My thoughts on the state of Troubadors

[JackFrost]

<div>I know, I know...who cares about my thoughts?  Hell even I don't most of the time, but my server is down for the gazillionth time and I find myself with some time to kill....</div><div> </div><div>I have come to an uneasy peace with the Troubador role change that SOE forced on us.  At first I was [Removed for Content] because it was not the character that I had spent a great deal of time to develop, but after a bit I came to enjoy the new Troubador role as a caster buffer.  I think they did a fairly good job on the whole of giving us the skills to do that job with one exception.  Please give me a group int buff.  I know that Precision of the Maestro has that as a secondary, but we need it as a secondary on one of our persistant group buffs, like Aria or something like that.  I like the fact that they left us with some usefull buffs to help noncasters as well (except the haste buff which I feel is useless).  I would also like to see our Blades line (agi/int buff) changed to be a single target buff, instead of a self only buff.  Other classes (Fury for instance) have single target int buffs that add more int than our Blades line does, so I don't think it would be overpowering. </div><div> </div><div>I know that our real power and DPS is found in our contribution to the group...but I feel that they have left out our personal DPS a little too much.  Soloing is a pain in the butt and takes forever.  They need to give us a boost somehow in the solo DPS area to make it a little easier for us to work on solo quests or have a little fun while looking for a group.  I know that some will say that they can solo just fine, but I think the average Troub feels that our solo DPS is lacking and it takes too long to kill while solo, making it not worth the time.  If you look at the tier that we are supposed to be in for DPS, then we are decidedly lacking in solo DPS.  I'm not talking about a huge boost, but some would help.  I wouldn't mind seeing some more bow CAs to fit in with our caster role and keep us at a distance.</div><div> </div><div>AAs are a little sketchy at this point.  I think that there are too many scouts classes for the AA tree to cater too.  We are abnormality and they are having difficulties making AAs that are usefull to us and are still usefull to other scouts.  Since we are the minority we might get shafted.  I hope they look at the Int line and beef it up with good Troub skills.</div><div> </div><div>The only real problem I have with our spell list is our Reflection spell which has been proven useless over and over, but they have done nothing with it.  This can't be that hard of a fix.  Possible fixes have been suggested in numerous threads that are realistic and not overpowering.  If they are not going to fix it, then replace it with something we can use.  Right now it is just taking up space and isn't even on my hotbar.</div><div> </div><div>Overall I have come to love my Troub again after the changes.  I know that other classe probably have bigger issues to deal with, but I wish they would throw a little labor our way every once in a while instead of just nerfs.  Still don't understand how they came to the conclusion that Serenade was game breaking enough to warrant the effort instead of fixing something like Reflection.  I like Serenade, but at adept III, casters could still pull aggro before the change if they give it a shot.</div><div> </div><div>Just my opinion.</div>

[Mackrala]

<div></div><p>/agreed</p><p>We are now a caster buffer without a doubt. However, I would also like to point out that the only time that we're "extremely" meaningful is during raids when you have a troub with 5 other mages in the group procing off of aria and precision. Combined with our debuffs and buffs we're irreplacable. That being said, a group int buff would be welcome. However, I would like to state to all of the complainers on this forum that "WE ARE A SUPPORT CLASS!!!" If you want to solo go start a bruiser.</p><p>-Sonnica, Lvl60 Troub, Everfrost</p>

[JackFrost]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr> However, I would like to state to all of the complainers on this forum that "WE ARE A SUPPORT CLASS!!!" If you want to solo go start a bruiser.<p>-Sonnica, Lvl60 Troub, Everfrost</p><hr></blockquote>Your right, our primary role is a support role.  Unfortunately there are times that we have to solo to either complete quests or to fill downtime while we find a group.  We have to have solo capability and right now that is lacking.  So telling everyone to go play another class to solo is not realistic.  It may not be your play style to solo, but we have the right to expect to be able to solo.  The Troubador was not designed as a group only class, no classes are.  Yes we can solo, but it is too time consuming to do it.  No one is asking for a huge bump in DPS so we can solo.  I don't expect to be one of the best solo classes because I'm happy that I am one of the best group classes and I don't want to see it nerfed to give me a big jump in solo capability.  By design we have to be able to solo and it would not be overpowering to give us a boost in solo capability since ours is so low.<p>Message Edited by JackFrostAK on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:15 AM</span></p>

[Pik'ee]

Whilst we may not be that great as soloers, spare a thought for the guardians and templars etc. We can still rip through mobs it takes them about an hour to kill. I am personally happy with my class - maybe due to playing guard and templar before finding my favourite class in the troub - and aprt from a few minor grumbles (AP skills for example), I really don't think we have too much to complain about.<div></div>

[Scootsd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pik'ee wrote:Whilst we may not be that great as soloers, spare a thought for the guardians and templars etc. We can still rip through mobs it takes them about an hour to kill.<hr></blockquote>This is a great point...everytime I hear ANY scout class complaining about DPS I think of the poor templars.  If you have never played one and you think your DPS sucks, start one up and try to kill something.

