Tactics thread borrowed from the dirge forum (props to Whysprr)

[VericSauvari]

<div></div><div>I noticed the dirge forum has more discussions then us troubadors, so i went a browsin' and found this little gem from <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=199366"><span>Whysprr</span></a> , i think if we start filling this up it may answer a lot of questions from new people to the forums/to the class or even help us longtime troubadors learn a thing or two:Dear<strike> Dirges</strike>, TROUBADORS</div><div> </div><div>I haven't really seen a general tactics discussion here for awhile, and the various updates have moved</div><div>things around quite a bit.  And, there are folks who've studied and parsed and tried different things, and</div><div>who really know their stuff.  Time to inform the rest of us who're clueless. </div><div> </div><div>As much as I enjoy optimizing equipment and deciding what to use as Master 2 and the like, I'd guess that</div><div>good tactics is more important.  I'd like to nucleate a discussion of <strike>Dirge </strike>TROUBADOR Tactics in three settings;</div><div>solo, group, raid.  I'm going to take a whack at organizing the discussion as follows, though you may think</div><div>it's better to carve it up differently, in which case, go to. </div><div> </div><div><u>Pre-contact: </u> What buffs do you run, when?  Where do you place yourself prior to the pull?  To both, what's your rationale'? </div><div> </div><div><u>Pull:  </u> What do you pull with <solo>.  What do you throw on the approach?  How much kiting do you do?  Why? </div><div> </div><div><u>Early combat:  </u> How much debuffing do you do?  In what order?  Do you start spells with delayed/continuing effect (Kians, Sonnet, Zanders line) before or</div><div>after debuffing?  Where do you place yourself for this phase?  Why? </div><div> </div><div><u>Continuing combat: </u> What attacks do you use, in what order?  When do you use Wail of Woe/Hymn of Horror?  How do you cycle attacks/HOs/debuffs.  Where do you place yourself?  Do you cycle in the stealth-based attacks and if so, when?  Why? </div><div> </div><u>Additional</u>What AA do you feel are the best and why?<div></div>

[Iggyopalus]

<div>well this is mostly from raiding:</div><div> </div><div>I start with debuffs, usually the str/agi, then our 55 one, then the wis/dot, then the magic debuff (lvl 35), though this is more b/c of the order on my hotbar than anything.</div><div>i'm on dialup so i don't bother jousting i just stay out and hit my bow attack, the 2 mental attacks that can be used far away, and the 2 encounter attacks.</div><div>after a while I'll hit pm though on trash mobs I enjoy hitting it right at the start for 2 reasons:</div><div>1)to get extra dps casting debuffs and such</div><div>2)to try to kill mages in my group for comic effect (that might not fly in most guilds but people tend to find it amusing in mine)</div><div> </div><div>for buffs i use these since i'm normally with all mage types, though sometimes the odd scout sneaks in so i might put up haste or str/sta buff instead</div><div>Dove, Power, Spell proc (i go with this as my master2), self int buff, deagro buff</div><div> </div><div>in poets return or something where there is no aoe to worry about I pretty much just mash all my attacks like mad in the hopes that when the server registers my keystrokes I have something targetted, oh yea, good times on the 50 billion mob encounters on dialup</div><div> </div><div>for aa's I'm starting with wisdom for the faster cast rates for the group, and the crit for the group, plus i get that bow attack so i have one more buttom to press at range so i feel like i'm doing something... makes me feel like a big man.</div><div>I'll likely go int next for the extra bonus to casting abilities of the group, though I'm not sold yet.</div><div> </div><div>p.s. I'm human and thus better than veric b/c he is a rat, this is not open to discussion but instead fact.</div><div> </div><div>Acappella - The Last Word</div><div>Crushbone</div>

