We got nerfed. Again.

[Zeral498]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>And this time feces have finally hit the rotary blades. Master I Reverie: Duration, 20 seconds. (Decreased by 30 seconds)                             Recast, 20 seconds. (Increased by 11 seconds)                             Power Cost, 192. (No change) Master I Bria's Infatuating Sonnet: Duration, 8 seconds (Decreased by 7 minutes and 22 seconds)                                                        Recast, 1 minute (Increased by how much I don't remember)                                                        Power Cost, 169 (No change)                                                        Casting Time, 3 seconds (Went down)                                                        No longer requires concentration.                                                        Full pet functionality added.                                                        Still 10% chance to break when attacked. This is on Test currently. The devs say "these can change in the future," but let's face it. They put something on Test and they just pass it through Live anyway. These won't change. SoE is killing our class and is doing a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good job at it right now. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Zeral498 on <span class="date_text">05-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:08 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Zeral498 on <span class="date_text">05-10-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:12 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Zeral498 on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:34 PM</span>

[Kw]

/follow /afk Kwix 70 buff-bot <div></div>

[Cuz]

<P>Greatle reduced = made useless...</P> <P>It's neat that we can control them, but come on...</P>

[Zapdafi]

<DIV>man, I have loved playin a troubador up until to this point. a large part of that was the ability to CC in groups. they put this in and alot of that fun is gone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>why the hell are they taking away more from the troub class? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>jesters cap - stealth nerfed to 30 min recast</DIV> <DIV>alin's serene serenade - capped this at 40% in t6</DIV> <DIV>rousing opus - broken? adept 3 is the same as exhilerating opus master</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>are troubs so friggen powerful? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[schwantz007]

<DIV>So in return for all these 'balances', which include the recent proc 'adjustment', what is in it for us? Maybe make Dirges evil so I can betray? Guess i'll just have to dig deep in order to justify my 'utility' yet again (I am very good at it, especially since last september) Or do the developers have a present in store for us? Maybe after the enchanters are helped out SoE will look in the lowly direction of the Dirge and Troub? </DIV>

[Kraks_Aforty]

I went from 800 - 900 DPS (very well equipped, in a great group for doing DPS mind you) in raid situations to 400 - 550 (exact same group) after LU23.  LU24 is going to finish killing off what I believed was the best working class in game.Bravo SOE, bravo.<div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>Eight second charm?  What's the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing point?  It was fine as it was!  Come on, it's not like we're overpowered compared to enchanters, what was the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing point in this nerf?</DIV>

[Trabbart]

<DIV>Summer is here :smileyhappy:, Temperatures are rising. And finally i can put my troub on autofollow for live. Lu 23/24 couldnt have come at a better time. Maybe i'll check in again when it becomes colder and LU 30 hits the fan . Than again maybe not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ikikik, on a well deserved Holiday.</DIV>

[Cygnu]

<P>OMG they don't do things by half do they!</P> <P>A 20s recast on a 20s Mez spell. Thats a major change meaning we can now only mez one mob at a time. Is this part of the changes to make enchanters more desirable maybe, but rather than give them something, they take away from others. Pathetic.</P> <P>And although the full pet charm functionality sounds fun, whats the point if it only lasts for 8 seconds? Come on SOE, get a clue and leave our class alone!</P>

[vinterskugge]

I always said I wouldn't, but I'm really considering levelling a new main.  The only thing stopping me is that things change so often, I'd probably have that character nerfed too.

[Snublefot]

<DIV>Might as well remove the Troub charm from game. 8 seconds? Its so useless its got to be a typo. Never used it offensivly myself, but its saved me more then a few times where adds come or the target I fight simply proved too hard. WIth 8 s duration and more then a minute recast.... Where is the point? Is this my one shot Taunt to be rescue my partner when I duo? Possible the only use I can see for it. Full controll? FFS, we wont even have time to click on anything, or for the mob to reach any target (but you). Its a pure suicide button in solo play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was one of the few fun things I could do in a group SOE! And Solo anything with 1 up arrow will from now be down to luck. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] this. They have already stated Troubs would not be included in the Epic-mez changes. Fine with me, but then why the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] change the mez at all? In what way shape or form is Troubs so overpowered we should be alowed to mez 2 targets at once? Its pure bull[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And to finish the stupidity, stun was reduced too. 4s? Its going to be really really hard to get into position and get Dancing Blade off...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It hurts now SOE. And its going to hurt you too. Wallet type. But I guess the 50 active troubs worldwide wont matter much in the greater scene. I just hope noone realize another caster in a raid caster group way outdamage the little dps we do and the damage we add to the team with buffs...</DIV>

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Snublefot wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I just hope noone realize another caster in a raid caster group way outdamage the little dps we do and the damage we add to the team with buffs...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>As long as Alin's stays as it is, I can't see us losing our places in a raid anytime soon.  But how many people want to play a class that's only useful for one buff?</P>

[Cygnu]

<P>I can understand the mez change if it now effects Epic targets. Does it?</P> <P>And also, did they leave the lvl 50 one alone? i.e. longer duration for non Epic targets.</P> <P>As for the charm, if they made it last at least 2 mins, I can go with the change (full control and no conc slot), but 8 seconds?  Seriously, whats up with that :smileymad:</P><p>Message Edited by CygnusX on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:41 AM</span>

[Kraks_Aforty]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>vinterskugge wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Snublefot wrote: <div> </div> <div> I just hope noone realize another caster in a raid caster group way outdamage the little dps we do and the damage we add to the team with buffs...</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>As long as Alin's stays as it is, I can't see us losing our places in a raid anytime soon.  But how many people want to play a class that's only useful for one buff?</p><hr></blockquote>Not me. These changes go live, I will be switching characters or quitting the game.  Troubadors have been fugged up enough after LU23, now they are just trying to drive the last nail in the coffin.Hey Lockeye - Your changes are moronic.  Everything was fine with control spells.  The only thing people wanted for enchanters was a bit of DPS or to make SOME of their spells worth a flip in raids.  To do that, you didn't have to break everyone else, but I guess that's the SOE way, eh?I can see on a wall in SOE's offices:<div align="center"><b>SOE Mottos</b>If it ain't broke, fix it until it breaks.It is better to cut the body off from the head to preserve the brain than to clean out an infection.Whatever the KGB can do to your arm, we can do to your class and cover it up just as well.To nerf or not to nerf?  That is the question which we already know the answer to:  Hell yeah!</div></div><p>Message Edited by Kraks_Aforty on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:41 AM</span>

[Ghetto Guru]

<P>        By the time you finish reading this sentence, the creature which you had just charmed is un charmed, really [Removed for Content], and looking  for some payback :manmad:</P> <P>    I'm still in shock.  8 seconds...  Do any of the people whom make these changes actually play this game.  They might as well just take charm out of our arsenal.  What is the point of a time duration that short, even if it is complete control.  It's plan insulting. Can someone explain to me why they are taking so much away from the least played class in this game.  We can't even mezz more than enemy at a time now!  We are not the top of the DPS food chain and now we are pretty much close to the bottom of the barrel for group utility.  Troubadors.. we must not let this happen.  How can they take so much and give back nothing.  If they are going to nerf abilities that set us apart from the other scouts, how about giving us a few that the other scouts have that we are lacking. *Cough Cough.. Poison.. :smileysurprised:   I'm not talking about that passive aa poison that you have to spend a good amount of aa to get.  I want the real deal! How about a vile of the good stuff heh?!  I mean.. honestly.. Our debuffs are nothing compared to Brigand.  Our CA's don't even come close to anything that an Assassin can deal out..  What is the point of playing our class now if they destroy the main abilities that set us apart. </P> <P> </P> <P>    Madam Nienna</P> <P>    lvl 70 Troubador   </P>

[thorvang]

