AA's made worse (all watered down to zero)

[Trabbart]

<div>Many AA's have been watered down, stun on shield lasts 1 sec, root taken of bow attack, the 8 pointer immunity to knockdown is gone etc. etc.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Some of our important stat lines allready were junk. Intelligence line nothing good same for agilty line</div><div> </div><div>I guess SOE really hates us</div>

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Trabbart wrote:<div>Many AA's have been watered down, stun on shield lasts 1 sec, root taken of bow attack, the 8 pointer immunity to knockdown is gone etc. etc.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Some of our important stat lines allready were junk. Intelligence line nothing good same for agilty line</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">I guess SOE really hates us</font></div><hr></blockquote>Man do I despise it when someone posts that.

[TheFat]

<div></div><p>Yes, I agree. Obviously SOE hates us. They're just so sick of having to balance the game for all of these paying customers that they just can't wait to tick us all off and have us quit the game. Troubadors especially. I heard a dev the other day at lunch, talking to another dev, say how he had just stealth nerfed every class on the last patch and how he was sure that would make at least 30,000 players quit. At that the other dev gave him a high-five and said "Sweeeet! I can't wait for all of these stupid players to quit so that I can get back on unemployment! Woohoo!"</p><p>/sarcasm off</p><p>Honestly though, the AA's are just supposed to be a little extra something here and there, not earth shattering spells that change the whole nature of the class. I agree that I would like to see a bit more punch behind some of the buffs/CAs but, as we've already seen a dozen times in the last few weeks, they're still tweaking them. Who knows what they'll be like next month. Besides, from what I understand, you can upgrade them by putting more points into them so the percentages get higher, the stuns longer, etc.</p><p>Really all they've done with these AA's is make one player that specialzes in one tree just a little bit better at one or two things than someone who didn't take that tree. Go down the tree that focuses on bow arts and wa-la, you're a troub who's known for using his bow. Go down the tree that utilizes shields and you'll be the troub who likes to go into battle with a shield on one arm as opposed to dual wielding. It just keeps us all from being a carbon copy of each other all wielding the same weapons, with the same buffs, same stats, same everything. At least that was the idea, until the someone finally decides what the "best" AA line is and then everyone will take that same line and complain that there's not enough diversity among the classes.</p>

[juz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TheFates wrote:<div></div><p>Yes, I agree. Obviously SOE hates us. They're just so sick of having to balance the game for all of these paying customers that they just can't wait to tick us all off and have us quit the game. Troubadors especially. I heard a dev the other day at lunch, talking to another dev, say how he had just stealth nerfed every class on the last patch and how he was sure that would make at least 30,000 players quit. At that the other dev gave him a high-five and said "Sweeeet! I can't wait for all of these stupid players to quit so that I can get back on unemployment! Woohoo!"</p><p>/sarcasm off</p><p>Honestly though, the AA's are just supposed to be a little extra something here and there, not earth shattering spells that change the whole nature of the class. I agree that I would like to see a bit more punch behind some of the buffs/CAs but, as we've already seen a dozen times in the last few weeks, they're still tweaking them. Who knows what they'll be like next month. Besides, from what I understand, you can upgrade them by putting more points into them so the percentages get higher, the stuns longer, etc.</p><p>Really all they've done with these AA's is make one player that specialzes in one tree just a little bit better at one or two things than someone who didn't take that tree. Go down the tree that focuses on bow arts and wa-la, you're a troub who's known for using his bow. Go down the tree that utilizes shields and you'll be the troub who likes to go into battle with a shield on one arm as opposed to dual wielding. It just keeps us all from being a carbon copy of each other all wielding the same weapons, with the same buffs, same stats, same everything. At least that was the idea, until the someone finally decides what the "best" AA line is and then everyone will take that same line and complain that there's not enough diversity among the classes.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Have you gone and see what other classes get for AA's????</p><p>Bards are BY FAR the worse of the 12.</p>

[Trabbart]