[Lazkr]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><u></u><span><blockquote><hr>VericSauvari wrote:<div></div><div>I noticed the dirge forum has more discussions then us troubadors, so i went a browsin' and found this little gem from <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=199366"><span>Whysprr</span></a> , i think if we start filling this up it may answer a lot of questions from new people to the forums/to the class or even help us longtime troubadors learn a thing or two:</div><div><u>Pre-contact: </u> What buffs do you run, when?<font color="#006600">   </font><span><font color="#006600">Solo: Brias, Daelis Self Buff, Raxxyls, Quirons, last Conc slot left open for Charm or Aria depending on pull</font><font color="#006600"></font><font color="#006600">    Group: Brias, Balletic, Aria, Daelis, (Dove, Health Regen or Haste)</font></span> Where do you place yourself prior to the pull?   <font color="#336600">Solo: At max range to land Mez</font><font color="#336600"></font><font color="#336600">    Group: behind MT usually in front of rest of the group. (range of Mental debuff and Snare as well as Defense Debuff) is shorter than Demoralizing Processional, Oppressive Discante, Zanders and Kians) so I try and sneak in a little close and land those 2 before dropping back.  This position also gives me a good view of any linked adds to encounter and I can mezz.  I have no problem Mezz parking 2 or 3 adds at a time and have used this effectively in Den of Devoyerer and Sepulcher parking 3 Stewards until 4th popped.</font> To both, what's your rationale'?   <font color="#336600">Solo: feel it optimizes my best chance of success.  If i can put myself in a position to range a mob succesfully terrific, I keep Arias down so on a mezz pull i can effectively debuff with my complete acoutrement without Aria's going off and breaking hte mezz.  then I Flawless Shrill, and maybe Guivenas (arrow attak) turn off auto attack from arrow and re-mezz putting myself in Max range once again. If by chance i have meleed before mezz lands and can gain  distance Quirons is working to regain health.</font>  <font color="#336600">Group: lazy assist MT, on pull debuff, or mezz adds. back to lazy assist MT and depending on mob type, first and always Mental debuff to help against the possible resist of other group memebers attacks, and if its a melee mob Str Sta debuff, if its a caster type I zanders MaR debuff, get Shroud up flank mob and Land Startling Shriek to debuff INT.  then its Defense Debuff (Lores Limerick line)  Demoralizing Processional and a mashing of CA's and Bellow to stun, Ranged CA for Stifle and even hammering Mezz not for crowd control but as a form of interupt.</font>  <font color="#336600"> * Note * in a AoE multi mob pull, maybe on Boss mob type with adds I will Mental debuff snare Boss, then sing Precision Of Maestro - once POM is up I Kians, Zandres, Oprressive, and Alins, with Aria up and PoM up while the next song is casting i am clicking off the previsous landed AoE (green background) why? in a 20 second PoM I can thus land Kians x 2, Oppressive Discante X 2, Zanders x 2 and Alins Discord X1 getting the added DD of Aria Process and Dissonant Note of PoM.  Worst is gettng hit with a knockback as soon as you sing PoM and having to cancel it to get back into range.  in an AoE encounter Troubs can do massive amounts of damage.  </font></div><div> </div><div><u>Pull:  </u> What do you pull with . - <font color="#336600">only time I pull is when soloing - Bow, turn off auto attack, Mezz (see above)</font> What do you throw on the approach?<font color="#336600"> mental  debuff/ snare  (solo or group) throw the kitchen sink of debuffs at mob, order depends on class of mob.</font> How much kiting do you do?<font color="#336600"> NONE</font> Why? <font color="#336600">I have little to no difficulty getting a goup and when it comes to Risk vs. Reward I see no uber loot to be gained in soloing almos tall encounters so i prefer to group.  Most of my soloing is Green or Blue ^ at the most. and singles or 3-4 mob groups are easily dealth with.</font></div><div> </div><div><u>Early combat:  </u> How much debuffing do you do?  In what order?  <font color="#336600">See above</font> Do you start spells with delayed/continuing effect (Kians, Sonnet, Zanders line) before or</div><div>after debuffing?  Where do you place yourself for this phase? <font color="#336600">See above</font> Why? <font color="#336600">See above</font></div><div> </div><div><u></u></div><div> </div><u>Additional</u>What AA do you feel are the best and why? <font color="#336600">I have 4 pts in Int  Line 1 and Line 2 and Line 3, 2 points in Wis Line 1, I like the added CA melee  ability of Rhytm Blade Int Line 2 Rank 4, but am thinking of respeccing and doing all the complete WIS AA to Line Line 5 Rank Max, then going back to Int line.  I have however picked up some nice 1HS weaps and if i cna find a nice round shield may go with STA line.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote>I hoipe this helps and my format is readable, I have never posted this much, tried to work with quotes.  sorry if the color gives you headache. Slainte,Lazician  Ona'LeashMinstrel Clan of ShadowsBefallen Server</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:59 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Lazkraf on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:02 AM</span></p>