SOE must be kidding, charm is back to LU#1 status: worthless.and to keep a mob mezzed i have to jester myself now?<p>Message Edited by thorvang on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:40 AM</span>

[Emerix]

i thought that change is only for epic targets . so we charm an epic and control it for 8 sec while normal charm lasts longer ...thats how i got it .. epic targets will be mezzable .. but once mez times out they will be immune to mez for a while . kinda like jesters

[vinterskugge]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emerix wrote:<BR> i thought that change is only for epic targets . so we charm an epic and control it for 8 sec while normal charm lasts longer ...thats how i got it .. epic targets will be mezzable .. but once mez times out they will be immune to mez for a while . kinda like jesters<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No.  Only enchanters will be able to mez epics.</P> <P>Our mez will be 20 sec duration/recast, our charm 8 sec duration, 1 min recast.  This is on normal mobs.</P>

[vinterskugge]

<P>On an unrelated topic - are there any plans to allow non-US customers to use station exchange in the near future?</P>

[Emerix]

hopefully very soon scafly

[Falkounet]

One more nerf on our regen power/hp and troubys will be usefull as a assassin playing only with autoattack and without poisons.When devs will stop these stupid nerfs ?What to do with a 8sec charmed pet that can't be used to tank ?I was already fool to see my mezz broken by some stupid guys that don't now what is a mezz after the 50th lvl, but now with a 20sec recast that sounds very fun to play a troub.I think I'll go on my defiler if these changes go on live servers.<div></div>

[Fildarum]

wow...My first toon was a troub, and I shelfed him ages ago because of how lacking the class was.  I just started playing him again, now it looks like I might as well delete both my troubs....

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>Very sad indeed. I don't get it. </P> <P>As I stated elsewhere, this isn't about being powerful, its about having fun. Its about actually having something to do when playing the game besides auto following.</P> <P>If it goes ahead like this after 18 months and so, so many changes to our class, this would be the one revamp I would simply not be willing to accept. I sincerely hope this does not happen, because I like this game and the people I play with. Didn't want to leave it just yet :smileysad:</P>

[Mishrac]

<P>Are you joking!!! Have i spent the time since launch only to know that now when im starting to get to the high end of the game only to know that.. " Well sorry you picked the Class that we are going to turn in to a [Removed for Content].... Well you can always start a new Char..." well you can just suck on my salty.</P> <P>this is just crap i want a refund if they are going to take the last thing that makes our class worth playing I should be able to get my money back since the time was just a total waste. Or let all the Trubs pick a new class at the same Level as they are today.</P> <P>Fix the class and stop picking on us you [Removed for Content] we are a small Class but that dousnt say we dont have the samr rights as the rest of the world.</P><p>Message Edited by Mishrac on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 PM</span>

[Tevali]

We get no poisons and have few damage, cause we are such a great utility class ...In LU 23, our spellprocs got nerfed, cause Enchanters got to much advantage out of them due to their fast casting abilities. Keep in mind, this was one of our Key DoF abilities and was tweaked (read: nerfed, as first reduced duration, then reduced damage) to not be out of balance long ago.In LU 24 we'll get robbed of our crowed control abilities, another key ability, this time, cause it is said Enchanters have to few use: The 8 second charm with 10% break chance is just a sad joke. The mezz as well. A cut in our abilities, like a 50% duration to mezz would be in line, but not the proposed changes. Those test examples would be fine adjustments on epic encounters, heroic encounters should allow a lot more.<i>(The naming of enchanters is only to show, that we got those nerfs twice in a row as a collateral damage, while working on another class, the compensation for those hits is to low compared to what they mean to us as well, even if we aren't the main target)</i>A troubadour needs to be level 70 and use, as Janus wrote, Jester's Cap to mezz one single target without the fear of being hit already during the recast.<b>I did not start, nor play, nor will I play a troubadour to be a pure afk buffer</b>...Spellprocs and Crowd Control have always been a key element to the troubador class, since they been introduced. I am the last to cry, if a spell needs tweaking, because it hurts the game in any way. But the target to make encounters not to trivial, due to the accumulation of crowd control abilities in nearly every class, could have been reached without removing those abilities also from bards. Enchanters and Bards should be able to effectivly help control crowds, though not in a godly manner. Enchanters to a higher degree. But Bards shouldn't be hit as hard as planned.<div></div>

[J]

<DIV>Between my weaponsmithing not being a viable class, and these proposed changes to my absolute favorite adventure class, I am growing way too tired to fight anymore. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They don't listen. They don't care. They think they're helping but they're not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've been trying to encourage my wife to play her guardian again.  I don't like playing the game without her. If they nerf the troubadours this badly I won't have a reason to encourage her to play with me-- because I won't enjoy playing anyway. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I pay for my wife's account (her guardian), my templar's account to group with her guardian, and my troubadour account that I wanted seperate in case I ever got a third computer. As long as she doesn't play... my templar/weaponsmith rots. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The short fact of the matter is, $45 a month is starting to look really good for something else. I am not going to keep being abused by a company that refuses to listen.</DIV>

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kraks_Aforty wrote:I went from 800 - 900 DPS (very well equipped, in a great group for doing DPS mind you) in raid situations to 400 - 550 (exact same group) after LU23.  LU24 is going to finish killing off what I believed was the best working class in game.Bravo SOE, bravo.<div></div><hr></blockquote>i have to agree 100% with you</div>

[Emerix]

<DIV>I posted something on combat discussion section since they dont check this forum anyways . would be nice if you all could add your opinions there .</DIV>

[J]

<DIV>If you want any chance of stopping this nerf, drop the discussion on combat damage and focus on the nerf. There is always a place for consolidating issues (weaponsmiths consolidate current issues all the time), but when you're trying to point out one single flaw in a plan that is all but complete, your voice will be better heard when you focus on that flaw.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes-- there is a DPS problem. I am not denying that. </DIV> <DIV>But there is a greater chance of the mez/charm issue being ignored if we try to collectively scream about every problem at once. </DIV>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Emerix wrote:<BR> <DIV>I posted something on combat discussion section since they dont check this forum anyways . would be nice if you all could add your opinions there .</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Heh they moved it right back here. Consider this area of the boards a rug. Sweep sweep sweep.

[pikeymoose]

I think Scafloc has it right this time around. Make a new main, park the Troubador for a year or more. To be utility is to be overpowered....and a target for nerfs. Not many want the glory of utility, hense the small numbers played, then Sony has to attack the class with this kind of vigor. If we all stop playing, then maybe the outrage from the rest of the comunity (someone will surely miss our class...besides us) will have Sony bringing back the viability of our utility and we can resume the Troubador we parked.On Strike..Oh and JBW I fell your pain...what is the worst combo possible in this mixed up world of SONYWeaponsmith..70Troubador....64A sucker for punishment.Moose<p>Message Edited by pikeymoose on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 AM</span>

[vinterskugge]

<DIV>My alt is a necro, surprise - another class getting nerfed.  I don't want to choose a new class only for it to be changed completely a few weeks later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm installing EQ1 again.  I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.</DIV>

[J]

<DIV>not going to park... going to cancel.  Just talked with my wife on IM... even she thinks it would be a good idea. If these changes go live, I am not going to stick around. </DIV>

[Emerix]

where exactly does it say the duration of charm only goin to be 8 seconds ?<BR>

[vinterskugge]

First post.  That guy plays on Test as a high level troub.

