LU 21 auto attack after casting dmg song/spell

[Bellat]

<div></div><div></div><div>Folks,</div><div> </div><div>looks like I am going to whinge again.... thats funny cause i have stuck with troubador all this time.</div><div> </div><div>but whoever had the idea that one (lu 19 i think it was) that using a bow CA would turn on auto ranged and then 2 using a dmg CA would turn on mele auto attack... may perhaps think that they are helping someone who is dumb to hit the auto attack key or something.</div><div> </div><div>I for one relied on song CA that fell into the spell category to act like a spell... no Durn Auto attack.. that way i would not suffer riposte, and more importantly would not break my own mezz while emergency CC in a group where i just fired off my debuff then song CA.</div><div> </div><div>one thing, lots of times my name does not blink (which it should do if im auto attacking). so when i get hit by an add.. turn target and mezz ... i break my own mezz... when i try to turn off auto attack... it does'nt..... not good.</div><div> </div><div>i could live with the bow change.. all i had to do was hit the tilde key twice, once to change to mele and again to turn it off.. this was annoying, gut only really affected me while soloing.</div><div> </div><div>now as emergency Crowd Control in a group... well that has become a royal PITA....</div><div> </div><div>please make spell like songs CA act like spells.. please don't try and anticipate that someone won't put on autoattack when they should, so you make it easier for them... some of us dont want autoattack on.. we have to then spend time to turn it off... and right now it dont look like i can even turn it off.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>ok i just actually tried this in game.. no auto attack on.. first spell/song cast is lullaby.... it turned on auto attack!!!  not good at all...</div><div> </div><div>a bit more testing... and lullaby will only start auto attack if you proc Aria... still not good, but also means all the non dmg debuff will also proc auto attack if proc aria.</div><div> </div><div>really if i want to auto attack.. I will turn it on myself.. I rely on NOT auto attackin for groups for CC and avoid mobs riposte etc.</div><div> </div><div>change it back please</div><p>Message Edited by Bellator on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:34 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Bellator on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:05 AM</span></p>

[Cygnu]

<div></div><p>Ok, if casting Lullaby turns on auto-attack then they messed up. Thats rediculus!</p><p>Why did they make any change anyway. If people want to cast spells let them cast spells. If people want to use CA's, let them and if people want to auto attack, let them.  Just let us do it ourselves!  We don't need SOE to hold our hand all the time :smileymad:</p><p> </p>

[Bumblethither]

Honestly if they want to add something like this it needs to have a toggle on/off flag so WE can chose to use it.<div></div>

[pera]

My question is if Aria's procs off casting lullaby that would really suckThis is probably  a reallyl really bad change to the way spells work,   I mean if a person is not smart enough to realize they need to hit AA when they Need to instead of just smashing their head on the keyboard hopeing to kil something it would be differnt.Please give us a way to turn this new option off.  It might be good for cursaders but as bards it sucks major [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] expecialy with the bug where your name will stop flashing red/white while AA is turned on.<div></div>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><p>Any time there is a change to a mechanic people are going to whine.  Honestly when I started by Troub I would always lead off with spell based attacks and then wonder.......[Removed for Content] am I not auto attacking!?!</p><p>I haven't tried it out yet but I am pretty sure I am going to like this change.  As easy as it is to say....."Just turn on auto attack"......it's just as easy to say....."Just turn it off."</p><p>So far what I can see is that Aria seems to be procing on spells/songs that it shouldn't.  If Aria is procing when you try to cast any mez or debuff that is a bug and needs to be fixed.</p>

[Pik'ee]

<span><blockquote><hr>perano wrote:My question is if Aria's procs off casting lullaby that would really suck<div></div><hr></blockquote></span>As far as I'm aware, Aria has alway had a chance to proc off of Lullaby, and has never broken the mez for me. Keeping the Seal Keepers mezzed in Blackscale, I've taken 9-10% off their health just thru the aria proc on Lullaby when the 4th keeper has taken a while to spawn.Auto attack is a totally different matter, as this will be a pita at close range. However I have used lullaby a few times since the update and not noticed any problems, but until now wasn't aware to look out for it. I think we will be fine though.

