dirge rez + fear + lifetaps vs. troub charm + mez + health regen?

[Aarithon]

<div></div>(i've cross-posted this to both dirge and troub board, since there isn't a generic bard one anymore that i could spot.) Deciding on the final subclass for my bard, these are the main things i see distinguishing the 2. Dirge has <ul> <li>rez</li> <li>fear</li> <li>lifetaps</li> </ul> Troub has <ul> <li>charm</li> <li>mez</li> <li>health regen song</li> </ul> Not sure which of these abilities are useful, are the lifetaps so small that they're worthless?  I understand the charmsong mob can't be ordered to fight for you? i just follows and stays?  Will it fight if you're attacked?  the mez song at 50, how long does it last?  is it any use?  likewise the rez song, is it worth having?  Is the fear song any use? thanks. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Aarithon on <span class=date_text>12-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 PM</span>

[yllis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aarithon wrote:<BR> Deciding on the final subclass for my bard, these are the main things i see distinguishing the 2.<BR>Dirge has<BR> <UL> <LI>rez</LI> <LI>fear</LI> <LI>lifetaps</LI></UL>Troub has<BR> <UL> <LI>charm</LI> <LI>mez</LI> <LI>health regen song<BR></LI></UL> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Im a 59 Troubador, I cant really speak on dirge issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The mezz is VERY nice, and lasts for 40 seconds with a 10 second re cast. So if your on your game, you can keep 3 things mezzed with no break. Its not really resisted much unless the mob is red to you, or you have bad luck.</DIV> <DIV>As you know, you cant give orders to your pet, But it lasts 2 min and I often use it as a long term mezz. If your attacked your (charmed) pet will fight too. It sometimes will break early.</DIV> <DIV>The health regen song is nice, and I think the healers like it due to the fact they dont have to cast many small heals and can focus on the tanks and agro stealers. Downtime with this song is close to gone, as you regen super fast. It will not win any fights, but makes the overall battle smoother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope that helps somewhat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Three</DIV>

[blueduckie]

<DIV>There are many more differences to consider. Troubador is considerably more versatile for any situation as compared to a troubador.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will start with groups. Dirge is very strong for boosting mt and melee. There power regen is mute since both get it. There parry song only helps fighters as mages and priests no longer have parry. Fear song is ok but if it runs the mob into more adds then it becomes no thanks but if they snare it then it is good. They dont boost mage dmg but boost melee a little more. A tank naturally generates less aggro than a dps so the dps boost adds less over all hate gain to a group than troubador hate reduction. Extra rez can be extremely nice in a group situationally but odds of them surviving in a very bad spot and able to run back to group if a see invis limits that. If no see invis or safe spot and they can train off (evac just means you could revive and run back in same time) stoneskin song is good also.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Troubador our mez is a little better than fear for cc. We dont do [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] much to a melee dps but we do add some. Haste song and some spells such as taunts and poisons proc our spell proc. This is huge and can end up with certain fighters adding more dps to a scout than a dirge would. If 2 fighters in our group our aggro reduction song is kind of pointless if one is going to pull aggro because it only effects scouts priests and mages. It is however good for the big dps but hardly used. Defense song helps the entire group as everyone has defense. This is why the troubador is more versatile. Each has there speciality there aimed to but troubador adds a little to all where dirge is melee melee melee.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On a raid you cant put a dirge with dps group and it do much unless a troubador is with them. Boosting a rangers dps for example does no body any good with out aggro reducer because they will peel. Dirge hate gain alone isnt enough for dps to go all out. In 99% of the cases troub aggro reducer is enough. Someone in another thread said a set up for warlocks can peel with troub even with reducer. For scouts this isnt possible unless the tank just isnt taunting. A dirge however is much better for a mt group 90% of the time (resists depends) for the MT group. However a troubador isnt limited to that as it is 100% versatile to any classes in the group. Also with spell proc songs we can actually do fairly decent dps with out evr entering into ae range just using bow and nukes. That is my break down on the classes feel free to add anything if you feel i'm wrong.</DIV>

[WooTast]

To me it boils down to mez vs. rez.  I vote mez. First, all exp groups always have a rezzer if they have a healer.  Many more classes can rez than can mez.  While a few other classes can mez besides the enchanter classes and troubs, our faster recast time and longer mez time makes it more useful.  Plus, pulling troub damage out of the group dps while we are mezzing is not a huge hit to the effectiveness of the group, whereas pulling a bruiser out of dps to mez is.  So using a troub to mez is quite effective. Second, with the changes to death and the lack of leaving a corpse or spirit shard behind, the rez ability has been devalued in my opinion.  Not needing to retrieve a spirit shard gives players many more options while foregoing a rez.  Raid wipes? Revive and try again with no worries about retrieving shards . . . <div></div>

[pera]

Mez            >    Fear Hp Regen   =    Life taps charm        |      nothing nothing       |     rez I really dont think you can comapir charm and rez to be in any way equil.   Only solo is charm usefull,   rez is usefull in both grouping and raiding.   there realli is no equal that  troub has to the dirge's rez. <div></div>

[ForgottenFoundling]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> perano wrote:<BR>Mez            >    Fear<BR>Hp Regen   =    Life taps<BR>charm        |      nothing<BR>nothing       |     rez<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>IMO life taps are preferable to HP regen due to us needing to use a conc. slot to regen HP.  We still use the comparable skills they do in combat, but they receive the benefit of getting HP back on a successful attack.  Given the choice, I'd prefer a lifetap.</DIV>

[blueduckie]

<P>troub power tap</P> <P>dirge life tap</P> <P>i perosnally prefer power tap in groups and lifetap on raids but so many more things effect differences in class is all about what you want.</P>

[ForgottenFoundling]

Dirges have multiple life taps to our one "power tap" (converts enemy hp into our mana).