[ZandaStrooth]

<DIV>After LU13 our 3 Coercers and our Illusionist left game because SOE nerfed their class to the bone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm happy to see the enchanters finally are resurrected now, though I don't understand why it didn't happen at LU14.</DIV> <DIV>1 of our chanters is coming back now, but our Troubadour is leaving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't understand why it is so hard to fix a class without killing another. </DIV> <DIV>I just want to say I feel sorry for the Troubadours.</DIV>

[Zapdafi]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> JBW wrote:<BR> <DIV>not going to park... going to cancel.  Just talked with my wife on IM... even she thinks it would be a good idea. If these changes go live, I am not going to stick around. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>I even took the effort to see when the next billing cycle begins. put a fork in my eye as it's good to August 7th. Got a postit stuck to my monitor now to remind me of that date.  i loved the class once I found it, now I just feels like I got to the end of a great book and am looking around for the next choice and knowing I will be very lucky to find one again soon.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Bumblethither]

I usually stay away from these threads unless i have some popcorn, but this change really does not make any sense at all. Good thinng I have two accounts, now the bard can be a pet on AF. I do enjoy soloing quite a bit when not raiding and this will put a major cramp in my style on that. <br ><div></div>

[Nevari]

I kinda gave up a long while ago. I can't even give input nor do I care that much anymore. Sad aint it?Anyway senseless post with just one intention to tell that I disagree with the changes and agree with you all of you who posted in this thread.<div></div>

[Cuz]

<DIV>Anyone up for starting a thread with recommended books / comics / movies / shows? I have a pretty massive comic collection so I can recommend stuff to read while "playing".</DIV>

[Cragger]

<div>Wow, just wow. Way to gut a class SoE, and you wonder why people get antsy when you 'co-publish' other titles. They where only intrested in the first place because it would get away from you. </div>

[Draks]

<P>My guess:</P> <P>We get hit with the Nerf bat HARD...than when the new expansion comes out, we can spend 1000 hours playing again to grind AA, or whatever, so we come close to having the skills we have now.</P> <P>Sounds right, seen it in EQ 1 a few times.</P>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> <DIV>Anyone up for starting a thread with recommended books / comics / movies / shows? I have a pretty massive comic collection so I can recommend stuff to read while "playing".</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I think that's a great idea... I mean there's only so many drinks you can make while autofollow.  I was sort of a buffbot before but if these changes go live... guess I'll learn to play my husband's templar because even I could two box my troubador then.  By the way, some great book series are:</P> <P>Incarnations of Immortality - Piers Anthony</P> <P>Vlad Taltos series - Steven Brust</P> <P>Outlander series - Diana Gabaldon</P> <P>The book I will be able to write while my troubador is /follow on a group member...</P>

[Cuz]

<P>Posted elsewhere by me:</P> <P>Sometime ago they mentioned that they were going to implement a use for the craftable instruments, it's also rumoured that the TS revamp will be hitting this LU eventually. Hmmmm. Maybe we'll get to see the EQ2 version of twisting?</P>

[Straygats]

Wow...just....wow.I'm gonna top off my last 36% of AA left and buy a nice country cottage in the steppes for a while I guess.  It's not so much one nerf, just the perceived hailstorm of them that this brokeback camel doesn't like all that much.  <span>:smileymad:Either way, I'm hoping those notes *are* amended as mentioned on test in a few days when all the folks get back from E3.</span><div></div>

[Lynadianya Zeran]

<P>I just spent almost 3 plat on the Master 1 of my level 50 charm.  Since the change to Aria, I have been having severe solo issues so I began charming sandcrawler magus and watching them nuke.  I still had problems with it and I rarely went after mobs that I couldn't take solo.  I used it to speed up my fighting rather than make me more powerful because if the charm broke, I was in big trouble.  And since the charm could break if the mob took damage, and it was not controllable (just reactionary) the charmed pet never tanked for me.  This means that I can't take triple up blues as I couldn't tank the damage I was taking.  Maybe because I am not in 100% legendary or fabled gear.  However, for the first time in 53 levels, I was able to take my first triple up green heroic with a pet to help me.  He was 10 levels below me and I almost died, but I did it.  Good lord, I must really need to be nerfed!</P> <P>I have finally begun to get my group mates to realize that I can mez adds.  They are finally getting to the point where they don't automatically turn to the add and try to pull agro to themselves or the pet (I group with a Pali and a Conji).  They let me lullabye the add.  It took me 50 levels to become more than a mana battery, and I was so happy that I had things I could do to help the group besides being a buff bot and turbo speed.  Well, I might be able to mez that add for the 20 seconds, but that means that all I'm allowed to do is watch the mezzed mob so that when it breaks I can re-mez them (if the recast is up).</P> <P>Why bother....</P> <P>I am looking at my alts.  If the changes go live, then I will shelve my favorite character.  There is no purpose for her anymore.  I am sure one of my many many alts will work well in our little group.  Just have to add 20 to 30 levels on them so that I can play with my friends again.</P> <P> </P>

[Dimgl]

<P><FONT color=#00cc99>I thought the Aria nerf alone was bad, but now with the CC gutted from Troubadour's I felt I had to come and give my support.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>I've static grouped with a Troub from 1-60 on a PVE server, and now 1-70 on a PVP server, that's 130 levels of grouping with a Troub basically.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>I've seen the ups and downs of the class,  I've seen wicked ability combos with other classes (PotM and Consecrate) and I've seen useless abilities (Requiem/HP Regen Song) but the Troubadour always had a few cards up their sleeve to help the group, especially in regards to CC.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>These recent changes though have been really disheartening. Maybe Troubadours in the raid scene are a different beast, letting others do more DPS than intended, but I can tell you that they were fine, if not -lacking- for solo/small group play. I could go on naming all of the problems I've seen, but I doubt that would help.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc99>I sincerely hope Troubadours are improved -significantly- and very soon. Good luck guys, I believe you deserve a tremendous boost to viability in solo and small group play.</FONT></P>

[Mulilla]

<P>I feel SO disappointed that i find it hard to express my feellings, but i will prolly quit also.  Who cares, SOE doesn't</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Yes, you can have my stuff, so sorry it is all notrade or attuned</P>

[Kilnger]

I'm not really sure what to say. I love the troubadour class, and I've a 60/60 troubadour weaponsmith (yea, go figure) and now on Venekor a 65/53 Troubadour weaponsmith and I'm all but stunned. I don't really know what to make of anything at this point, because I've been trying to figure out just what exactly we as a class have left. Aria? Nerfed. Jesters? Bugged. Massive utility? Situational. Lullaby? Pfft. As it stands, we really have power song, PotM, and a select few other songs, and that's that. I'm just honestly stunned and confused as to why SoE would do this. <div></div>

[missing_peace]

<DIV>Once again, I fail to see the logic in these changes.  Since the troubador class is half enchanter anyway, shouldn't the control options have been enhanced?  Troub mez should have been made effective on epic targets the same as enchanters and the charm ability should have been enhanced instead of nerfed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps the only way to turn this around would be the addition of instruments.  However, I do not have faith that they would be implemented in such a way as to actually enhance the class.  Unless instruments actually increased DPS, added back in all of the lost control abilities and enhanced general utility, then they won't mean a thing to this broken class.  Nor do I think that instruments are ready to be added into the game, so you can expect to exist in this pathetically weak form for at least a few months if not longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was actually starting to feel heroic again.  DPS was low, but with a combination of control spells, tactics and patience I could actually accomplish things.  I do not think that my current duo will be able to accomplish much at all with the loss of control spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless positive changes are made in conjunction with these negative changes, then I will simply find a new game.  I am not going to wait around for these issues to be ‘fixed’ months from now.<BR></DIV>

[Lynadianya Zeran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Straygatsby wrote:<BR>Wow...just....wow.<BR><BR><BR>I'm gonna top off my last 36% of AA left and buy a nice country cottage in the steppes for a while I guess.  It's not so much one nerf, just the perceived hailstorm of them that this brokeback camel doesn't like all that much.  <SPAN>:smileymad:<BR><BR><BR><BR>Either way, I'm hoping those notes *are* amended as mentioned on test in a few days when all the folks get back from E3.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's not just the notes, Straygatsby.  The high level troub on test has confirmed the fact that his t7 master charm went from about 7 minutes 30 seconds to 8 seconds.  It's already in on test.  Hopefully, when they get back from E3, they will fix the damage they have wrought, again, to the troubadour class.