[Jehannum]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>VericSauvari wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div><u>Pre-contact: </u> What buffs do you run, when? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Daelis - almost always except when crafting.</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Bria's - almost always except when soloing solo mobs.</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Quirons - almost always when soloing</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Raxxyl's - often when soloing, almost always with >1 other melee class in the group</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Alin's - Almost always when in a group (except easy zones with two healers)</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Aria - Almost always in a strong group, less often in a marginal group I need to give survivability</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Resistances - as appropriate to the opponent</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Dove Song - When the target's orange to me or mage dps classes in the group</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Avoidance - When we're up against large groups and I anticipate the mage dps classes needing to dodge well.</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Reflection - almost never.</font> Where do you place yourself prior to the pull? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Right between the tank and the healers.  That way I keep everyone in range so I don't get buff-refresh aggro, allow myself to mez/charm and debuff to take the edge off incoming damage spikes.</font></div><div> To both, what's your rationale'? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Already rationalised placement, and as to the buffs it really depends on the group and/or target - most zones, if not encounters, are different enough that the rationale varies several times per night even in the same group.</font></div><div> </div><div><u>Pull:  </u> What do you pull with . </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Stifling shot 4tw baby.  In fast-pull groups if I haven't had it refresh yet, Shrill is next best.</font> What do you throw on the approach? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Snare, Kian's, Shrill and if it's a really long pull, Alin's group damage.</font> How much kiting do you do? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Not a lot; I got most of that out of my system in EQ1 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Unless you count mez/move/nuke/mez to be kiting, in which case all blue+ heroics perish that way, and some greens.  On the pull, I usually don't kite too much in a group; it's all about lining up a debuffed mob for slaughter and running off to find more.</font> Why? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">I think I more or less covered that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></div><div> </div><div><u>Early combat:  </u> How much debuffing do you do?  In what order? <font color="#66ff00">Lots, in groups, a fair bit solo; see next.</font></div><div> Do you start spells with delayed/continuing effect (Kians, Sonnet, Zanders line) before or</div><div>after debuffing? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Invalid question; Kian's and Zander's <strong>are</strong> debuffs.</font></div><div><font color="#66ff00">Answering the spirit of the question however, I like to land the snare and Zander first to help Kian stick, which debuffs wisdom and makes it that much more likely that Oppressive and Demoralizing will stick too.  I usually try to target the most dangerous opponent so that's the one who takes the snare's extra 1500 mental debuff.</font> Where do you place yourself for this phase? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Usually do this on inc when I'm not pulling, so I'm still between the tank/puller and the healers usually.  While it's ongoing I move around to the mob's 6 so I can start up melee without worrying about riposte.</font> Why? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Premature exposition again <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></div><div> </div><div><u>Continuing combat: </u> What attacks do you use, in what order? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Optimally, I use HO/Lore/doublestrike/HO/Elude/Shrill/HO/Cheapshot/Daggerstrike/repeat - but sometimes I have to pilfer or backstab, and sometimes I like to give other people a chance to participate in the HOs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And often I'm just plain lazy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font> When do you use Wail of Woe/Hymn of Horror?  How do you cycle attacks/HOs/debuffs. </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Debuff, then do 8-10 HOs, then debuff again.</font> Where do you place yourself? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Usually behind the mob.</font> Do you cycle in the stealth-based attacks and if so, when? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Yes, but only rarely.  I can think of one mob I've done so with lately; El'arad's messenger.</font> Why? </div><div><font color="#66ff00">Had I mentioned recently how much I loathe mental-immune mobs?  No?  Well I have now.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></div><u>Additional</u>What AA do you feel are the best and why?<div></div><hr></blockquote>As to AAs, it's a tough call.  Int gives some nice boosts to the skill songs, wisdom is undeniably powerful with de-aggro, speed and crits, strength has some interesting get-out-of-debt-free cards, agil has an extra stealth ability, stamina has an extra stun... All in all, I'm actually fairly impressed with how even most of the potential choices really are, for us bards.  Not necessarily impressed with all the 8-point abilities, but that's another story <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />