Spell Proc changes ~ and You

[Crombie]

<DIV>So the spell proc changes have finally gone in and was curious for some other fellow troubadors input. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> While our spell procs were  a large portion of our dps, I personally feel it was a drastic blow to my play style.  While a dirge has melee procs that can go off of auto attack, ours were based off of our spells / debuffs and etc which required a large amount of button mashing.  With the proc change I seem to rarely proc arias while going through my setup ~ of course I plan on doing a number of parses in groups / raids / solo / etc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've also got the Stamina line achievements with the double attacks ~ which were also changed in this LU to basically be a proc to do more dmg based off your weapon.  Kind of a double slap in the face on my part :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone else have input? Ideas for alternatives? etc etc Feel free to post </DIV><p>Message Edited by Crombie on <span class=date_text>05-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:25 PM</span>

[Straygats]

<div></div>I gotta be honest, I haven't noticed after running aria's all day in various groups.Now, that said, I haven't tested in a heavy mage group (and more specifically in a mage loaded group in a raid).  So I hope to try that tonight...you know, if the servers come back up. =0Edit:  I should also mention that I don't parse.  I find it vile.  This probably invalidates my opinion, but as an everyday group member, I didn't really freak out.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Straygatsby on <span class=date_text>05-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:44 PM</span>

[Dystopya]

repost of a post i wrote in the spells abilities etc forums:<i> Numbers be damned.I just parsed out at 280 dps on the pedestal of sky enounter before the servers went down. I am a troubador.  I dont have an accurate comparison dps from another ped raid, but i typically top out at around 650 dps and do that consistantly.It gets better!2% of my dps was from aria of acclaimation. (this buff is now worthless to me, solo, yet to be determined if its any better in a group setting - was in a 2nd tank group for this fight)110 of my dps... WAS FROM AUTOATTACK BOW DAMAGE.... the rest from combat abilities.......So i have to click my heart out to eek out 170 more dps.... no thanks, id rather go afk, let people suck up my buffs, and turn on ranged autoattack. I have a sneaking suspicion that if i werent wasting time casting, my autoattack bow damage would make up that 170 dps.Sounds like a fun class to play to me.</i><div></div>

[Trabbart]

<P>The weird thing is i have become so numb from them repeatingly bashing me that i cant care. One of my major concerns is that they will run out of things to take away by LU27 this way. </P> <P>What do you think will be LU 24's contribution? I think it might be the class hat because the yellow is too bright..</P> <P>To be honest they did introduce something really good for us troubs a lil while back. <STRONG>Alcohol</STRONG>. My lil troub is now stammering unseemly poetry in a continuous drunk stuper on East Freeport Docks. Come and say hi. But beware cos he has become bitter and mean and may bite your hand off. </P> <P>I hope they will introduce shopping carts  and cartboard boxes as housing next so the troub can grow into its new role even more.  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Ikikik</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Vandileir]

<DIV>I geared and tuned my troub heavily twoards the casters side. I felt this nerf HARD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My solo DPS is deystroyed compared to what it was before, and my burst DPS has been reduced by about 20% in groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After an entire night of playing, I saw just 3 procs from arias off my dps, none off the insta cast interupt, and 1-2 off my fast casts. the 3 big nukes proc at about the same rate as they did before.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I would rather run the haste song over arias now as the dps output would probably be about the same. Sad considering arias is master II and the haste song is adept I.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time to ditch my INT gear and wear str/agi gear and haste gear like every other scout in eq2. no one likes to be unique anyway. thanks sony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The toon is still playable, just less enjoyable and more of a time sink when I'm soloing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd use the charm dps method if the charm didnt randomly break at least twice a fight at Adept III. meh.</DIV>

[Swisher Repo]

I have my toon build as a caster, with Master II Aria's...I don't know what to say really...maybe this: I don't like this last patches changes! ...and I really want to flame SoE, right now. <div></div>

[Belisarius]

OMG, you were right! I just saw test server update notes and our class hat was taken away. Sony said that the color was to bright and distracted other players that had something to do in a group. Instead of changing the color they just decided to remove it because the coding isnt worth their time. <div></div>

[Greatscate]