[Mimsi]

<DIV>This all has to be some kind of cruel, belated April fool joke. What kind of half-witted developer mashes 3/4 of it's player base to sort out a raid roll for a single class? Absolutely surreal. Perhaps we'll wake soon; it's all a dream!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Agreed with Dimglow; there's never was an imbalance for the little troubs. I could do a decent ammount of damage 1 fight in 3, a little crowd control if required. Vaguely solo by boring anything challenging to death, contribute a little pow regen and a few half-ars*d buffs (ok my groups are mostly meleers).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The pessimistic might say that Sony 'inherited' Vanguard for a reason - now I can't even say 'I'll see you in vanguard', but I am slightly ahead of the game, I cancelled my account last live update such is the response, vision, input, and all round disregard for paying customers from SOE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Really is shocking to be treated like this. /sniff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take it easy fellow tunesters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mim</DIV>

[Coppun]

Wow  not sure what to do.  I loved my troub before combat changes hated him for about 10 lvl's then started getting into it agaqin now I am being [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] [Removed for Content] over and over and its back to either lvling my temp from 51 to 70 or going to my other acc and lvling my warden from 67 to 70 and dropping out of the scout classes completely.<div></div>

[Myk]

<P>Ouch.  I'm not the type to come to the boards to whine, complain, or claim that SOE is ruining my life.  I normally chuckle at those people.  But it's hard not to be disheartened about one's class after the most recent changes and the upcoming changes.  Here is why the changes make little sense:</P> <P>1)  Troubs are not over-powered, and the low percentage of people who play troubs largely proves this assertion.</P> <P>2)  Troubs do best in raids, very well in full groups, and below average when it comes to very small groups and soloing.  The abilities they nerfed have by far the biggest impact where we are weakest.  If we had nerfing coming our way, they did it bass ackwards.  Aria's was crucial when soloing.  This song is almost worthless while soloing now but the change makes little difference in certain groups.  Why change it?  Mezzing was oftentimes crucial in groups and when soloing and rarely used in raids.  Was there a way to use mez that was overpowered that I never discovered?  Charm had its uses even though it was risky to use and not very full-featured.  Why effectively kill an ability that was arguably already bugged and that was used only very situationally.  </P> <P>SOE may feel like they balanced troubs relative to other classes, but they seriously unbalanced a troub's ability to solo/duo/trio.  This is what I believe led to the changes we are seeing now.</P> <P>I may quit my troub.  I don't want to, and it's not a threat or ultimatum, but I will only play my class while it's fun and worthwhile to do so.  The recent changes are prompting me to rethink not only my class but the game itself.</P>

[Lazkr]

<div></div>*sigh* This is ridiculous.  I hope what I am hearing is true... As noted by Blackguard, LU24 notes WILL change when he gets back from E3. The notes were written up before he left for E3 on Monday, and the update went to test on Wednesday. BTW:  I think the DEVS are actually seeing this.  Keep up the good work.  <span class="postbody"> Anyone on Test Server verify whats happening with Troubs? I really don't think my wife is gonna give a rats [Removed for Content] if i get so fed up with EQ2 that I quit.   I think she would actually prefer me playing 2-3 rounds of golf a week, going out 2 nights a week with my buddies and visting the local exotic dancer establishment on occastion than the 30+ hours of EQ2 i that I am "wasting" playing EQ2. With all the free time I have when I quit EQ2, I might have to get a girlfriend, since my wife will be sick of seeing my face all the time. Lazician Clan of Shadows Faydark / Befallen</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:18 PM</span>

[Icecreamman]

Well I for one parked my troub after the last nerf, waiting to see if the Dev's gave a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to anything we posted... Not a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing from them.Now what the hell do I see ?  A second nerf !Why can't we get a response from a Dev on this ??  <div></div>

[Cragger]

<div><blockquote><hr>Lazkraf wrote:<div></div>*sigh* This is ridiculous.  I hope what I am hearing is true... As noted by Blackguard, LU24 notes WILL change when he gets back from E3. The notes were written up before he left for E3 on Monday, and the update went to test on Wednesday. BTW:  I think the DEVS are actually seeing this.  Keep up the good work.  <span class="postbody"> Anyone on Test Server verify whats happening with Troubs? I really don't think my wife is gonna give a rats [Removed for Content] if i get so fed up with EQ2 that I quit.   I think she would actually prefer me playing 2-3 rounds of golf a week, going out 2 nights a week with my buddies and visting the local exotic dancer establishment on occastion than the 30+ hours of EQ2 i that I am "wasting" playing EQ2. With all the free time I have when I quit EQ2, I might have to get a girlfriend, since my wife will be sick of seeing my face all the time. Lazician Clan of Shadows Faydark / Befallen</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">05-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The Original post is times taken from Master I abilities on test currently. This isn't just reaction to test notes.</div>

[schwantz007]

<DIV>I really enjoyed playing my Troub from launch until now. I even (although I hated it for the first month) came to love the role of the caster enhancer with a crowd control emphasis. However, my Troubador and main character who I have always played and has thus always  been my main will be collecting dust as I return to my Warden after this next update. I guess I still have a few more weeks of enjoyment till this goes live. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] does it not matter to those developers that I have played a utility class that will soon have no utility? Hmm at least I will soon be able to sympathise with with the complaints Enchanters have had over the last year. Maybe I will role an enchanter?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hellenna Hearthstryder, 63 Warden on AB,  formerly known as </DIV> <DIV>Aredisil Fayrunner, 70 Troubador on AB.....cry</DIV> <P>Message Edited by schwantz007 on <SPAN class=date_text>05-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:00 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by schwantz007 on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

[schwantz007]

Can we /respec to Dirge please?

[Killerbee3000]

<div><blockquote><hr>schwantz007 wrote:<div></div>Can we /respec to Dirge please?<hr></blockquote>i would prefer  /get money back and /get wasted time back</div>

[Belisarius]

I dont care to take the time to, but someone should make an educated post regarding troub problems and post it on the combat boards. Give it a flashy name or something.

[pikeymoose]

At this point, the fun factor of our class is near empty. Maybe a Dev should play the class for a painfull few months trying to get this now limp class to 70. That would be like torture.As it stands, Sony must have motive behind the madness. Be honest with yourselves Sony. If you want this class extinct...just do as sugested above and let us respec to a different class, and remove troubadors from the game. Enchanters and dirges can take up any slack we leave, maybe boost other classes with 1 tune each to make up for lost utility, and just do what you so baddly want to do.What is worse? If we wounded Troubadors waste 12 months on this class for nothing, hoping each update that we will become fun again....well not likely.Lets hear the truth, so we can get on with it. Either we leave the class borked and abandon them, or we fix it. If we were overpowered yet gimped to death as small group/solo, this means we are not a viable class. So just delete the whole mess from your game.It appears to fix the class is to break the game group/raid dynamics (no win situation).Just don't lie for 12 months and waste more of our freaking time.Moose<p>Message Edited by pikeymoose on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 PM</span>

[reaper_m]