[Pik'ee]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<div></div>So far what I can see is that Aria seems to be procing on spells/songs that it shouldn't.  If Aria is procing when you try to cast any mez or debuff that is a bug and needs to be fixed.<hr></blockquote></span>Aria's description clearly states that it procs on any hostile spell. Any debuff and even a mez are clearly hostile spells.

[Kulaf]

<div></div><div></div>Fair enough.....how about this as a compromize, they need to disconect Aria as being one of the spells that causes damage and thus turns on auto attack.  Then the Aria procs will not cause auto attack to turn on when a non-damaging spell/art is used.<p>Message Edited by Kulaf on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:15 AM</span></p>

[Jehannum]

<div>If I didn't know better and realise that rather than being targets, we troubs tend to simply get ignored and forgotten, I'd think this was a deliberate attempt to curtail our ability to solo heroics by firing off a couple of damage spells followed by a melee-range mez.</div><div> </div><div>Fortunately, I know better.</div><div> </div><div>Please, Sony, Devs, whoever, change this so we don't get locked into an autoattack we specifically want to avoid.  I'm sure it seemed like a great idea for some classes, but it totally hoses several of our more commonly-used tactics.  It hoses the soloing I've mentioned, it messes with grouping and our ability to effectively manage crowd control (tell me Kian's doesn't start autoattack too?!) and provides virtually no tangible benefit to offset the penalty you've applied.</div>

[mook85az]

Kian's starts autoattack.I was all over this change, I loved it! I always wanted autoattack to turn on when using the scream or encounter scream or powertap.  But not Kian's... with the damage it does, I consider it more of a debuff to help against resists.  And I don't want my debuffs to turn on autoattack if they proc Aria.  And mezzing...!  It can be a problem for Lore's snare because that has a chance to break on damage too.Disassociate Kian's and Aria from turning on autoattack.  And give me an option for ranged autoattack.  I just use that to stifle when solo, I don't want to actually attack with it!<div></div>

[ForgottenFoundling]

<div></div><p>heh, I called this...</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=50547#M50547" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=50547#M50547</a></p>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><p>Yeah I called it too:</p><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=51112#M51112" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=51112#M51112</a></p><p>But now that we have it let's make it work as intended.</p>

[pera]

<span><blockquote><hr>Pik'ee wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<div></div>So far what I can see is that Aria seems to be procing on spells/songs that it shouldn't.  If Aria is procing when you try to cast any mez or debuff that is a bug and needs to be fixed.<hr></blockquote></span>Aria's description clearly states that it procs on any hostile spell. Any debuff and even a mez are clearly hostile spells.<hr></blockquote>Aria's does proc on mezed targets its just Lullaby is applied after the dmg is done to the mob so aria's it self wont break mez, my question will the proc turn on my AA because a spell of mine did damage.</span><div></div>

[Straygats]

Lullaby does not turn on auto-attack.(Just stating it for sure if it hadn't been or re-stating if it had for reinforcement =P)Can't speak for reverie but one would dare to assume the same.<div></div>

[Bellat]

<div></div><div>Lullaby will not turn on auto attack.... UNLESS aria procs.. the very first time i tried it aria procced, mezz landed and i was flashing.. i was at range so no biggie.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>next attempt i had an add. auto attack was off.. add was right on me... i mezzed it.. to have aria proc, and immediatly broke my own mezz...</div><div> </div><div>aria has allways procced off lullaby, the mezz lands after the dmg so no biggie, in fact with patience ya could mezz a mob to death.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>now there seems to be a lot of the time, especially in gorup.. where your name does not flash to tell you if you are in auto attack or not...</div><div> </div><div>this is when you think you turned it off (because seriously i hardly ever mele anymore) i dont mele solo because my  laughable mitigation and avoidance suck so bad I have a much lower survivability rate trying to mele a mob than staying back and throwing spell CA. mezz snare rinse repeat. I rarely mele in group because by the time I have layed down my debuffs and spell CA I have a refresh of at least one up.. the added 2 sec between concurrent refreshes is not a concern of mine.. since I gave up trying to be a ranger for personal dps a loong time ago.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>now for some more testing... and im sure i noticed this last nite... tank pulls.. uses taunt.. procs aria.. and im in auto attack.. without ever having done anything.</div><div> </div><div>let us toggle this most ridiculous feature on or off please.</div><p>Message Edited by Bellator on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:02 PM</span></p>

[Kulaf]

<div></div>The easiest solution I think is just to remove Aria from the list of songs that can trigger AA on.  That is of course depending on how it is coded.

