Agi vs intell

[jirik]

<DIV> <DIV>Anyone have a good idea where the lost of power pool from dropping agility to increase intelligence out weighs the damage gain.</DIV> <DIV>It seems kind of silly that to boost of main damage stat (post LU13) we have to sacrafice our main power stat.  Guess it's too much to ask for items with agi and int both.  At 270 intell and 200 agi I find myself oop after 3 solo mobs and Bia's running.</DIV></DIV>

[Myrddhinn]

<P>Bards (Troubadours and Dirges) are undoubtly the most adaptable versatile eq2 class.</P> <P>In a raid main group, i am in "contact" mode, hasting, alin's and aria's, with approx 240 agi, 220 int, using mainly vanadium with my cobalt chainmail and imbued longbow with dual wield.</P> <P>In a mage raid groupe, i am in "spell" mode, swan, aria's, daeli's, with approx 200 agi, 270 int (before mages buffs, oh, and this is going to be nerfed in LU 13b btw, mages' buffs won't stack), using pearls with non-imbued ironwood longbow (+13 int).</P> <P>In solo mode, i mix this two extremes to get a balance between the opposition and the rythm i want to maintain.</P> <P>I do agree with you and sadly observe that we have :</P> <P>- no specific item (except some Fabled and the Belt of the Claw) with both Int and Agi,</P> <P>- probably the uppest cost to equip themselves in order to be efficient in each and every situation we may face...</P> <P>But our image is at this cost. </P>

[jirik]

That's my basic set up also (although have not made a full Vanadium set of jewlery just str and agi rings).  Was hoping someone had found a good alternative to switching around.

[Aegol]

<P>At level 55 for me 1 AGI gives me 3.1 power and 1 INT about 1.1 power. Also, 1 INT allows me to do a little bit of extra damage (0.4 for Eli's Thundering Chorus and 0.6 for Flawless Shrill, both at adept I quality). 1 AGI gives me about 0.05% avoidance. You do the math to see what's best for you :smileyhappy:</P> <P>Oh and there are a few more items with both AGI and INT:</P> <P>Gloves of the Storyteller (223 Mit, 8 AGI, 5 INT, 27 health, 45 power, 306 vs Divine)<BR>Boots of Cultivation (232 Mit, 8 AGI, 5 INT, 35 health, 46 power, 265 vs Poison)</P>

[Aegol]

<DIV>Lets assume that we have 470 points to spend on AGI and INT (e.g., 200 AGI/270 INT or 240 AGI/230 INT). What would be the optimal choice to do the most damage? Assuming that 1 AGI gives 3.1 power and 1 INT 1.1 power, the amount of power we have from these two stats is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Power = 3.1 x AGI + 1.1 x INT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flawless Shrill does about 0.6 extra damage for each INT, so:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Extra Damage = 0.6 x INT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assuming we use all the power for casting Shrill and the power cost of this song is P, we can do Power/P casts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assuming the average damage of Shrill is D,  the total damage we do is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Total Damage = Power/P x (D + Extra Damage) = (3.1 x AGI + 1.1 x INT)/P x (D + 0.6 x INT)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assuming that AGI + INT = 470, we can substitute:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Total Damage = (3.1 x (470 - INT) + 1.1 x INT)/P x (D + 0.6 x INT)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The total damage is a quadratic function of INT and will have an optimum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Surprisingly, for D = 600, the optimal value for INT = 0 (AGI = 470). This can be explained by the fact that with higher AGI there is more power available to do more casts and thus more damage even though zero INT means somewhat less damage per cast.</DIV>

[pikeymoose]

<P>Although that looks right on paper, it is not the best way.  I have a full set of intel, and a full set of ajility.  Avodance over 40% is a waste at the cost of intel.  With 400ish intel the cobalt proc is 528, the exaltation master1 is 531, and the benifits of the wisdom for resists with the intel gear is sweet as well.  I was 400 ajility pre update, and now 400 intel post update.  As for power I never run out.  the intel,wis jewelery has nore power, less health.  regen is high with food, and songs.</P> <P> </P> <P>Moose</P>

[Myrddhinn]

<P>That's nice maths <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>But if the optimal value is Int = 0, it is mainly because you have just considered the total output, regardless the time factor.</P> <P>Obviously if i had an infinite time to cast an infinite number of Shrills, nor agi neither int would be a problem <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>If you try to consider DPS instead of this linear system, i am pretty sure you will find another result.</P> <p>Message Edited by Myrddhinn on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:44 AM</span>

[Boombastix]

That equation gave me a migraine but it did make me think about my agi/int choices.  Good post. <div></div>

[Aegol]