The only saving grace for me in this patch is that I have been told by 2 wizards in my guild who jerk off to parsing that they have actually INCREASED their proc dps on most raids.  Now given this change went in yesterday and we got like 4 hours worth of testing in on it, this could and most likely is a fluke.  I guess however, if you consider that with our Aria line a spell with a 2.5 sec casting time is still 30% and most decent sorcerer spells are 2sec + they could be right though.  Regardless, I dont solo much, never been a big fan of it, however, I did a little testing last night and noticed my Aria proc (no lie) 7 times over a 2 hours period...mostly with Eli's.  It was not uncommon for us to proc 7 times in one fight before.  If Sony thinks that this isnt a problem I would hate to say it but this may be the last straw for me in this game.  Let me just say this: With LU13 we as Troubs were forced (not asked) to take the role of a DPS Buff Bot which I'm willing to bet was not the intention of any of us who chose a Troub from day 1.  However, those of us who stuck through all these changes probably have done so because we have grown to love our characters more than re-rolling another char <i>(as it is easy for others to just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan about us doing that since they continuously get better with most of these Live Updates).</i>  Since, LU13 I have learned to play my class in a different enviroment and sucked up the fact that I would no longer be in the MT group anymore, for the rest of my existence in EQ2.  I have even sat back while stuff has gotten taken away from us with no compensation whatsoever.  This however, is the the straw that broke the camels back...How can Sony POSSIBLY believe that this class is enjoyable to play anymore?  What do we do on raids now; put up mana song, put up deaggro, put on ranged attack, put in debuffs,  jester's, jester's , jester's, jester's, precision, jester's, jester's....4-5 hours later...phew that was fun.  Im sorry but I would rather put my [Removed for Content] character on auto-follow and go out and play some basketball if that will be the mold for my character the next few months.  With that being said, I would also like to point out that I in no way, shape, or form intend to do 1k+ dps...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], I never intended to do 800 dps when I chose a Troub, so for those of you out there who say "if your casters are benefited stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing cause Troubs arent dps" I say this to you...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] You.  We were SO PERFECTLY BALANCED before these changes it wasnt even funny.  My dps would sit at around 600-700 dps (Teir 3 as we should be) and I actually felt I was used beyond my range of jester's / precision / and mana regen during raids.  My 600-700 dps could be the difference between a win and a lose which is still true about 200 dps but come on now...we scouts (technically), were not healing, so why are we in the same tiered dps as them...WHILE THEYRE HEALING!?  Again, I never intend to be super dps, but having at least some would be somewhat enjoyable, dont ya think?  I hate to say it but I really do believe this most recent LU copuld possibly be the deathblow to all Troubs in game...as if there wasnt too few of us to begin with.  Anyways, thats my flame, been thinking about it since the changes yesterday and just needed to vent.  As always, there will be some of you out there woul dont agree and feel the need to respons with some stupid answer to this, again...have away...your opinion is no more valued and appreciated than mine.Ranzal - 70 Kerra TroubadorOasis Server<div></div>

[Kaelos_]

is that right?  wizzies proc aria more now?  so we add more to the dps of wizzies, but our personal dps has gone down?  so now i guess we have to get the devs to look at raising our ca damage or something.   knowing soe.. we might (big MIGHT) get fixed at the next expansion, which will probably be about the same time Vanguard comes out.  hmmm.  buy xpack or try out Vanguard..  gdmit soe. i hate you. <div></div>

[Snublefot]

<DIV>Havent noticed any drop in dps. Still some fights where 10-15% come from dissonant, but a bit more that dont proc at all. Still a buff I like to have up when soloing for speed. I never used debuffs to proc prior to change tough, might be why. I also seldom use Maestro in solo play as it usually lower my dps. Even when chaining debuffs. I usually pull with the aoe spell, followed by the dot and then a HO with CA/Shrill/essence/noble, followed by a stun and a backstab and a Drumming while mob is stunned. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Didnt see any real increase from mage damage today, but it was the new zone so I'll get a bit more feel for how it changes mage damage when we do one of the older raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the way spells got upgraded in KoS, I currently think my current potential for dps lies in increasing my strenght. Int is still nice to have high, but a more balance build might be good for solo play.</DIV>

[Nevari]

