. Let's not forget that this was the reason given for nerfing CC abilities, that the combined CC ability of other classes were what made chanters obsolete and undesirable in groups. Soon troubadours will be faced with the same problem.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>No, this is a very very very good idea. One I'm sure that SOE will aggree with. After all, they just nerfed every other class because chanters were under powered. This isnt that far a cry from the new LU24  "fix" to that class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm a bard, a troubador. In accordance with my new description, I buff groups, thats what I do best, thats all I do, thats all I'm good at, thats what I specialize in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fine, take group buffs away from every other class in the game. or severly reduce there effectivness. thats fair IMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should they be able to do MY job. They have there own jobs to do, they cant do both. Such a concept as a hybrid class is game breaking and dangerous to the player base and balance of game mechanics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I buff groups. No one else should do it like me, so all those other classes are broken, not mine, fix them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And while were at it, take the taunt away from brigands, there not fighters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take heals and wards away from paladins, those dont belong there, there not healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take life taps away from necros and SK's, i'm sorry, your a dps class and a tank, not a priest</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>take clarity away from chanters, i'm sorry, thats a group buff. it falls under my jurisdiction. if you dont like it, play a bard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take nukes away from furys, i'm sorry, your not mages and shouldnt be doing ANY damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and all those little pets the warden gets, and the mystic AA line pet, take them away. sorry, your not pet casters and shouldnt have that functionality no matter how sub par it is compared to them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have i made my point?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Vandileir on <span class=date_text>05-15-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span>