<P>Hmm, ok you have a point there :smileysurprised:</P> <P>Total Damage = Number of casts x (D + Extra Damage)</P> <P>DPS = Total Damage / (Number of casts x Cast Time) = (D + Extra Damage)/Cast Time = (D + 0.6 x INT)/Cast Time.</P> <P>DPS is linearly related to INT. The higher the INT, the more DPS.</P> <P>That is, until your power runs out. Then your DPS becomes zero.</P>

[Stillwate]

That math hurt my head, too. But I appreciate the input <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Been pondering this stuff for awhile.<div></div>

[Luk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Boombastix wrote:<BR>That equation gave me a migraine but it did make me think about my agi/int choices.  Good post.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>talk to our "boss", I'm sure Xeon can prescribe a cure <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[blueduckie]

<P>I am a bit surprised you think agi is a main stat. While power is power. I find with adept 3 power regen and manastone etc power is np. Hitting hard is what counts IMHO.  All of our skills are quick refresh. I am hitting 1600-1800 with flawless shrill on raids. 1k with eli's and 900-1k with pilfer essence but i have maxxed int 440 with ring clicky. Outside of int i think strength is the best ability. While power is nice you burn lesspower when your auto attack and melee skills hit considerably harder. I feel agi is easy to work. Have hit up to 700 dps with out any dps boosters besides myself in group. My typical raid group is. Ranger Ranger Ranger Assassin Brigand Troubador.  Precision of maestor hits for over 500 dmg like this. So does dissonant note from aria. Doing over 1k dmg per round with courlty blade etc.</P> <P>The only time aggro is a problem for me is if chain pulling in a group or raid and i keep demoralizing / opressive discant / kians up. Those 3 drain my power pretty quick if constantyl used but on a raid mob i cant burn my power fast enough on raid mobs. Xp groups tho youll do more dmg with your auto attack alone and occasional courtly blade etc than having low strength. Just my 2 cents. Maxxing Int / Str most important to me sta/agi after that. Hp is still a important stat for any class IMO id probably choose sta over agi to patch ae's easier if a big raider. Just my opinion tho.</P> <P> </P>

[TroubadorMast]

While some points are valid and really good, I tend to keep up more str and sta for anything really. Agility comes in some of that but if I have resistance gear on, I want more sta so I can do some melee damage while buffing whatever group I'm in for raid. I noticed that bards take a heavy hit of damage no matter if they match gear and resist piece of piece to any other scout class.Agi and Int are usually what most group buffs revolve around from most healers, as far as I notice anyway ;p But for bard melee dps to be worth a hoot, I try to max out my str and keep sta as high as possible to take the blows.

[pera]

<div></div>^^ I can see while soloing this methond would probably be usefully, our dps melee or spell is pretty bad, but agi and int give us our power.  My normal self buffed stats are (241-26<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />str, (265-29<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />agi, (250-345)int, and 171sta, 103 wis. depending on what i'm doing raid/group/solo sta and wis change too but cant remember the number off hand. While the str does help our auto attack and CA's str is the easyiest to get buffed, in most raid group i sit at 400 - 500 str.  Agi rarely hits over 389 in most groups and int can easily hit 418-440 depending on make up.   Sta is definetly importants, but jousting is normaly a much more effective way to avoid ae damage then incearsing your sta.  The differance bettwen 150 sta and 250 isnt going to help too much when you get hit by a 4k ae stun then another 3k ae dmg, ~600hp isnt going to help too much here. A good balance between str+agi+int is a really good way to go, all of our abilites benfit form agi(power), our melee hits benfit from str and casting abilites benfit from int.  boosting these three is normaly a great way to go.  We dont really have any good ranged spell abilites other than shrill and essance so pure int is probably a bad was to go too. Rarely should you be taking damage in a raid group unless things fall apart, bad jousting, or really large ae damage.  so i would say, other than soloing, can be traded out sta for str,agi,int or even wis for resists. <div></div><p>Message Edited by perano on <span class=date_text>12-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:59 PM</span>

[Warond]

Just keep it even...I've been using 3 pearl and 3 vanadium jewelery pieces, imbued rings with stamina and agility. They both give me power, but I think of int = more dmg and agi = more avoidance. <div></div>

[TroubadorMast]

<DIV>perano, you suck! :smileytongue: I sit with the mages most of the time and make them the best they can muster, but I never get above 320str  :smileysad: Usually me and mages, and maybe a healer once in a while. /jealous</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I also don't have the best str gear either. I have multiple sets of gear, but full str has always sapped my agi and sta. Other than that, it's hard for me to sit in melee range without getting owned. For some reason or another, I tend to take a lot of damage if I'm inside aoe range. Other scouts in raid don't take as hard a hit as I though. Maybe having healer buffs would help a ton but even that I take a heafty hit. Any tips on wat you  might do different to prevent dying often when you want to shred a mob? I have to do it intermitently, in and out, for a few moments then back off till I notice everyone else get nailed with the aoe.</DIV>