[Warond]

Mez + hp song + pwr song = gg <div></div>

[Aarithon]

it would seem that with both charm and mez, troubs are superior at crowd control.  Is crowd control much use in EQ2?  I played EQ1 for a long time where it was pretty important, then WOW for a while, where it wasn't a very large part of the game.  Where does EQ2 fit, in the middle of the 2? <div></div>

[WooTast]

<span>In single group exp grinding, our mez ability is quite useful if/when the "bad pull" occurs. It can prevent a wipe in that situation. In single group adventuring, taking on perhaps a named with several linked helpers, our mez ability can be the difference between the group being able to kill the named and not.  I've trioed to clear Poet's Palace and I'm not so sure we could have cleared all 4 named without mez. In raiding, many epic encounters include linked helpers, and our mez ability again can be the difference between winning and losing.  Certainly the mez chores go first to the enchanters, but in a 24 person raid with only one enchanter, my ability to single target mez one or 2 mobs can be very handy. <blockquote><hr>Aarithon wrote:it would seem that with both charm and mez, troubs are superior at crowd control.  Is crowd control much use in EQ2?  I played EQ1 for a long time where it was pretty important, then WOW for a while, where it wasn't a very large part of the game.  Where does EQ2 fit, in the middle of the 2? <div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[pera]

True, but in a lot of casese, (not all),  it normaly is better to just burn down the adds with AE attacks instead of mezzing them.  Makes the encounters shorter, and really normaly if the adds are mezzable they really are just heroics with a lot of hp and dmg output. <div></div>

[Rapinis]

Im stuck in the same boat as you....Im a bard soon to be 20 and im not sure what path i want to take..Does the lifetap regen the same amount of HP the troub's HP regen does? (in a certain time frame?)Charm and mez seem like skills i would REALLY like to use, but i like the malee oriented buffs the dirges get (i like buffs that improve my output also)Can fear be used the same as Mez?  Im pretty sure non-encounter mobs dont ARGO if something gets fear into them no??<div></div>

[Curylic]

<div>How about Stoneskin (Dirge) vs. Spell reflect (Troub)?</div><div>Our spell reflect is useless since it only works on DD's. It rarely goes off and when it does chances of it being useful vs. a dd spell are super rare.</div><div>Stoneskin is So much better.</div>

[Jehannum]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rapinis11 wrote:Im stuck in the same boat as you....Im a bard soon to be 20 and im not sure what path i want to take..Does the lifetap regen the same amount of HP the troub's HP regen does? (in a certain time frame?)Charm and mez seem like skills i would REALLY like to use, but i like the malee oriented buffs the dirges get (i like buffs that improve my output also)Can fear be used the same as Mez?  Im pretty sure non-encounter mobs dont ARGO if something gets fear into them no??<hr></blockquote><p>I see a lot of dirges complain about fear putting mobs into walls, "cannot see target" etc and effectively saying it'd be nice if pathing worked but it's iffy as it stands.  I'd imagine that the combination of dps and healing obtained from the lifetap is similar to what a troub tends to get from the regen song, though I haven't crunched any numbers on it.  Charm is a very handy ability if used properly, and will cause you many, many unnecessary deaths if not.</p><p>As to percussion versus Reflection, while I'd imagine Percussion is more useful in a solo scenario and I know it's more generally useful in raids (since Reflection is generally completely worthless), I do have one thing to say...</p><p>If you have it, try it on Goliathan before you dismiss its potential out of hand.  It's as effective as Percussion in that fight (any fight where auto-attacks land for non-physical damage) and can be moreso as the aggro accrues to the tank when a reflection strikes.  I've seen it proc on Static Shocks and some other casts in Gates too, but I'm not sure how effective it really was; just sort of experimenting <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Percussion does seem much more generally useful though.</p>

[Rapinis]

Is it worth making a Troub if the only spells i want are the charm/mez for some control??   all the other spells id rather have from the dirge...Is it worth it or should i just roll a dirge and sacrafice the charm/mez (again considering these are the only spells i want from the troub class)<div></div>

[Jehannum]

<div>If those are literally the <strong>only</strong> troub abilities you're interested in having, you're probably better off going with a Dirge and hoping for something like them in future.  Just make sure you're not picking a dirge because you want a DPS class; we're neither one of us that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Kraks_Aforty]

<div>heh, I out DPS all the monks and bruisers on my server by a good bit.  I'd say we're a pretty decent DPS class.</div>

[Bartimaeus]

<div>Percussion of stone>Requiem of Reflection for sure. . but Precision of the Maestro>Cacophony of Blades (especially with the new proc changes)</div><div> </div><div>Troubs are more of a spellcaster bard, dirges are more melee. Other than that the fun points are stifles, stuns, mezzes. HP Regen is not really a big thing (I never use it really) but I dont think the lifetaps are super fantastic for dirges either (dont quote me on that)</div>