<div><blockquote><hr>Greatscate wrote:The only saving grace for me in this patch is that I have been told by 2 wizards in my guild who jerk off to parsing that they have actually INCREASED their proc dps on most raids.  Now given this change went in yesterday and we got like 4 hours worth of testing in on it, this could and most likely is a fluke.  I guess however, if you consider that with our Aria line a spell with a 2.5 sec casting time is still 30% and most decent sorcerer spells are 2sec + they could be right though.  Regardless, I dont solo much, never been a big fan of it, however, I did a little testing last night and noticed my Aria proc (no lie) 7 times over a 2 hours period...mostly with Eli's.  It was not uncommon for us to proc 7 times in one fight before.  If Sony thinks that this isnt a problem I would hate to say it but this may be the last straw for me in this game.  Let me just say this: With LU13 we as Troubs were forced (not asked) to take the role of a DPS Buff Bot which I'm willing to bet was not the intention of any of us who chose a Troub from day 1.  However, those of us who stuck through all these changes probably have done so because we have grown to love our characters more than re-rolling another char <i>(as it is easy for others to just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and moan about us doing that since they continuously get better with most of these Live Updates).</i>  Since, LU13 I have learned to play my class in a different enviroment and sucked up the fact that I would no longer be in the MT group anymore, for the rest of my existence in EQ2.  I have even sat back while stuff has gotten taken away from us with no compensation whatsoever.  This however, is the the straw that broke the camels back...How can Sony POSSIBLY believe that this class is enjoyable to play anymore?  What do we do on raids now; put up mana song, put up deaggro, put on ranged attack, put in debuffs,  jester's, jester's , jester's, jester's, precision, jester's, jester's....4-5 hours later...phew that was fun.  Im sorry but I would rather put my [Removed for Content] character on auto-follow and go out and play some basketball if that will be the mold for my character the next few months.  With that being said, I would also like to point out that I in no way, shape, or form intend to do 1k+ dps...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], I never intended to do 800 dps when I chose a Troub, so for those of you out there who say "if your casters are benefited stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing cause Troubs arent dps" I say this to you...[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] You.  We were SO PERFECTLY BALANCED before these changes it wasnt even funny.  My dps would sit at around 600-700 dps (Teir 3 as we should be) and I actually felt I was used beyond my range of jester's / precision / and mana regen during raids.  My 600-700 dps could be the difference between a win and a lose which is still true about 200 dps but come on now...we scouts (technically), were not healing, so why are we in the same tiered dps as them...WHILE THEYRE HEALING!?  Again, I never intend to be super dps, but having at least some would be somewhat enjoyable, dont ya think?  I hate to say it but I really do believe this most recent LU copuld possibly be the deathblow to all Troubs in game...as if there wasnt too few of us to begin with.  Anyways, thats my flame, been thinking about it since the changes yesterday and just needed to vent.  As always, there will be some of you out there woul dont agree and feel the need to respons with some stupid answer to this, again...have away...your opinion is no more valued and appreciated than mine.Ranzal - 70 Kerra TroubadorOasis Server<div></div><hr></blockquote>Amen <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[emr]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kaelos_CZ wrote:is that right?  wizzies proc aria more now?  so we add more to the dps of wizzies, but our personal dps has gone down?  so now i guess we have to get the devs to look at raising our ca damage or something.   knowing soe.. we might (big MIGHT) get fixed at the next expansion, which will probably be about the same time Vanguard comes out.  hmmm.  buy xpack or try out Vanguard..  gdmit soe. i hate you. <div></div><hr></blockquote>SOE will now publish Vanguard</div>

[Mimsi]

<DIV>/rant</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a huge, huge change for us non-huge guild, non-uber troubs. Just patched in the update and aria has barely procced once - I've literally lost tons of DPS - I've died umpteen times battling due to angry pets turning on me during a close battle (forced to take dangerous pets to up the DPS) ... and this against green junk mobs. I barely ever get the long cast spells off due to interrupts - (yes I'm sheild line too). Meastro seems lame and hardly worth using. I could go on ... but it's frankly rather depressing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dunno if I'm being paranoid now, but been LFG for 2hrs and not a bite - normally I wait a whole 10 minutes <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess I'm gonna have to refocus on getting 'stuff' again, so I can contribute like you folks that are going to post and say 'I haven't noticed the difference cos all my dps comes from uber piercers, 50AAs, massive haste, huge buffed int etc'. Well, props to you, but mine didn't, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you Sony for smacking the little people with a bloody great hammer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/rant off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Mimsi on <span class=date_text>05-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:56 AM</span>

[MrCanoehead]

<P>Parsed several fights in PPR last night and Aria accounted for 6-9% of my damage typically.  Howvever Necro was geting numbers as high as 11%.  He is our leading DPSer in raids so if i can increase his output by 10% I still think it's worthy of a conc. slot.  Not to mention the other 3 robes in the group.</P> <P> </P>

[Antipalad]

Wizards procing aria more is like piddling in a vast ocean. Pointless.Give us something in return for this nerf please, I see chanters get raid "utility" back, where's our love?