<P>I'm dumbfounded. Speechless. Sigh.</P> <P>When I first got the game, I played a wizard for all the uber dps it provides. But then raiding came and I found out how craptastic the wizzie dps really is in raids. So I started a troubie because I got sick of parsing and the whole dps epenis comparisons. Also thought it would be the one class that would be safe from the nerf bat, seeing how unspectacular the troubie's dps is (ah, the irony). Fell in love with my troub straight away. It was a fun class to play, forcing me to be awake and aware of the situation around me. Changing songs and mezzing/charming as needed. I felt useful. Felt better than button mashing on my wizzie.</P> <P>And now this. <BR><BR>With all these changes, what's the point of having a troubie anyways? Chanters can do everything we can and better.</P> <P>Mana regen? Yeap, chanters too. </P> <P>CC? Chanters do it better.</P> <P>Spell procs? Chanters have that too.</P> <P>Alin's Serenade is about the only thing that makes us unique. But funny how that doesn't get used in groups or solo too often. And raids have survived without that song before and will again. As it will stand after the patch, we're the chanter's ugly cousin that no one wants to take to the prom.</P> <P>I love the utility of my troubie. That's the reason why I chose to play it instead of a dps class. Sure I grumbled a little when the proc changes went live but I didn't really care, dps isn't what I'm all about. But now, they're taking away my utility. If this goes live, there really isn't anything about a troubador that would be fun to play anymore. </P> <P>Don't really know what to do. I like EQ2, and I love my troubie. I don't want to quit, I really don't. But if the game stops being fun, then I might have to find my fun elsewhere.</P><p>Message Edited by reaper_man on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:04 PM</span>

[schwantz007]

<DIV>Yes it is all about the fun. Simply putting up Alin's during a raid and running to and frow and try as I might - no matter how much mashing of the hot keys - I fail to see any contribution on my part. When I saw the proc numbers brightly hi-lighted above the heads of the targeted mobs I felt pretty good. When in a group situation I saved my group from adds I again felt positive. Further, when I could charm a "Corpse Candle" in the Bonemire and and take down mobs at a rate I deemed reasonable, once again, I felt good about the Troubador. If Alin's is the only reason besides Brias' I am wanted by groups or raids then I'll throw in the towel. For Christ's sake, the warlock in my group still dies at an unacceptable rate. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if these changes go ahead - I have no doubt that will in fact go ahead - we will be left with three usefull abilities, alin's, brias', and to a lesser extend PotM, which at the rate things are going may be the subject of future "examinations." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really hate to post like this but....Troubs, like chanters before them, are going through quite a lot of 'balancing' with little rewards in  exchange.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hellenna Hearthstryder, 63 Warden on AB....also</DIV> <DIV>Aredisil Fayrunner, 70 Alin's Serene Serenade on AB.</DIV>

[schwantz007]

damnit you changed our class without any forewarning. Now you guys owe us at least some explanation about our direction, do you not? I am serious here this is account closing type decisions you are making at least for myself, I have had it with this these changes. the least you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s could do is respond sooth us etc.  Come on you owe us that much - those who have played the class for so long..........

[Blakeavon]

<div></div><div></div>Where do i start?with my anger for the devs?with the feeling i have wasted a 1.5 years?with my confusion of why?with the knowledge that no dev will visit these pages and hear our concerns?all these above thoughts arent anything new <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the worst part of all these changes recent NONE of them have been done as a direct responce to our class. From the mana drain removal, to nerfed proc'ed dps, to these recent mez/charm changes... NONE of these have come about because of our class it just happens that we are a jack-of-all-trades class which means everytime the devs seek that mystiscal prize of balance we are the ones who feel the changes.my question is plain simple WHY? who is this balance for on a normal server? the few who duel for fun? who else honestly sits around and goes "ooooh that evil troubs can mez really well?" the answer of course is fanboys and that is it. i mean on a normal server if i do some wiz-bang mezthingie in mid battle and save the group... i get a few mins being treated as a hero for saving the group!!!! So i come back to the question WHY Balance, who on a normal server is seeing balance? You have always said the the PvP server spells would have nothign to do with normal servers.... *cough, cough*the search for balance is just like the search for the Holy Grail. Those who spend their time looking for a mystical outcome that by definition cant be obtained. And in their search what they missed is everything they already have. Why search for class balance that can NEVER exist (as has never done in any game ever) its like asking for world peace... it would a lovely thing to happen... but simple and logically it cant be obtained. in their search DEVS are missing what they already have many many players who love playing this game, sure each class needs tweaks. take for example the pure our enchanters they have been pleading for changes for ages so instead of giving them love, they nerf everyone equally to "balance" all. Ask any enchanter very few of them wanted some loving BUT at the cost of other classes... once again i ask why? Honestly devs go read the tale of Percival and the Holy Grail... a poor old knight who wastes his life looking for the grail, only to find when he is face to face with it he doesnt recognize it. there is a reason these tales have lived on for a 1000 odd years because the themes are timeless.Oh who am i kidding the DEVS arent going to look here and feel our pain, look at the DEV tracker ... none of them for weeks have had respect for that fan base. At least in all fairness at this Staryeye dropped in and had a look .. prays that she might indirectly ask a dev to look over here and see our concerns. I just wonder why DEVS make changes like this? whats the use of changing our charm from 7mins odd to 8secs in the greater scheme? dont they want happy players? dont they want people to enjoy there time and more important wouldnt a greater idea is inspire connection between devs and players... I mean  without players the devs are basically kings of nothing. Why weild a baseball bat to class and when you can select members of each class to act as inspiration in a meeting room?once again why? is it just because they can? the said fact is yes, so basically yes and now they have cornered the MMO market by buying Vanguard (marketing etc) I mean how can they market both EQ2 and Vanguard fairly? grrr now im off track and even more upset, will write more later ... time to leave my troub for a week or so and go back to CIV4 <div></div><p>Message Edited by Blakeavon on <span class="date_text">05-12-2006</span> <span class="time_text">07:59 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Blakeavon on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:01 PM</span>

[Dukda]

Dear SOE,I rarely post about anything that happens to the troubadour. And i will not just quit that easy, I just worry about the FUN factor that is left when this nerf comes in! I think it will be totally down the drain. With this nerf i think i cannot do some quests! Some solo instances will just be IMPOSSIBLE to do.Please rethink your decisions. Cause I am REALLY NOT OVERPOWERED!Rosalee<div></div>

[Mishrac]

Well I think they are missing the main point of having a Bard in the group and that is that when you have a Bard in the group, the group becomes greate and it should be a major different. It should be a privilige to have a Bard... the bard should be the best buffers over them all. That is the classic way a bard works... but what the heck im just so dissapointed at the Devs atm and they cant know anything about roleplaying games, and what fun means... the trubadours are not playing to be the best class in the game we all just like the fun of doing everything.. mezzing, charming and buff the group to be greate and not to be the masters of the game.. so please stop picking on us.

[pist]

Man... I've been playing around on a little level 30 troub alt.  He's been fun, and while his dps isn't great, he brings the love to the casters even at that level.  Really though I couldn't wait until I got up into the 40s/50s and was able to have all my crowd control stuff so I could be more than an afk buffer to my group.  Looks like that is going down the drain, so maybe I'll roll an enchanter or something who at least has a shot of being the little engine that could.  =  Thanks sony, you've ruined my dreams of greatness. <div></div>

[Myrddhinn]

<P>Enough talk. I quit.</P> <P>My game is paid until june 30th. After this, ciao !</P> <P> </P> <P>Dystarin, the blonde dwarf</P> <P>TroubadO_or 70 / Carpenter 70</P> <P>(btw has anybody seen my T6 rare recipes ?)</P>

[J]

<P>Same... can't believe I waited 1.5 years for a response in the weaponsmith forums. I'm not going to wait that long here-- E3 or no E3.</P> <P>Just cancelled my two accounts.</P>

[Sir Blig]

