Hey devs GET A CLUE

[Rampagious]

<div></div>First of all what the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are they thinking...like 6 days before expansion is realeased they basically completely revamp AAs....here is a little idea...<font color="#ff0000">Strength line:</font>2% more effective per rank for parry/defence, so thats 8 parry (dirge) or 3 defence (troub) =  whoopie doo (and thats on master spells)2% more effective per rank for attributes, like i said before unless the caps were higher attributes are far to easy to cap. And this even nerfed the bonus to like 1-2 per rank for Master 1 version of the buff.     Why not give us, a buff that increases the caps by 5 per rank for each member of the group??!??!<font color="#ff0000">Agi line:</font>Another self parry buff, +100 parry on a dirge why on earth do we need this? BARDS DONT TANK.Poison buff in AGI, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!!?!?!?!?!? where did we develop the abilitiy to use poison from? And its in AGI, wisdom or int maybe at a real push.Group invis, yeah we've been there so many times come on.<font color="#ff0000">Sta line:</font>Roundshield stuff, please i used a roundshield in t5 (i was one of the very very few) and that was because of the bonus off the zalek shield. Never again, and no dirge would give up 1/3 of there dps for a shield, considering how low the dps is.AWESOME THANK YOU FOR GIVING US AAS TO USE WITH A [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING ROUND SHEILD WOOT - I GET TO BLOCK MORE!<font color="#ff0000">Wis line:<font color="#ffffff">So erm a bow attack with less hate, erm since when did we have a problem with hate.Combat speed, nice, but no where near enough %.Spell crits, worth while as its group. Maybe 1% per rank tho, not 0.7%.2% to all crits for a rank 5. Maybe 10% would be worth it.<font color="#ff0000">Int Line</font>2% more effective per rank of skills buffs, erm so thats like 8 ranks is a bonus of 2 to skills what a load of rubbish.AWESOME WE STILL HAVE COIN TOSS!Grand idea to completely change AAs to give very little testing, awesome.  I was def looking forward to them til I saw this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</font></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Rampagious on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:42 PM</span></p>

[Siberia2]

Regardless of this post's downward spiral appearance and probability of lock, the guy's got a point. Why the sudden revamp, and more importantly, why the sudden nerf?<div></div>

[pera]

There is no way these things can be effectivly tested in just the next few days expecialy with the massive server merges going on at the same time.  yeah ... i expect our AAs to be broken when KoS launches and honestly I would be supriesed if they get fixed sooner than a month from now....Anyone starting to see a pattern here when new things get added put into the game ? ... yeah<div></div>

[Kraks_Aforty]

I agree with you 100%, Ramp.Perhaps these devs are the same folks that buy thongs with guild logos!!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Rampagious]

Lol crac, I just can't believe they completely took spell haste out of our AAs, that was gonna own.<div></div>

[Nevari]

Lol this is a gem again <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Troubador = Your ability to take constant hits and nerfes over a long time and every time you get to love your newly defined role and abilities it is... uhh well <span>:smileytongue:</span>Sorry for my cynism but I really think this is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] funny <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[pera]

Aye, troubadors i guess are still just too powerfull that ability of ours that allows us to actualy hit over 400 dps(multi mob encounters ONLY) ever min and hafl is just way way to powerfull.  I mean we are so over powered our reflection would actulay be usefull.yeah they have to keep nerfing the AAs every time the can to make them all equaly [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty. they cant have any set being actualy usefull, they might as well just change them all do group inivs and pick pockets because we know all bards wanted to be brigands<div></div>

[Spo]

<div>Devs : Wake the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up!!</div>

[Sanju]