[Killerbee3000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Swisher Report wrote:<BR>I have my toon build as a caster, with Master II Aria's...I don't know what to say really...maybe this:<BR><BR><BR>I don't like this last patches changes! ...and I really want to flame SoE, right now.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>exactly same situation here

[Laralma]

I mostly duo with a Fury, so I didn't notice the difference much, and I didn't read the patch notes either.  Last night I was looking through a combat log for Aria procs and didn't see any, but I have difficulty picking out the HO combat messages too.  I did look at the spell description for Aria, though, and in still says 30%.  So... what exactly did the patch notes say?  (The server's down, I can't look it up.)  If Aria isn't proccing 30% of the time, is that a bug, or did they just forget to update the spell description?  I'm just trying to understand what actually happened, especially because I am only one level away from another Master II decision.

[IKS_Nels]

<DIV>ok how has this affected me well it sucks!!</DIV> <DIV>Solo may get 1 proc a mob maby 2 using a few long cast low damage spells one a group based spell on a single solo mob</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In raids it only counts for 4% yes thats right 4% of my dps,   now if i run Precision of the Mastro that jumps to 12 to 14% combined hardly seems like we are over powered now!!!</DIV> <DIV>In fact with burst dps i can hit 500 dps now a drop of 100 pre nerf, still acounting for 12% of my dps against a group of 7 mobs and benifiting from PotM at time</DIV> <DIV>In prolonged combat its down to 280 to 320 dps vs single target were it only accounts for 4% of my dps. </DIV> <DIV>seriously this Nerf is hurting us pre LU I could out Dps my guilds Guards and pallys happly and stay within reach of our monks and bruisers, Now I have healers out dpsing me on group targets and Tanks spanking my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on all targets Bruisers are doing 2 times the amount of damage I am in any encounter they ment to be T4 dps Bards ment to be T3 </DIV> <DIV>I know they are only ment to be guide lines but their is no way that you can ignore the fact we are doing no were near their damage now that we should be. to do the damage I am doing on raids i am now burning power like its going out of fashion using twice as much power as our MT a guardian is doing in combat and he will out dps me by 150 :smileysurprised: and only 13% of that is from other classes damage procs placed upon him. here are some parsers ill post directly on to the page so you can compare what we are doing to the other class's</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(03:10) 1107262 Virginy-9890 | 5,827.70<BR>Cilariz 212201 | 1,116.85 I 5436 I  I Shadestrike-2328              "Necromancer"<BR>Virginy 163628 | 861.20 I 4242 I  I Fusion-9890                         "Wizard"<BR>Natasya 158677 | 835.14 I 0 I  I Decapitate-9424                      "Swashbuckler"<BR>Bohemian 156734 | 824.92 I 4830 I  I Galestorm-1509             "Necromancer"<BR>Bathulk 89827 | 472.77 I 7976 I  I Kidney Punch-2110              "Bruiser"<BR>Kordanx 84179 | 443.05 I 749 I  I Refusal of Conviction-2122  "Pally"<BR>Paxy 75044 | 394.97 I 70 I  I Sonic Boom-2122                        "Illusionist"<BR>Leoric 66784 | 351.49 I 112269 I  I Obliterate-1147                   "Guardian"<BR>Nareldar 61424 | 323.28 I 0 I  I Flawless Shrill-1526                 "Troubadour" (Me)<BR>Morfina 12556 | 66.08 I 2422 I  I Thunderbolt-2417                   "Fury"<BR>Jabaner 9634 | 50.71 I 0 I  I Ring of Fire-292               <BR>Kidibuz 8573 | 45.12 I 2027 I  I Winds of Arctic Cold-1593       "Healer"<BR>Sweetpie 0 | 0.00 I 1901 I  I                                                         "Templar"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now how my dps breaks down to this     Duration 02:35s</DIV> <DIV>Type of attack                                      Damage :    DPS   :   Hits  :  Crits  : Description</DIV> <DIV>Slash                                                      6768          43.66       68          0       weapon auto attack</DIV> <DIV>Sandra's Bewildering Incursion            4171          31.60       10          1       CA </DIV> <DIV>Precise Note (PotM)                             6318         39 4.88       19         0       Precision of the Mastro Proc</DIV> <DIV>Pilfer Essance                                      1614           13.6          5           0      Spell dose