<DIV>Part of my Guess on the Why is around a month or two before any new release they tone down classes so that the new products look all the better, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen it happen over the last year and a bit, the cycle is - tone down the awesome new release as the weeks go by, so everything that was great about it is toned right down because it was 'too powerful' and then on the approach to the next release it starts again toning it right down.. Then the release the next update and ooo is it not nice and all the new things etc </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its marketing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is a shame but I will be very surprised if most if not all of what was listed does not make it into the Live LU</DIV> <DIV>And yea it is a right shame we have to share the fate of so many classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But one has to wander what they have in-store for the next update, what could it be, could they be rolling out the long overdue Master III's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I have been unimpressed with SOE for awhile now and have not been playing much over the last few weeks; I think they are losing vision.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally will be delaying my purchase of the next adventure pack to see what they do and if I don't see a sign that they may be fixing things then I will be finding other things to spend my money on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: opps the crystal ball just told be I will be canceling my two acounts anyway, o well dont think i needed it to tell me since the writing was on the wall </DIV><p>Message Edited by Sir Blight on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:13 PM</span>

[Draks]

<P>Rolled a Mystic today.</P> <P> </P> <P>Double Parking my Troub.</P>

[Blakeavon]

<div>yeppers i couldnt have said it better myself<blockquote><hr><div> </div> <div>Personally I have been unimpressed with SOE for awhile now and have not been playing much over the last few weeks; <b>I think they are losing vision</b>.</div> <div> </div> <div>I </div><hr></blockquote></div>

[Noguks]

<P>I thought their vision was to buy up every mmo they could get thier hands on so there was limited competition.</P> <P> </P>

[Keyh]

I picture it like this:A schoolroom with a bunch of kids in it, all representing a certain class. A bunch of the kids are standing up and screaming that their class is nerfed. While in the back, the emo-esque Troubadour is sitting there quietly complaining about being misunderstood and that nobody likes him. The teacher (SOE) calls him to the front of the class and smacks him with the nerf bat. Everyone is like "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?".WTG, nerfing classes that are already unpopular. Honestly, it's not my main so I don't care AS much, also I usually DON'T complain about stuff like this, but pretty much everyone is like "[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?".

[Sir Blig]

<P>hehe nice way of putting it Keyh </P> <P> </P> <P>in that light, maby the used the bat so that more poeple would get to understad what it was we used to do.</P>

[nirm]

<P>Wow, I am utterly shocked.  Don't even know where to start with this.  I don't post a lot as you can see from my post count but I just had to lend my support to my fellow Troubador's and express my dissapointment at the propossed changes.  I've played a Troubador since beta, and played a bard in EQ1 into the 60's.  I can't even begin to understand there thinking when it comes to the changes they are planning on bringing to the live servers.  These changes are goign to make the class utterly useless.  What is the point of making the charm last only 8 seconds and give it such a high reuse timer?  It's going to make the ability useless to even have in the game.  And the changes to Mez is going to break the class.</P> <P>/very dissapointed Troubador.</P>

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>The strangest thing of all is that the proposed changes to charm are essentially what charm was pre LU13. No concentration makes sense, but we already established that this wasn't something that worked through many months of play. Then LU13 fixed it, and turned it into a decent solo spell. Not everyone likes it, but it still works a helluva lot better than pre LU13. Some swear by it.</P> <P>I get the impression that the design department of SOE is a bit like a husband and wife squabbling while trying to construct a flatpack cabinet from Ikea. After many hours of nasty comments, discarding instructions, retrieving instructions, swearing at instructions, blaming the Swedish for inventing Ikea in the first place, giving up and gluing it together, wondering why you have a large sheet of wood and two handles left over...after all this, you have a flimsy cabinet. Or is it? It looks more like a chest. Nobody is really sure what it is. Does it sit on the floor? Attach it to the wall? Careful, don't put that lamp on it, it'll.....oh no, the sides fell off!</P> <P>After a week, the 'thing' is placed in the garage and used to store bits and bobs. One day, you back your car into it and it crumples into nothing. </P> <P>As a troubadour, I think I've already been relegated to the garage. The question is, will the squabbling couple get their act together and give the cabinet a clear purpose, or will it be forgotten about altogether. :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by WorldsAway_Nybor on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Mishrac]

Well Said Nybor /agree

[MrCanoehead]

<P>This is a very sad day for me.  Seems they are trying to drive players off of Pve servers and onto Pvp.  These changes are obviously meant to rebalance those toons.</P> <P>I have been a happy paying customer for over a year now and have no interest in pvp.  When these changes go live there will be no fun in playing my toon anymore.  I'll log in to raids and watch tv just to keep our necros alive.</P> <P> </P>

[Belisarius]

<blockquote><hr>MrCanoehead wrote:<P>This is a very sad day for me.  Seems they are trying to drive players off of Pve servers and onto Pvp.  These changes are obviously meant to rebalance those toons.</P><P>I have been a happy paying customer for over a year now and have no interest in pvp.  When these changes go live there will be no fun in playing my toon anymore.  I'll log in to raids and watch tv just to keep our necros alive.</P><P> </P><hr></blockquote>Well said<p>Message Edited by Belisarius on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:29 PM</span>

[Keyh]

I've worked out my new LFG message:"Lvl xx Troubadour LFG Note: Will stay at keyboard to change buffs if needed"

[LordCalido]

<P>I would like to flame the hell out Sony for this lunacy but I won't waste my time. I've already wasted enough playing a troubador.</P>

[Kraks_Aforty]

Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason.<div></div>

[Kaelos_]

>Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason. yep. hate it.  I don't understand why they couldn't seperate the development of pve and pvp servers.  are there more subscribers on pvp servers over pve servers or something? <div></div>

[Tanla]

<P>I'm a little confused why people think these changes have anything to do with pvp. The changes to Aria were made for normalizing dps which could get out of control on raids, and as far as our control spells, they already functioned differently in pvp.</P> <P>All spells and combat arts have different values for pvp... these changes have nothing to do with pvp whatsoever outside of the recast timer change which seems to be shared.</P> <P>Don't get me wrong, I'm as unhappy with the changes as everyone else, but equating them with some sort of sony pvp conspiracy is ignorant.</P>

[Killerbee3000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaelos_CZ wrote:<BR>>Kinda sickening how they said PvP servers wouldn't affect playstyles on PvE and yet they have continuously made changes to the entire game just for that reason.<BR><BR>yep. hate it.  I don't understand why they couldn't seperate the development of pve and pvp servers.  are there more subscribers on pvp servers over pve servers or something?<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>look at it from the view of a company, its cheaper if you have only one development team for all rulesets.  otherwise they should think that lots of people will quit so in the end they will loose more money</P>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keyh wrote:<BR>I've worked out my new LFG message:<BR><BR>"Lvl xx Troubadour LFG Note: Will stay at keyboard to change buffs if needed"<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lvl xx Troub LFG. My couch isn't that far from my computer so I might come and see how we're doing.

[ForgottenFoundling]

<DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>"kill off a class for no good reason?"  "BRILLIANT!!!"</EM></DIV>

[Snublefot]

<P>So far; No comment on the proc change at all.</P> <P>And one comment on the control changes by a dev so totally on defensive it borders to arrogance. Come on Devs, tell me Troubadours are too powerfull and will be presicely where its intended once CC is nerfed useless!</P>

[Godzmodi]

they make me wanna quit this game more and more every LU.... dont you guys see what your doing sometimes soe... <div></div>

[Kraks_Aforty]

Brigand in my guild left the game for a while to take care of a parent.  He's given us his account to use until then.I think I'll go from the most nerfed and soon to be underpowered class in the game to playing the most overpowered and in need of a nerf class in the game.<div></div>

[Andric_D]

This is appalling but not that suprising - LU13 & the re-focusing of a Mellee class to be a half-[Removed for Content] caster/buffer was pretty much guaranteed to a bad Idea. I quit my troub and re-rolled at level 56 after playing from beta. The class is not what it was originally at all and just goes from bad to worse. It has changed teh most from live and has received the most nerfs with nothig to compensate for its growing lack of fun, dps or utility<div></div>You all have my sympathy and support but while I cant bring myself to delete my troub I also cant bear to log him in anymore.