[Killerbee3000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WorldsAway_Nybor wrote:<BR> <P>Ok, copied it over here so we can all look at it and think :smileyhappy:</P> <P><STRONG><EM>"Troubadours <U>inspire</U> and <U>protect</U> their companions with songs of bravery and heroism. By infusing music with magic, Troubadours <U>embolden</U> their allies into performing outstanding feat of courage against their opponents. The Troubadours songs are particularly popular with <U>spellcasters</U>"</EM></STRONG></P> <P>I've underlined a few key parts, but generally what this description says is that Troubadours are buffers. What I think we should deduce then, as the OP pointed out, is that we ought to be the best buffers in the game. Although currently the Troubadour does appear to have the widest range of buffs, again as the OP pointed out there are others that can buff as well or even better than the Troubadour.</P> <P>Part of this reason may be because of the wealth of buffs, and also because we aren't just popular with spellcasters (in that we have melee relevant buffs in well, eg haste or STR/STA)</P> <P>But to go back to the role description;</P> <P><STRONG><U>Inspire</U></STRONG></P> <P>Can we assume that inspiration could mean our spell procs? Maybe power regen?</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>spell proc's? got nerfed in lu 23, power regen? yes we have it but chanters have it too</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><U>Protect</U></STRONG></P> <P>I take it this means our two resist buffs, possibly also defence and agro reducer</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>resist buff? i get my resists up to 10k witohut even casting any of my resist buffs, defence? adds some avoidance which is nice for soloing, but in raids? worhtless (raids mt has it capped anyways) </FONT><FONT color=#33cc00>aggro reducer? the only reason troubadours can find a group</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><U>Embolden</U></STRONG></P> <P>Perhaps the melee relevant buffs, such as raxxyl's or haste</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>other classes have those buffs too</FONT></P> <P><STRONG><U>Spellcasters</U></STRONG></P> <P>Skill buff and procs</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>aria got nerfed, and with all the +(add casting skill here) gear the casting skill buff is worthless</FONT></P> <P>So I guess it covers it all, which is disheartening. The fact remains, however, that if these are our roles, we really aren't doing an amazing job at it. Spell procs took their hit, lots of other classes buff resistances and defence is easily capped, dirges provide the best melee buffs, the only things that are really spellcaster specific are the procs and skill buff (is the skill buff any good anyway?). Hate reducer?</P> <P>Even more dishearetning is that this new description, the things that are covered are, for the most part, completely passive. What do we actually <EM>do</EM>? All of the buffs I mentioned....we aren't doing that at all, the game is doing it. We told it what buffs we wanted to use, then that was the end of our activity.</P> <P>If we are to be buffers, then there needs to be a proper vision for the class. Jack of all trades worked fine....when we had good crowd control. I'm afraid that just isn't going to cut it for me post LU24.</P> <P>If Spellcasters are listed, then can we have more attention paid to this perhaps? What do we have to offer specifically healers for example? Off the top of my head, why not a heal proc, where the priest has a % chance to heal for an additional amount on a succesful heal? Take away HP regen and replace it with something like that, which is actually useful, and it would be a start. Its still passive, but its something that would be worth casting in the first place.</P> <P>Protection also, it's not exactly something we excel at, so why put it in the description? If someone could please get round to looking at RoR, turn it into a ward or shield or something that actually worked, then that may count as protection.</P> <P>Not sure what else to say. It's a bummer that our active role no longer is that fun, but since our passive one is also far from powerful it is something that has to be looked at as well.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>they are killing the active role and forcing us in the boring passive one. </FONT></P> <P>Sigh</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>thorvang wrote:only those who speak can be heard.<hr></blockquote>If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?</div>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>i'd like to see a more active role for the troubadour. but how can this be done for a buffer? maybe some questionable buffs should be turned into debuffs or more obviously beneficial spells.<BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by thorvang on <SPAN class=date_text>05-15-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>04:50 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Short buffs. Like 0.5 cast, 3 second cool down, 10 second duration. Make then nice and nasty. Sort of like the Monk mit buff, or a melee proc that doesn't have a limit of procs it just wears off but can be reapplied.</P> <P>Hell make them instruments. I'm sure some crafters would be happy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I'd have every "type" of instrument have a different buff. Just an example, lets say guitar has a melee proc, bongo defence proc, and violin cast proc. You give them he stats I mentioned up top, and make them share the same cool down. So that way a good troub would have macros set up for switching instruments and could keep the 3 buffs up on 3 different chars (one on each).</P> <P>Right now a good troub is one that is at the computer.</P>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> thorvang wrote:i'd like to see a more active role for the troubadour. but how can this be done for a buffer? <hr> </blockquote> <p>Short buffs. Like 0.5 cast, 3 second cool down, 10 second duration. </p><hr></blockquote>You won't get much support for the return of 'twisting' in this forum. </div>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>i'd like to see a more active role for the troubadour. but how can this be done for a buffer?  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Short buffs. Like 0.5 cast, 3 second cool down, 10 second duration.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You won't get much support for the return of 'twisting' in this forum.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I just get sooooo bored playing my troub. I want a class with more finess. So far it seems that the only pre req to not be a terrible troub is that your parents have different family trees. I'm sure great troub players must do some neat things, I'm not one of them. But the difference between a good troub and a bad one, is that the bad troub must be flat out stupid.</P> <P>Out of curiosity, what do you think of my idea? I can't tell if you're including yourself in "this forum".</P>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WorldsAway_Nybor wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG><EM>"The Troubadours songs are particularly popular with <U>spellcasters</U>"</EM></STRONG><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's not even true.  The only spells that fall under this catagory are Aria and Dove Song.  Aria's been really nerfed and Dove Song has always been useless.

[thorvang]

twisting sucks. smashing the same four buttons again and again has been "skill" on the atari2600, but it isn't in a rpg.

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div><p>Out of curiosity, what do you think of my idea? I can't tell if you're including yourself in "this forum".</p><hr></blockquote>I agree that I'd like a more 'active' role in raids, but I'm not sure that buff twisting is the way to go. I suppose it would depend on the implementation, but I'm a raider, so I don't want to be spamming buffs for 10 minutes while trying to avoid the agro that it'll inevitably generate. I envision a dead Troub in that scenario.  (I know, I know, the good troubs will learn to twist effectively without pulling agro, but it still makes my fingers cramp up thinking about it.)<blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote: That's not even true.  The only spells that fall under this catagory are Aria and Dove Song.  Aria's been really nerfed and Dove Song has always been useless.<hr></blockquote>Precision of the Meastro as well.  Also mana regen and agro reducer (though other classes benefit from those as well as casters) ... if you want to talk about non-combat runspeed and Raxxyls (casters love it after dying, so that they can actually run instead of crawl) ... but yeah, we don't have anything major that tailors specifically to casters other than Precision.</div>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Precision of the Meastro as well.  Also mana regen and agro reducer (though other classes benefit from those as well as casters) ... if you want to talk about non-combat runspeed and Raxxyls (casters love it after dying, so that they can actually run instead of crawl) ... but yeah, we don't have anything major that tailors specifically to casters other than Precision.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I forgot Precision, but none of the others really help casters anymore than they do scouts or priests.