damage and returns power (suposably)</DIV> <DIV>Pierce                                                     7974          51.45       48          0       Weapon Auto attack</DIV> <DIV>Noble Blade                                           6554          48.55       12          2       CA "double attack"</DIV> <DIV>Kian's Catastrophic Antham                 7180           44.32        3           0      DeBuff Encounter wide DoT as well       </DIV> <DIV>Flawless shril                                        8116           54.84        8           0      Spell DD (long ish recast)</DIV> <DIV>Eli's Thunderous Chorus                      4018           31.64        6           0      Spell DD ( very low damage short recast long cast)</DIV> <DIV>Dissonant Note                                     1736           12.96        4           0      Aria Proc song the one that was "Nerfed"</DIV> <DIV>Dancing blade                                       4499           33.83        9           0      CA rear attack</DIV> <DIV>Alin's Indiscandescent Concord           2476           34.39        4           0       Spell Encounter based attack</DIV> <DIV>Guviena's Apathetic Chant                        0                0            4          0       Debuff Target only</DIV> <DIV>Lore's Magniloqent Roust                          0                0           4           0       Debuff Target only</DIV> <DIV>Oppresive Discante                                  0                0            3           0      Debuff  Encounter wide</DIV> <DIV>Demoralizing Processional                       0                 0           3           0       Debuff Encounter wide</DIV> <DIV>Awesome Bellow                                      0                 0           4           0      Stunn  Encounter based</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looking at that you can see I cast the following with out even considering delays between casting</DIV> <DIV>4 spells that were 3 second cast</DIV> <DIV>6 that were 2 second cast</DIV> <DIV>23 spells that were 1 second to cast</DIV> <DIV>8 spells that were 0.5 seconds to cast</DIV> <DIV>4 instant cast spells </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>only 4 songs Proced Aria's out of that lot </DIV> <DIV>Thats 45 spells and 4 procs form a 30% chance to proc song,  you would have trouble with the Trade discriptions act in some countrys with this</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Previously to the Nerf the Aria procs would go off 30% of the combat and account for 14% of our damage and PotM would account for 21% see the disparity between these numbers  we took a hit and a big one like most of us said we would. SoE should listen to us in the future. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PotM proced 20 times of off the same encounter pre LU</DIV> <DIV>Aria Proced 12 Times of off the same encounter pre LU</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for other class's its the same situation Wizards and necros are not  getting much dps out of this either but they are getting twice the number of procs we are over the combat period</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YES thats Right THEY MADE THESE CHANGES TO BALANCE PROCING RATES BETWEEN CLASS'S AND THEY REVERSED IT! LONG CAST TIMES NOW MEANS MORE PROCS FOR YOU. COMPARED TO EVERY ONE ELSE........... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WAY TO GO SONY THAT WAS WELL TESTED AND THOUGHT OUT</DIV>

[Zeral498]

<blockquote><hr>IKS_Nelson wrote:<div></div> <div>WAY TO GO SONY THAT WAS WELL TESTED AND THOUGHT OUT</div><hr></blockquote> Well, the devs had an objective in mind with the proc nerf, which was probably to tone down the Illusionist DPS and also to have more stability to control the DPS tiers in the future. I think what happened with us Troubadors is that they didn't really think it would effect us that much, or didn't think about us at all, and went with the nerf anyway. So in the end their primary objective was completed but Troubadors took some collateral damage from it. To be quite honest I don't know if they will ever fix us. <div></div>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zeral498 wrote:<BR><BR> To be quite honest I don't know if they will ever fix us. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>[Removed for Content].... yeah they're going to "fix" us all right - as in neuter us - in the next LU.  I can't believe how bitter I am feeling right now about these proposed changes to the Troubador class.... </P> <P>/welcomes back real life =)</P>