[FlamencoKid]

<div></div><font color="#ccffcc">If you check my post count you'll deduce that it takes a lot for me to post on these forums after 1.5 years playing the game <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If these changes go through as they are then I will quit the game. </font><font color="#ccffcc"></font><font color="#ccffcc"></font><font color="#ccffcc">I love soloing with my troubadour as much as possible and following the nerf on procs I have a strong reliance on mezzing and (increasingly) charming. Mezzing and charming also provide a much needed fun element to combat - something magical and distinctive. Reducing the mezz time is a severe impairment to my ability to solo or to control crowds effectively during groups, and reducing the duration of a charm to just 8 seconds renders it useless.</font><font color="#ccffcc"></font><font color="#ccffcc"></font><font color="#ccffcc">I love my troubadour and have enjoyed EQ2 but am increasingly frustrated with how things are going. I can't face re-rolling and grinding up to 70 again - I don't have the time to do that anyway. SOE please take note of the frustrations voiced on this forum and re-consider these changes for troubadours. A lot of the people here are not simple SOE-haters that whinge all the time about you and play the game despite you; many like me love the game and love our troubs but are losing patience with changes primarily made to affect other classes but which have a disproportionately negative effect on our abilities.Leafkin 70 Troubadour / 69 Provisioner on Splitpaw</font><div></div><p>Message Edited by FlamencoKid on <span class=date_text>05-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:29 AM</span>

[Zeral498]

So, I've been playing my Troubador on Test (LVL 69) and this is what I use charm and mez for right now. Mez: If we get an add, I'll mez it, and usually we can kill our previous target within 20 seconds. That actually works pretty well, so mez still has its uses, but its uses are very limited compared to before. In the case of over-pulling... we used to be able to pull off miracles and save a group from wiping. Now I just toss a mez on one of the mobs and hope that the tank can take a real good beating from the rest of angry mobs. Charm: This is what I'd like to call my, "Oh crap! Here comes another add that is beating on our mage/healer. Crap! My mez is on the horribly long 20 second recast timer from the add we got before this one. CHARM!" 8-seconds go by, charm breaks, and the no-longer-charmed add starts to beat the snot out of me, which is good, because the healer/mage gets to live. I'm -useless- compared to them now. Yes, I use charm to make myself into cannon fodder. Instant aggro swap from healer/mage to me. They get to live and I get to take a nice long beating or die. Now, I could simply steal aggro from the healer/cleric with auto-attack or a simple CA, but might as well use that 8 second extra DPS the mob can dish out... *cough*. And keep myself alive 8 seconds longer.... *cough.* But my group is fairly alert so I don't die all that often using the cannon fodder technique. Bottom line though, our crowd control ability is PATHETIC compared to what we were capable of doing before. <div></div>

[schwantz007]

<P>That's sad to hear Zeral. I found the crowd control abilities the most fun part of playing the post LU 13 Troub. </P> <P>Aredisil, 70 Alin's Serene Serenade caster on AB.</P>

[vinterskugge]

Right now on live, I can use Reverie in raid encounters to keep all the adds mezzed.  (Princes and Hurricanus are two examples).  I like it because it's a lot of hard work to do and you can't really do anything else, but in the absence of an enchanter it's possible.  And now I won't even be able to keep one of them mezzed.  /sigh

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kraks_Aforty wrote:<BR>Brigand in my guild left the game for a while to take care of a parent.  He's given us his account to use until then.<BR><BR>I think I'll go from the most nerfed and soon to be underpowered class in the game to playing the most overpowered and in need of a nerf class in the game.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Calling for nerfs only takes away any sympathy that that class might have had for you. Please don't.

[Kraks_Aforty]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Kraks_Aforty wrote:Brigand in my guild left the game for a while to take care of a parent.  He's given us his account to use until then.I think I'll go from the most nerfed and soon to be underpowered class in the game to playing the most overpowered and in need of a nerf class in the game. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Calling for nerfs only takes away any sympathy that that class might have had for you. Please don't.<hr></blockquote>Go cry elsewhere.  Brigands have been screaming for nerfs since LU13.  Amazing Reflexes should never have been placed in game, and the fact that 1 class has more mitigation debuffs than any 2 other classes combined is just a bit unbalancing.</div>

[Blakeavon]

Calling for other class to be nerfed is beyond words... who cares if another class can do something or do more dps whatnot than ours? calling others to be nerfed when we are hurting is like being held at gunpoint with your best friend and saying to the gunman take him not me... LOL its just plain wrong for so many reasonsWe as a class are not going to get any respect from others in supporting our cause if we behave like that<div></div>

[Devira]

<DIV>just to add, here's another troub who'll stop playing if or when this goes live. charm and mez are the only two things that allow me to solo a semi-tough mob or group of mobs. they also make me feel i'm making a worthwhile contribution to keeping a group alive. Buffs are nice, but no way i want to play a class just for buffs alone. The buffs are just not THAT good anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>nice one Sony, over a year of play just for this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Devira, lvl 62 troub</DIV>

[Ballads]

My suggestion to this is send PM's to lockeye. Ask,beg,demand,cry,scream,plead to have are class not nerfed to point of unplayable !! To arms my fellow troubs do not go quitely into that dark night !! We must fight and fight hard !! We are second only to chanters in control abilitys so this changes affects us alot . Chanters are the other support class you simply cannot change the one support class with out changing the other !!  So i say PM ever dev you can. Post on every board. Do any and every thing you possablly can do to stop this travisty. We have been quitely taking these nerfs one after another since LU13 . Enough is enough !! Dont even bother to post on these boards. They dont look here goto all the boards and post.  Turn the low maoning on this forum into a roaring cry they can not ignore no matter how hard they try throw parses, facts, figures charts anything you got at them to make them see are side. Dont give up till your figures bleed and your eyes cannot stare at your monitor anymore!!Ballads 70 troubador NPU-Guk<div></div>

[britn]

I quit my Troub for a year after LU13.  We went from a GREAT support class to just crap overnight.  I came back for KoS and found out that we were now a good and perhaps a bit more versatile class... although still far from the strength of the pre-LU13 days.  The proposed LU24 changes probably mean a permanent retirement for me.   <div></div>

[Zeral498]

<blockquote><hr>pickle27 wrote:My suggestion to this is send PM's to lockeye. Ask,beg,demand,cry,scream,plead to have are class not nerfed to point of unplayable !! To arms my fellow troubs do not go quitely into that dark night !! We must fight and fight hard !! We are second only to chanters in control abilitys so this changes affects us alot . Chanters are the other support class you simply cannot change the one support class with out changing the other !!  So i say PM ever dev you can. Post on every board. Do any and every thing you possablly can do to stop this travisty. We have been quitely taking these nerfs one after another since LU13 . Enough is enough !! Dont even bother to post on these boards. They dont look here goto all the boards and post.  Turn the low maoning on this forum into a roaring cry they can not ignore no matter how hard they try throw parses, facts, figures charts anything you got at them to make them see are side. Dont give up till your figures bleed and your eyes cannot stare at your monitor anymore!!Ballads 70 troubador NPU-Guk<div></div><hr></blockquote>I actually sent a PM to Lockeye already, although I'm sure he'll only glance at it and not take my words into consideration. <span>:smileysad:</span> <div></div>

[Sile]

I heard from a guildie that debuffs now break mez on test.  Anyone know if there's truth to this? <div></div>

[Nevari]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sileas wrote:I heard from a guildie that debuffs now break mez on test.  Anyone know if there's truth to this? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Omgooses, let it be a bad joke of a rumor please <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This is in regards of a chanter mezzing, bard debuffs and breaks the mezz? I don't even think about our own mezz anymore here. Just the possible raid impact.</div>

