Aria, PoM, and the raiding Troub

[SureShot]

<DIV>Greetings all, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are your thoughts on using these songs since LU 23?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After two nights of raiding, I think I am ready to give up on Aria, which I have the master 2 version.  I put up haste last night in its place for the brigand and ranger in my group.  It just doesn't seem to proc enough now to warrant a concentration slot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PoM:  seems useless as well.  I normally kick it off on named mobs, when they're pretty low on hp to burn em down at the end.  But one or two procs per group member doesn't seem worth it.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What, if anything, have you other raiding troubs noticed about the use of these songs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[plutek]

Maestro has 100% chance to proc, why is that useless? Just curious, heh. I didn't realize there were so many 10 second cast timers out there? Anyone casting in your group should be able to get more than two spells off in 20 seconds, really. Unless they don't know it's up and they're not trying to utilize it. I usually give my raid group a warning so they mages can throw all their short casting DoTs, debuffs, etc on it. They can get at least five or six procs off, usually.<p> Although, I was in an instance/xp/whatever group for about four hours yesterday and I kept Aria up just to see how it was. I didn't proc once the whole night, the wizard was hardly procing. Not very exciting, I agree.

[SureShot]

I didn't notice PoM procing 100% of the time.  I thought this proc was included in the minimum +2.5 sec cast time proc nerf.  I'll look closer this weekend, but I don't recall seeing it proc off every cast.

[Crombie]

<DIV>Arias use to be up on any group formation I was in and gave me something to work with to try and do more damage.  Now it has such little effect, Proced a total of 24 times an entire raid in Halls of Seeing for me, that its not even worth it.  So now all the button mashing I do for possibly a bit more damage is in vain... so I sit there with auto attack... heh at one point I think I fell asleep during an encounter ~ its greatly effected my previously active play style of my troub... and ... well all I can say is that it sucks!! (lol being that I completely focused around doing dmg with int based gear and etc)</DIV>

[Snublefot]

Sorry, but I'll be shouted at if I dont have Aria up on raids :p

[Rampagious]

Well, pre-proc nerf, I was able to get around 800ish average on almost every single named single target fight, well over 1k AE.  With the changes, Im still doing easily over 1k AE fights, but only around 700ish on single target.  Really, these changed haven't hurt me that much, BUT they are definately noticable.  I've heard of people losing like 400 dps from just these changes...dunno how the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but meh :l<div></div>

[ravenscale]

i feel for you guys welcome back to the dps lvl of your fellow bards after the mele proc nerf on cacophony of blades 8( sorry to see this happen to you guys to

[911GT3]

<blockquote><hr>Rampagious wrote:Well, pre-proc nerf, I was able to get around 800ish average on almost every single named single target fight, well over 1k AE.  With the changes, Im still doing easily over 1k AE fights, but only around 700ish on single target.  Really, these changed haven't hurt me that much, BUT they are definately noticable.  I've heard of people losing like 400 dps from just these changes...dunno how the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but meh :l<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your doing 800-1000dps?? How?<div></div>

[Trabbart]

<DIV>:smileysad::smileysad:Ravenscale i HOPE to EVER see the day that i am at the dps of my fellow bards. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Truth is in every group i have been with with my guild dirge HE out dps-ed me by a very large amount. This is PRE LU23. </DIV> <DIV>In that group all buffs effected us equally and he out dps-ed me substantially. In raid set ups (diff groups) he also ALLWAYS out dps-es me.</DIV> <DIV>Same mix of fableds and masters , so no discrepancies there. And i have been playing a troub since launch and do know how to play him. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dirges have imho been treated much better. After LU 13 you moved up in the world and have been treated as a scout with abilities that have synergies. </DIV> <DIV>Some essential songs and skills that are very much wanted. You are NEEDED in the MT group. We were ditched.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We sank to the bottom with a new imposed role, for which we got tools that  are non-synergetic to our archetype.  Almost every scout  item out there is non-synergetic to our class. Many very good quest awards that might have served our new role are mage only or non-scout. And SOE is digging new bottoms cos the tools we have got have ALL been degraded for the "greater" good.</DIV> <DIV>If you had played a troubador since launch you'd realize that for us every LU has been decay. I dont think there is a class that has seen this many "nerfs" and not one thing to compensate. Maybe dirges get hit every now and then too, but you're not in our league.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In general i feel that Bards are only seen as a balancing tool for all others. Sadly balancing seems to only take one direction. The nerf direction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every LU i gather hope, and every LU my rat tail ends up between my legs. It kinda wears you down.:smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Trabbart on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:36 AM</span>

[Rampagious]

<div><blockquote><hr>911GT3 wrote:<blockquote><hr>Rampagious wrote:Well, pre-proc nerf, I was able to get around 800ish average on almost every single named single target fight, well over 1k AE.  With the changes, Im still doing easily over 1k AE fights, but only around 700ish on single target.  Really, these changed haven't hurt me that much, BUT they are definately noticable.  I've heard of people losing like 400 dps from just these changes...dunno how the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but meh :l<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your doing 800-1000dps?? How?<div></div><hr></blockquote>I said WAS doing 800ish on single targets pre-proc nerf.  Now post-proc nerf Im only doing 700ish+, it is definately possible, just have to find out what spells to cast when and which not to use (since I dont have bump I never use Clara's).  Also, I go double attack line, its nasty as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with the Claymore reward - Ive had that thing crit proc for 2.4k on raids.</div>