If this wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.You know, at this point I think most Troubs would be happy if they changed Coin Toss or Vanishing Act into a spell that made group/raid members dance.<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[vinterskugge]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>I'm cross posting the post I just made in the beta forums in the hope that it might get noticed by a dev here.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I'm going to go through the entire list of bard AAs and put in my suggestions about what they should be.</p><p>Firstly, I don't like the idea of having to put points into a lesser used stat (eg WIS for us) to be able to get other abilities.  Why not make it so you can choose to get points in any stat, and need to put a minimum of 4 into these to unlock all the branches?  Also, I have every stat maxed out at 8 points and they are all buffing their stat by a different amount, this seems broken.</p><p>I've put a lot of time into this, so I'd appreciate any feedback, hopefully we can get the achievement system turned into something all bards can make use of.</p><p>Suggested AAs:</p><p><strong><u>STRENGTH - Path of the Bladesinger.</u></strong></p><p><strong>Turnstrike:</strong>  I like this one.  Fast cast time, so an alternative to jousting the occasional AOE to get some extra DPS in, and a recast that isn't stupidly long, yet doesn't make AOEs trivial.  <em>LEAVE THIS AS IT IS.</em></p><p><strong>Bladedance:</strong>  These skills would be a lot better if you upped the percentage.  The tiny amount these buff does nearly nothing.</p><p><strong>Bladesing:</strong>  See above.  Maybe double the base % to make it worthwhile.</p><p><strong>Bladedance:</strong>  The five minute recast is too long.  For a final ability, this needs to have the recast put down, maybe to one minute like Turnstrike.  This would mean it would still have a use, but not be able to trivialise all AOE attacks.</p><p>Overall, this line just needs a few minor tweaks to the numbers to make it a good line for any raiding bard.</p><p> </p><p><strong><u>AGILITY - Path of the Wayfarer.</u></strong></p><p>This line has been changed a bit to make us feel more like a wayfarer, one of the travelling bards who will try and con you out of your coin with his songs and tales.  It flows better than it did now a couple of the old lines were removed, but still needs some work.  It does sort of feel like we're just being given rogue abilities.</p><p><strong>Bump:</strong>  I'm not a huge fan of this one.  It has damage and everything, but the long recast makes it useless as an additional combat art.  Maybe make it a % chance to pickpocket and have mobs only able to be pickpocketed once, meaning the recast could be lowered to around 20 seconds?  Also, it seems broken right now, I've not been able to steal a thing.</p><p><strong>Wayfarer's Watch:</strong>  Self parry buff, goes to +50.  Whilst this would be great for any soloers, it's totally useless in groups and raids.  Making it targetted does seem really overpowered though (a dirge could potentially buff parry of others by over 100).</p><p><strong>Poison Concoction:</strong>  I really like this.  Not a very high chance of proccing, but it's always on.  <em>LEAVE THIS AS IT IS.</em></p><p><strong>Vanishing Act:</strong>  This really does need changing.  So many classes have a more powerful version of this already, chances are if you join a group, someone will already have group invis.  And if you're solo you can just use Shroud.  Trying to keep with the Wayfarer theme will be hard though.  The two suggestions so far, Fading Memories and Selo's Song of Travel would both be nice, but Selo's doesn't fit in with the rest of the line.  Fading Memories would make sense in there under the Vanishing Act name.  Either that, or scrap the stealth idea and make a whole new final ability for this line.</p><p>Better than it was, but still needs some tweaking (or a complete overhaul for Vanishing Act).</p><p> </p><p><strong><u>STAMINA - Path of the Skald.</u></strong></p><p>I know a lot of people dislike this, but remember that the majority of people don't raid.  It's going to be very hard to make things useful for all play styles, and as it stands, this line is really likely to improve our soloing capability.</p><p><strong>Round Bash:</strong>  Great, an extra stun and some extra damage.</p><p><strong>Skald's Defence:</strong>  6% sounds a little low for a maxed ability, but I'm not an expert on block % and how it adds to avoidance.  Maybe needs upping?  I'm not sure, but seems useful enough.</p><p><strong>Fortissimo:</strong>  40% to crit chance is huge, this is a great ability.</p><p><strong>Shield Focus:</strong>  With all the mobs in KoS that knockdown, this is going to be really useful.</p><p>Overall, I think this is the most well rounded line.  Yes, a lot of these will be useless for raiding, but if I spent a lot of time soloing I wouldn't hesitate to max out this line.  Good job.  <em>LEAVE THIS LINE AS IT IS.</em></p><p> </p><p><strong><u>WISDOM - Path of the Harbringer.</u></strong></p><p>This was one of my least favourite lines before, but it's been improved a lot.  A little disappointed to see Don't Kill the Messenger changed though.</p><p><strong>Harmonising Shot:</strong>  Description doesn't match spell.  Now is a large hate reducer combined with a ranged bow combat art on a relatively short recast.  The snare is in the description, but gone from the ability, which is fine by me, I already have a snare, and a much better one.  The damage really needs to be upped though.  This hits for half an average autoattack bow shot.  We really needed another ranged attack though, there's not much I can do from a distance when my debuffs are all up.</p><p><strong>Harbringer's Sonnet:</strong>  I didn't really notice any effect on Selos.  How about making it a new buff, an upgrade to selos?  40% runspeed and 10% in combat?  I don't think kiting is a technique often used by bards, so the movement in combat isn't going to be made use of much.  Maybe give us Selo's Song of Travel here?</p><p><strong>Allegro:</strong>  Great, although 5.3% seems a little low for a maxed ability.  Maybe give it a boost?</p><p><strong>Don't Kill the Messenger:</strong>  Now gives a 2% bonus to ALL crits.  Definitely needs a significant boost for a final ability, and a name change too.</p><p> </p><p><strong><u>INTELLIGENCE - Path of the Minstrel.</u></strong></p><p>This would be a great line, if it wasn't for the totally useless final ability.  One change can make this great.</p><p><strong>Rhythm Blade:</strong>  I like this, it's a nice little ability.  <em>LEAVE THIS AS IT IS.</em></p><p><strong>Minstrel's Aria:</strong>  Boosting the Swan Song/Boon lines is nice to have.  But it boosts my Dove Song by WAY more than 16%.  I go from 25 to skills and 50 to focus up to 43/85.  Leave it this powerful though, it needs to be to have any noticeable effect.  <em>LEAVE THIS AS IT IS.</em></p><p><strong>Minstrel's Melody:</strong>  Great!  My haste is up to 34% from 20%!  Great change!  <em>LEAVE THIS AS IT IS.</em></p><p><strong>Coin</strong> <strong>Toss:</strong>  I know you're proud of the HO system, but this spell really is trash.  What I'd really like as the final ability for this line is the spell haste back.  Let us reduce our group's cast times again.  This would be a great final ability to go in here, and something we've seen you can do.</p><p>Message Edited by vinterskugge on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:51 PM</span></p>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><p>Honestly.....who cares?</p><p>These are free abilities.....they cost you nothing.  They have said you can respec them as much as you want.  They also said that the abilities would very likely change a lot prior to launch.  That's what having a Beta or Test server is for......to beta test and test things.</p><p>If there are imbalances they will be fixed.....and it will cost you absolutly nothing.</p><p>If you sweat the little things, all you do is end up sweaty.</p>