<div>Well i am sorry if you guys REALLY hate it when people complain. I REALLY hate it that some people have become so masochistic about their troubs that they accept everything thats done or not done to their characters.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Stockholm syndrom anyone???</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Fact is we are still treated as the unwanted stephchild of  EQ2. Still no instruments, continuously watered down abilities, (and now AA's) and some broken spells. But hey dont complain. Its just a game.</div>

[TheFat]

<div></div><p>I honestly don't mind when people complain. I just hate when people go off on the "They hate us" tangent and when the post has zero constructive value.</p><p>Ok, so the bard AA's stink. What would you change about them? What would you prefer to see? Is there ANYTHING good about the existing setup or should it be scrapped and rebuilt from scratch? There's just no point in saying "Our AA's suck and SOE hates troubadors." other than to get some other people to go "Yeah! These suck!" it just turns into a flame fest.</p><p>And yes, I've looked at all the other AA sets. Honestly, I don't think I've found anyone that's honestly excited about the new AA's except for maybe druids and shamans because they get a pet. And even then they complain it's too weak to make a difference or overwrites their wolf/lion spells. I'll also readily admit that bard AA's seem to be among the least usefull of the new skills because a lot of them are direct attack skills, or the like, and most troubs just aren't recruited for their damage. It's all about the buffs.</p><p>As with most hybrid classes a lot of people just don't know what to do with them. Should we focus on their buffs? Should we focus on their dps? Should we focus on debuffs? It all depends on who you ask and honestly the troubador forums seem to be well below many other class forums as far as activity goes. I know everyone's going to say devs ignore all posts and could care less about what we type here but we could at least try to come up with solutions we like to the problems we face rather than just saying "This sucks. You suck. They all hate us."</p><p>To use an analogy I kinda' view the introduction of AA's like this. SOE went to the kitchen and cooked us up some hamburgers. They served 'em to us and we didn't like 'em. They didn't go into the kitchen, spit in our burgers, and then throw them at us. It's not like they're TRYING to screw troubadors. Just tell 'em what you don't like and maybe it'll get changed. Who knows.</p><p>It's just after seeing class after class scream about how the devs are targetting them specifically it gets a little old.</p>

[Trabbart]

<div></div><p>K i can understand that constructive imput is better than just ranting. true.  But there have been some good posts on dirge and troub sites that listed constructive ideas regarding the AA's .</p><p>The only thing i have seen SOE do is make the, allready not so great, AA's for Bards weak, weaker, weakest. My only conclusion is that they are unwilling to think about our class and just go "safe" and give us gimpie stuff. It would be nice to see some real thought put into the bards for once instead of us being the class that gets scraped to "balance" the game.</p><p>Hence my oversimplified rant  "SOE hates us" </p><p> </p>

[Sanju]

<span><blockquote><hr>TheFates wrote:<div></div><p>I honestly don't mind when people complain. I just hate when people go off on the "They hate us" tangent and when the post has zero constructive value.</p><p>Ok, so the bard AA's stink. What would you change about them? What would you prefer to see?</p><hr></blockquote>I can't speak for anyone else, but I've seen many bards in beta post many, many, many thoughts, ideas, concerns and suggestions about the AA tree -- without a single dev response, or reply, and without ANY of those ideas being implemented, or even, seemingly considered. Well, I'm tired of offering feedback to a brick wall (I, and others, have even tried to talk to the developers directly. I've never gotten a response (even a simple "noted", or "we're listening" would be something). So, it's just easier to say "the devs hate us" ... I'd actually say they don't even know we exist.</span><div></div>

[Haeli]

I dont understand why everyone has to view it so competitively...Before AAs you had no augmentation of abilities. Now after you put 50 points in or whatever you will have better abilities. Who cares what everyone else got, its not as if this were a pvp game, you're competing against monsters. And they ALL have better abilities than you =P Hows that for balance?<div></div>

[TheFat]

<div></div><p>At the risk of a slight topic derail:</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Trabbart wrote:<div></div><p>But there have been some good posts on dirge and troub sites...</p><hr></blockquote><p>I've had a really hard time finding comprehensive, up to date sites that deal with bards. Anyone mind sharing one or two good sites with me that I could check out? All I ever seem to run across are sites that have an outdated FAQ or strategy guide for troubs. I'm big on spell analysis, group and solo strategies & tactics, that sort of thing.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[juz]

<div></div>I know Bard forums are low on posts but in KOS beta we had the most post of any sub class concerning our AA's and not one word from a dev.

[Scootsd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>juzamaku wrote:<div></div><p>Have you gone and see what other classes get for AA's????</p><p>Bards are BY FAR the worse of the 12.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Then go make another character.  I actually enjoy playing my Troub...I like playing in groups and in raids and I can even solo a little if the mood strikes....I don't care what our AAs our I like my character...if you don't try a different class until you find what you like or what has the best AAs if that's what does it for you.</p>

[Dali]

I agree the AS aren't that great. I do see some options that would be viable if only the specific weapon requirements were removed.I agree with the STA line requiring a shield for some abilities, but I can't see why the AGI line specifically requires a dagger and the INT line specifically requires a rapier.Why not make them require Dual Wield weapons, or Slashing or Piercing weapons? Or, like druids and sorcerers, make the effects vary on the weapon equipped. You're already limited in which line you can max (which I think is great), but why limit the Bard's playstyle by specifying which weapon is used if they are supposed to work to get these points?Edit: and on the topic of the initial AP, for which you get no alternatives: let me just say I'd have preferred the +parry/defense and +magical damage resist over being able to cast Lucky Break twice as often.<p>Message Edited by Dalinn on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:43 PM</span></p>

[pikeymoose]

<div>We bards unbalance the game by grouping...oh great so balance us so that if in a group the OTHER 5 players don't become too powerfull.  This leads to all bad things coming our way in order to nerf the other classes less.</div><div> </div><div>Makes for a pretty gimped class to solo with though.  All of this Balance on group buffs, makes for dismal improvements to group aa's.  Nothing is ever going to change with this class.  SO get used to it.  We are the bot/ pet of every group.  Need to be there be fairly lifeless if not grouped.</div><div> </div><div>Precision, and aria were both bang on pre nerf for a soloing bard. We got by ok...then we grouped and the group was "overpowered"...easy fix..?  ,   take away 50% of the damage from those songs.  It will allways be a takeaway from bards to fix group play.</div><div> </div><div>Moose</div>

[Grimme]

<div></div><p>I actually like the troub AAs. They seem to fit the class pretty well, and actually once I went through them and put together my list of the ones I thought were the best, it is longer than the lists I have put together for my other chars.</p><p>All of my chars (I have 10) have AAs that fit them perfectly. While it is true that not every single AA is useful for every player, it is interesting putting together combinations of them that are achievable.</p>

[Blakeavon]

things like the Rapier weapon thing in INT line really need to be pierced weapons in general. i ahve been using my weapon of choice since t2 and now i have to change it if i want to use, its just plain silly.<div></div>

[911GT3]

If you dont like any of the abilities you could always just put all your points into stat increasing.<div></div>

[SureShot]

<div></div>I honestly think SoE is leaving plenty of room to grow with future AAs.  We had to start somewhere, and I anticipate better AAs with future expansions.

[pera]

<span><blockquote><hr>Blakeavon wrote:things like the Rapier weapon thing in INT line really need to be pierced weapons in general. i ahve been using my weapon of choice since t2 and now i have to change it if i want to use, its just plain silly.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Agreed all of this should be changed to the base weapon type ie, slash, pierce curshing, shield, ranged.   Specifec weapon types just dont make since.For example here is one in the warrior tree that they never bothered to fix either.   In one of their trees i want to say sta, but not sure, they are 'required' to use a bucker, pretty mcuh the second to worst shield there is.   Now why in the hell would any warrior pick a bucker, even though the aa abilit is nice its completly worthless compaird to the benifits that would be gained by useing a tower shield.</span><div></div>