[Lachlan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Pik'ee wrote:Whilst we may not be that great as soloers, spare a thought for the guardians and templars etc. We can still rip through mobs it takes them about an hour to kill. I am personally happy with my class - maybe due to playing guard and templar before finding my favourite class in the troub - and aprt from a few minor grumbles (AP skills for example), I really don't think we have too much to complain about.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well, to be fair to the OP lots of other classes have gotten some pretty nice candy between levels 20-50 so it's not without any cause he's drawn this conclusion.  I can say having played a guardian a long time they can barely solo, not efficiently for exp at least, and their group buffs mostly are ineffective except for the HP buff which is something of a help for casters that die easy.  All scout classes, even troubs (I've been playing one a short time now) have great DPS compared to others.  As for just being a mana battery with 'okay' DPS I don't really see a problem with that.  It sounds as though the biggest problem might be the level 50 wait for some of the funner abilities to kick in.  If that's how long it takes for Troubs to come into their own, Dev's ought to give that a hard look sooner rather than later.</p><p> </p>

[JackFrost]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Pik'ee wrote:Whilst we may not be that great as soloers, spare a thought for the guardians and templars etc. We can still rip through mobs it takes them about an hour to kill. I am personally happy with my class - maybe due to playing guard and templar before finding my favourite class in the troub - and aprt from a few minor grumbles (AP skills for example), I really don't think we have too much to complain about.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Your right.  That was the intent of my original post.  I don't think any of our issues are major right now.  I just think that we are becoming a forgotten class because we are a minority.  We just need a few tweaks.  Just because other classes are worse at something than we are, doesn't mean we shouldn't speak of it.  They should talk about it and so should we.  We have become an abnormality in the scout class because we are geared toward casting rather than melee, which makes it easy for SOE to forget about us when changing things unless we bring it up.  I think the Troubador community has been doing well in this regard without overreacting and making us seem like a bunch of whiners.<p>Message Edited by JackFrostAK on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:50 AM</span></p>

[TheFat]

<div>Personally I don't have a big problem with the soloability of the troubador class. To relate it to what has already been said, I tend to think of troubs as having the same solo effectiveness as say Illusionists, Templars, Guardians, etc.</div><div> </div><div>When I made my little guy I never had a fantasy of being deep down in a dungeon by myself, singing at the top of my lungs while killing beasties that would make mince meat out of "lesser" classes. I made him to be the masculine cheer leader/coach of a group that pumps them up and helps them to take on bigger and better targets. When I DO solo I just set my sights a bit lower than I would with my necro,  berserker, or bruiser. Instead of going after those yellow mobs I go after the blue. Instead of taking on the triple ups, I go for the single ups.</div><div> </div><div>I know some may say that's just not right and that troubs should be able to take on whatever other classes can (which they can post 50 to varying levels of success) but, honestly, we're a group class and that's what we're great at. Finding groups with a lot of classes can be pretty difficult, but with my troubador, I usually have a group in a matter of minutes. At least at higher levels. Once players learn what we bring to the table they can't get enough of us. The only other class I've played that comes close to getting groups as easily is my warden. Making groups better. It's just what we do.</div><div> </div><div>All that being said, if they DID want to improve our soloability I'd suggest simply changing our self buff to reflect some of the abilities offered by other classes stances. Instead of buffing our agility and intelligence (which increases our avoidance and spell damage) they could simply change the buff to increase overall or melee dps by xx% and increase hps or some defensive stat such as parry by xx%. If they were worried about making it TOO good, just make it cost 2 conc or something like that. That would fairly assure that any decent troub wouldn't be running it in full groups, only when solo.</div>

[Grimme]

<div></div><p>I have to disagree with the op here. Troub is one of the better done classes in the game in my opinion (I play 10 of them so I have broad experience here). I know when I log in my troub I am specificlaly looking for a group, and if I'm forming a group I'll fill the rest of the dps slots with casters if I can (though I have other buffs if we are scout heavy that work quite well thank you). That's it.</p><p>And that was the original intent for the class from day 1.</p><p>For soloing, yes head to head we have a hard time, but kiting.. wow. Especially around 34ish with the 1 minute duration full encounter dot, for example.</p>

[JackFrost]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GrimmeHF wrote:<div></div><p>I have to disagree with the op here. Troub is one of the better done classes in the game in my opinion (I play 10 of them so I have broad experience here). I know when I log in my troub I am specificlaly looking for a group, and if I'm forming a group I'll fill the rest of the dps slots with casters if I can (though I have other buffs if we are scout heavy that work quite well thank you). That's it.</p><p>And that was the original intent for the class from day 1.</p><p>For soloing, yes head to head we have a hard time, but kiting.. wow. Especially around 34ish with the 1 minute duration full encounter dot, for example.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree that the Troub is one of the better classes.  My post was aimed at saying that it was one of the better classes and all we needed was a few tweaks, not a major overhaul.  But as long as there are solo quests and solo mobs, then characters are not made to be group only.  Soloing is a fact of life for certain quests and certain play styles.  SOE has never designated a class as group only and has gone out of their way to provide solo content.  In fact they have said that all classes should be able to solo.  I am lvl 60 with my Troub and I can count the number of times I've soloed (since about lvl 15) on both hands.  I picked this class because I wanted to be usefull in groups and raids.  That does not take away from the fact that I should be able to solo better with this class if that was my play style.</p><p>The intent of the original post was to say that overall we have a great class, even after a complete revamp of our role.   There are a few minor tweaks that we could use, but I think for the most part we are pretty well off.  Groups love me and a raid group of casters and one Troub is a thing of beauty.  The vast majority of bards that I talk to (not too vast because we are pretty low in numbers) feel that our solo ability is lacking in personal DPS.  I think that feeling is represented on the boards here as well. </p>