[Sile]

Aria's really depends on what kind of group you're in, it was nice, but not amazing.   Ofcourse, now it's....<div></div>

[Crombie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> 911GT3 wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR>Well, pre-proc nerf, I was able to get around 800ish average on almost every single named single target fight, well over 1k AE.  With the changes, Im still doing easily over 1k AE fights, but only around 700ish on single target.  Really, these changed haven't hurt me that much, BUT they are definately noticable.  I've heard of people losing like 400 dps from just these changes...dunno how the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] but meh :l<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Your doing 800-1000dps?? How?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I said WAS doing 800ish on single targets pre-proc nerf.  Now post-proc nerf Im only doing 700ish+, it is definately possible, just have to find out what spells to cast when and which not to use (since I dont have bump I never use Clara's).  Also, I go double attack line, its nasty as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with the Claymore reward - Ive had that thing crit proc for 2.4k on raids.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I too have the STA line ~ qeynos claymore reward ... the dps your talking about, is it in a group? certain group setup your always in?  Do you let auto attack do most of your dmg?  I must be missing something because I cant get 700+ ... of course I dont have much Nightcord/chain relic since it doesnt drop for my guild...yet I have most of my master spells... but shouldnt make <EM>that</EM> much of a difference... Just curious<p>Message Edited by Crombie on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:35 PM</span>

[Rampagious]

Always in group, always same group - Assassin/troubador/wizard/conjuror/inq/ranger - I get the inq proc, conj proc, wizard proc, and assassin apply poison...I hit spells every time they are up but with the increased chance to proc with a 1 hander - the procs still go off like mad - and on ranged fights (only using auto attack and shrill/guviena's) Im getting like 550+ easily.<div></div>

[Crombie]

Ahh that would explain it for the most part~ on raids I generally dont have that many procing classes (never an inquistor) grouped with me.  Thanks for the info

[Rampagious]

Yup, np <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[VericSauvari]

<P> </P><p>Message Edited by VericSauvari on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:56 PM</span>

[Godzmodi]

many wizards and warlocks tell me they proc MORE with this update. so aria is good for raids. <div></div>

[Dizank]

<DIV>They need to adjust the spell text on Aria's as it still reads 30% chance for any spell which as we now know is waayyy off the mark. Also I think they should allow a respec as I would not take this as my master 2 choice again.</DIV>

[Rampagious]

I dont believe 30% is off the mark.  I understand that we got hit hard with this - but other classess didnt get hit nearly as hard.  It seems like a huge nerf because all of our spells have very fast cast spells, and as the patch notes basically spelled out, the longer the cast - the better chance to proc.  I have had some of the same responses that Godzmodiar has, some of my wizards/locks are saying that they are actaully procing more.  What I do believe they should adjust, is the proc rate for faster casting spells, as it is WAY out of whack.  I get VERY minimal procs per fight and seeing as my buff is still 30%, that just can not be as intended.<div></div>

[Cygnu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rampagious wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>I said WAS doing 800ish on single targets pre-proc nerf.  Now post-proc nerf Im only doing 700ish+, it is definately possible, just have to find out what spells to cast when and which not to use (since I dont have bump I never use Clara's).  Also, I go double attack line, its nasty as [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with the Claymore reward - Ive had that thing crit proc for 2.4k on raids.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Is using a one handed weapon, with the Fortissimo AA ability maxed, out still a better option than dual wield? And would you still suggest this as the best AA line to increase our personal DPS (if we have a decent 1h weapon)?</P> <P>The reason I ask is because the double attack AA abilties were originally widely used because they dramatically increased a players DPS due to the extra attack meaning another chance at procs firing. As far as I am aware now, with the recent changes, melee procs do not work of each attack anymore and things that effect haste, number of attacks, weapon speed etc have no effect on how often a proc fires.</P> <P>I used to use the STA line while exp'ing to lvl 70 as the added defence/shield etc was good when soloing, but since hitting 70 and i am spending most of my time raiding, I dropped the line. The other reason I dropped the line was because unless you have the claymore weapon, or something similar, it's very difficult to find a really good 1-hander for a scout, whilst finding decent dw weapons is easy.</P> <P>So if anyone good suggest a decent 1h weapon as well, that would be cool.</P> <P>Also Rampagious, it would be interesting to know what sort of DPS value you get when solo'ing even con solo mobs. I do wonder how much of your 700+ DPS is from being in that group.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by CygnusX on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:16 AM</span>

[Sanju]

<div><blockquote><hr>CygnusX wrote:<p>Also Rampagious, it would be interesting to know what sort of DPS value you get when solo'ing even con solo mobs. I do wonder how much of your 700+ DPS is from being in that group.</p><hr></blockquote>Well, I don't have the STA line, but I seem to be better at dps than some of the Troubs that post here.I don't solo, but I arrived late to a raid one day (Lyceum, I believe), and was in a group by myself for the first fight. I still managed to outdps the other bards in raid by a considerable margin. So even with no outside buffs/procs, it's possible to get good dps as a Troub.This may have been before the proc change, but it hasn't affected me too much anyway.</div>