[Bassist]

<div></div>This thread needs some Chuck Norris love!Complain away after it's live, but give feedback (as another thread did) until then please.  There's enough destruction in the world today, lets all try to add some construction <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />edit:  Bah, vinter did a good constructive critique in thread <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'll go back to my cozy cave now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Bassist on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:33 AM</span></p>

[Rampagious]

Kulaf what you are seeming to miss, throught out all of beta NOTHING has changed about really any of the classes AAs besides %'s durations and recasts.  All of a sudden yesterday EVERY CLASSES AAs almost got completely revamped.  Why?  Seriously why have all those AAs on beta just to change htem six days before they are released on live, that doesn't even make logical sense.  Oh and since you would be that kid saying dont [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about free [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Look at the stuff we get, the stuff we get is just flat out stupid.  A FINAL AA ability costing you 8 points is to flip a heroic opportunity?  The [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  You have AAs for increased chance to block when using a round shield?  I will state agian, the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]?  If half of the AAs even made logical sense, but just sucked, it would be a differnt story.  But they just don't.  Another awesome one, they will give us a gimped poison in the agility line of all choices..mmm...reguardless, I suppose you are right about the free part, but at least other classes have AAs that actaully do something, and or have positive sides to effect their classes with more than like, two abilities.  And if I forgot to mention, Im glad that the abilities they put in each tree made logical sense, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing looks like that just put them wherever they randomly decided to.<div></div>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><p>First off.......breathe in........breathe out........</p><p>Secondly there are internal development servers where a lot of these changes are spawned and tested prior to them getting to the public beta or test servers.  So I get rather tired of the "but it's so close to release and we don't have time to test it" ideology.</p><p>Finally these abilities are not set in stone.  As we have seen with the recent CA proc fix......NOTHING is set in stone.  So provide /feedback and /bug reports and hope for the best.</p><p>Getting yourself in a tizzy is just not doing anyone any good and almost guarantees that your post gets tossed in the bit bucket by the devs.</p>

[Sanju]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<p>Honestly.....who cares?</p><p>These are free abilities.....they cost you nothing.  They have said you can respec them as much as you want. </p><hr></blockquote>First of all, these are most certainly NOT free abilities. You'll have to earn achievment points "</span>by doing quests, acquiring rare items, exploring, defeating special enemies, and earning adventure levels." You're not simply granted 50 AAs when you log in, to spend how you please.  As an added bonus, if you're already level 60 when KoS is launched, it will be much harder to gain achievment points (compared to a level 20, who has 50 levels to go before level 70).You can respec them "at an increasing cost" ... they do not mention what that cost is, or whether it's monetary or time-based (i.e. if you choose to respec you lose AAs, when must be re-earned through quests, items, etc.). Regardless, you won't be able to respec every fight, or every raid without some type of penalty.<div></div>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><div></div>Does the gaining of AA points in any way affect normal exp gain?  The answer is no.  These abilites are free.......period.  This is not the EQ1 system where you need to divert a portion of normal xp into AA xp. Level 60's will be under no undo duress to get AA's.....because once you hit the level cap all of your normal xp diverts to AA xp.  So it will still be easier for a level 60 to get his or her 50 AA points than it will for a level 20.<p>Message Edited by Kulaf on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:09 PM</span></p>

[vinterskugge]

<div>By that logic, levels 1-60 are free, so who cares about them?</div>

[Kulaf]

<div></div>How so?