[SureShot]

<P>I have been playing my troub faithfully since release.  My highest alt is in the mid to upper 20s.  I have ridden this roller coaster that has been the troubador through updates that included a complete redesign of the class, "fixes" to procs which gutted our dps, and now, more "fixes" that gut our class-defining ability to do crowd-control when needed.  </P> <P>Basically, every reason I had to choose the troubador when I started has been shot to hell up to this point.  So I ask you, why should I (we) bother any more??  Enough is enough...at this point, I guess I should consider myself beaten like a dead horse.  I can't take it any more.  This is the final straw.  </P> <P>You know, just SOME kind of response from a developer would do a lot to ease our fears.  Why are they mute up to this point on the state of the troubador?</P><p>Message Edited by SureShot on <span class=date_text>05-14-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:38 AM</span>

[Icecreamman]

Today I parked my troubador, lvl 60.  I never was a power player, I played for the fun of the game and to use all my ablities to the fullest.  Now with the changes in LU#23 I found that grouping and solo'n wasn't as much fun, and with the next LU#24 coming out I can say that I give up.Can believe that the Dev's won't comment on anything, LU23 or LU24.  Not even to say tough [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].I went and rerolled and SK today, changed my main troubador in the guild to retired.  I will not play a class that is nothing like I rolled at the start of eq2.   NOTHING is the same since start up and we have the Dev's to thank for it.Maybe we should ask for a meeting of the Toubadors in game to discuss the problems with the class ?  Pick a server and a date/time and see what kind of turn out and idea's we can come up with, then take them to the devs.<blockquote><hr></blockquote><div></div>

[Killerbee3000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Icecreamman wrote:<BR>Today I parked my troubador, lvl 60.  I never was a power player, I played for the fun of the game and to use all my ablities to the fullest.  Now with the changes in LU#23 I found that grouping and solo'n wasn't as much fun, and with the next LU#24 coming out I can say that I give up.<BR><BR>Can believe that the Dev's won't comment on anything, LU23 or LU24.  Not even to say tough [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].<BR><BR>I went and rerolled and SK today, changed my main troubador in the guild to retired.  <BR><BR>I will not play a class that is nothing like I rolled at the start of eq2.   NOTHING is the same since start up and we have the Dev's to thank for it.<BR><BR>Maybe we should ask for a meeting of the Toubadors in game to discuss the problems with the class ?  Pick a server and a date/time and see what kind of turn out and idea's we can come up with, then take them to the devs.<BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>a meeting of troubadours? there are still some left?

[Jaimster]

<P>Wow, I've seen the devs respond to a number of recent posts. But nothing for us troubs. I had felt most of us were being respectful... I think we're all too depressed to be horribly rude.</P> <P>Could we please get an official response to our (mostly) civilized questions/concerns/complaints?</P> <P>Thank you.</P>

[Cuz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaimster wrote:<BR> <P>Wow, I've seen the devs respond to a number of recent posts. But nothing for us troubs. I had felt most of us were being respectful... I think we're all too depressed to be horribly rude.</P> <P>Could we please get an official response to our (mostly) civilized questions/concerns/complaints?</P> <P>Thank you.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You want to further your good mood, compare the amount of Dev posts in Bruiser forums vs troub forums.

[Belisarius]

<DIV>Really, ive noticed that for a LONG time, the devs really favor bruisers on replying.....</DIV>

[Snublefot]

<P>Nobody likes spell changes that are seen as nerfs. But Instill Doubt is an extremely situational ability anyway, and this change will only have any real effect in some corner cases. Signed Moorgard</P> <P>.....</P> <P>Now that was about one spell for bruisers. I guess the entire Troubadour class is considered a "Corner case". And in the same post this Lockeye is said to have delivered a report on all classes cc abilities. I wonder how he came up with the changes to our CC? Ganked on pvp the same day maybe? The changes is so far from rational its bordering to insane. A real corner case.</P> <P>I just cant see how the changes can be justified. So I guess they'll just keep ignoring us and push them to live anyway. Maybe we get a boost when they implement the next CU sometime in 2007. Or just do it the swg way and delete the class. So no, I'm not a happy camper here.</P>

[Andric_D]

<div>I have never seen a dev response to a troubadour balance problem. One lu13/dof beta despite 100's of posts regarding the changes and how crap it was for troubs - except 2 or 3 guys whom have n't posted since after it went live- the ONLY dev response on the troubadour thread was in response to  DIRGE questionThat is totally par fo rthe course on Troubadour issues & another big reason I parked mine. There never was and never has been any discussion by the devs with the troubadour community at all that I have found and absolutly no response to the troubadour concerns.<blockquote><hr>Jaimster wrote:<div></div> <p>Wow, I've seen the devs respond to a number of recent posts. But nothing for us troubs. I had felt most of us were being respectful... I think we're all too depressed to be horribly rude.</p> <p>Could we please get an official response to our (mostly) civilized questions/concerns/complaints?</p> <p>Thank you.</p><hr></blockquote></div>

[Tri]

<DIV>We were second hand crowd control, second hand dps and even second hand buffers in the end, as only a few of them are class defining / unique. ( hate reducer / mana / running )</DIV> <DIV>The class will still be appreciated in groups, being a mana battery and a replacement for horses in dungeons but there will be nothing left to do.</DIV> <DIV>One of our special songs is allready useless, requiem of reflection</DIV> <DIV>now they are making our mezz useless, how can 20 sec duration 20 sec recast mezz be called crowd control??</DIV> <DIV>How many times does someone break the mez? That is why chanters use several mezes not on the same reuse timers.</DIV> <DIV>To mez now will force us to take aggro on add, snare it, pull it away, then mezz it; and even then im sure someone may break it.</DIV> <DIV>Then cry T_T, oh and look a group encounter -> T_T oh look another mob -> T_T</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They are nerfing the CC abilities of every non chanter class, but we were supposed to be half chanters, that was our special trait, that was why we were chosen over another scout in some dungeons, that was the reason i chose to be a trouby!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know i'm not saying anything new, but i just needed to whine given the huge finger that i see when looking at the next LU content.</DIV> <DIV>My main is my only true avatar, i can't spend too much time on the game as i'm allready playing more than i should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>luckily i just hit 70, will be mainly logging for raiding and questing now but this update is a serious threat to the fun of being a trouby</DIV> <DIV>and i see few reasons to not take a dirge over a troub now... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please do not nerf the dirges they are fine as they are and may even need to be looked at, just like troubs need it, but seems we were overlooked at</DIV> <DIV>my 2 copper</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>_________________________</DIV> <DIV>Teldea 70 trouby Permafrost</DIV> <DIV>too sexy for a sig</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Emerix]

<DIV>- Dirge: Sapping Shot: Recast time increased to 25s. Power drain changed to Root.<BR>- Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds.<BR>- Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Way to go . balance the bards . I mean ... root surely isnt worth more then increased damage ((prolly 5 % heh ))</DIV> <DIV>Dirges get rid of useless power draind and get a root . and we get *censored* . Well done SOE .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Keyh]

<div><blockquote><hr>Emerix wrote:<div>- Dirge: Sapping Shot: Recast time increased to 25s. Power drain changed to Root.- Troubador: Singing Shot: Stifle duration set to 6 seconds.- Troubador: Swindle Essence: Damage increased.</div> <div> </div> <div>Way to go . balance the bards . I mean ... root surely isnt worth more then increased damage ((prolly 5 % heh ))</div> <div>Dirges get rid of useless power draind and get a root . and we get *censored* . Well done SOE .</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Honestly, that right there leads me to believe that they're trying to make everyone a dirge, rename it "Bard" and get rid of Troubadours.</div>

[Emerix]

THat was about exactly what i been thinkin Keyk