[Narben Von Nacht]

No twisting please. We already do bugger all dps. Standing around mashing buff keys instead of using spells and CA's would be the complete death of the class. Twisting = final acceptance as a buff only class<div></div>

[Killerbee3000]

<FONT color=#669900></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sanju wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> <P>Out of curiosity, what do you think of my idea? I can't tell if you're including yourself in "this forum".</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I agree that I'd like a more 'active' role in raids, but I'm not sure that buff twisting is the way to go. I suppose it would depend on the implementation, but I'm a raider, so I don't want to be spamming buffs for 10 minutes while trying to avoid the agro that it'll inevitably generate. I envision a dead Troub in that scenario.  (I know, I know, the good troubs will learn to twist effectively without pulling agro, but it still makes my fingers cramp up thinking about it.)</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900> I think they need to do something completly new, something noone did before and do it better than anyone before. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#669900>buffs are the key to troubadours so soe should come up with a completly new and unique way buffs work just for troubadours, something that adds in some challenge and some long time motivation. bards are no uber dps, cc is going to be nerfed, so buffs will be the only important thing left to our class.</FONT><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vinterskugge wrote:<BR>That's not even true.  The only spells that fall under this catagory are Aria and Dove Song.  Aria's been really nerfed and Dove Song has always been useless.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>Precision of the Meastro as well.  Also mana regen and agro reducer (though other classes benefit from those as well as casters) ... if you want to talk about non-combat runspeed and Raxxyls (casters love it after dying, so that they can actually run instead of crawl) ... but yeah, we don't have anything major that tailors specifically to casters other than Precision.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[FinalOrder]

So they are going to turn us into buff bots? Who wants to play a buff bot.. put up buffs, and fall asleep with autofollow on.. boring and rediculous. I have 2 idea's on why they are doing this! 1) Someone in the company is trying to get fired, so they are doing this to get their bosses attention! or 2) SOE wants to go bankrupt so they are trying to get rid of their players... Well, if I wanted to be jobless or I didnt want to work for SOE anymore.. that would be awesome to do <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Maestroofsong]

<DIV>Come on guys, Troubs are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over powered <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Retired lvl 70 Troub</DIV>

[Glamourpuss]

<P>As I said first off, I really don't want to see twisting brought back to game.  That was an RSI/Carpal Tunnel nightmare in EQ1.  But as others have pointed out, we do need to have something to <EM>do, </EM>not just be a passive buffbot.  We signed up to play a game, not to spend money to sit and watch an animated fight-scene.  We can watch TV for that.</P> <P>Now buffs or de-buffs are, by their nature, not the most active of things.  If this is our role, would instruments help?  Would buffs that we have to hit at just the right moment to be truly effective work?</P> <P>My playstyle at the moment heavily relies on, well, Lullaby and Sonnet, but I just have to get over that :smileysad:  But I also use Bellow and Cheap Shot constantly for the interrupts.  It gives me a bit more time to get some damage in, and keeps the damage off me.  What this means is that I'm constantly watching, esp. in the case of caster mobs, for the signs of a spell being cast.  Then bang, I interrupt.  And nuke away!  Will have to forget about that technique too after LU24, I suppose :smileymad:</P> <P>If we used instruments or some of our buffs were changed to work in this way, it would be a more active method of being a buffbot.  We would need to be on the watch out for the specific visuals, or if they use macro's a /tell message, of our allies using a particular spell or art, and we would have to time the playing of an instrument or the hitting of a buff to get the required effect.</P> <P>Would this work, do you think?</P> <P>--------------------</P> <P>Sashae Chante - 57 (almost 58!) Troub of LDL</P> <P>SAVE FERRIS TROUBLER!</P>

[pikeymoose]

Come on guys, Troubs are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over powered Hmm maybe true. I soloed a 67^ mob outside halls of fate as a 65 Troubador. This will not be the same without a charmed pet. Not that it was a heroic mob, but soloing a one up arrow that is larger than an even con is simple broken.........LOL.Moose