[Bassist]

<div></div>Maybe they want to see how a whole bunch of things work, so they're throwing them out there before it can officially be called a nerf?  I'm not going to join the logic parade trying to show people that this isn't final yet (though I do respect Kulaf for always trying), but this seems to be dialing in on what works.  They have 50 ideas, but only 30 slots.  Which works best with the community?All that I'm trying to say is to keep it from being an attack.  It's beta, and they're tweaking and playing to get the right set.  Give feedback, but there is no need for an attack.  Debate is all good as long as it's not personal.Edit:  Sometimes spelling doesn't come naturally.<p>Message Edited by Bassist on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:44 PM</span></p>

[VericSauvari]

<blockquote><hr>Sanju wrote:If this wasn't so sad, it'd be funny.You know, at this point I think most Troubs would be happy if they changed Coin Toss or Vanishing Act into a spell that made group/raid members dance.<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>yaknow..i WOULD be happy if they made a group/raid dance buff, at least its somewhat original

[Kulaf]

<div></div><p>Let me better explain my "free" stance.  Through the course of normal adventuring you are going to accrue AA exp through no direct means under your control.  If you enter a new area and get discovery xp.....you will also get AA xp.  If you kill a named you will get xp.......and AA xp for the first time you kill it.  You won't get more AA xp by camping the named and killing it over and over.  If you complete a quest you will get xp and a reward......and AA xp.</p><p>You cannot grind AA points in EQ2 like you could in EQ1 if you diverted 100% to AA's rather than normal.  In fact the only grinding for AA's that you can do is once you hit the level cap and then the system diverts all of the experience you would have normally received if you were not at the cap to your AA xp.</p><p>So there is really no way to go out and bullrush your way to more AA points.  They will come naturally through normal advanturing.</p>

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<div></div><p>Let me better explain my "free" stance.  Through the course of normal adventuring you are going to accrue AA exp through no direct means under your control.  If you enter a new area and get discovery xp.....you will also get AA xp.  If you kill a named you will get xp.......and AA xp for the first time you kill it.  You won't get more AA xp by camping the named and killing it over and over.  If you complete a quest you will get xp and a reward......and AA xp.</p><p>You cannot grind AA points in EQ2 like you could in EQ1 if you diverted 100% to AA's rather than normal.  In fact the only grinding for AA's that you can do is once you hit the level cap and then the system diverts all of the experience you would have normally received if you were not at the cap to your AA xp.</p><p>So there is really no way to go out and bullrush your way to more AA points.  They will come naturally through normal advanturing.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Like a cool summer breaze. That felt good to read.</p><p> </p>

[pera]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kulaf wrote:<div></div><p>Let me better explain my "free" stance.  Through the course of normal adventuring you are going to accrue AA exp through no direct means under your control.  If you enter a new area and get discovery xp.....you will also get AA xp.  If you kill a named you will get xp.......and AA xp for the first time you kill it.  You won't get more AA xp by camping the named and killing it over and over.  If you complete a quest you will get xp and a reward......and AA xp.</p><p>You cannot grind AA points in EQ2 like you could in EQ1 if you diverted 100% to AA's rather than normal.  In fact the only grinding for AA's that you can do is once you hit the level cap and then the system diverts all of the experience you would have normally received if you were not at the cap to your AA xp.</p><p>So there is really no way to go out and bullrush your way to more AA points.  They will come naturally through normal advanturing.</p><hr></blockquote>Good for you, you obvious dont care about the AAs.  Now the rest of us that are actualy looking forward to these would at least like to seem the be of some worth.  Hell at the moment the majority of them are very pointless.   And yess thes abilites are going to be just and important as leveling if there at least made somewhat usefull, because they will be necesiary for our class to utlitilze them for the coming kos expantion.</span><div></div>

[Kulaf]

<div></div><div></div><p><span>If I gave the impression I don't care about them.....well sorry for the false impression.  I care about them......but I care about them in a more objective way.  Posting a diatribe of cussing directed at the developers certainly isn't going to help our case.  I suggest a calm rational approach of interaction.  Fill out /feedback if you are on the KoS beta server, and also /bug reports if things are not working correctly, but always temper your comments with the understanding that the abilities are still in flux.....and that you catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar.</span></p><p><span>The AA system in EQ1 went through changes after being implemented in Planes of Power.......I am sure the AA system in EQ2 will also go through changes after Kingdom of Sky is released.</p></span><p>Message Edited by Kulaf on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:55 AM</span></p>