[Dystopya]

Shoot me please.I hope they make this toggleable <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Bellat]

<div></div><p>and furthermore.</p><p> </p><p>forgetting to turn ON auto attack is lazy.</p><p> </p><p>but having to turn OFF auto attack is PITA.</p><p> </p><p>situation... emergency CC .. you mezz and it turns on autoattack.. using a fast weapon.. before ya can turn it off ya broke your own mezz... not good.</p><p> </p><p>situation... emergency CC... you been throwing your debuffs and shrill etc.. auto is on ... every proc of aria it is on again (including tanks and other players aria procs) and your name aint flashing... throw that mezz.. break it yourself.</p><p> </p><p>after LU13 i made the adjustment from super buff stacker to amazing utility..  i resigned myself to being a caster wearing chain.. i was happy with that.. if im casting.. i do not want auto attack turned on for me.</p>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><div>Yes.....we've established that Aria is the problem.  The solution is to have Aria removed from the list of spells that will start auto attack......and perhaps adding an optional switch to turn it off once it is actually working as intended.</div><div> </div><div>Continuing to to beat the drum that this option is bad is silly.  It is actually a nice feature......once it works as the devs intended it to work.</div>

[Bellat]

<div></div><p>i tend to disagree mate.</p><p> </p><p>it is not a nice feature at all.</p><p> </p><p>we have plenty of Mele CA to start auto attack mele if thats what we want.... if i want to cast.. i want to be treated like a caster.. if i want to mele god forbid... ill turn on auto attack or use a mele CA to start it.</p><p>Disabling aria alone aint gunna do it.. though it would make it much easier...</p><p>let spells be spells and mele be mele</p>

[shortfa]

Greetings fellow troubadors,Actually our auto-attack starts once we've casted any hostile spell (hostile spell don't have to do damage to be hostile) on a mob. This can been seen if you just mezz a mob at a distance and you'll see the "You start to attack" message appear whether there is a proc or not.  This can prove to be quite a problem if you're standing too close to a mob after mezzing it. The problem here is the auto attack and not our aria proc.I kinda disagree with some of the people's view that we should remove the proc from our mezz since thats a nice bonus we have (taking down a mobs life while we're mezzing, which will help speed things up abit when the group finally gets to it) and i'm glad that our list of hostile spells (stuns, debuffs, taunts, snares etc.) are as wide as it is, allowing our aria proc to be more useful to the population in general. So please do not ask them to shorten the list of "hostile spells" we have. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />While i personally hate this new mechanic, there are other of our troubador friends who actually like it. It would seem that the most logical solution would be the suggestion by the other posters to put a toggle in options to turn this "auto attack on spell casted" on and off, hence making everyone happy! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Bakunin]

For a while I have used the following macro for mez<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> /autoattack 0 /useability LullabyI cant get in game at the moment, but I wonder if the following would switch off autoattack fast enough to prevent mez breakage?/usability Lullaby/autoattack 0</font><div></div>

[mook85az]

Someone said that worked in global Troub last night.<div></div>

[Warond]

If aria procs off mez, it'll inflict damage to the mob, before it's actually mezd...and thus you can mez something to death if you really wanted too./useability Reverie/autoattack 0Make that macro, fixes the autoattack thing with spells ;<div></div>

[Dali]

<div></div><p>The easiest solution for this problem would be:</p><p>Let Lullaby and Reverie turn OFF auto-attack once they hit, much like Shroud does (sneaking). There, problem solved. Oh yeah, AND remove the flags on Kian's, Alin's and Discouraging to turn ON auto-attack.</p>

[Vandileir]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>perano wrote:My question is if Aria's procs off casting lullaby that would really suck<hr></blockquote><p>Yes and no. I ususally run arias constantly when i'm soloing, especially with the Master II i took at 64. Alot of times i rely on mez/charm to keep me safe from adds.I want to say it's 50/50. Lulaby and Brias charm will both proc arias like any hostile spell will. However, not all the time is the mez broken by the proc. I dont know why. I can only imagine it's due to the stacking of the damage. If the proc triggers prior to the mez portion, mez sticks. If it procs after mez, broken.</p><p>I did alot of testing and its inconsistant at best. Your best bet in solo situations it to use the charm. Dont let your pet pull aggro, you will just get killed when things get out of hand after the mez breaks. use it as backup DPS. I have charmed 66 straight con mage mobs that nuke for 8-900 for me. Its a nice little bonus to my DPS and I can hold aggro off them easy.</p><p>(For fun, try charming some of the casters in Palace of the Awakened, I think there the Summoners, and watch them nuke for 3-4k and cast group stuns on your opponents that last 12-15 seconds)</p>

[Swisher Repo]

Please turn off auto-attack for bards.1. Our mez spells do<u> not turn on auto-attack</u>, the <u>damage proc of Aria (ie a damage spell) turns on the auto-attack</u> due to last patches/changes.<u><b>Conclusion:</b></u>[Removed for Content] were you thinking!!! Turn off auto-attack for bards!!!<div></div>

[Firon17]

<div></div>The macro like it put above doesnt work. The only think I can think of is target yourself after you have begun casting the spell<div></div>

[Kulaf]

<div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=99065#M99065" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=99065#M99065</a></div>

[Meadso]

<div></div><p>I hope they give us an option of turning this feature off, it's absolutely killing me in PVP: the range on our snare means that by the time I turn autoattack off I have hit the guys 4-6 times with my measly melee damage and broken my own snare. You should see what I look like if the other guy happens to be a bruiser or brigand, I can assure you it ain't pretty.</p><p>I've had to turn off autofacing and camera facing and have experimented with macros. But really should I have to macro every ability I got to stand a chance of survival?</p><p>Please allow this to be toggled.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Bassist]

I can't run Aria's in a raid unless the mezzer is WAY out of autoattack range or not in my group.  If an AoE mezz is cast, at least one Aria's will proc which causes the illusionist to start auto-attacking.  Due to the large melee range of many raid encounters this can cause the illusionist to break his/her own mezz and be in a state they are not used to (auto-attack).  So, for now, I must make sure that the illusionist is not in my group, and make sure the raid leader knows that the illusionist cannot be in a group with a troub.Has anyone found an option to turn this off?

[Kulaf]

<div></div><div></div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=19075#M19075" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=9&message.id=19075#M19075</a></div><div> </div><div><div><hr>The original thinking behind this change was for Fighter and Scout classes to have auto-attack turn on when they cast a damage spell, similarly to how auto-attack engages when you use a combat art.</div><div> </div><div>The fact that procs turned on auto-attack was unintended.</div><div> </div><div>I'm currently working on a better way for this to work and should get it hotfixed out soon.</div><div> </div><div>My apologies for the inconvenience.</div><p></p><div>Joshua "Autenil" KriegshauserSenior Programmer, EverQuest II<hr></div></div><p>Message Edited by Kulaf on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:35 AM</span></p>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><hr><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Combat ***</font></strong>- Fighters and Scouts will no longer begin to automatically attack if they proc damage.- An issue that was causing charm spells to potentially break sooner than they should has been corrected.<hr>

[Jehannum]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<div></div><hr><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Combat ***</font></strong>- Fighters and Scouts will no longer begin to automatically attack if they proc damage.- An issue that was causing charm spells to potentially break sooner than they should has been corrected.<hr><hr></blockquote><p>HOORAY!!!</p><p>Good to see that if the problem is universal and annoying enough, even for a redheaded class like ours, it gets some attention <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Edit - thought of other situations it'd be pretty brutal (though I'll admit I hadn't thought of the possibility of making the enchanter auto-attack, that's priceless lol)</p><p>1. Darathar vs a level 55ish or below tank - assuming a 'lowbie' tank likely still dies to riposte unless he's avoiding autoattack like the plague.</p><p>2. Healer enters autoattack without realising it and targets another group member (i.e. the chanter) and wakes up their target.</p><p>3. Mage enters autoattack without realising it and gets one-shot riposted.</p><p>Message Edited by Jehannum on <span class="date_text">04-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:32 AM</span></p>